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Old 25th January 2017, 02:49 AM   #401
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Because it's all about him.
No one cares, the US don't want you.
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Old 25th January 2017, 09:40 PM   #402
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Last time I checked, the US had pretty clearly signaled a lack of interest in extraditing Assange. In my opinion, this is all a cheap attempt at misdirection, to try to trick people into thinking the extradition to Sweden for rape is actually an extradition to the US for civil disobedience. Even though it's an extradition to Sweden for rape.
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Old 25th January 2017, 09:43 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Last time I checked, the US had pretty clearly signaled a lack of interest in extraditing Assange. In my opinion, this is all a cheap attempt at misdirection, to try to trick people into thinking the extradition to Sweden for rape is actually an extradition to the US for civil disobedience. Even though it's an extradition to Sweden for rape.
Is it formally a charge of rape now? Last I heard it was for questioning
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Old 25th January 2017, 09:55 PM   #404
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If any body hasn't got over this, then they need to be raped in the mouth.

George Flynn. 2016





Deal.
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Old 25th January 2017, 10:17 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Is it formally a charge of rape now? Last I heard it was for questioning
Please forgive my shorthand. And read the threads. Actually the Swedish system of jurisprudence is paced and sequenced somewhat differently from the US one. As I understand it, the type of questioning the Swedes wish to conduct is carried out much later in the process, and is one of the final steps before formally charging Assange. It has far graver implications than the "person of interest, don't leave town" kind of questioning that US authorities would perform early in an investigation, long before they start filing charges.

But yes, fair enough: Assange has not yet been formally charged with rape.

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Old 25th January 2017, 10:19 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
If any body hasn't got over this, then they need to be raped in the mouth.

George Flynn. 2016





Deal.
What are you talking about?
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:19 AM   #407
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The Swedish prosecutors have closed the investigation, and will cancel the arrest warrant. No details yet, but there will be a press conference later today.
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Old 19th May 2017, 02:20 AM   #408
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Charges against Assange have been dropped:

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/www.bbc...s/amp/39973864


ETA: wait, I may have meant that the investigation has been dropped because I am not sure if there have been charges pressed against him. Anyway, presumably he doesn't need to be extradited to Sweden now and ... presumably ....

He is free to leave the Ecuadorian embassy and he won't be snatched the moment he walks out the door.

Presumably...

Is that going to happen or is it likely he will be arrested on another pretext?
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:00 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Is that going to happen or is it likely he will be arrested on another pretext?
Well, he still jumped bail.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:17 AM   #410
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he needs to get out and face the bail-skipping charge asap and get the hell out of the uk before there actually is an extradition request from the usa (pretty sure there have been murmurings of an indictment in the US under the new 'administration')
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:16 AM   #411
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Quote:
Now prosecutor Marianne Ny states that investigations against Julian Assange are being put down.

In her case, she writes all the possibilities for her investigation to be closed is over - something she also said on Friday's press meeting.

"I have today decided to cancel the Stockholm District Court's decision on November 18, 2010, on the detention of Julian Assange in his absence and to revoke the European arrest warrant," says Marianne Ny.

She explained that she and her colleagues did what they could.

"Of course, we have been faced with many choices in this long time and many considerations have been made. I can not summarize the results of our efforts other than we did what we could.

But if Julian Assange was to go to Sweden before 2020, when the rape allegations will be prescribed by stature of limitations, the pre-trial investigation can be resumed, says the prosecutor.

British journalists also asked about the cost of Swedish and British authorities during the long investigation.

"The cost was not a factor that affected the decision to close the preliminary investigation," says Marianne Ny.

The main reason for the investigation now is closed down is that Julian Assange has stayed away.

"The decision to close the preliminary investigation is not because we couldn't make a valuation - but because it is not possible to move on," says Marianne Ny.
https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/sw...ulian-assange/

Essentially they feel there's no hope that they will be able to formally charge and try him before the stature of limitations have passed. The decision to stop the investigation can be appealed by the alleged victim afaik. So it's not a question of lack of evidence to secure a conviction rather it's about the fact that he can't be prosecuted because he can't be detained.

Edit: from an NYT article:

Quote:
Marianne Ny, the chief prosecutor in Sweden, made clear that the authorities were not making a judgement of guilt or innocence in the case of Mr. Assange, but they felt that they had no choice but to abandon the investigation because they had concluded Ecuador would not cooperate, and all other possibilities had been exhausted.

“My assessment is that the transfer cannot be executed in the foreseeable future,” she said at a press conference in Stockholm.

The investigation could be reopened, she said, if Mr. Assange returned to Sweden before the statute of limitations elapsed in August 2020.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/w...eden-rape.html
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:42 AM   #412
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Not a rapist.
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Old 19th May 2017, 05:31 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I notice you cut the NYT paragraph short of this:
Quote:
Should Mr. Assange enter Sweden before August 2020, when the statute of limitations expires for the last remaining allegation, of minor rape, she said, the investigation could be reopened.
The guy's a creep but a woman who had previous sex with him, after finding out he was shagging another gal, claiming he managed to get it in before she woke up while she was sleeping with him, it's hard to take the charges seriously.

I know, the rest of you can think what you want, it's all been litigated in this thread. But I did want to point out the NYT called it "minor rape", not date rape, not wife rape, but "minor" rape. And Assange could not give his testimony without going to Sweden despite the fact the prosecutor could have just as easily (especially given all the money this must have cost taxpayers) gone to the UK to get his statement.

Serves him right he had to spend years under essential house arrest, but not because of the stated reason. Because he participated in giving us Trump.

This kind of thing is one reason real rape victims are not taken seriously.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:09 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I notice you cut the NYT paragraph short of this:

The guy's a creep but a woman who had previous sex with him, after finding out he was shagging another gal, claiming he managed to get it in before she woke up while she was sleeping with him, it's hard to take the charges seriously.

I know, the rest of you can think what you want, it's all been litigated in this thread. But I did want to point out the NYT called it "minor rape", not date rape, not wife rape, but "minor" rape. And Assange could not give his testimony without going to Sweden despite the fact the prosecutor could have just as easily (especially given all the money this must have cost taxpayers) gone to the UK to get his statement.

Serves him right he had to spend years under essential house arrest, but not because of the stated reason. Because he participated in giving us Trump.

This kind of thing is one reason real rape victims are not taken seriously.
And yet you continue to ignore pertinent details in order to repeat disproven talking points like 'just interview him his way'.

If this rape wasn't rape enough to let you call it 'real' rape, that says more about you. As described, a sex act was committed not only without consent, but with specific refusal. The word for that is 'rape'.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:43 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
And yet you continue to ignore pertinent details in order to repeat disproven talking points like 'just interview him his way'.
Needless to say, I disagree with said pertinent details just as you disagree with mine. The idea was to comment on the "minor rape" left out of the quote without rehashing what has already been said ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
If this rape wasn't rape enough to let you call it 'real' rape, that says more about you. As described, a sex act was committed not only without consent, but with specific refusal. The word for that is 'rape'.
I don't believe the woman, am I obligated to?

Neither of the women had a problem until they found out about each other. And not waking up when someone is attempting sex with you, puhleese, it is not credible.

Had the accuser said, I awoke and tried to push him away... that would be different.

When are we allowed to not believe the accuser? I'm quite generous with siding with the accuser. This one was one time the evidence was not on the accuser's side.

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Old 19th May 2017, 08:37 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
....
I know, the rest of you can think what you want, it's all been litigated in this thread. But I did want to point out the NYT called it "minor rape", not date rape, not wife rape, but "minor" rape.
....
Just a question here: Is it possible that "minor rape" is actually the allegation under Swedish law, just as we have multiple levels of assault and other crimes? I doubt that the NYT decides for itself whether rape is "minor" or not.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:47 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just a question here: Is it possible that "minor rape" is actually the allegation under Swedish law, just as we have multiple levels of assault and other crimes? I doubt that the NYT decides for itself whether rape is "minor" or not.
"minor rape" is what Roman Polanski committed.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:51 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just a question here: Is it possible that "minor rape" is actually the allegation under Swedish law, just as we have multiple levels of assault and other crimes? I doubt that the NYT decides for itself whether rape is "minor" or not.
Is it possible that people's despise of Assange is coloring their assessment of the charge?

Is it possible a couple of pissed off women seek revenge?
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:53 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
"minor rape" is what Roman Polanski committed.
Really? So Polanski is charged with sex with an adult woman while he was sleeping with her, and she was a credible witness?
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:42 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
So it's not a question of lack of evidence to secure a conviction rather it's about the fact that he can't be prosecuted because he can't be detained.
To my knowledge this is disputable, at least from what I got from the various article on CNN. Now it could be that the prosecutor had evidence he was withdrawing, but all what was cited are the condom, and one of the women stance that they did not want to have sex, without explicitly saying yes/no (which is regarded as sexual assault in Sweden AFAIK). I am not saying he is innocent, I am just saying from public info, there is not much physical evidence either way, innocence, or culpability (in fact if you ask me, after hearing interview and felt how slimy he was I think he is guilty, and that was confirmed by him escaping into the embassy, but what I think and evidence is another thing, and justice don't rely on feeling). And the prosecutor could have interrogated him in the embassy, but never did it to my knowledge.

It stinks that it was dropped though.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:44 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is it possible that people's despise of Assange is coloring their assessment of the charge?

Is it possible a couple of pissed off women seek revenge?
Both are possible.... But him escaping into Ecuador agency is also a factor, rather than face his accusers in a court of law, isn't it ?
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:47 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
And yet you continue to ignore pertinent details in order to repeat disproven talking points like 'just interview him his way'.

If this rape wasn't rape enough to let you call it 'real' rape, that says more about you. As described, a sex act was committed not only without consent, but with specific refusal. The word for that is 'rape'.
There was no explicit refusal. From what was written in the press at least, "miss A" reported he started fondling her, she stiffened, but she did not explicitly say no, which would have made it explicitly rape. But neither did she say yes, which is considered a crime in Sweden.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:50 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is it possible that people's despise of Assange is coloring their assessment of the charge?

Is it possible a couple of pissed off women seek revenge?
Based on this 2010 account, it looks like the allegations might be more complex than you seem to think. If college women made similar claims about a frat boy, you would probably take them more seriously.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...assange-sweden

In any case, Assange might have been cleared after a complete investigation. But he skipped the country without even talking to the cops. That doesn't speak well of him.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:52 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Really? So Polanski is charged with sex with an adult woman while he was sleeping with her, and she was a credible witness?
I think the post was a play on the different meanings of "minor."
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:00 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is it possible that people's despise of Assange is coloring their assessment of the charge?

Is it possible a couple of pissed off women seek revenge?
This is without doubt. Assange has uncovered some very inconvenient truths about the US. The hatred of Assange by many in the US has led to this feral reaction.
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Old 19th May 2017, 11:06 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I think the post was a play on the different meanings of "minor."
That. and illuminating for that reason that no society with a Western social and legal system would have an offence "Minor Rape" meaning anything other than rape of a minor.
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:31 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is it possible that people's despise of Assange is coloring their assessment of the charge?

Is it possible a couple of pissed off women seek revenge?
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
This is without doubt. Assange has uncovered some very inconvenient truths about the US. The hatred of Assange by many in the US has led to this feral reaction.
Indeed, but let's not kid ourselves: It most certainly goes both ways.
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Old 20th May 2017, 01:49 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
This is without doubt. Assange has uncovered some very inconvenient truths about the US. The hatred of Assange by many in the US has led to this feral reaction.
He's also uncovered some very inconvenient truths about Julian Assange and Wikileaks. I despise him, but not because I can't accept inconvenient truths. I don't know if the women's claims are true, but it sure as heck wouldn't surprise me if they were.
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Old 20th May 2017, 02:20 AM   #429
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So wait a minute, Julian Assange and that Chelsea Manning are free? Thanks Obama!
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Old 20th May 2017, 05:35 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Needless to say, I disagree with said pertinent details just as you disagree with mine.
Oh no, no, no. You don't just disagree with the details here, you're denying facts. The fact is that it would not be 'easy' for them interview him. You contend it would be but that's a flat out lie and the reason for it has been explained over and over. You can believe it doesn't matter, but the fact is that it does very much matter. You can disagree that it matters, but that's not just a matter of opinion but of legal fact.

My objection to your nonsesne is not on equal footing with your disagreement with legal fact. It's not two equal opinions.

Quote:
The idea was to comment on the "minor rape" left out of the quote without rehashing what has already been said ad nauseum.
Then you should have stuck to commenting on that. But you did not. Don't want to rehash it? The easy way to do that is not bring it up yourself. Saying, 'I don't want to talk about this but I'm right' isn't going to deter a skeptic from addressing it.

Quote:
I don't believe the woman, am I obligated to?

Neither of the women had a problem until they found out about each other. And not waking up when someone is attempting sex with you, puhleese, it is not credible.

Had the accuser said, I awoke and tried to push him away... that would be different.

When are we allowed to not believe the accuser? I'm quite generous with siding with the accuser. This one was one time the evidence was not on the accuser's side.
I'm drastically uninterested in your evaluation of if you think they are credible because you've shown an extreme unwillingness to ever change your mind about such things (do you still think men's erections are under their conscious control still?), but when you espouse the idea that the things described aren't 'real rape', I'm going to object for the benefit of the lurkers.

What was described, if true, was rape. Whether you believe the allegations or not, what was described was rape.

Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
There was no explicit refusal. From what was written in the press at least, "miss A" reported he started fondling her, she stiffened, but she did not explicitly say no, which would have made it explicitly rape. But neither did she say yes, which is considered a crime in Sweden.
There was explicit refusal to have sex without a condom, which he did anyway. That's a sex act that was explicitly refused but done. You know, rape.
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:10 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just a question here: Is it possible that "minor rape" is actually the allegation under Swedish law, just as we have multiple levels of assault and other crimes? I doubt that the NYT decides for itself whether rape is "minor" or not.
Quite likely that's what they meant. I haven't seen or heard what they exactly said but in Sweden criminal offences often come in three degrees of severity: petty/minor, normal and aggravated.

Although it's still called rape ("våldtäkt" in Swedish) it's possible to be sentenced for the less serious offense which has a prison sentence of at most four years but also allows for probation or a suspended sentence since it has no explicit minimum. By contrast being convicted of and sentenced for "normal" rape has a sentence of at least two years and at most six years.

The maximum length of the prison sentence for the specific criminal offenses is important because the stature of limitations is related to it, although both of these offenses lapse ten years after the alleged crime.
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:54 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Both are possible.... But him escaping into Ecuador agency is also a factor, rather than face his accusers in a court of law, isn't it ?
It's plausible Assange feared the extradition he cited. To dismiss that goes back to that dislike of Assange bias.
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:57 PM   #433
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Based on this 2010 account, it looks like the allegations might be more complex than you seem to think. If college women made similar claims about a frat boy, you would probably take them more seriously.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...assange-sweden

In any case, Assange might have been cleared after a complete investigation. But he skipped the country without even talking to the cops. That doesn't speak well of him.
We've been over all this, no need to rinse and repeat a gazillion and one times. And I am very familiar with the entire case from the aggressive prosecutor to the request Assange get an HIV test when the ladies found out they were both screwing Assange.

I merely pointed out new information, the news media labeled it "minor rape" and that was conveniently left out of the quote.
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Old 20th May 2017, 06:58 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I think the post was a play on the different meanings of "minor."
Whatever.
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Old 20th May 2017, 07:01 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
This is without doubt. Assange has uncovered some very inconvenient truths about the US. The hatred of Assange by many in the US has led to this feral reaction.
I'm just trying to look at the actual case. The guy's a total creep. I find him repulsive.

But give me a break, the rape allegations were incredibly problematic. I want to keep my record of believing the accusers clean and not sully it up with this case.
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Old 20th May 2017, 07:07 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Oh no, no, no. You don't just disagree with the details here, you're denying facts.
Bull! Every one of your 'facts' was addressed in the past discussions.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
The fact is that it would not be 'easy' for them interview him. You contend it would be but that's a flat out lie and the reason for it has been explained over and over. You can believe it doesn't matter, but the fact is that it does very much matter. You can disagree that it matters, but that's not just a matter of opinion but of legal fact.
And yet the prosecutors interviewed other defendants outside of Sweden.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
My objection to your nonsesne is not on equal footing with your disagreement with legal fact. It's not two equal opinions.
Ditto, back at cha.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Then you should have stuck to commenting on that. But you did not. Don't want to rehash it? The easy way to do that is not bring it up yourself. Saying, 'I don't want to talk about this but I'm right' isn't going to deter a skeptic from addressing it.
I did, I said here's what I'm commenting on that is new, the rest has been discussed ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I'm drastically uninterested in your evaluation of if you think they are credible because you've shown an extreme unwillingness to ever change your mind about such things (do you still think men's erections are under their conscious control still?), but when you espouse the idea that the things described aren't 'real rape', I'm going to object for the benefit of the lurkers.
Whatever, it's your prerogative.

Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
What was described, if true, was rape. Whether you believe the allegations or not, what was described was rape.
What was described was not credible for many reasons.
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:34 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's plausible Assange feared the extradition he cited. To dismiss that goes back to that dislike of Assange bias.
What extradition?
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Old 20th May 2017, 08:57 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What extradition?
The extradition to Guantanamo.
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Old 20th May 2017, 11:34 PM   #439
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A seven-year miscarriage of justice that has still not come to an end.

Why the The Land of the Free wants to kill journalists:

Getting Assange: the Untold Story

by John Pilger
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Old 21st May 2017, 12:25 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
A seven-year miscarriage of justice that has still not come to an end.

Why the The Land of the Free wants to kill journalists:

Getting Assange: the Untold Story

by John Pilger
What happened to him? Didn't he once have a reputation as a serious journalist?
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