ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags james millette , kevin ryan , Niels Harrit , paint chips , richard gage , steven jones , wtc

Reply
Old 1st March 2012, 06:53 PM   #1
alienentity
Illuminator
 
alienentity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,325
Truther responses to Millette WTC Dust paper

Predictably, 9/11 Truthers are variously avoiding the results of Dr Millette's study by attacking him, Chris Mohr and Oystein; by misrepresenting what the paper says; by pretending that it doesn't make any difference to the 'Official Story' etc....

Once again confirming that they aren't really interested in a real investigation, if the results aren't to their liking.

Here's one exchange on AboveTopSecret
Some examples:
Quote:
'None of this proves the collapses were from plane impacts and fire. It doesn't address the physics of sagging trusses for example...All we have to do is prove that fire and plane impacts could not have caused it, and we have done that already. '
Quote:
The fact that they believe there to be an epoxy attached to the iron oxide proves that the iron oxide was "painted on" in strategic locations to weaken elevator and core structure.
Quote:
Are they serious? The closest sample was 0.2 miles away from ground zero and taken 17 days later. after 6 days of rain and 1 day of snow.

totally useless IMO
And the character assassination and misinformation on 911blogger:

Quote:
Milette is being paid $1000 to debunk the nanothermite paper by German JREFer "Oystein". He will complete the assignment as requested and paid for.
Quote:
Don't be fooled by Chris Mohr's fake civility and Millette's supposed impartiality.
Quote:
Oystein has been coming around the911forum and has made his intentions and methods quite clear. Facts be damned.
And handwaving and blanket denials of the 'don't confuse me with the facts' ilk..
Quote:
The findings as published in the Active Thermitic Materials paper are not commensurate with any sort of 'paint'. The only thing which would explain the findings without nano-thermite would be scientific fraud."
And misunderstandings of science..
Quote:
the formation of metallic-iron-rich spheres upon ignition of the red material -- which demonstrates very high temperatures and that a thermitic reaction has occurred.
Quote:
He promises to do lab tests to determine what they are, but if he tries to claim they're paint, he's lying. These chips are not paint.
One standout is in one of the posts by Dr Steven Jones, who is obviously confused about what metric 'proves' thermitic behavior..
Quote:
Dr. Farrer has ignited a paint sample in a DSC and the paint sample showed a much broader thermal spike, indicating a relatively slow heat-release (compared to the red/gray chips)
To which I would add that what Jones posits is irrelevant to the question of whether the chips are thermitic - if there is no elemental aluminum then what is the supposed reaction??? It's chemistry, not magic.
__________________
Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!'
000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.'
mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'

Last edited by alienentity; 1st March 2012 at 07:35 PM.
alienentity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2012, 07:08 PM   #2
fourtoe
Graduate Poster
 
fourtoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,029
Quote:
Don't be fooled by Chris Mohr's fake civility and Millette's supposed impartiality.

Chris Mohr is a SAINT! If anything he's too nice with the TM.
__________________
***My old username used to be knife fight colobus, but it was totally too long.***
-Here's my YouTube Channel where I either debate crazies (Kirk Cameron, Westboro Baptist Church, Truthers etc.) or play Zelda
-I sooo have a blog.
-The thread for discussing/reviewing and posting any 911 related debates one can find!
fourtoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2012, 07:17 PM   #3
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,801
Holy Thermite, if they found some dust with jet fuel on it, the thermal would be tens times the heat energy of thermite;
Then 911 truth nuts, Jones and Dolts, would claim a NWO compound 10 times the heat energy of thermite.

911 truth = failure
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2012, 07:27 PM   #4
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,570
Quote:
Milette is being paid $1000 to debunk the nanothermite paper by German JREFer "Oystein". He will complete the assignment as requested and paid for
Oystein, where'd you get a 1000 bucks??? And what did Chris do with all our money?//
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st March 2012, 07:32 PM   #5
fourtoe
Graduate Poster
 
fourtoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Oystein, where'd you get a 1000 bucks??? And what did Chris do with all our money?//
How much did it cost Jones and Harrit to get their work published? I wonder if the fact that there is a difference between funding research that will then be submitted to peer-review for publication and doing crappy research and then paying to have it published will be lost on Truthers.

Le sigh.
__________________
***My old username used to be knife fight colobus, but it was totally too long.***
-Here's my YouTube Channel where I either debate crazies (Kirk Cameron, Westboro Baptist Church, Truthers etc.) or play Zelda
-I sooo have a blog.
-The thread for discussing/reviewing and posting any 911 related debates one can find!
fourtoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 12:30 AM   #6
cjnewson88
Graduate Poster
 
cjnewson88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,682
Well we all knew it was going to happen.

The 9/11 Truth Movement is not interested in truth, and never have been. This is but yet just another example of the 9/11 Truther equivalent of a 8 year old holding his hands over his ears and yelling 'nah nah nah nah I can't hear you! nah nah nah'.

Thank god this movement isn't growing.
__________________
Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed.
Over 140 pieces of evidence showing American 77 hit the Pentagon http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/
http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88
cjnewson88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 02:28 AM   #7
MrSkunkwork100
Scholar
 
MrSkunkwork100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 67
Well, just as I asked on Chris Mohr's thread: WHY haven't the scholarly members of the truth movement done this themselvesm before? Supposedly, they want a "new and impartial investigation into the events of 911", they got a phantom kangaroo version of it with their own members. Considering the amount of money that Richard Gage, Dr. David Ray Griffin, and the other scholars of 911 truth make: $1,000 should be easy to come up with and the means by which Oystein and Chris Mohr went about this (I didn't realize reading Mohr's thread, that Oystein participated) could have been accomplished by them long-ago.

It's perfectly clear to me that the "truth movement" is not interested in truth at all. There is nothing that they have done to further their cause or to give validity to it. This totally and completely shuts down ALL of their claims regarding the collapses of the buildings.

Also, the blatant disregard for the facts resulting from this investigation on other forums is shocking. The whole point of the investigation, was NOT to prove that plane impacts, sagging floor trusses, or fire were the cause: it was specifically to directly answer the claims that nano-thermite was involved. The results of the study CLEARLY prove that there was no "thermite/nano-thermite demolition"; but primer paint and pigmentation, mostly of an expoxy-based resin and kaolin clay. Precisely what we've ALL been saying this whole time.
MrSkunkwork100 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 02:32 AM   #8
MrSkunkwork100
Scholar
 
MrSkunkwork100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by alienentity View Post

"To which I would add that what Jones posits is irrelevant to the question of whether the chips are thermitic - if there is no elemental aluminum then what is the supposed reaction??? It's chemistry, not magic."


alienentity:


Exactly! What Jones and Harrit et al acheived, was combustion; it was NOT a reaction. The dishonesty amongst the truth camp is outlandish!
MrSkunkwork100 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 02:40 AM   #9
MrSkunkwork100
Scholar
 
MrSkunkwork100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 67
'None of this proves the collapses were from plane impacts and fire. It doesn't address the physics of sagging trusses for example...All we have to do is prove that fire and plane impacts could not have caused it, and we have done that already."

I know I keep hounding away at it, but this statement is so full of ignorance it just jumps off the page.

It doesn't HAVE to explain sagging floor trusses and bowing perimeter columns. It is merely an unbiased analysis of the particles that the truth movement has been sounding off about for years!


Also, what I see in that other comment by Steven Jones is simply an attempt to once again distort true, forensic, analytical science. This is what that movement is known for.

Last edited by MrSkunkwork100; 2nd March 2012 at 03:00 AM.
MrSkunkwork100 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 04:05 AM   #10
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Truthers don't understand the science or the data that Millette has produced nor do they want to. His data is identical to that of Harrit et al, but he goes further in the use of material characterisation techniques such as PLM, FTIR and TEM-SAED EDS.

The fact that none of these techniques show elemental Al is present, but show that kaolin is present is absolutely damning for the Harrit et al paper and truthers. I've been saying it from the start just a few days after the Bentham rubbish was published that kaolin is present. This confirms it. This FTIR spectra kills thermite dead.



The problem is most people won't know what they are looking at or realise that modern FTIR uses a sample database to compare the spectra of the sample being analysed with hundreds of spectra from known materials.

So in the end truthers have got nothing so they will totally ignore the findings and use all of their usual tricks to cloud the waters.

I've always believed that if a country uses the words "democratic" and "peoples" in the title then you can bet that country is not a democracy. Same with "truthers", they don't want the truth, yet call themselves the opposite of what they want.

Evidence is their kryptonite.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 04:53 AM   #11
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 15,570
Maybe they can get some money from Senator Gravel to fund their own rebuttal? He should have more than a grand stashed somewhere...


ETA: Farrakhan can supply some lab techs...
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)

Last edited by LSSBB; 2nd March 2012 at 04:56 AM.
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 01:54 PM   #12
phunk
Illuminator
 
phunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,592
Quote:
Are they serious? The closest sample was 0.2 miles away from ground zero and taken 17 days later. after 6 days of rain and 1 day of snow.
Yeah, NYC gets a lot of snow in September...
phunk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 02:03 PM   #13
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,305
Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Yeah, NYC gets a lot of snow in September...
Who said this? I'm fairly sure it has not snowed in NYC in September since the ice age.

__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

Last edited by DGM; 2nd March 2012 at 03:05 PM.
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 02:26 PM   #14
phunk
Illuminator
 
phunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,592
Was one of the quotes from ATS in the OP.
phunk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 02:31 PM   #15
nicepants
Graduate Poster
 
nicepants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,722
Do we know if Gage has responded to these findings yet? That should make for an interesting read...or listen.
__________________
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen -Einstein
nicepants is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 03:01 PM   #16
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,305
Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Was one of the quotes from ATS in the OP.
What a moron. He quotes as proof historical data for Weeks of March 11, 2001 through March 31, 2001. At least he got the year right.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/...lyHistory.html

__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41

Last edited by DGM; 2nd March 2012 at 03:10 PM.
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 03:28 PM   #17
alienentity
Illuminator
 
alienentity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,325
Originally Posted by DGM View Post
What a moron. He quotes as proof historical data for Weeks of March 11, 2001 through March 31, 2001. At least he got the year right.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/...lyHistory.html

LOL, at least he got the city right...
__________________
Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!'
000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.'
mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'
alienentity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 03:38 PM   #18
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
I'm shocked at this example of shoddy work in a body of otherwise stellar truther research...
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 03:59 PM   #19
SpitfireIX
Illuminator
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
Posts: 3,755
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
I'm shocked at this example of shoddy work in a body of otherwise stellar truther research...

Oh, shut up!
__________________
Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 04:03 PM   #20
cjnewson88
Graduate Poster
 
cjnewson88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,682
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
I'm shocked at this example of shoddy work in a body of otherwise stellar truther research...
__________________
Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed.
Over 140 pieces of evidence showing American 77 hit the Pentagon http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/
http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88
cjnewson88 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 04:43 PM   #21
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 4,043
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
I'm shocked at this example of shoddy work in a body of otherwise stellar truther research...
Another instance of this board coming back to haunt me. I was mid-conference call when I read this, and guffawed. I was slick though, told them I coughed on ice from my water. Well done.
__________________
"All acts performed in the world begin in the imagination."--Barbara Grizzuti Harrison

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 04:51 PM   #22
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,939
I'm going to make a prediction here:

Some time from now, a twoofer - either a new member or an existing one - will make the assertion that the Millette paper has been "thouroughly debunked" or "proven to be fraudulent".

Twoofers don't care about the truth.
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd March 2012, 05:54 PM   #23
Oz1976
Muse
 
Oz1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 720
Odd that none of our resident CDers/Therm*ters have ventured into here to comment...or is it?
Oz1976 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 12:34 PM   #24
Ivan Kminek
Muse
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Some new reactions to Jim Millette study, some quite interesting and positive
http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/2...-wtc-dust.html

Last edited by Ivan Kminek; 5th March 2012 at 12:50 PM.
Ivan Kminek is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 12:51 PM   #25
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
What seems to be more significant is the lack of response.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 01:10 PM   #26
fourtoe
Graduate Poster
 
fourtoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
What seems to be more significant is the lack of response.
To be fair, it did just come out. Your average Truther is still talking about the hijackers still being alive...we gotta give 'em more time.
__________________
***My old username used to be knife fight colobus, but it was totally too long.***
-Here's my YouTube Channel where I either debate crazies (Kirk Cameron, Westboro Baptist Church, Truthers etc.) or play Zelda
-I sooo have a blog.
-The thread for discussing/reviewing and posting any 911 related debates one can find!
fourtoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 01:43 PM   #27
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,305
Originally Posted by fourtoe View Post
To be fair, it did just come out. Your average Truther is still talking about the hijackers still being alive...we gotta give 'em more time.
I think most are waiting for Harrit, Jones and the rest of them to tell them what to say. This flew so far over their heads they never even saw it,
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 02:07 PM   #28
fourtoe
Graduate Poster
 
fourtoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I think most are waiting for Harrit, Jones and the rest of them to tell them what to say. This flew so far over their heads they never even saw it,
Aren't they either dismissing it outright or doing what Kevin Ryan is doing and just try and discredit Millette and Mohr?
__________________
***My old username used to be knife fight colobus, but it was totally too long.***
-Here's my YouTube Channel where I either debate crazies (Kirk Cameron, Westboro Baptist Church, Truthers etc.) or play Zelda
-I sooo have a blog.
-The thread for discussing/reviewing and posting any 911 related debates one can find!
fourtoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 02:07 PM   #29
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 21,109
Originally Posted by Oz1976 View Post
Odd that none of our resident CDers/Therm*ters have ventured into here to comment...or is it?
One of 'em is still waiting on his returnability.....
__________________
you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 02:17 PM   #30
sheeplesnshills
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,706
Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
What seems to be more significant is the lack of response.
They are asking their pastors (Jones, Gage and Griffin etc) what they should think.
sheeplesnshills is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 02:44 PM   #31
Kent1
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,179
A few comments here also.

http://911blogger.com/news/2012-02-1...james-millette

Jones, and others noticeably absent.

Nice to see some truthers starting to ask more tough questions to their leaders.

How much more do they need to realize what fools Jones, Harrit, Gage, Griffin are.

Last edited by Kent1; 5th March 2012 at 02:46 PM.
Kent1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 03:33 PM   #32
chrismohr
Master Poster
 
chrismohr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,080
All very interesting! As you can see, there are some 9/11 Truth activists who are supportive or at least guardedly interested. Of course, I sent the link a few days ago to Jones, Harrit, Ryan and Roberts (signatories to the 2009 Bentham paper), and Richard Gage. Too early to expect a response yet.
__________________
20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ
Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall
and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall
WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com
chrismohr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 03:53 PM   #33
alienentity
Illuminator
 
alienentity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,325
Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
All very interesting! As you can see, there are some 9/11 Truth activists who are supportive or at least guardedly interested. Of course, I sent the link a few days ago to Jones, Harrit, Ryan and Roberts (signatories to the 2009 Bentham paper), and Richard Gage. Too early to expect a response yet.
Did any of them explain why they wouldn't let Dr Millette test their dust or chip samples? I mean, you'd think they'd love independent confirmation of their findings.

It almost seems like they're not confident in their own analysis, but maybe I'm reading into it...
__________________
Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!'
000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.'
mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'
alienentity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 03:56 PM   #34
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 17,684
Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Too early to expect a response yet.
Seriously? What the **** else does Gage have to do all day?
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 04:12 PM   #35
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,139
Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
All very interesting! As you can see, there are some 9/11 Truth activists who are supportive or at least guardedly interested. Of course, I sent the link a few days ago to Jones, Harrit, Ryan and Roberts (signatories to the 2009 Bentham paper), and Richard Gage. Too early to expect a response yet.
Jones already found the time to spew nonsense at 911blogger:
Originally Posted by SE Jones
The LLNL tests on known nano-thermite referred to in the Harrit

et al. paper were conducted in air -- according to an interview by Dr. Farrer with one of the LLNL researchers listed on that paper.

The key issue you correctly identify is important to re-emphasize: the formation of metallic-iron-rich spheres upon ignition of the red material -- which demonstrates very high temperatures and that a thermitic reaction has occurred.
That's a lie.
Originally Posted by SE Jones
Yes, Mark Basile has done excellent work so far on the red-gray

chips; please note that his research is continuing (I understand).

"Furthermore, paint does not ignite when subjected to a differential scanning calorimeter (DSC) like these chips do, demonstrating energetic properties" -- actually, paint samples will probably ignite in a DSC while demonstrating different properties (such as the narrowness of the thermal spike).

Dr. Farrer has ignited a paint sample in a DSC and the paint sample showed a much broader thermal spike, indicating a relatively slow heat-release (compared to the red/gray chips).
Yes, and Basile showed there is less than 5% (that includes the high possibility for 0%) thermite in the red layer, which means >98% of the energy come from organic combustion. If only Jones would understand
And Farrer forgot to tell us which paint he tested, forgot to show us the DSC trace of that paint, and forgot to tell us which chips he put in the DSC.
Originally Posted by SE Jones
For further discussion on nano-thermite,

please see my Blog from May 2011:

http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-1...regarding-ther...

My best wishes to the 9/11 truth community. FYI, my main research focus at this time remains on seeking alternative energy sources for the benefit of mankind. See (for example):

http://www.physics.byu.edu/TalkList.aspx?talkID=247
Ah - Jones tells us pre-emptively he won't put much time in defending his old nonsense cuz he's busy inventing new nonsense.
Originally Posted by SE Jones
Agreed that the OBSERVED free-fall acceleration of WTC7

is very strong evidence for questioning the official 9/11 narrative. David Chandler and I questioned NIST about their analysis in August 2008, and NIST finally provided the graph you show -- which indisputably verifies that WTC7 exhibited free-fall acceleration for over 100 feet.

Yes, with this evidence regarding WTC7 including the admission from NIST -- and numerous other evidences -- I agree that "We could have 9/11 truth without nanothermite."

At the same time, I am confident that the Harrit et al. conclusion will stand the test of time -- that the red material found in the WTC dust represents a thermitic material.
He better prepare for a surprise

Another author of ATM also replied in that thread:
Originally Posted by FM Legge
Nice, but not necessary

Wildbear, yes it would be interesting to see whether the red chips would ignite in the same way in an oxygen-free atmosphere. However, if they did not, it would prove nothing against the Active Thermitic Material hypothesis, as oxygen was present in the towers.

The important criterion regarding the DSC test is that the product is globular iron, hence previously molten. There is no way that the combustion of organic material in air can produce a temperature high enough to produce molten iron.

For those promoting "thermitic paint", the responsibility is theirs to find a sample of such material and to show that it had been applied in large scale in the towers. A theory without evidence is just a distraction.
Legge totally misrepresents the reasons why DSC is done, and certainly what he presents there is not in line with what he presented in 2009 when he co-authored ATM, with it's two Figures devoted to DSC traces and discussion thereof.
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 09:39 PM   #36
Grizzly Bear
このマスクによっ
 
Grizzly Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,769
Not terribly surprised at those responses they gave, but it ain't shocking either. I believe chrismohr went through with the lab tests with the full knowledge that people would try to downplay it whatever it took; while I can appreciate his patience with other major 9/11 truth figures I'm not personally placing bets on them agreeing either. The lab tests serve their purpose... they satisfy a curiosity and whether truthers accepts the findings or not, it shows the nano-thermite argument for what it is... a fake
__________________

Last edited by Grizzly Bear; 5th March 2012 at 09:41 PM.
Grizzly Bear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th March 2012, 11:40 PM   #37
ozeco41
Philosopher
 
ozeco41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,377
Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear View Post
...The lab tests serve their purpose... they satisfy a curiosity and whether truthers accepts the findings or not, it shows the nano-thermite argument for what it is... a fake
Correct. And a valid exercise for those who were interested. But let's not lose sight of the context.

The only reason we are discussing thermXte is because truthers have tried to claim that there was controlled demolition at WTC on 9/11. And, one subset of the claim, is that the CD used thermXte.

Both claims patently and obviously false. And the thermXte claims are near enough to irrelevant from the truther/debunker perspective. There was no CD so there was no way that thermXte could have been used in CD. Only truthers would present the argument backwards starting with thermXte. They do that because they know that they cannot support CD so thermXte is a nice sideline.

Enter the trolls who will use any sideline to keep discussion circling and not advancing.

The trolls have also taken the sideline tactic one layer further with iron rich microspheres.

And I have predicted even sillier, more remote sidelines such as "What is the colour of the left side of a micro-sphere?" (which will cause them more problems as they try to define "left side of a sphere" but such minor issues never stop determined trolls do they? )

All of it predictable as is the truther/trolls responses to the Millette study. Satisfying truther/trolls wasn't the objective anyway so their response is no loss.
ozeco41 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2012, 06:58 AM   #38
chrismohr
Master Poster
 
chrismohr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,080
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Oystein, where'd you get a 1000 bucks??? And what did Chris do with all our money?//
Wow it sure is nice here in Cabo San Lucas! Wish you were here!



Hey, why did Oystein get all the credit?
__________________
20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ
Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall
and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall
WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com
chrismohr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2012, 07:24 AM   #39
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Wow it sure is nice here in Cabo San Lucas! Wish you were here!



Hey, why did Oystein get all the credit?
Hilited it for you.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th March 2012, 07:54 AM   #40
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 13,143
Originally Posted by tsig
Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Hey, why did Oystein get all the credit?
Hilited it for you.

He carried the credit away in a beer mug?
__________________
A zřmbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:25 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.