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Tags Chris Mohr , james millette , nanothermite , Niels Harrit , richard gage , steven jones , thermite , wtc dust

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Old 31st May 2015, 09:05 PM   #41
chrismohr
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Shek,Yeah, you underestimated me at first, but within a couple days you were helping me me by posting stuff on my behalf as I was trying to get started on JREF. Thanks for that.
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Old 1st June 2015, 06:18 AM   #42
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duplicate post
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Last edited by chrismohr; 1st June 2015 at 06:19 AM. Reason: duplicate post
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Old 1st June 2015, 04:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Thanks Hot Rod, but to be honest, I have to deal with my confirmation biases just like everyone else. I was biased against 9/11 Controlled Demolition at first. The way I dealt with it was the same way I dealt with my initial bias against global warming theories in the 80s -- after all, I had been told in the 70s we might be going into a period of global cooling because particulates being belched out of factory smokestacks would partially block the sun's rays! In that case, I looked at the best research by actual climate scientists and found my bias was probably leading me away from the best available science, and changed my mind.

Same with 9/11 Truth. I was biased against the theory so I looked at the things that most stumped me and took my questions to real scientists. I didn't understand eutectic steel corrosion and "melting" so I went straight to Jonathan Barnett, the EPA top dog who first reported it. I didn't understand freefall acceleration of Building 7 so I asked about 100 physicists and structural engineers until I understood it from the 14 people who bothered to answer. I didn't understand thermite in the dust and the 2009 paper so I hired Jim Millette to look for thermite. I didn't understand iron-rich spheres so I contacted two fire chemists who explained several ways besides thermite to create them... plus I got two guys right here to burn paint-on-steel and find iron-rich spheres.

So in this case, my initial bias was actually confirmed by very knowledgeable people. My last questions were thoroughly answered by Millette, the fire chemists, Dave Thomas and Ivan Kminek, among others, and those answers are to be found in this video.
I understand your bias, but at least you're aware of it and you addressed the subject with that in mind, therefore, kudos.

I'm already circulating it on the more 'poisonous' truther threads to the usual reams of abuse, but no-one can discredit the content.
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Old 1st June 2015, 05:04 PM   #44
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I've decided, for the first time, to open up this YouTube video to comments. I will "censor" swear words, vicious ad hominem attacks, Nazi propaganda, and irrelevant posts etc but will leave all nother comments and criticicisms up. So far, two posts from a Judy Wood follower!
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Old 1st June 2015, 05:15 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I've decided, for the first time, to open up this YouTube video to comments. I will "censor" swear words, vicious ad hominem attacks, Nazi propaganda, and irrelevant posts etc but will leave all nother comments and criticicisms up. So far, two posts from a Judy Wood follower!
That's great Chris should be fun, would you like to know how sulfidication occurs,
It is very simple to understand?
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Old 1st June 2015, 09:23 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I've decided, for the first time, to open up this YouTube video to comments. I will "censor" swear words, vicious ad hominem attacks, Nazi propaganda, and irrelevant posts etc but will leave all nother comments and criticicisms up. So far, two posts from a Judy Wood follower!
Cool.

One question though. Why did you put "" around censor?
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Old 2nd June 2015, 12:52 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
Cool.

One question though. Why did you put "" around censor?
I think he means substitute US based forum spellings.

On forums which conform to US standards of language prudishness my favourite Aussie words are spelled like this:

Example #1 ****
- we Aussies don’t go around saying "Oh faeces" or "that is a load of faeces". Nor do we refer to the "faeces of a male bovine".

Example #2 ******
- when we want to say "resembling a haemoglobin rich body fluid" we just say ******. We have a poem about that one The Integrated Adjective

Example #4 *******
- when we refer to someone by this word we are not referring to the marital status of his parents at the moment he was conceived.

Example #5 *******
- a fantasy location used in a dismissive statement such as "go to *******"

The more diminutive form ****** refers - if used literally - to a form of sexual congress which was until recently illegal in most common law jurisdictions. BUT Aussies rarely use it with the literal dictionary and historic meaning. And cannot use it on those forums where it gets spelled ****** which sort of loses the point. AND it was the single key word of an Aussie Toyota TV campaign a couple of years back. I doubt it would have been as well received in other countries. 30 second TV commercial. Climactic single word comment "******"

Then some folks probably reckon "Aussie Humour" is an oxymoron. And in the North of England the saying is "there's nowt so queer as folk."

(I'm 11/74ths Yorkshire - the rest pure Aussie. )

Last edited by ozeco41; 2nd June 2015 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 2nd June 2015, 05:02 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I've decided, for the first time, to open up this YouTube video to comments. I will "censor" swear words, vicious ad hominem attacks, Nazi propaganda, and irrelevant posts etc but will leave all nother comments and criticicisms up. So far, two posts from a Judy Wood follower!
Just wanted to show you these before you go Chris,
Just my experiments into sulfidication back in 2007.
Interest




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Old 2nd June 2015, 05:58 AM   #49
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Thanks Herr Chainsaw,
Actually I won't be going for a few months, because this new video is generating some extreme responses already.
You may know that in my personal emails with Jonathan Barnett, who used to be the EPA top dog who published the Appendix C with the sulfidized steel from 9/11, he hypothesized that battery acid, acid rain or burning of gypsum at sustained high temps could have been possible sources. He also specifically said thermate was NOT the cause. Did you sulfidize this steel with heat and sulfur and water?
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Old 2nd June 2015, 06:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Thanks Herr Chainsaw,
Actually I won't be going for a few months, because this new video is generating some extreme responses already.
You may know that in my personal emails with Jonathan Barnett, who used to be the EPA top dog who published the Appendix C with the sulfidized steel from 9/11, he hypothesized that battery acid, acid rain or burning of gypsum at sustained high temps could have been possible sources. He also specifically said thermate was NOT the cause. Did you sulfidize this steel with heat and sulfur and water?
It was simple, I used the refined fuels in the smoke to crack gypsum,
Into sulfur, then with steam erroded the steel.
Truthers always mess up by putting the steel in the fire that will not work,
The fuels in the Smoke, Carbon Monoxide, and carbon black can reach very
High temps in air, hot enough to crack gypsum and induce thermitic reactions
In the rubble piles.
When sufficient oxidation is present.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fl...ses-d_422.html

Last edited by Crazy Chainsaw; 2nd June 2015 at 06:39 AM. Reason: add link.
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Old 2nd June 2015, 06:33 AM   #51
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Chris - I have previously advised you to head in a different direction with your free time. I'm sure that it wasn't my advice, but your music project sounds interesting and I'd like to congratulate you nonetheless. I'm glad that you accomplished something with your efforts, but moving on is definitely the right call.

You know what could divide an octave into 23 parts? A trombone!
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Old 2nd June 2015, 09:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I've decided, for the first time, to open up this YouTube video to comments. I will "censor" swear words, vicious ad hominem attacks, Nazi propaganda, and irrelevant posts etc but will leave all nother comments and criticicisms up. So far, two posts from a Judy Wood follower!
No surprise there. Expect more kinds of truther followers.
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Old 3rd June 2015, 09:58 AM   #53
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Surprisingly, two 9/11 Truth people have said they have changed their views! And another one seems to have conceded the thermite aspect of the debate (See new comments on YouTube). One guy has sent profanity and insults, which I am censoring as promised. And this time Jango I will own that I am censoring profanity on my YouTube channel.
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Old 3rd June 2015, 05:38 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I'm a composer of classical music and am writing a book called The Grand Unified Theory of Music, which explains how dividing the octave into 53 equal parts (instead of the twelve notes of a piano) makes it possible to play all of the ancient scales (hundreds of them from all over the world) in their pure original tunings, plus develop new chord progressions employing the seventh harmonic, which are not possible in 12-equal tuning.
We're gonna need a bigger piano.
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Old 3rd June 2015, 10:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
...the technical specifications allude me.
"Elude," but who's counting?

Quote:
As I've openly shared, I'm a layman with technical stuff such as what you're asking. So to try and answer your question thoroughly: I don't have sufficient information nor technical knowledge to either believe nor disbelieve, in effect, leaving me in limbo.
And the question is what you're going to do with that limbo. You can either acquire the technical expertise required to inform your opinion, or you can put your trust in someone you think has that judgment. But conspiracy theorists generally do neither. They generally pretend the problem fits within their simplistic understanding and continue holding a belief in relative ignorance.

Which of these three options do you plan to do?
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Old 3rd June 2015, 10:22 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
"Elude," but who's counting?
Apparently just you.

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And the question is what you're going to do with that limbo. You can either acquire the technical expertise required to inform your opinion, or you can put your trust in someone you think has that judgment. But conspiracy theorists generally do neither. They generally pretend the problem fits within their simplistic understanding and continue holding a belief in relative ignorance.

Which of these three options do you plan to do?
Door #4: I'm not going to do anything. I have not claimed that it was used. I don't recall ever saying all that much about it or giving it much thought -- I suppose because it felt like grasping at straws.
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Old 3rd June 2015, 10:26 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
Apparently just you.
Eh, not really. I was going to answer that post anyway, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

Quote:
I have not claimed that it was used. I don't recall ever saying all that much about it or giving it much thought -- I suppose because it felt like grasping at straws.
Fair enough.
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Old 4th June 2015, 06:47 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Apparently not, Hot Rod. It has been successfully and completely derailed by Jango, who is talking about a subject that belongs on a completely different thread. Considering the hundreds of hours of research I put in to my video, which is filled with new content and incredibly damning (in my opinion) of the 2009 thermitic paper, I wish I had permission to swear like a longshoreman here! Seriously, this is ridiculously frustrating. Jango, go get a thread about censorship and slog it out there. I tried to get Jango to talk about the video itself and he pleaded ignorance. Has anyone noticed some of the things that top 9/11 Truth people (including two of the main authors of the 2009 thermitic study Steven Jones and Jeff Farrer, and for that matter Mark Basile) have said about this study, how they can't find elemental aluminum, and how their own words cast serious doubt on their own work? And all the 9/11 CD advocates who don't buy the 2009 paper at all? And several 9/11 Truth people who have been deeply influenced by Millette's no-thermite-in-the-dust paper? Any comments about all THAT? Anyone??
1. I'm sorry.

2. I admitted my ignorance in technical matters.
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Old 4th June 2015, 09:07 AM   #59
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:42 AM   #60
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The difficulties in being able to determine that elemental aluminum was present in the samples was something I did not know about until I watched the video.
And so, back to the thread topic......
We have a poster, jay howard, on this forum loudly proclaiming the existence of elemental aluminum being confirmed and thus strongly demonstrating thermite. How can that possibly jibe with the points you make in the video?
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Old 4th June 2015, 12:10 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
The difficulties in being able to determine that elemental aluminum was present in the samples was something I did not know about until I watched the video.
And so, back to the thread topic......
We have a poster, jay howard, on this forum loudly proclaiming the existence of elemental aluminum being confirmed and thus strongly demonstrating thermite. How can that possibly jibe with the points you make in the video?
It doesn't jibe AT ALL. I'd like to invite Jay over here again, to watch the video and see what Mark Basile and Steven Jones have said about the lack of elemental aluminum in the chips. No elemental aluminum, no thermite.
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Old 4th June 2015, 01:15 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
It doesn't jibe AT ALL. I'd like to invite Jay over here again, to watch the video and see what Mark Basile and Steven Jones have said about the lack of elemental aluminum in the chips. No elemental aluminum, no thermite.
Nor, as you point out, is there enough oxidized aluminum in the dust to support the claim of aluminum based thermite having been burned,.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 4th June 2015 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 4th June 2015, 05:01 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Nor, as you point out, is there enough oxidized aluminum in the dust to support the claim of aluminum based thermite having been burned,.
And what burned?
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Old 4th June 2015, 08:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
And what burned?
Reacted, better?
Did I misunderstand the point in the video?

Last edited by jaydeehess; 4th June 2015 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 5th June 2015, 10:05 AM   #65
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Interesting interactions with Oystein and some 9/'11 Truth folk on my YouTube channel!
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Old 5th June 2015, 12:28 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Interesting interactions with Oystein and some 9/'11 Truth folk on my YouTube channel!
A first for me I ACTUALLY went to YouTube.
- my own motivations and areas of interest in 9/11 matters clearly stated many times.

However kudos to Oystein for those very well targeted and presented comments. IMO a good balance of "use language suited to the audience" and "sufficient facts" without overloading with technical details.

Well done with the series Chris and my commendation to Oystein for his contribution of those interactions.
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Old 6th June 2015, 12:24 PM   #67
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[quote=chrismohr;10680046]Hey gang, wait a second! I'm not quite through YET. I imagine it will take some back-and-forth after people digest this new video, and I'll certainly stick around to see that unfold and try to respond to comments and questions.

Hello Chris and all here. As a brief introduction, I work as a health physicist and am a declared 911 truth advocate. I have two Grandparents who were Senators, two who were war heroes, a mother in the CFR, and a deceased father who was a high ranking DOJ official and later VP for National Security at a large Eastern telecom.

I've not familiarized myself with your rebuttal videos Chris, and promise to do so before continuing further, but I can state definitively that none of the debunking argumentation I've heard thus far has even remotely swayed me toward the official explanation of 'crush down, crush up' with respect to the WTC complex buildings, nor to the plausibility of the events in DC, Shanksville, and the NRO.

As this forum is clearly a place for information warfare, I acknowledge that I'll likely be up against formidable opponents, and hope that my contrarian views at the very least help to strengthen your counterpoints if not convince you to just out with the truth.

In other words, please don't metaphorically or actully drone strike me for choosing to debate. I understand I'm up against a far superior opponent. God bless America, and off topic... your 53rd division of a harmonic sounds phenomenal. As a connesour of music, thank you for that!

I'll watch your 23 videos, make notes, an then 'bring it on'.

Best,
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Old 6th June 2015, 12:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
I've heard thus far has even remotely swayed me toward the official explanation of 'crush down, crush up' with respect to the WTC complex buildings,......................
Welcome.

This is good because it has nothing to do with the "official explanation".

It was part of a limiting model that explored the energy requirements and budgets in the towers. Has little to nothing to do with the actual collapse.
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Old 6th June 2015, 12:36 PM   #69
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Before you go any further, Notconvinced, learn to use the preview function. It helps avoid coding errors.
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Old 6th June 2015, 12:48 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
I've not familiarized myself with your rebuttal videos Chris, and promise to do so before continuing further,...
Welcome - a good move to start to get familiar with all the necessary evidence and reasoning.

DGM has beaten me to it on this bit:

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
but I can state definitively that none of the debunking argumentation I've heard thus far has even remotely swayed me toward the official explanation of 'crush down, crush up' with respect to the WTC complex buildings, nor to the plausibility of the events in DC, Shanksville, and the NRO.
That is not the official explanation...more importantly it is WRONG and even more complicated and sadder is that it is a false explanation which has confused many persons.

AND - for a lot of members here - what I just said is anathema. DGM stated the situation briefly - and accurately. 'crush down, crush up' is a derivation of a very early academic explanation of why the collapses of WTC1 and WTC2 "progressed" i.e. why they went all the way to the ground - rapidly - after the collapse started. It is a false explanation so take care.

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
As this forum is clearly a place for information warfare,
Well "warfare" but more likely "disinformation warfare" at this stage of the dying game.

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
I acknowledge that I'll likely be up against formidable opponents,
Possibly "resistant" rather than "formidable"
Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
and hope that my contrarian views at the very least help to strengthen your counterpoints if not convince you to just out with the truth.
Unlikely on both points but get the feel of the place for yourself.

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
In other words, please don't metaphorically or actually drone strike me for choosing to debate. I understand I'm up against a far superior opponent.
Chris is not your only opponent or collaborator in the search for shared understanding - tho' he is probably one of the more polite ones.

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
God bless America, and off topic... your 53rd division of a harmonic sounds phenomenal. As a connesour of music, thank you for that!
The base problem I'm awaiting explanation of is "what is magic about 53?" when the foundation issue AFAIK is the consonance of pure integer fractions such as 3/2, 5/4, 17/16 and all the rest....I don't see how 53 forms a super-set of the many possibilities but still limited bases for consonance nor how the 53rd root of 2 would be any "better" in the absolute sense that 12th root of 2.

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
I'll watch your 23 videos, make notes, an then 'bring it on'.

Best,
A good starting point. Go for it.

Last edited by ozeco41; 6th June 2015 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 6th June 2015, 12:53 PM   #71
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Good luck NotConvinced. I think you'll find my videos very respectful. I'm no scientist, just a journalist by training, so I asked a LOT of physicists, heavy equipment operators, architects, structural engineers, metyallurgists, fire chemists, and many more people about the many many technical issues. Only about half of the info in there comes from this forum. If you're respectful, some people here will reciprocate and some will call you a Twoofie anyway!
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Old 6th June 2015, 01:00 PM   #72
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Ozeco41, 53-eq tuning is 30x closer to the perfect fifth (third harmonic) than 12-eq, abougt ten times closer to the major third (fifth harmonic) than 12,eq, and 8 times closer to the seventh harmonic (minor seventh) than 12-eq. This pattern continues through almost all the hiogher hrmonics, but they are almost never used by composers anyway. 53-eq was fikrst discovered by King Fang of China (not a King, just had that name) 3000+ years ago and was known as a mathematically superior musical tuning system by Newton, Mercator, Helmholz, etc. I'm just the first person to actually fully exploit its musical potential.
But back to that thermite...
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Old 6th June 2015, 01:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
........................ nor to the plausibility of the events in DC, Shanksville, and the NRO.
To add:

If you would like to discus these I would advise you to find the appropriate thread and not side track this one.

<I'm wondering what the "NRO" is.>
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Old 6th June 2015, 01:12 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Ozeco41, 53-eq tuning is 30x closer to the perfect fifth (third harmonic) than 12-eq, abougt ten times closer to the major third (fifth harmonic) than 12,eq, and 8 times closer to the seventh harmonic (minor seventh) than 12-eq. This pattern continues through almost all the hiogher hrmonics, but they are almost never used by composers anyway. 53-eq was fikrst discovered by King Fang of China (not a King, just had that name) 3000+ years ago and was known as a mathematically superior musical tuning system by Newton, Mercator, Helmholz, etc. I'm just the first person to actually fully exploit its musical potential.
But back to that thermite...
Thanks Chris.

I was guessing that it was a "far better approximation" rather than "perfect" (not a bad choice of word even tho I had written it before I realised the several meanings). And probably as accurate as ears can detect whilst a lot of music types with "good ears" can pick the 12eq misfits. I cannot hear them directly but the beatings on sustained tone instruments obvious even to me.

My earlier comment "nor how the 53rd root of 2 would be any "better" in the absolute sense that 12th root of 2." on re-reading was poorly stated. Clearly 53eq is absolutely better than 12eq - what I really meant was that it is still not "perfect". I'll stop before I dig myself in any deeper over such a simple point.

My limited perspective on the "higher harmonics" is that we have been admitting more and more of them "As Time Goes By" (Theme song of our just completed choir concert series celebrating the 150th anniversary of the local town.) IIRC the ancient Greeks only allowed octave and fifth.

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Old 6th June 2015, 01:21 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
To add:

If you would like to discus these I would advise you to find the appropriate thread and not side track this one.

<I'm wondering what the "NRO" is.>
I also suggest he go find one of the threads that ask for an explanation of the entire day's events. That he even botherd to mention more than New York shows promise in itself
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Old 6th June 2015, 01:59 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
...But back to that thermite...
I like this quote at 1min48secs:

..I seem to recall an oft repeated theme on this forum "Even if there were 100tonne stockpiles of thermXte on Ground Zero...."

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Old 6th June 2015, 02:15 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
Before you go any further, Notconvinced, learn to use the preview function. It helps avoid coding errors.
I'd also recommend the "search function" because just about every topic concerning 9/11 has been discussed here at some point.
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Old 6th June 2015, 02:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
...
<I'm wondering what the "NRO" is.>
National Reconnaissance Office maybe? Google did not give me any other candidates a 9/11 CTist would likely be interested in.
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Old 6th June 2015, 03:11 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
National Reconnaissance Office maybe? Google did not give me any other candidates a 9/11 CTist would likely be interested in.
I was thinking it was a typo. NRO>>>> NWO.
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Old 6th June 2015, 03:33 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I was thinking it was a typo. NRO>>>> NWO.
Makes sense. Could be the Narwhal Racing Organization though, they have always been a bit on the subversive side.
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