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Old 12th September 2011, 06:33 AM   #161
sheeplesnshills
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
It is indeed a good time for Truthers these days. It's like a comedy listening to your pathetic rebuttals. The Readers must be having a hoot..
You haven't shown anything to rebutt. Just made some vague claim about guns and concrete which I have already debunked.

Complete your claim (in a new thread, preferably) cite your sources and then you might be getting somewhere.......
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:34 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
It is indeed a good time for Truthers these days. It's like a comedy listening to your pathetic rebuttals. The Readers must be having a hoot..
Rebuttals? I'm just completely bewildered by your nonsense (which, being nonsense is incapable of rebuttal) and I think The Readers feel the same way.
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:34 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
If concrete melted then so did the steel in the floors because the components of concrete like stone and so on become molten at a temperature above that of steel. About 2,600 degrees centigrade. (nanothermite type temperatures)
Stop lying, bill. Thermite is limited by the boiling point of Al to less than 2519ļC, and the same is true of nanothermite. Concrete doesn't melt in the normal sense, because it's an aggregate, not a single material. Concrete will fall apart way below that temperature as the heat converts the fully hydrated Portland cement binder to its anhydrous form, and could possibly be re-set into concrete by mixing with water in the same way it was set in the first place. And, like all the liars in the truth movement, you know next to nothing about the subject, but think you can make up reality to suit your unfounded beliefs.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:37 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
What do you think Readers ? Is he believable ? No ? I thought not.

Oh I see, you were talking about WTC7.....mea culpa.

Well that leaves fuel............they had no fixed time for the WTC7 to fall and helicopters cannot stay up forever.

and ATC may also have told them to stay down.
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:42 AM   #165
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Why do these truthers rely on the support of these mysterious "readers", when we know from experience that the vast majority of lurkers think truthers are nuts?
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:47 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Stop lying, bill. Thermite is limited by the boiling point of Al to less than 2519ļC, and the same is true of nanothermite. Concrete doesn't melt in the normal sense, because it's an aggregate, not a single material. Concrete will fall apart way below that temperature as the heat converts the fully hydrated Portland cement binder to its anhydrous form, and could possibly be re-set into concrete by mixing with water in the same way it was set in the first place. And, like all the liars in the truth movement, you know next to nothing about the subject, but think you can make up reality to suit your unfounded beliefs.

Dave
Time for you to go back to school for a refresher Dave.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6&postcount=32 hyperlink
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:48 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Why do these truthers rely on the support of these mysterious "readers", when we know from experience that the vast majority of lurkers think truthers are nuts?
The Lurkers support me in e-mail
They all think I'm great don't you know.
You posters just don't understand me
But soon you will reap what you sow.

Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

The lurkers support me in e-mail
"So why don't they post?" you all cry
They're scared of your hostile intentions
They just can't be as brave as I.

Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

One day I'll round up all my lurkers
We'll have a newsgroup of our own
Without all this flak from you morons
My lurkers will post round my throne.
Lurkers, lurkers, lurkers support me, you'll see, you'll see
Off in e-mail the lurkers support me, you'll see.

- Jo Walton
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:50 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Time for you to go back to school for a refresher Dave.
Just a suggestion, bill, but have you considered reading posts before you reply to them?

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:52 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by sheeplesnshills View Post
Oh I see, you were talking about WTC7.....mea culpa.

Well that leaves fuel............they had no fixed time for the WTC7 to fall and helicopters cannot stay up forever.

and ATC may also have told them to stay down.
And just 20 minutes or so before WTC7 went down. Damn they must have been pissed off to miss the third best footage of the century. lol I think they would have made sure they had enough fuel to catch the collapse which apparently was not unextected.. Jonathon LKay siad there was more than one chopper anyway.
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:54 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Just a suggestion, bill, but have you considered reading posts before you reply to them?

Dave
The pictures tell a thousand words Dave. Any comment on them by the way ? We could all do with a laugh.
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:55 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Time for you to go back to school for a refresher Dave.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6&postcount=32 hyperlink
so you are claiming 6 wtc was brought down with therm*te? Because that's where the customs house was
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:57 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
And just 20 minutes or so before WTC7 went down. Damn they must have been pissed off to miss the third best footage of the century. lol I think they would have made sure they had enough fuel to catch the collapse which apparently was not unextected.. Jonathon LKay siad there was more than one chopper anyway.
Who was flying these helicopters? Does he have any proof of his time frame?
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Old 12th September 2011, 06:58 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
The pictures tell a thousand words Dave.
Which, if you had the intelligence to understand them, don't contradict any of the words I said.

Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Any comment on them by the way ? We could all do with a laugh.
We're already having one, thanks.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:01 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
so you are claiming 6 wtc was brought down with therm*te? Because that's where the customs house was
I don't mind. I'm happy to have proven temperatures more than enough to liquify steel anywhere in the doomed WTC complex on 9/11.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:04 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I don't mind. I'm happy to have proven temperatures more than enough to liquify steel anywhere in the doomed WTC complex on 9/11.
then you need to produce the formerly molten steel. Produce it or fail.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:06 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Who was flying these helicopters? Does he have any proof of his time frame?
Who knows ? Probably government technical bureaus, NYPD, NYFD , News..
I'm not sure what the pilots had for breakfast that morning either.

You guys are done.. It's getting to be so easy now its hardly any fun anymore.

PS.You'd have to ask Jonathon Kay whether he was lying or not about the time frame. That might be difficult for you seeing that he's one of your own main mouthpieces.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:08 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Who knows ? Probably government technical bureaus, NYPD, NYFD , News..
I'm not sure what the pilots had for breakfast that morning either.

You guys are done.. It's getting to be so easy now its hardly any fun anymore.
So you believe they were there with no proof?

It must be fun to live in your world, if you want something to be true you just, say it twice, click your heals and it's done.

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Old 12th September 2011, 07:08 AM   #178
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Thanks Dave,

Good job in keeping it straightforward. From a pure debating point of view I would have to agree with Empress that it was a tie (in that an uninformed listener would not be convinced fully by one side or another). Presentations on both sides were well done. And while the bias of the reporters was obvious, they did not use their bias to treat the other side disrespectfully. Thanks also Empress for posting the link, since I had to miss it last night.

I disagree that Dave was too conciliatory... he knew he was in a setting where withering contempt or attacks would have been met with strong disapproval. Even if you don't respect Gage or Harritt, it is the audience you must treat with respect in a setting like this, so I thought his tone was just right.

Bill, your "conclusive" Chandler video fails on many fronts. Having talked personally with NIST people for over four hours, I KNOW that even though Shyam Sunder talked and wrote only about the noise issue, they also told me "We followed the evidence," and there was no evidence of bombs. They specifically told me: no evidence of detonator wires. No evidence of radio receivers. No evidence of anything that would point them towards bombs. The absence of these things wasn't even worth reporting. They reported what they found, not what they didn't find! They didn't say this, but I would guess that their model of an explosion was a quick response to the flood of inquiries they got about bombs, but they never had any evidence of bombs at all. Paddington's testimony contradicts his own testimony from an earlier time, as my Building 7 eyewitnesses YouTube shows. There were sounds and explosives, but none big enough to bring down a large building. Thermitics burn to slowly to create precise demolition. I could go on and on... oh, I already have. If I were Shyam Sunder I would not worry about getting arrested.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:14 AM   #179
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CORRECTION: on above post, there were sounds and explosions not explosives. Sorry.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:18 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
CORRECTION: on above post, there were sounds and explosions not explosives. Sorry.
Very freudian Chris you will admit.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:21 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
So you believe they were there with no proof?

It must be fun to live in your world, if you want something to be true you just, say it twice, click your heals and it's done.

I want a new and completely independent well funded investigation with power to subpoena any American citizen. 'Click,click,click'......it's not working DGM I'm afraid.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:27 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I want a new and completely independent well funded investigation with power to subpoena any American citizen. 'Click,click,click' Not working DGM I'm afraid.
That's because you don't really want it. You know you ("truth leaders") would have to answer too many questions.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:32 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
That's because you don't really want it. You know you ("truth leaders") would have to answer too many questions.
We'll take that chance. Bring it on..
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:33 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Very freudian Chris you will admit.
Oh...I must have missed the sexual reference...
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:34 AM   #185
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I also think you'll never get that change for your day in court, bill, but for different reasons than you think. You see, the reason why you'll never get your investigation is you don't have enough real evidence to challenge the results of the first one, which WAS a well-funded investigation, and rational people don't want to waste their tax dollars on another investigation to tell us what we already know: 19 Islamic extremists hijacked 4 planes, and crashed 2 into WTC1 and 2, one into the Pentagon, and one into a field in Pennsylvania. Total waste of time.

I understand you think you have evidence to support a new investigation and believe the fact you will never get it is due to some suppression or cover up, but that is irrelevant; the fact remains that you folks have NOTHING.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:44 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
It must be fun to live in your world, if you want something to be true you just, say it twice, click your heals and it's done.
(emphasis added)


Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I want a new and completely independent well funded investigation with power to subpoena any American citizen. 'Click,click,click'......it's not working DGM I'm afraid.

Here is evidence that even in a magical world where anything desired could be obtained by a magic spell so simple that it can be described step by step in six words, some people would starve.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:46 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
And just 20 minutes or so before WTC7 went down. Damn they must have been pissed off to miss the third best footage of the century. lol I think they would have made sure they had enough fuel to catch the collapse which apparently was not unextected.. Jonathon LKay siad there was more than one chopper anyway.

I'm sure they were pissed off.....a lot of people were that day to put it mildly. Anyway compared to the WTC towers, WTC7 was and remains a minor sideshow.

The exact moment was unknown so unless a camera just happened to be pointing at it at the right moment.........It stood for 7 hours.

Perhaps there was another helicopter but as I said the WTC7 was a minor sideshow by that time so the chances of them having a Camera on it at that moment were not high.
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:59 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
The pictures tell a thousand words Dave. Any comment on them by the way ? We could all do with a laugh.

Bill. perhaps you can tell us who wrote those captions? A museum curator with a major in Eng. Literature or a Engineer/Scientist. Since we know that they are Likely incorrect....I'm guessing it wasn't an engineer or scientist.

Believing that's melted concrete is the same as "knowing" molten metal is molten steel just by looking at it.
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Old 12th September 2011, 03:46 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
There are a few pistols from the WTC in a police museum somewhere in New York. They are encased in formerly liquid concrete.
Bill - It was never "melted concrete".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhdBxEe_6M

Those fragments of guns and things are "encased" in a crust of corrosion and crud that forms when you have something buried in hot debris and then get it wet. The heat and the alkalinity from the concrete speeds up corrosion and the wet dust bakes into something resembling West Texas dirt. If they had not removed these artifacts, they would have corroded into rust stains.

The large mass of guns and concrete is formed the same way ... dust and fine debris fills gaps between the guns, fire fighting gets them wet and everything corrodes into a mass.

This, BTW, is testable if you have some steel objects and some pulverized concrete. Put the guns in, wet it down, and then cook it for a few days.
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Old 12th September 2011, 04:09 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by TsuDhoNimh View Post
Bill - It was never "melted concrete".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhdBxEe_6M

Those fragments of guns and things are "encased" in a crust of corrosion and crud that forms when you have something buried in hot debris and then get it wet. The heat and the alkalinity from the concrete speeds up corrosion and the wet dust bakes into something resembling West Texas dirt. If they had not removed these artifacts, they would have corroded into rust stains.

The large mass of guns and concrete is formed the same way ... dust and fine debris fills gaps between the guns, fire fighting gets them wet and everything corrodes into a mass.

This, BTW, is testable if you have some steel objects and some pulverized concrete. Put the guns in, wet it down, and then cook it for a few days.
Great Video. Thanks
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Old 12th September 2011, 07:48 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I disagree that Dave was too conciliatory... he knew he was in a setting where withering contempt or attacks would have been met with strong disapproval. Even if you don't respect Gage or Harritt, it is the audience you must treat with respect in a setting like this, so I thought his tone was just right.

Actually I didn't mean Dave, who I think was good and stuck to the point, I meant the guy in the first hour. The one who wasn't Jonathon Kay.
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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