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Tags Chris Mohr , james millette , nanothermite , Niels Harrit , richard gage , steven jones , thermite , wtc dust

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Old 28th May 2015, 08:23 PM   #1
chrismohr
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Chris Mohr's YouTube Part 23 Epilogue: WTC Dust Update; Saying Goodbye to 9/11 Truth

Why I do NOT believe thermite was used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings on 9/11. After the thermitic dust paper of 2009 by Harrit/Jones/Ryan/Farrer et al, I hired Jim Millette to analyze the WTC dust and he found NO THERMITE. This YouTube video is a detailed summary of responses to both studies: critiques by Jones of the Millette dust study, critiques of the 2009 paper, and ESPECIALLY shocking levels of opposition to the 2009 thermitic paper from 9/11 controlled demolition advocates! Then I say goodbye to the 9/11 debate; I have not found convincing scientific evidence to back up any controlled demolition theories. I'll stick around for awhile to respond to comments here, but I think it's finally time I mostly move on.
https://youtu.be/aGGJ4xzna8o
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Old 28th May 2015, 09:57 PM   #2
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Great video Chrismohr, doubt It will do much good, many good people
have debated the CD theories with logic and it never works.
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Old 28th May 2015, 10:08 PM   #3
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Nice job...
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Old 28th May 2015, 10:25 PM   #4
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Congratulations on a job well done, Chris. Your determination, patience, thoroughness, intellectual integrity, and respect for your adversaries are all most remarkable. I have always found that one bi-product of looking into claims made by conspiracists, psuedoscientists, paranormalists and mystics is that I have learned a great deal about a wide variety of subjects. The thermite debate is a great example, and I hope that you have found personal satisfaction in the effort; you deserve it. Thank you.
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Old 29th May 2015, 03:44 AM   #5
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Chris,
You have the patience of a saint. This last video was a very impressive and comprehensive examination of the NT issue showing there is no there there. Thank you for assembling the definitive guide to understand the issue.

You are correct that 9/11 raised many issues about peace and war and how our government's national security apparatus works. It's not a pretty picture and that should be the main concern... The CD false flag conspiracy stuff is a huge distraction and waste of time in the end. Those who have gotten into this have had an opportunity to learn a lot about science, structure, forensics, systems failures, and of course logic. So it hasn't been a total waste of time.

You are correct... it's well past the time to move on and work toward issues of peace and justice.

Thank you!
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Old 29th May 2015, 05:07 AM   #6
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Great job on all your body of work on this topic, Chris. Yours was always a purely technical argument devoid of emotional response and stands as a comprehensive record of the technical matters involved .
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Old 29th May 2015, 07:13 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Why I do NOT believe thermite was used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings on 9/11. After the thermitic dust paper of 2009 by Harrit/Jones/Ryan/Farrer et al, I hired Jim Millette to analyze the WTC dust and he found NO THERMITE. This YouTube video is a detailed summary of responses to both studies: critiques by Jones of the Millette dust study, critiques of the 2009 paper, and ESPECIALLY shocking levels of opposition to the 2009 thermitic paper from 9/11 controlled demolition advocates! Then I say goodbye to the 9/11 debate; I have not found convincing scientific evidence to back up any controlled demolition theories. I'll stick around for awhile to respond to comments here, but I think it's finally time I mostly move on.
https://youtu.be/aGGJ4xzna8o
Great capstone, Chris. I especially like how you ended with how efforts should be focused on peace and justice for those who let go of the CD belief.
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Old 29th May 2015, 09:00 AM   #8
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Great stuff, after following the thermite debate for the last few years it was very easy to follow. I do feel the remaining thermite truthers will either dismiss it as not being peer reviewed or that you are a shill.

It's good to see you are letting it go, you have worked hard. Enjoy what you choose to do next. I'm sure there will be muppets writing all sorts about you on their blogs, try not to let them drag you back in!

Enjoy life
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Old 29th May 2015, 12:32 PM   #9
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Have a new project in mind, Chris?
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Old 29th May 2015, 12:42 PM   #10
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JayDee, Nothing in particular in the political/social realm. I'm a composer of classical music and am writing a book called The Grand Unified Theory of Music, which explains how dividing the octave into 53 equal parts (instead of the twelve notes of a piano) makes it possible to play all of the ancient scales (hundreds of them from all over the world) in their pure original tunings, plus develop new chord progressions employing the seventh harmonic, which are not possible in 12-equal tuning. It's a meta-music theory to explain every musical system in history around the planet. I'm writing musical pieces that can jump around from ancient Chinese to Greek to Arabic to India and stay perfectly in tune (none of the ancient melodies can be played in tune on our traditional piano). The recently retired professor of music theory at San Francisco Conservatory said my work has been life-changing for him.
I'm not leaving the 9/11 world just yet, I want to be available to answer questions and respond to things people say here about this video. There is some new information in there that no one has ever known about before.
I have to be careful not to get dragged too far back in though, as Spanx warned.
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WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com

Last edited by chrismohr; 29th May 2015 at 12:43 PM. Reason: added sentence
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Old 29th May 2015, 12:48 PM   #11
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Chris:

I've never been active in the 9/11 threads because I never understood the arguments against the official story. Thank you for being patient with those to whom I could have never shown such patience.

I hope your book goes well and I look forward to you dropping in on some other subject.

Best regards.
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Old 29th May 2015, 01:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
JayDee, Nothing in particular in the political/social realm. I'm a composer of classical music and am writing a book called The Grand Unified Theory of Music, which explains how dividing the octave into 53 equal parts (instead of the twelve notes of a piano) makes it possible to play all of the ancient scales (hundreds of them from all over the world) in their pure original tunings, plus develop new chord progressions employing the seventh harmonic, which are not possible in 12-equal tuning. It's a meta-music theory to explain every musical system in history around the planet. I'm writing musical pieces that can jump around from ancient Chinese to Greek to Arabic to India and stay perfectly in tune (none of the ancient melodies can be played in tune on our traditional piano). The recently retired professor of music theory at San Francisco Conservatory said my work has been life-changing for him.
I'm not leaving the 9/11 world just yet, I want to be available to answer questions and respond to things people say here about this video. There is some new information in there that no one has ever known about before.
I have to be careful not to get dragged too far back in though, as Spanx warned.
That's cool. My brother-in-law is getting his PhD in Music Theory, he just finished up a Fullbright tour in Poland working on part of his thesis. Interesting stuff.
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Old 29th May 2015, 01:21 PM   #13
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Chris,

congratulations to getting this job done!
Today I wasn't going to spend any serious time on the 9/11 fad. Instead, I digitized Led Zeppelin's 2007 4 vynil-records best-of compilation "Mothership". While my music mixing software (Audacity) ran filters or stored MP3s, each of which took somewhere between 0:45 and 1:30 minutes, I watched your video in installments of 2 minutes or so.

Liked your approach of offering slides to stop for those interested in more info.

Well done!

I very much understand your desire to pursue new projects, especially in music. The other day I hooked up with a friend who likes to sing just for fun and asked me if I could accompany her on guitar. Another friend back from vacation today with whom I do the same. Listening to Led Zeppelin today and early Pink Floyd yesterday, I feel inspired. Tomorrow I'll song at a wedding with my gospel choir. Feels so much more fulfilling and meaningful...

A week or two ago I tried to play Stevie Wonder's "They won't go when I go" on guitar. Well, it's definitely a piano piece. The lyrics strike a chord here:
No more lying friends
wanting tragic ends
though they do pretend
they won't go when I go

All those bleeding hearts
with sorrows to impart
right here from the the start
they won't go when I go.

And I'll go where I long
to go so long
away from tears
...
Unclean minds mislead the pure
the innocent will leave for sure
for them there is a resting place
People sinning just for fun
they will never see the sun
for they can never show their faces...
I commend you for going when you are going!

Last edited by Oystein; 29th May 2015 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 29th May 2015, 02:00 PM   #14
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Hey gang, wait a second! I'm not quite through YET. I imagine it will take some back-and-forth after people digest this new video, and I'll certainly stick around to see that unfold and try to respond to comments and questions. And Ozeco41 knows I'm a 9/11 addict so I won't go cold turkey in any event. I'll drop in with occasional comments periodically. I just don't think I'll keep organizing experiments and putting out videos etc.
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WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com
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Old 29th May 2015, 02:18 PM   #15
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As a rule I don't watch videos concerning 9/11 arguments and instead prefer the individual to post their thoughts and observations, because I don't like to have to wade through a video to ascertain the main points. However, rules are meant to be broken, especially when they are from someone who has put such huge time and effort into the subject.

A quick couple of thoughts on the video if I may:

8:51 - Fig 6 from Harrit et al is shown, but without labels identifying the elements corresponding to the peaks in the EDX spectrum for the gray layer.

It's a bit of a nitpick and irrelevant tbh, however, I raise it because I encountered the same issue when selecting and copying a fig from the paper and wondered why it didn't work.

Iirc you have to use the "snapshot" tool to select the entire graphic from the PDF and then copy and paste that into a program like MS Paint to get the detail and then save for future use. Just selecting and copying the Fig won't copy the labels. I don't know why, I'm sure there is a reason, but it seems odd that a copy and paste won't select the entire graphic.

Same Fig is used at 20:10 in comparison with Millette's data.

21:41 - Quote from Farrer is very revealing. The fact that he said he could be looking at his own samples when looking at the SEM images from Millette is telling. Puts to bed the idea that Millette didn't have the "right chips".

34:00 - Adiabatic flame temperature nails it. Good point.

36:00 - Yep, Al2O3 will not evaporate and not leave a presence. It's a characteristic of the thermite reaction.

Chris - You have the patience of a saint. Your delivery is excellent and the video is well put together, but more importantly addresses many counter points.
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Old 29th May 2015, 04:03 PM   #16
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Thanks Sunstealer... Yes on the missing labels for the Figure 6. My tech skills with layout are low, and I could see that at least the Millette comparison showed a high degree of consistency.
And yes, the Farrer comments are very telling.
I must admit, I am relieved that you (and Oystein) found the video to be reasonably accurate technically. I cover a lot of ground, and while I aced physics and calculus in high school, I got a B in Chemistry!
If I have the patience of a saint, I am also pretty burned out, so after the handful of people in the world who care digest and respond to the info in this video, I will gradually fade out of the picture more or less.
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20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ
Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall
and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall
WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com

Last edited by chrismohr; 29th May 2015 at 04:19 PM. Reason: extra sentence
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Old 29th May 2015, 04:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Hey gang, wait a second! I'm not quite through YET. I imagine it will take some back-and-forth after people digest this new video, and I'll certainly stick around to see that unfold and try to respond to comments and questions. And Ozeco41 knows I'm a 9/11 addict so I won't go cold turkey in any event. I'll drop in with occasional comments periodically. I just don't think I'll keep organizing experiments and putting out videos etc.
I've been wondering how to say "Congratulations" given that you are well aware of my hard line on the futility of chasing truth nonsense down as a means of winning truther hearts.

Great to see the "line in the sand" - even at it's new location.

Oystein beat me to the pun but your multi step approach to the foundation of music strikes a chord with me. I have had a long term interest in the underlying wave mechanics and all those compromises to make nice neat whole integer fractions 3/2, 5/4, 17/16 and the rest which slip my 1941 memory somehow fit into multiples of 1.05946309436

Last edited by ozeco41; 29th May 2015 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 29th May 2015, 07:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Thanks Sunstealer... Yes on the missing labels for the Figure 6. My tech skills with layout are low, and I could see that at least the Millette comparison showed a high degree of consistency.
And yes, the Farrer comments are very telling.
I must admit, I am relieved that you (and Oystein) found the video to be reasonably accurate technically. I cover a lot of ground, and while I aced physics and calculus in high school, I got a B in Chemistry!
If I have the patience of a saint, I am also pretty burned out, so after the handful of people in the world who care digest and respond to the info in this video, I will gradually fade out of the picture more or less.
Thats not possible Chrismohr, the truth movement has become the hotel
California, for truther and debunker alike, we can check in but we can not
Check out, and we can never slay the beast, it just springs back to life in a new
Lie. It's hopeless, just enjoy the whine, of desperation until the next new lie.
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Old 29th May 2015, 09:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
JayDee, Nothing in particular in the political/social realm. I'm a composer of classical music and am writing a book called The Grand Unified Theory of Music, which explains how dividing the octave into 53 equal parts (instead of the twelve notes of a piano) makes it possible to play all of the ancient scales (hundreds of them from all over the world) in their pure original tunings, plus develop new chord progressions employing the seventh harmonic, which are not possible in 12-equal tuning. It's a meta-music theory to explain every musical system in history around the planet. I'm writing musical pieces that can jump around from ancient Chinese to Greek to Arabic to India and stay perfectly in tune (none of the ancient melodies can be played in tune on our traditional piano). The recently retired professor of music theory at San Francisco Conservatory said my work has been life-changing for him.
I'm not leaving the 9/11 world just yet, I want to be available to answer questions and respond to things people say here about this video. There is some new information in there that no one has ever known about before.
I have to be careful not to get dragged too far back in though, as Spanx warned.
While I could barely follow what you are talking about, it sounds like a book that my wife's cousin and her husband would like. She is a flautist and he percussionist with an orchestra. (And of course they both have music degrees and play multiple other instruments )
My own musical talent is limited to being able to accurately mimic every rock singer there is. As long as the satellite radio in my truck is turned to high volume that is. Oddly at low radio volume my sole musical talent evaporates.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 29th May 2015 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 30th May 2015, 01:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
...writing a book called The Grand Unified Theory of Music, which explains how dividing the octave into 53 equal parts (instead of the twelve notes of a piano) makes it possible to play all of the ancient scales (hundreds of them from all over the world) in their pure original tunings, plus develop new chord progressions employing the seventh harmonic, which are not possible in 12-equal tuning. It's a meta-music theory to explain every musical system in history around the planet. I'm writing musical pieces that can jump around from ancient Chinese to Greek to Arabic to India and stay perfectly in tune (none of the ancient melodies can be played in tune on our traditional piano). The recently retired professor of music theory at San Francisco Conservatory said my work has been life-changing for him. ...
If you don't support that stuff with good enough evidence, expect us to follow you through the interwebz and give you a hard debunking time! Perhaps we'll even collect money to have your theories tested by an independent acustic lab!
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Old 30th May 2015, 02:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
....writing a book called The Grand Unified Theory of Music, which explains how dividing the octave into 53 equal parts (instead of the twelve notes of a piano) makes it possible to play all of the ancient scales (hundreds of them from all over the world) in their pure original tunings, plus develop new chord progressions employing the seventh harmonic, which are not possible in 12-equal tuning. It's a meta-music theory to explain every musical system in history around the planet. I'm writing musical pieces that can jump around from ancient Chinese to Greek to Arabic to India and stay perfectly in tune (none of the ancient melodies can be played in tune on our traditional piano).
If you don't support that stuff with good enough evidence, expect us to follow you through the interwebz and give you a hard debunking time! Perhaps we'll even collect money to have your theories tested by an independent acoustic lab!
It may theoretically be in perfect tune. BUT will modern audiences from different cultures hear it as being in tune?

"Tune" is very much culture determined.

IIRC the ancient Greeks would only accept octave 2:1 and fifth 3:2 intervals as consonant.

And another problem - Chris may get away with tunes written using notes up to F# - even "G" - but we all know you cannot go "over G".

He may be in for a Big Jolt when people fall outside the footprint of his expectations.

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Old 30th May 2015, 02:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Why I do NOT believe thermite was used to bring down the World Trade Center Buildings on 9/11. After the thermitic dust paper of 2009 by Harrit/Jones/Ryan/Farrer et al, I hired Jim Millette to analyze the WTC dust and he found NO THERMITE. This YouTube video is a detailed summary of responses to both studies: critiques by Jones of the Millette dust study, critiques of the 2009 paper, and ESPECIALLY shocking levels of opposition to the 2009 thermitic paper from 9/11 controlled demolition advocates! Then I say goodbye to the 9/11 debate; I have not found convincing scientific evidence to back up any controlled demolition theories. I'll stick around for awhile to respond to comments here, but I think it's finally time I mostly move on.
https://youtu.be/aGGJ4xzna8o
I'd like to see you do a full length examination of the non-technical side. I'm curious to see how many red flags and unanswered questions you come away with.
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Old 30th May 2015, 04:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
I'd like to see you do a full length examination of the non-technical side. I'm curious to see how many red flags and unanswered questions you come away with.
Perhaps you could define what criteria he should use to define a "red flag". To what depth do you define an "unanswered question".

I can think of a unanswered question for every event known to man if I try hard enough. Point is (and why I don't), I need a reason to try.
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Old 30th May 2015, 04:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
I'd like to see you do a full length examination of the non-technical side. I'm curious to see how many red flags and unanswered questions you come away with.
I'd like to see the 9/11 Truth remnants take any interest in it. They are still obsessed with fantasy explanations for the tower collapses and the Pentagon strike.
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Old 30th May 2015, 04:28 PM   #25
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They'll probably handwave it and call him a shill.
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Old 30th May 2015, 04:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Perhaps you could define what criteria he should use to define a "red flag". To what depth do you define an "unanswered question".
Isn't that both presumptive and prescriptive? Jango telling Chris how to set Chris's standards?

I've had more fun in recent weeks responding to questions with undefined standards - much more challenging IMO.

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I can think of a unanswered question for every event known to man if I try hard enough. Point is (and why I don't), I need a reason to try.
And that is true for all of us who can think of alternates. I can, you can, they can, Jango can.

BUT that path is not a dead end - it leads us to look at the basis of criteria like "legitimate", "significant" and, in this case, "how red is red".

Bottom line IMO - from whose perspective is the test to be taken - what demographic group, what is the legitimacy of their standing that their definition of "legitimate", "significant" or "red" should dominate .

I seem to recall posting that in another thread where I was outnumbered 120 to a handful.

So I must be wrong.

Chris obviously cannot know what flags are red UNLESS Jango defines Red???

How did any of us survive on forums before Jango came along. More generally how could we understand the meaning of words in posts unless....


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Old 30th May 2015, 04:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I'd like to see the 9/11 Truth remnants take any interest in it. They are still obsessed with fantasy explanations for the tower collapses and the Pentagon strike.
If you can even find any of them.

Most activity seems to be trolling/stirring with the goal of jerking chains and getting responses.

The real interest in the science rather than any 9/11 valid reason for it:

All the dust research here very educational for an observer like me - strong in structures and physics BUT near useless in chemistry, metallurgy and related techniques of lab measurement. Fun to watch. Educational but the water is too deep for me.

Currently on Metabunk there is an active revisiting of femr2's measurement techniques - impresses me - I understand when others explain it - but off the core of my expertise. Great to see at least one newbie to the game coming to accept the accuracy by actually doing the work and replicating some of the types of result.

But - off the diversion - there’s not a lot of new stuff coming forward. And even in those two examples of "dust" and "measurement" it is only recycling..the work long done.

So no new truthers because there is no new truth topic to discuss? Sort of.
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Old 30th May 2015, 04:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post

I seem to recall posting that in another thread where I was outnumbered 120 to a handful.

So I must be wrong.

If you look at that poll you will see you're preaching to the choir (If you allow a small one).

At this point I've lost interest in the whole "debate". There really is no debate and there hasn't been one in years.

The "thermite" thread is a joke. This sub-forum only exsists at this point to point and mock. Like you said, there are no more genuine "truthers".
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Old 30th May 2015, 05:53 PM   #29
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Perhaps debate is a wasted effort. You can't debate science, facts and observations. It's only the latter where there may be room for interpretation and debate.

However, I don't think that all possibilities explaining the so called "initiation" of the collapses have been explored. We may know that heat effects steel... but how did undo the frame? i think that is still in question.
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Old 30th May 2015, 06:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post

However, I don't think that all possibilities explaining the so called "initiation" of the collapses have been explored. We may know that heat effects steel... but how did undo the frame? i think that is still in question.
I would not argue this. Maybe a thread in a non-conspiracy forum could shed some light?

Is this the correct sub-forum for a discussion you envision?
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Old 30th May 2015, 08:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I would not argue this. Maybe a thread in a non-conspiracy forum could shed some light?

Is this the correct sub-forum for a discussion you envision?
In the best of worlds, yes. In reality though as soon as you refer to anything wrt the WTC , the thread will attract what can only exist in a conspiracy forum.
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Old 30th May 2015, 09:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Perhaps you could define what criteria he should use to define a "red flag". To what depth do you define an "unanswered question".

I can think of a unanswered question for every event known to man if I try hard enough. Point is (and why I don't), I need a reason to try.
Well...if you read what I said, definitions are unnecessary. It would be him examining the issues, so the red flags/unanswered questions would be of his own accord.
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Old 30th May 2015, 09:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Isn't that both presumptive and prescriptive? Jango telling Chris how to set Chris's standards?

I've had more fun in recent weeks responding to questions with undefined standards - much more challenging IMO.

And that is true for all of us who can think of alternates. I can, you can, they can, Jango can.

BUT that path is not a dead end - it leads us to look at the basis of criteria like "legitimate", "significant" and, in this case, "how red is red".

Bottom line IMO - from whose perspective is the test to be taken - what demographic group, what is the legitimacy of their standing that their definition of "legitimate", "significant" or "red" should dominate .

I seem to recall posting that in another thread where I was outnumbered 120 to a handful.

So I must be wrong.

Chris obviously cannot know what flags are red UNLESS Jango defines Red???

How did any of us survive on forums before Jango came along. More generally how could we understand the meaning of words in posts unless....

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Old 30th May 2015, 09:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
I'd like to see you do a full length examination of the non-technical side. I'm curious to see how many red flags and unanswered questions you come away with.
Jango, I've chosen not to spend thousands more hours doing an investigation of the nontechnical side. I would, however, love to see YOU take a good hard look at my video. I already put many hundreds of hours into this investigation, and have come up with no evidence of thermite in the 9/11 dust. Why should I go off researching the nontechnical side when I have just done such a thorough job researching the technical question of thermitic dust? For example, do you think there is any argument left about whether Millette found the right chips, considering the new information I revealed in this video?

There is a lot of new information in this video, and I hope it will be discussed in this thread.
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Old 30th May 2015, 10:29 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Jango, I've chosen not to spend thousands more hours doing an investigation of the nontechnical side.
Roger that.

Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I already put many hundreds of hours into this investigation, and have come up with no evidence of thermite in the 9/11 dust. Why should I go off researching the nontechnical side when I have just done such a thorough job researching the technical question of thermitic dust?
Apparently, you have no inclination to do so. However, what does debunking a technical claim have to do with debunking nontechnical claims?

Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
For example, do you think there is any argument left about whether Millette found the right chips, considering the new information I revealed in this video?
I don't know anything about Millette.
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:01 AM   #36
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Chris,

That was a brilliant record of the debate and the evidence. Such a balanced treatment of the subject is rare, and your documentaries truly add to the body of work one can turn to for a detailed, but 'accessible' explanation without the bias and preconceptions that are so often present in arguments via this medium.
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
Well...if you read what I said, definitions are unnecessary. It would be him examining the issues, so the red flags/unanswered questions would be of his own accord.

Well said sir.
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Old 31st May 2015, 02:30 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
If you look at that poll you will see you're preaching to the choir (If you allow a small one).
Double Quartette last time I counted.

But I do know who my friends are - that is why I posted in response to you. You understand the reasoning. I only count two other than the OP, you, me who I expect to understand the question. Still it's not the first time I've lined up to be counted with truthers who claim that the cloudless daytime sky is blue - or such similar issues that raise the ire of many.

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
At this point I've lost interest in the whole "debate". There really is no debate and there hasn't been one in years.
I've posted maybe a half dozen serious "papers" across probably three forums in the last 2-3 years. That apart from serious contributions to ongoing threads on the same forums.

No interest anywhere in serious stuff - look at my recent "calibration exercise" here with the "initiation cascade failure". I actually got more response from trolls and poes on DebatePolitics - the explanation there was to support why the "Top Blocks" didn't topple but it is the same cascading failure. Explanation didn't need to be as comprehensive as it did here.

Originally Posted by DGM View Post
The "thermite" thread is a joke. This sub-forum only exists at this point to point and mock. Like you said, there are no more genuine "truthers".
The scientific interest in thermXte and dust is genuine and research conducted at high standards. But - in the absence of a viable prima facie pro-CD hypothesis it is "supporting evidence" for a non existent hypothesis. Fortunately there is no "Bazant of ThermXte" established as unchallengeable God or we would be seeing "debates" about whether there was "one big heap" or lots of little heaps". Some one would have written a paper "The Missing Heap" - the analogy breaks down there because in that case I wouldn't need to argue "there never could have been a big heap"
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Old 31st May 2015, 06:58 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by HotRodDeluxe View Post
Chris,

That was a brilliant record of the debate and the evidence. Such a balanced treatment of the subject is rare, and your documentaries truly add to the body of work one can turn to for a detailed, but 'accessible' explanation without the bias and preconceptions that are so often present in arguments via this medium.
Thanks Hot Rod, but to be honest, I have to deal with my confirmation biases just like everyone else. I was biased against 9/11 Controlled Demolition at first. The way I dealt with it was the same way I dealt with my initial bias against global warming theories in the 80s -- after all, I had been told in the 70s we might be going into a period of global cooling because particulates being belched out of factory smokestacks would partially block the sun's rays! In that case, I looked at the best research by actual climate scientists and found my bias was probably leading me away from the best available science, and changed my mind.

Same with 9/11 Truth. I was biased against the theory so I looked at the things that most stumped me and took my questions to real scientists. I didn't understand eutectic steel corrosion and "melting" so I went straight to Jonathan Barnett, the EPA top dog who first reported it. I didn't understand freefall acceleration of Building 7 so I asked about 100 physicists and structural engineers until I understood it from the 14 people who bothered to answer. I didn't understand thermite in the dust and the 2009 paper so I hired Jim Millette to look for thermite. I didn't understand iron-rich spheres so I contacted two fire chemists who explained several ways besides thermite to create them... plus I got two guys right here to burn paint-on-steel and find iron-rich spheres.

So in this case, my initial bias was actually confirmed by very knowledgeable people. My last questions were thoroughly answered by Millette, the fire chemists, Dave Thomas and Ivan Kminek, among others, and those answers are to be found in this video.

And Jango, if you don't know anything about Millette, please watch my video first and then comment on it if you have anything to say. That's what this thread is for. Please.
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Old 31st May 2015, 08:00 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Congratulations on a job well done, Chris. Your determination, patience, thoroughness, intellectual integrity, and respect for your adversaries are all most remarkable...Thank you.
Indeed. I must say, Chris, IIRC years ago it was I who reported to the JREF the proposition of what would become your first debate with Gage. In that post I recall referring to you as a "paper tiger". I gladly accept, and enjoy being corrected, that I was wrong in that analysis, as well as congratulate you on all the fine work you have done.
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