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Tags Nicolas Maduro , Venezuela economy , Venezuela issues , Venezuela politics

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Old 17th September 2013, 07:27 AM   #41
Virus
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
This country is 90% of my companies bad debts and also threatens to just steal our equipment if we complain. Like they have done with other companies.
I hope they've learned not to do business with left-wing political loonies. Malaysia has.

Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
I guess CE is too busy with the Syria CT stuf to care about the people of Venezuela nowadays.
She's just going to say imperialists, the CIA and Jews took all the toilet paper.
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Last edited by Virus; 17th September 2013 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 17th September 2013, 10:12 AM   #42
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Blackouts NEVER happen here where we breath the free air of capitalism, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._power_outages
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Old 17th September 2013, 03:37 PM   #43
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Have you tried taking the issue up with the Strawman Department?
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Old 17th September 2013, 04:37 PM   #44
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C'mon Virus, you know better; no strawman there. It's just the thread's title is misleading as it implies just a one-time event and Ben probably knows about Venezuela as little as you and your thread partners do.
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Old 17th September 2013, 07:04 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
C'mon Virus, you know better; no strawman there. It's just the thread's title is misleading as it implies just a one-time event and Ben probably knows about Venezuela as little as you and your thread partners do.
So what information do you have to add?
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Old 17th September 2013, 08:05 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Blackouts NEVER happen here where we breath the free air of capitalism, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._power_outages
I think the difference is, when one of the western capitalist countries gets a blackout, the first instinct of the government isn't to blame "enemies of the state".

An argument could also be made about the number/severity of blackouts. Yes, we do get power problems in North America, but from what I've read, the problems are much more frequent in Venezuela.
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Old 18th September 2013, 01:34 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think the difference is, when one of the western capitalist countries gets a blackout, the first instinct of the government isn't to blame "enemies of the state".

An argument could also be made about the number/severity of blackouts. Yes, we do get power problems in North America, but from what I've read, the problems are much more frequent in Venezuela.
given the CIA's and propably other parties in south america, it is not so suprising they would jump to that conclusion.
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Old 18th September 2013, 01:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
It's just the thread's title is misleading as it implies just a one-time event and Ben probably knows about Venezuela as little as you and your thread partners do.
I guess that makes you the big expert on being led by corrupt political loonies. Congratulations.
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Last edited by Virus; 18th September 2013 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 18th September 2013, 03:35 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Virus View Post
I guess that makes you the big expert on being led by corrupt political loonies. Congratulations, you win a million Argentine pesos. Which isn't worth anything.
Wow! If you edited your message to that non sequitur, what a bile-bursting piece of it must have been the original one. Chávez would have found you to be a kindred soul. Why don't you stick to what you know instead of enacting some sort of Cold War residual debate? For instance, you may learn that Columbia is the United States and not Colombia both in English and Spanish before posting messages like your #40. Stick to the topic also and avoid trying to derail your own thread. If you wanted the topic to be trash-talk involving Venezuela you should have explicitly state that in the opening post instead of start piling other topics -like inflation- within the thread.
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Old 18th September 2013, 11:31 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Wow! If you edited your message to that non sequitur, what a bile-bursting piece of it must have been the original one. Chávez would have found you to be a kindred soul. Why don't you stick to what you know instead of enacting some sort of Cold War residual debate? For instance, you may learn that Columbia is the United States and not Colombia both in English and Spanish before posting messages like your #40. Stick to the topic also and avoid trying to derail your own thread. If you wanted the topic to be trash-talk involving Venezuela you should have explicitly state that in the opening post instead of start piling other topics -like inflation- within the thread.
Did you have any information on the rolling blackouts, their causes, effects, or contributing factors?

So far all you've done is assert that other posters are wrong. Could you provide the correct information then?
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Old 18th September 2013, 11:53 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Did you have any information on the rolling blackouts, their causes, effects, or contributing factors?

So far all you've done is assert that other posters are wrong. Could you provide the correct information then?
and what did you add to the debate? yeah thats right, absolutely nothing. nada.
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Old 18th September 2013, 11:55 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
and what did you add to the debate? yeah thats right, absolutely nothing. nada.
Did you have any information? I didn't claim to. I didn't claim without evidence that other posters were wrong or claim to have better knowledge on the situation.

I'm trying to find out information. If you want to attack me for it that's fine, but it makes you look like an ideologue ready to dismiss any criticism.
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Old 18th September 2013, 11:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Did you have any information? I didn't claim to. I didn't claim without evidence that other posters were wrong or claim to have better knowledge on the situation.

I'm trying to find out information. If you want to attack me for it that's fine, but it makes you look like an ideologue ready to dismiss any criticism.
well all we know is that one side claims its incompetence and corruption and the other side claims its a conspiracy.
and considering history, both claims seem plausible.
you are not trying to find out information, you merely attacked another poster for atacking another poster, and i attack you for it. get over it and try to really find information instead of pretending to.
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Old 18th September 2013, 12:15 PM   #54
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The problem is not so much that Venezuela has a left wing government, but that it has a incompetent Left Wing government.
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Old 18th September 2013, 12:19 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The problem is not so much that Venezuela has a left wing government, but that it has a incompetent Left Wing government.
The only thing worse than morons in charge (PIIGS) are morons who believe they're correct (Venezuela)
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Old 18th September 2013, 12:21 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
well all we know is that one side claims its incompetence and corruption and the other side claims its a conspiracy.
and considering history, both claims seem plausible.
you are not trying to find out information, you merely attacked another poster for atacking another poster, and i attack you for it. get over it and try to really find information instead of pretending to.
No, I want actual information. A poster claimed to be a source of that better information yet didn't provide it. I was working under the assumption that their distaste for the other poster was simply over riding their posts so that they simply forgot to put the information in. I was therefor trying to be deliberately polite. I'm trying to find real information.

That you find that to be an attack is a very strong indication that you're letting other factors over ride the facts. But then again, you don't seem to care about facts in the first place.
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Old 18th September 2013, 12:27 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Did you have any information on the rolling blackouts, their causes, effects, or contributing factors?

So far all you've done is assert that other posters are wrong. Could you provide the correct information then?
In a nutshell, the power industry has been almost completely nationalized and the lack of investment and maintenance have render some 40% of the installed power capacity unavailable. The country is importing power from Colombia (a few years ago, the were exporting instead) but they have to agree levels and pay for it in advance -they hadn't bought any foreign power for three days when the last massive blackout happened-. This last massive blackout was different than those of 2010. Then, a long lasting drought got Guri dam -which is the third largest hydroelectric power station in the World, only smaller than Chinese Three Gorges and Brazilian/Paraguayan Itaipú- with alarming low levels of water. Today the dam is some 25 metres above that and operating safely (but 8 or 9 of its 20 turbines are being repaired, when 2 or 3 is normal). The current blackouts relate mainly to highest voltage transmission lines, the kind of fail that can be caused by an iron chain thrown over the lines (highly improbable) or the perennial lack of maintenance and corrupt contractual practices (highly probable). I imagine that governmental ukases decreeing that such and such power must be available here and there turn the system more prone to cascading failures, but of this I have no evidence other than the involved people having the physique du rôle.

About the specific subjects of this thread there's a lot of info available on the web, surely even in English, as some conferences have been held to analyse this problem since September 3rd.

My objection related to ignorance is not about the ignorance of the Venezuelan power system -every meaning- as nobody has to be an specialist on everything after all, but about the puerile Cold War like approach to politics from moral hemiplegics who cast Venezuelan government as socialist and socialism as evil the same way that 25 years ago they could have cast German Democratic Republic as democratic and democracy as evil in an equally dumb fashion.
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Old 18th September 2013, 12:46 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
No, I want actual information. A poster claimed to be a source of that better information yet didn't provide it. I was working under the assumption that their distaste for the other poster was simply over riding their posts so that they simply forgot to put the information in. I was therefor trying to be deliberately polite. I'm trying to find real information.

That you find that to be an attack is a very strong indication that you're letting other factors over ride the facts. But then again, you don't seem to care about facts in the first place.
got any facts then? got any evidence that i do not care for facts?
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Old 18th September 2013, 01:22 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
In a nutshell, the power industry has been almost completely nationalized and the lack of investment and maintenance have render some 40% of the installed power capacity unavailable. The country is importing power from Colombia (a few years ago, the were exporting instead) but they have to agree levels and pay for it in advance -they hadn't bought any foreign power for three days when the last massive blackout happened-. This last massive blackout was different than those of 2010. Then, a long lasting drought got Guri dam -which is the third largest hydroelectric power station in the World, only smaller than Chinese Three Gorges and Brazilian/Paraguayan Itaipú- with alarming low levels of water. Today the dam is some 25 metres above that and operating safely (but 8 or 9 of its 20 turbines are being repaired, when 2 or 3 is normal). The current blackouts relate mainly to highest voltage transmission lines, the kind of fail that can be caused by an iron chain thrown over the lines (highly improbable) or the perennial lack of maintenance and corrupt contractual practices (highly probable). I imagine that governmental ukases decreeing that such and such power must be available here and there turn the system more prone to cascading failures, but of this I have no evidence other than the involved people having the physique du rôle.

About the specific subjects of this thread there's a lot of info available on the web, surely even in English, as some conferences have been held to analyse this problem since September 3rd.
That seems to be good information and matches what I've found on the subject. Thank you.

Quote:
My objection related to ignorance is not about the ignorance of the Venezuelan power system -every meaning- as nobody has to be an specialist on everything after all, but about the puerile Cold War like approach to politics from moral hemiplegics who cast Venezuelan government as socialist and socialism as evil the same way that 25 years ago they could have cast German Democratic Republic as democratic and democracy as evil in an equally dumb fashion.
I had the feeling that the heated exchange had little to do with the power outages themselves, but that you also had good information on those as well. These exchanges get so heated at times that the noise to information ratio goes pear shaped.
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Old 18th September 2013, 01:26 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
got any facts then? got any evidence that i do not care for facts?
I already told you I didn't have facts, not any that haven't already been presented in the thread anyway. The evidence that you don't care for them is that not only do you dismiss those facts that aren't convenient for your ideological outlook, but you view asking for information surrounding those facts as an attack.

I know you're used to Virus, but I'm not him.
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Old 18th September 2013, 01:56 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I already told you I didn't have facts, not any that haven't already been presented in the thread anyway. The evidence that you don't care for them is that not only do you dismiss those facts that aren't convenient for your ideological outlook, but you view asking for information surrounding those facts as an attack.

I know you're used to Virus, but I'm not him.
so in other words you do not have any evidence that i do not care for facts.
why make up such nonsense claims then?
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Old 18th September 2013, 02:04 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
so in other words you do not have any evidence that i do not care for facts.
why make up such nonsense claims then?
As I said, you dismiss that which is incontinent for you. This is just another example.

This is not productive in the least. If you have nothing to add on the topic then I have nothing more to add off the topic, which I shouldn't have addressed anyway.
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Old 18th September 2013, 02:14 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
As I said, you dismiss that which is incontinent for you. This is just another example.

This is not productive in the least. If you have nothing to add on the topic then I have nothing more to add off the topic, which I shouldn't have addressed anyway.
wich facts did i dismiss?
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Old 19th September 2013, 03:42 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
well all we know is that one side claims its incompetence and corruption and the other side claims its a conspiracy.
and considering history, both claims seem plausible.
you are not trying to find out information, you merely attacked another poster for atacking another poster, and i attack you for it. get over it and try to really find information instead of pretending to.
Are you back to being a conspiracy theorist? I thought you grew up?

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Old 19th September 2013, 04:02 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
Are you back to being a conspiracy theorist? I thought you grew up?

no im not, but considering the history of the CIA , it would not come as a suprise if it turns out they are indeed involved. we will knoow in some 60 years i guess.
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Old 19th September 2013, 12:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
no im not, but considering the history of the CIA , it would not come as a suprise if it turns out they are indeed involved. we will knoow in some 60 years i guess.
So you are slipping back to being a CT fantasist. Blame everyone else for Venezuelas problems instead of the main protagonists.
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Old 19th September 2013, 01:50 PM   #67
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Regardless of the pros and cons of their ideology,the Venezuelan leadership has proven itself to be pretty incompetent.
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Old 19th September 2013, 04:05 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
So you are slipping back to being a CT fantasist. Blame everyone else for Venezuelas problems instead of the main protagonists.
nope incompetence and corruption seems just as plausible. as i said before.
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Old 20th September 2013, 02:46 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
nope incompetence and corruption seems just as plausible. as i said before.
Not plausible. It is proven they are corrupt and incompetent.

You only have to look at what they did with the oil industry. Blaming CIA for the current issues is complete fantasy land stuff.
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Old 20th September 2013, 03:01 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
Not plausible. It is proven they are corrupt and incompetent.

You only have to look at what they did with the oil industry. Blaming CIA for the current issues is complete fantasy land stuff.
lucky i didn't blame them.
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Old 20th September 2013, 03:04 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
lucky i didn't blame them.
You said it was plausible. Welcome to Fantasy island!
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Old 20th September 2013, 03:22 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by funk de fino View Post
You said it was plausible. Welcome to Fantasy island!
well considering history, yes ist very plausible. Ist not like the CIA would never ever do something like that.
but yeah the Venezuelan government has also a history of incompetence and corruption.
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Old 20th September 2013, 03:55 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
well considering history, yes ist very plausible. Ist not like the CIA would never ever do something like that.
but yeah the Venezuelan government has also a history of incompetence and corruption.
Why exactly would CIA want Venzuela to suffer a blackout? What's the gain here?

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Old 20th September 2013, 03:58 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Why exactly would CIA want Venzuela to suffer a blackout? What's the gain here?

McHrozni
political unrest, possibly leading to a government Change, a more US friendly government in Venezuela. the usual stuff.
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Old 20th September 2013, 04:45 AM   #75
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When Maduro blames the US for the blackout, what's his evidence?

a) Personal observation.
b) Credible intelligence.
c) The lights going out.

I've got a feeling it's c.
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Old 20th September 2013, 06:18 AM   #76
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Quote:
For instance, you may learn that Columbia is the United States and not Colombia both in English and Spanish before posting messages like your #40
.
aleCcowan, can you explain what you mean by this sentence?

Other than that, thanks for your explaining some of the issues with the Venezuelan power grid.
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Old 20th September 2013, 06:43 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
.
aleCcowan, can you explain what you mean by this sentence?
I think he's just riffing on a spelling error. The country is "Colombia", with an "o". Various US cities, a space shuttle, and a river are "Columbia", with a "u".
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Old 20th September 2013, 07:02 AM   #78
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Columbia.

Perverting the name "America" was a cultural development in the 1800s. It's not that they're not American, but as I answered many a time in Europe: "-Are you American? -Yes, I'm Argentine".

On Merriam-Webster's. On American Heritage Dictionary and Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary as shown in Farlex' Free Dictionary.
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Last edited by aleCcowaN; 20th September 2013 at 08:24 AM. Reason: grammar and adding dictionary
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Old 20th September 2013, 10:33 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
political unrest, possibly leading to a government Change, a more US friendly government in Venezuela. the usual stuff.
And a massive blackout acomplishes that how, exactly?

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Old 20th September 2013, 11:48 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
And a massive blackout acomplishes that how, exactly?

McHrozni
It's the underpants gnome theory of CIA plots.

1) cause blackouts
2) ???
3) Pro-USA coup
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