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Tags Nicolas Maduro , Venezuela economy , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 12th September 2013, 08:14 PM   #1
Virus
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Massive blackout affects 70% of Venezuela.

Socialism is awesome. Who needs light, heat, industry and stuff like that anyway? Rolling blackout affects more than half the country.

But in a surprise move, President Maduro gave an honest appraisal and blamed the rampant government incompetence, corruption, mismanagement and the ruling party's crackpot economic theories.

Nah just kidding. It was all the fault of a vast conspiracy lead by America and opposition political parties. (And you know who runs the high echelons of the global economy don't you? Nudge nudge, wink wink. Rhymes with "whose".)

Of course, if capitalists really wanted to make Venezuela look bad all they would have to do is like, nothing, because it's a piece of crap basketcase run by a bunch of ideological idiots and you'd have to be a drug-addled leftist retard like Sean Penn not to see that.
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Last edited by Virus; 12th September 2013 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 12th September 2013, 08:57 PM   #2
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If it wasn't for the US trade ban against Venezuela they'd be a prosperous beacon of light.

Oh, wait...
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Old 12th September 2013, 09:15 PM   #3
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Well, they could always go the traditional route and set quotas on how many saboteurs have to be found and shot.
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Old 12th September 2013, 09:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
If it wasn't for the US trade ban against Venezuela they'd be a prosperous beacon of light.

Oh, wait...
Every time a country comes close to creating the socialist sky kingdom along come the capitalists, imperialists and (Jewish?) bankers to wreck it all and cause bread lines, blackouts, inflation and black markets. Forcing the government to kill millions of spies and saboteurs.
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Old 12th September 2013, 11:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Virus View Post
Of course, if capitalists really wanted to make Venezuela look bad all they would have to do is like, nothing, because it's a piece of crap basketcase run by a bunch of ideological idiots
Ah no. I understand your confusion their propaganda really is rather good but when the history is so straightforward there is no real excuse. The guys running Venezuela simply wish to remain in power. Ideology is irrelivant other than the issue that the last coup launched against them was backed by well rather old fashioned capitalists. If the next coup is launched by neo-marxists expect them to get attacked as well.
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Old 13th September 2013, 12:02 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Ah no. I understand your confusion their propaganda really is rather good but when the history is so straightforward there is no real excuse. The guys running Venezuela simply wish to remain in power. Ideology is irrelivant other than the issue that the last coup launched against them was backed by well rather old fashioned capitalists. If the next coup is launched by neo-marxists expect them to get attacked as well.
Ideology is not irrelevant because the economy is being trashed trying to implement it.
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Old 13th September 2013, 12:18 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Virus View Post
Ideology is not irrelevant because the economy is being trashed trying to implement it.
No the economy is being trashed trying to eliminate threats to those in power. Remeber Chávez tried to stage his own coup back in the 90s. Upshot is a very practical approach to power.
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Old 13th September 2013, 12:51 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
No the economy is being trashed trying to eliminate threats to those in power.
Yeah and implementing crackpot socialist BS.
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Old 13th September 2013, 03:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Virus View Post
Yeah and implementing crackpot socialist BS.
Keep believing the propaganda it makes you less likely to end up on watchlists.
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Old 13th September 2013, 04:38 AM   #10
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
No the economy is being trashed trying to eliminate threats to those in power.
Any evidence to support this geni?

No?

Didn't think so, but thanks for parroting the party line!
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:30 AM   #12
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Always funny when someone gets all offended and plays the "no true socialism" card.
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Old 13th September 2013, 06:01 AM   #13
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I have to hand it to the Chavez/Maduro regime, wrecking the economy of a major oil producer at these oil price levels is no mean feat.
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Old 13th September 2013, 10:11 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
If it wasn't for the US trade ban against Venezuela they'd be a prosperous beacon of light.

Oh, wait...
If you try and trade with them they just swipe all your stuff.
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Old 13th September 2013, 10:24 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Well, they could always go the traditional route and set quotas on how many saboteurs have to be found and shot.

Hey,that really worked great for Stalin in preparing the Russian Army for World War 2....
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Old 13th September 2013, 10:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I have to hand it to the Chavez/Maduro regime, wrecking the economy of a major oil producer at these oil price levels is no mean feat.
Wow, they might be giving Mugabe some competition in the "How to wreck a countries economy" department.
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Old 13th September 2013, 12:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Any evidence to support this geni?
The 90s coup attempt can be found in all the relivant histories of the area.
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Old 13th September 2013, 01:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
The 90s coup attempt can be found in all the relivant histories of the area.
So that's why Venezuela's economy is a wreck in 2013?
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Old 13th September 2013, 01:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
No the economy is being trashed trying to eliminate threats to those in power. Remeber Chávez tried to stage his own coup back in the 90s. Upshot is a very practical approach to power.
That is retarded. You'd think they'd be improving the economy, making them more popular and it less likely that someone would want to overthrow them?
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Old 13th September 2013, 03:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
I have to hand it to the Chavez/Maduro regime, wrecking the economy of a major oil producer at these oil price levels is no mean feat.
+1
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Wow, they might be giving Mugabe some competition in the "How to wreck a countries economy" department.
It is easier to destroy than to create.
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Old 13th September 2013, 03:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
That is retarded. You'd think they'd be improving the economy, making them more popular and it less likely that someone would want to overthrow them?
Nope. As the 2002 coup showed conventional capitalism is a threat to them.
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Old 13th September 2013, 04:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Nope. As the 2002 coup showed conventional capitalism is a threat to them.
So, the solution is to drive the country deeper into poverty, causing even more popular resentment towards the government? What is this, I don't even.
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
Nope. As the 2002 coup showed conventional capitalism is a threat to them.
So introducing price controls that set the price lower than the cost of production and setting the value of the currency higher than the exchange rate isn't the cause of shortages?
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
So, the solution is to drive the country deeper into poverty, causing even more popular resentment towards the government? What is this, I don't even.
It only causes resentment towards the government if you can't sucessfuly blame someone else. Given that it hasn't yet resulted in a serious attempt to overthrow the goverment the tactic appears to be working.
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
So introducing price controls that set the price lower than the cost of production and setting the value of the currency higher than the exchange rate isn't the cause of shortages?
I didn't say that. I was arguing about the motivation.
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by geni View Post
It only causes resentment towards the government if you can't sucessfuly blame someone else. Given that it hasn't yet resulted in a serious attempt to overthrow the goverment the tactic appears to be working.
That is an utterly retarded policy. I'm sorry, but eventually you're going to have a revolution when infrastructure is a shoddy as a blackout cutting off 70% of the power grid.
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Old 13th September 2013, 05:57 PM   #27
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Old 13th September 2013, 06:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
That is an utterly retarded policy. I'm sorry, but eventually you're going to have a revolution when infrastructure is a shoddy as a blackout cutting off 70% of the power grid.
I wish that were true. North Korea suffered far worse, with no revolution in sight.
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Old 13th September 2013, 08:40 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
That is retarded. You'd think they'd be improving the economy, making them more popular and it less likely that someone would want to overthrow them?
Not if improving the economy means ceding some power to capitalists.
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Old 14th September 2013, 02:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I wish that were true. North Korea suffered far worse, with no revolution in sight.
Except, Venezuela had (somewhat) democratic institutions before Chavez et al. came along.
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Old 14th September 2013, 05:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Except, Venezuela had (somewhat) democratic institutions before Chavez et al. came along.
That may help, but it's no guarantee. It's still possible Chavez could squeeze hard enough to prevent a revolution, even with 70+% blackouts.

I really would like to believe that revolutions are inevitable whenever a dictatorship gets bad enough, but the sad truth is that history just doesn't provide any support for that position.
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Old 14th September 2013, 05:37 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
That is retarded. You'd think they'd be improving the economy, making them more popular and it less likely that someone would want to overthrow them?
No. An improved economy would require more money, and hence more power, flowing through other people's hands. It's not about whether or not someone wants to overthrow Chavez, or any other tinpot dictator, it's about whether or not they can. Let them desire it with all their hearts, just never let it be within reach. A wrecked economy can make revolution harder, not easier, because there are no resources left over from which to form a rival power structure.
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Old 14th September 2013, 06:04 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No. An improved economy would require more money, and hence more power, flowing through other people's hands. It's not about whether or not someone wants to overthrow Chavez, or any other tinpot dictator, it's about whether or not they can. Let them desire it with all their hearts, just never let it be within reach. A wrecked economy can make revolution harder, not easier, because there are no resources left over from which to form a rival power structure.
Except, the Argentine Junta lost power largely because the economy was wrecked (Falklands was the last straw).

Wrecking the economy leads to serious discontent towards the government and unrest (look at Greece).
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Old 14th September 2013, 02:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Except, the Argentine Junta lost power largely because the economy was wrecked (Falklands was the last straw).

Wrecking the economy leads to serious discontent towards the government and unrest (look at Greece).
Greece is not a dictatorship, it is not a relevant case for our purposes. And I think you misunderstand: I'm not arguing that economic problems cannot or do not ever lead to revolutions under dictatorships. I'm arguing that there's nothing inevitable about it, and it's not even the norm. A few examples of it happening don't demonstrate otherwise. Most dictatorships survive the economic ruin they create. I really wish it were otherwise, but it's not.
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Old 17th September 2013, 02:42 AM   #35
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More good news from the socialist paradise. Venezuela hits 45% inflation.

There's no toilet paper, no paper for newsprint and rationing is in effect.
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Old 17th September 2013, 02:57 AM   #36
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With the glorious Bolivarian Revolution, the "chicken in every pot" dream will be soon fulfilled. We only have a few more pots to confiscate.

From the latter link:

Quote:
Finance Minister Nelson Merentes said last week that he would travel to The United States and Europe to seek investment to try to shore up a deficit of dollars.
Yeah, good luck with that. Given how fabulously Hugo treated foreign investors, I'm sure people are lining up to give him money.
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Old 17th September 2013, 04:46 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Virus View Post
More good news from the socialist paradise. Venezuela hits 45% inflation.

There's no toilet paper, no paper for newsprint and rationing is in effect.
The good news is that the first problem will soon solve the second problem.
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Old 17th September 2013, 05:05 AM   #38
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This country is 90% of my companies bad debts and also threatens to just steal our equipment if we complain. Like they have done with other companies.

I guess CE is too busy with the Syria CT stuf to care about the people of Venezuela nowadays.
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Old 17th September 2013, 05:19 AM   #39
timhau
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
This country is 90% of my companies bad debts and also threatens to just steal our equipment if we complain. Like they have done with other companies.
Either that or skipping the threats and just stealing everything outright seems to be their SOP. Did they really think it wouldn't come back and bite them in the butt?
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Old 17th September 2013, 05:28 AM   #40
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Meanwhile Columbia and Brazil have booming economies and are soaking up Venezuelan entrepreneurs.
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