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Tags cars

View Poll Results: Driverless cars will become mandatory by 2050
Yes they will 29 23.77%
No they won't 56 45.90%
It will take longer 20 16.39%
Your poll options suck 35 28.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 24th March 2017, 09:11 PM   #281
badnewsBH
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
Fence sitter eh?

Not really, no. Personally, I like the idea of self-driving vehicles. I just don't dismiss the concerns that might naturally come up where systems like these are involved.

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Their concerns are selfish bull, same people who sit around worried Obama is tapping their phone.

I don't think it's "selfish bull" to worry about the safety of new technology, or at least the application of technology in a new way. Of course, there are selfish reasons for not wanting self-driving cars, personal safety being one of them, but I think it's a valid concern.

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Name a real concern, then before you post it, go research if the community has addressed it to your liking before you post a reply! Good luck!

I have: making sure the system works, and is safe from external tampering from hackers and the like. I've little doubt that those working on the vehicles have and will continue to develop ways to deal with these issues, and to address the concerns of the public. Again, I think the technology is very promising, but I know how hesitant people can be to adopt something that's truly new, especially something like this.
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Old 24th March 2017, 09:25 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by badnewsBH View Post
Not really, no. Personally, I like the idea of self-driving vehicles. I just don't dismiss the concerns that might naturally come up where systems like these are involved.




I don't think it's "selfish bull" to worry about the safety of new technology, or at least the application of technology in a new way. Of course, there are selfish reasons for not wanting self-driving cars, personal safety being one of them, but I think it's a valid concern.




I have: making sure the system works, and is safe from external tampering from hackers and the like. I've little doubt that those working on the vehicles have and will continue to develop ways to deal with these issues, and to address the concerns of the public. Again, I think the technology is very promising, but I know how hesitant people can be to adopt something that's truly new, especially something like this.
It's very difficult making such a system work under ideal conditions
Add in rain, snow, wind, sandstorms, fog, heavy dew, animals (from moose to bear to deer to Jackrabbits, from the crayfish migrations in Louisiana to the tarantula migrations in the Pecos Valley of New Mexico( messy and slippery)), human pedestrians...
There's a thousand and one things that can go wrong. Humans can deal.pretty well with most of them, whereas a robot will be stymied.
The last 5% Costs as much or more than the first 95%...
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Old 24th March 2017, 09:31 PM   #283
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I'd rather spend the money on a series of tubes like in Futurama.
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Old 24th March 2017, 09:46 PM   #284
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Would you even need to legislate self driven cars off the roads? Would insuarnce premiums do it? You could further discourage drivers by increased traffic fines. Or how about the driverless autos snitching on speeders and red light runners?
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Old 24th March 2017, 09:53 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Would you even need to legislate self driven cars off the roads? Would insuarnce premiums do it? You could further discourage drivers by increased traffic fines. Or how about the driverless autos snitching on speeders and red light runners?
Robot snitches get glitches.
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Old 24th March 2017, 09:53 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
It's very difficult making such a system work under ideal conditions
Add in rain, snow, wind, sandstorms, fog, heavy dew, animals (from moose to bear to deer to Jackrabbits, from the crayfish migrations in Louisiana to the tarantula migrations in the Pecos Valley of New Mexico( messy and slippery)), human pedestrians...
There's a thousand and one things that can go wrong. Humans can deal.pretty well with most of them, whereas a robot will be stymied.
The last 5% Costs as much or more than the first 95%...
And we could point out all the ways in which human drivers fail too but very quickly machines will overtake us in ability to navigate the roads safely. These systems have much more potential for improvement than we have.

And tnis is not going to happen all at once either. We are going to see more and more driver assistance technologies that intervene for emergency braking and handle mundane exercises like parking.
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Old 24th March 2017, 10:00 PM   #287
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I'm willing to give up my own masterful expert driving if it's necessary to stop everyone else doing their idiotic maniac driving. Ugh, the way everyone else but me drives is terrible. And your hairstyle choices! Seriously, are mirrors crazy expensive or something? Robot cars tomorrow, then we'll tackle the hair.
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Old 24th March 2017, 10:06 PM   #288
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Is good hair styling as complex as negotiating public roads without running down pedestrians? Why not do robot hair dressers at the same time?
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Old 25th March 2017, 12:02 AM   #289
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How does this thread differ from the other one on driverless cars?
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:00 AM   #290
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500 pages of detailed, well researched arguments as to why automated cars will not and should not become mandatory, all of them ignored and here we go with another thread. I'll not be wasting my time.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:14 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
These cars won't prevent traffic jams.
a) Yes they will. I got a google search for ya... "driverless cars traffic jams think tank" b) even if they didn't we can save a million lives a year worldwide. So, I only give you points for attempting to make a point.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:25 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by badnewsBH View Post
Not really, no. Personally, I like the idea of self-driving vehicles. I just don't dismiss the concerns that might naturally come up where systems like these are involved.
Excuse my brutish response because I don't mean to assume that anyone knows anything close to as much as me on these issues but to reiterate my overarching argument, instead of just sitting there and JAQ'ing off, how about you do your due diligence and at least try to research what the community is doing already to address these concerns before you start complaining that they aren't being addressed, or how they might not? What if a doctor doesn't wash his hands before he operates on me?

Quote:
I don't think it's "selfish bull" to worry about the safety of new technology, or at least the application of technology in a new way. Of course, there are selfish reasons for not wanting self-driving cars, personal safety being one of them, but I think it's a valid concern.
Of course it's a valid concern but if you just take a quick look at the arguments happening around in this debate on the internet, it's selfish bull. Oh what if they make driverless mandatory and I can't go off road anymore? Dumb ****. What if it penalizes poor people. With auto taxis it will make movement cheaper than uber. Dumb, selfish, unimaginative, soul-killing nonsense. I only get to say this because they persist with their ****** attitudes even in the face of think tank study after university statement after government mandate.

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I know how hesitant people can be to adopt something that's truly new, especially something like this.
Mollycoddling people is so last century.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:36 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
When I drive, I have some input into risk decisions. As I get better at it, my risk tolerance goes down and I drive better, more carefully.

Being able to make choices is about freedom. Your OP is an appeal to fear.
Darth, if every driver on the road was as good at driving vehicles as you, I wouldn't be arguing for this legislation. I'm not worried about giving my kid the keys to my car because you're out there on the road buddy. There are GHOULS out there man... now THAT is an appeal to fear.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:43 AM   #294
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I'm not even allowed to take my pants off in public and go skinny dipping at the beach if I don't have a bathing suit and I don't want to walk around in wet undies after. And you people are crying about the ability to command a light tank at seventy miles an hour when there are idiots, drunks, mentally ill and people having heart attacks also driving light tanks (that occasionally careen off the road and kill people watching netflix in their living room). Let's start a tally on how many people have had medical emergencies behind the wheel and plowed into a bunch of people enjoying beer on the patio or walking down the street.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:52 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
I'm not even allowed to take my pants off in public
I imagine that would be more traumatic for all those involved than any number of human-driven automobiles.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:54 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
I prefer the freedom to make choices and decisions.
And I actually wholeheartedly know how you feel and I would support what you say except for the fact that we share the road with people who are the opposite of you and sometimes those people run over our kids in the street. Fear based arguments are good right?
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If that freedom carries risk, so be it, and that's why there is education and training.
Pfft decades of improvement of education and training and 33 000 dead on the roads in the US a year. Pathetic.
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It's part of being something other than an ant in a colony.
Yeah I bet you run red lights all the time, speed, and never use your flasher when you change lanes.... give me a *********** break dog....

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If you drive smart, your risk goes down.
If you don't, your risk goes up.
You are as vulnerable to getting t-boned as the next person. A story I know, a man watched his pregnant wife get run over by a red light runner, that day, I decided to go to war against anyone who was against mandatory driverless cars.
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Old 25th March 2017, 04:00 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
It's very difficult making such a system work under ideal conditions
Add in rain, snow, wind, sandstorms, fog, heavy dew, animals (from moose to bear to deer to Jackrabbits, from the crayfish migrations in Louisiana to the tarantula migrations in the Pecos Valley of New Mexico( messy and slippery)), human pedestrians...
There's a thousand and one things that can go wrong. Humans can deal.pretty well with most of them, whereas a robot will be stymied.
The last 5% Costs as much or more than the first 95%...
Have you ever heard of economy of scale, moore's law or the fact that the consensus of the community is that we will get there eventually? If it's 2020 or 2030 or 2040, I don't give a ****. This is a war.
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Old 25th March 2017, 04:02 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Would you even need to legislate self driven cars off the roads? Would insuarnce premiums do it? You could further discourage drivers by increased traffic fines. Or how about the driverless autos snitching on speeders and red light runners?
These are good ideas for what will be a lengthy transition period.
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Old 25th March 2017, 04:05 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Seriously, are mirrors crazy expensive or something?
Made my day.... I can go to sleep now. Well,, not before I swipe my way through my gallery of Elon Musk shots with a t-shirt on.
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Old 25th March 2017, 04:06 AM   #300
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BTW, it's 2017 and this study is from 2010 so, safely...

A TRILLION *********** DOLLARS A *********** YEAR

Have a nice day.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:57 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
These are good ideas for what will be a lengthy transition period.
Do have a car with driver assistance features? Wth a bit more money I would consider a Subaru with their Eyesight tech.
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Old 25th March 2017, 08:27 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
a) Yes they will. I got a google search for ya... "driverless cars traffic jams think tank" b) even if they didn't we can save a million lives a year worldwide. So, I only give you points for attempting to make a point.
That's crap. It's very easy to imagine scenarios where traffic jams are formed with driverless cars. Let's start with something childishly simple. Imagine a giant sheep herd crossing and loitering on the road. Now imagine a giant jam of driverless cars waiting, sitting, waiting, sitting...
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Old 25th March 2017, 08:33 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That's crap. It's very easy to imagine scenarios where traffic jams are formed with driverless cars. Let's start with something childishly simple. Imagine a giant sheep herd crossing and loitering on the road. Now imagine a giant jam of driverless cars waiting, sitting, waiting, sitting...
You don't get it. In the future the cars would fly over the sheep, or teleport. In the future everything is possible and only just around the metaphorical corner.
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Old 25th March 2017, 08:52 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
Have you ever heard of economy of scale, moore's law or the fact that the consensus of the community is that we will get there eventually? If it's 2020 or 2030 or 2040, I don't give a ****. This is a war.
Economy of scale does not have a godsdamned thing to do with overcoming technical insufficiencies
Reality does not give a damn about " the consensus of the community"
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Old 25th March 2017, 02:22 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That's crap. It's very easy to imagine scenarios where traffic jams are formed with driverless cars.
BAHAHAHA this is why think tanks have a place in the world, cause people bloviating about what they can imagine is a really *********** boring way to spend your day. Whilst it is possible for the boffins in Mckinsey to turn out total nonsense, generally that doesn't happen.
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Let's start with something childishly simple. Imagine a giant sheep herd crossing and loitering on the road. Now imagine a giant jam of driverless cars waiting, sitting, waiting, sitting.
We all know that sheep herds are a major cause of traffic jams in real people's lives... laughing my ass off
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Old 25th March 2017, 02:23 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Economy of scale does not have a godsdamned thing to do with overcoming technical insufficiencies
Reality does not give a damn about " the consensus of the community"
Are you a pretend expert too? Are you an "engineer" so we should listen to you about how this is not real?
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Old 25th March 2017, 02:28 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Do have a car with driver assistance features? Wth a bit more money I would consider a Subaru with their Eyesight tech.
I rent cars, pretty much they all have safety features too complicated for me to understand but would probably save my life. Average person doesn't get these features.
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Old 25th March 2017, 02:48 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
With massively reduced insurance costs and fuel economy due to perfect acceleration rates and more efficient travel times due to lack of traffic jams... it is going to save money.....
But that wasn't actually the question. The question was what the cars will cost. It is, of course, quite possible that when you tally up the cost of the car, the cost of the insurance, the cost of your own health insurance, tax benefits, and whatnot, the overall cost will be less. But not all those costs are distributed in ways that are the same, and the theoretical cost saving depends on the degree to which we can trust the insurance companies to pass their savings on, governments to pass their savings on, and so forth. And, of course, not all those costs are evenly distributed, nor are they all paid at the same time. Having driven for over 50 years without an accident, my insurance rates are relatively low. Overall, the savings might be very great indeed, but not necessarily for everyone. Saved time from traffic jams is a non issue for the rural driver. We don't have traffic jams around here. A poor person who pays little or no income tax will not see the same kind of saving as a richer person who pays for the social services that accidents strain. The saving may be very real in the general sense, but it's cold comfort if it comes in the form of a car so expensive you cannot buy one. In the mean time, though, we are left with the question of what the cars themselves will cost. Who actually knows?
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Old 25th March 2017, 02:49 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
Are you a pretend expert too? Are you an "engineer" so we should listen to you about how this is not real?
Nope. A real one. Registered PE, mechanical.
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Old 25th March 2017, 03:44 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
BAHAHAHA this is why think tanks have a place in the world, cause people bloviating about what they can imagine is a really *********** boring way to spend your day. Whilst it is possible for the boffins in Mckinsey to turn out total nonsense, generally that doesn't happen.We all know that sheep herds are a major cause of traffic jams in real people's lives... laughing my ass off
Driverless cars are exactly like driven cars when it comes to being unable to drive through another car, a pedestrian or an object. Therefore, there absolutely will be spontaneous and unexpected traffic jams that occur with driverless cars.

The driverless car will stop because it cannot proceed and more driverless cars will stop behind that one and so on. That's a traffic jam, Joey.

You will even have traffic jams for "gapers" who are drivers slowing down to look at something interesting. People riding in these cars will force it to slow down so they can look at something going on, or look at, or look for anything that can be imagined. That forces following cars to slow down as well.

I can imagine computer networked cars reducing some slowdowns and jams, but they cannot be eliminated.
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Old 25th March 2017, 04:57 PM   #311
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Uber dumps auto-auto experiment because of crash.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techno...id=mailsignout
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:20 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Uber dumps auto-auto experiment because of crash.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techno...id=mailsignout
They have grounded the exercise pending investigation. It's even told in the headline.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:32 PM   #313
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As far as trafic jams go, I wonder if ordered trafic flow could be established by each car following simple rules that take into account of the positions and velocities of nearby vehicles. I am broadly thinking of emergence and complexity concepts that explain how schools of fish and flocks of birds display ordered behaviours. In addition cars could receive velocity information from nearby vehicles. Then there are the kinds of big-picture route advising and traffic jam avoidence systems we can already tap into with out internet connected GPS.

These kinds of systems might allow for people to be moved about at high speeds like data packets finding their most effiecient route to destination.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:43 PM   #314
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Car drivers are not like schools of fish or flocks of birds. Those have a common destination and a desire to stay together to avoid getting eaten by predators. Car drivers have different destinations and can change their minds about where to go and what to do at any moment.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:47 PM   #315
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Also fish and birds can bump into each other without causing wrecks, injuries/death, and expensive damage.
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Old 25th March 2017, 05:57 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Car drivers are not like schools of fish or flocks of birds. Those have a common destination and a desire to stay together to avoid getting eaten by predators. Car drivers have different destinations and can change their minds about where to go and what to do at any moment.
I did say I was speaking broadly. A quick search shows there are mathemticians looking at trafic movement problems from complexity and emergence angles.

Also in mind is the following study on traffic jams. It is surely hard not to see how concepts of emergence I mentioned could be used in a driverless system to rectify the problem.

https://phys.org/news/2007-12-traffi...maticians.html

Self organisationWP is the key concept here.
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Old 25th March 2017, 06:00 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
They have grounded the exercise pending investigation. It's even told in the headline.
Yes, that is correct. And they are having an investigation because of a crash. And the crash happened when the car was in auto-drive mode.

I only referenced it because I heard somewhere that this technology was supposed to be safe and prevent crashes.
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Old 25th March 2017, 06:07 PM   #318
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Sider, that's a particular kind of traffic jam. Think of a different kind.

A super popular sporting event with a parking lot and pedestrians walking all throughout the lot. A jam happens on various roads leading in because the cars all have to slow and do delicate maneuvers avoiding each other and people. Then some idiots start a fist fight and block an entrance road with tangled mayhem. How does the new system prevent the jams in that area? Who chooses the parking space - you or the computer?
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Old 25th March 2017, 06:07 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Yes, that is correct. And they are having an investigation because of a crash. And the crash happened when the car was in auto-drive mode.

I only referenced it because I heard somewhere that this technology was supposed to be safe and prevent crashes.
They didnt "dump" the program though did they. And you continue to be disengious here. Is this a high-school debate or a discussion of an emerging technology?
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Old 25th March 2017, 06:17 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Sider, that's a particular kind of traffic jam. Think of a different kind.

A super popular sporting event with a parking lot and pedestrians walking all throughout the lot. A jam happens on various roads leading in because the cars all have to slow and do delicate maneuvers avoiding each other and people. Then some idiots start a fist fight and block an entrance road with tangled mayhem. How does the new system prevent the jams in that area? Who chooses the parking space - you or the computer?
Are these not just challenges for ingenious engineering solutions rather than show stoppers? The automous vehicles will be following rules in a consitant fashion, unlike human drivers. Who parks first now? The most agressive driver perhaps. Who parks first in an autonomous system? The car searching for a park the longest? The closest by GPS measurement? The car that would turn right to enter the park? Set the strict rules and remove the disorder from eratic human behavior.
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