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#41 | ||
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,993
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Oh so he's not running a business huh? He is doing that using other people's money - just ask him if he is running a business. Asking someone who been running a business for thirty years - with no success at all - to see his books and view how he has allocated money received is normal, nay required.
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#42 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,416
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I'll ask him about safety concerns, but given that Mills theory says the hydrino is nothing more than a hydrogen atom, and given that there are no apparent ill effects from the testing done so far, I don't think any regulatory agencies will do anything beyond the standard safety mandates that are required for any other kind of generator.
Mills theory does not say the hydrino is a novel type of gas so far as the universe is concerned. According to Mills theory, the universe is full of hydrino gas. |
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#43 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,278
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#44 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
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It's a hydrogen atom in a state below the ordinary ground state of hydrogen, something that's completely different than hydrogen atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. Not only that, but it's an atom with a fractional energy state, something completely different from all atoms involved in terrestrial life and terrestrial chemistry. If it's not inert like helium, it will react differently than ordinary hydrogen, and according to this patent by Mills hydrinos aren't inert. So how will hydrino atoms react to the myriad of different molecules present in terrestrial life?
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#45 |
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 28,094
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#46 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,558
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BLP is in New Jersey, not far from Princeton. NJ regulators tend to be rather hard-nosed, and likely would demand rather more than whatever Mills' theory might, or might not, say re hydrinos and hydrogen. Maybe you could ask him what environmental and safety applications, proposals, etc he has made to the various, relevant, NJ authorities, since he started experimenting in NJ?
If I am not mistaken, the BLP facility would very likely be classed as something like an experimental chemical lab, something which definitely needs permits.
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Something the relevant NJ regulators would certainly take into consideration ... but as there are, as of today, no specific rules re hydrinos, and in cases like this, they tend to prefer to check for themselves. |
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#47 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 358
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I think that michaelsuede is right not to question Mills about his business practices. That is a quick way to get on BLP's ignore list. After all, they are able to find enough people who are unwilling to question them so why should they bother with those who do?
(Anyone asking those questions is most likely not gullible enough to become a BLP investor.) |
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#48 |
Hyperthetical
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 13,498
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#49 |
New Blood
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 4
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My PM'd question:
1. Why not issue a public invitation to some prestigious scientists to come to the NJ facility to verify the excess energy production? Assuming it's valid, I don't expect Mills to be able to fully explain everything. It's taken science hundreds of iterations to get to where we are right now. But the excess energy - it either exists, or it doesn't. And if it does, the explanation as to how seems far less important. Even if they refuse, it shows they are not trying to hide something and puts the ball in the other person's court. If they do verify the excess energy, it would absolutely blow up on world news, and I'm pretty sure they'd have thousands of the brightest minds in the world willing to drop everything and assist in solving whatever problems there are with the prototype, for free. Don't mean this to be cynical. Honest question. |
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#50 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,088
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Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management |
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#51 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,416
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#52 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
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How are they not different? According to Mills' patent, compounds made with hydrinos have novel properties, different than if made with ordinary hydrogen. If hydrinos behave chemically differentially enough to make compounds with novel properties, why wouldn't they interact with terrestrial biochemistry differently as well?
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#53 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,571
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And again, many if not all of these permits are supposed to be public knowledge. Hell, every restaurant is required to publicly post their food handling permits as well as regular kitchen inspections, etc.
Even when I was a public notary for the state of Washington, I was required by law to conspicuously display my notary license. Where are Mills' laboratory inspection licenses and permits and such? Which governing body issued them and what specifically do they cover? And what about insurance? Doesn't a laboratory need specialized insurance as well? I know that's part of the operating expenses, but still. How about corporate tax filings? Does anyone know if they'd be required to be publicly accessible too or not? |
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#54 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,088
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Scott "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison Biome Carbon Cycle Management |
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#55 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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#56 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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We've been through this before. Among other things, cPV cells are an elegant solution. Lots of money has been invested in their development to date. And it's only a matter of time before cPV will be harvesting in the infrared as well. Efficiencies are going to improve, greatly. |
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#57 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
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Seeing that I think with high probability there was not a massive amount of researcher falling pregnant and staying exposed to "hydrino" nor did willingly researcher expose themselves, that would still leave terratogenic effect study, and long term effect study to do.
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#58 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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Quote:
Quote:
From a BLP patent I just glossed over: "The opportunity exists to replace a FEL that occupies the size of a large building with a table-top laser based on vibration-rotational-state inversion of H2(1/13) that can lase in the desired 10 to 14 nm range." Welcome to the GUTCP, which is actually predictive. However, getting hydrino to the 1/13th state would be no easy affair afaik. |
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#59 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
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H+ (well protoned watter H3O+) and OH- are "only" Hydrogen (proton) and Hydroxyl, but they are quiiiiite problematic after a certain concentration. You may have heard of this thing called pH.
"just an hydrogen" is very naive and shows a lack of understanding of safety procedure. |
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#60 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
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A lot has been looked for. Plus we have observation in wavelength which should detect whatever "Hydrino" production there should be, do you really think we are only observing the visible or what's left coming to earth, or what ? Look up XMM or a more well known Chandra.
And guess what they did NOT observe ? Unexplained "hydrino" bands. |
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#61 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,918
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#62 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,918
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Which has what to do with Mill's generators? Remember they are going to be built with commercially available cells:
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I wish I knew how to quit you Last edited by Darat; 26th April 2017 at 11:53 PM. Reason: Had to reformat press release 2 - too large as a website pdf |
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#63 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,918
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Yes he does:
Quote:
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#64 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,157
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#65 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,851
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You should ask him whether he's interested in working with Cyclone Power Technologies in order to produce a steam-powered car. It would make his SunCell technology tens of times more efficient and save him millions in development costs as it would make the development of a photovoltaic version redundant. Given that they've got a proven track record and contracts already in place it should help him with the business side, too, and he should be able to pay his investors back very soon.
And the sheer amount of heat that the SunCell produces should make their engines even quicker and more efficient, so they will undoubtedly jump at the chance of improving their engines further. |
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#66 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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#67 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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Because it doesn't validate anything. What do you think a few scientists observing someone else running their own kit in their own facility can do in the way of validation? The most they could ever say is that as far as they could see there appears to be an anomalous production of heat. I have personally done technical due diligence on behalf of potential invetors in start-ups, so I know how these things go. James Randi himself showed how easy it is to pull the wool over observers' eyes.
The only way for scientists to validate is doing it themselves with their kit in their facilities, accounting themselves for all the potential sources of energy production. Or for BLP to launch a successful product that does what it claims. |
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#68 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,918
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But really we are right back at the beginning.
If it can produce so much heat why isn't he continuing with the development of an electrical generator? It simply makes no sense given his claims to "just" produce a water heater. If his generator works - without "ignition" energy (soon have that engineered out) - he could have a working electrical generator within literally weeks. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are "commercially available" steam turbines he could attach! Looking at his almost 3 decades of claims he seems to have a huge blindspot in regards to using well developed technology to generate electricity from a heat source. Time and time again he claims to have a heat generator, yet never seems to be able to hook that up with a steam driven turbine to produce electrical energy. |
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#69 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,918
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Submitted the following question to MS to ask Mills:
What is preventing him from producing a working electrical generator using the well understood technology of steam driven turbines? |
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#70 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,278
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator Part 2
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#71 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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Well astronomers look across a huge range of wavelengths from 100m radio wavelengths to gamma.
ETA: the 21cm transition is also improbable as it is highly forbidden with a lifetime for the excited state of several million years.
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What's more Mills claims that there is a huge quantity of fractional state hydrogen in the universe. Shouldn't we be detecting all these rovibrational transitions across the spectrum. We see spin-flip hydrogen 21cm in astronomy, and the transition is used terrestrially in a hydrogen maser. But this fractional state hydrogen constitutes four or five times more matter in than all the currently detected visible matter according to Mills and it radates across the spectrum apparently. So why don't we see it? |
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#72 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,851
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Apparently he is. The photovoltaic development is now for cars, because the stuff you need outside of the generator itself is too big and bulky to work properly with cars.
Luckily for Mills, the people at Cyclone Power Technologies appear to have not only cracked that, but have actual manufacturing contracts with various companies and the military. So by partnering with them Mills can achieve his dream of using SunCell technology to power vehicles, can make the design much more efficient, can save himself and his investors a lot of time and money by abandoning research on the photovoltaic approach, and immediately has lots of customers ready and waiting to give him money. Honestly, if michaelsuede doesn't bring it up to Mills, then he's doing him a huge disservice. |
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#73 |
Graduate Poster
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Location: USA
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#74 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,278
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The thermal footprint of the generator being described is probably orders of magnitude higher than the fuel sources it's supposedly going to replace. Environmentally, we'd do better to stick with the current energy tech and improve carbon dioxide processing than to deploy the inefficient, heat-belching monstrosities Mills is trying to produce. We don't even know what Hydrinos DO in the environment, yet the people standing to benefit from churning them out seem to be dodging efforts at safety research. |
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#75 |
ETcorngods survivor
Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,793
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No, I had the FCC in mind. However, looking a bit closer at part 15, it is not all electronic/electrical devices, just those with a potential to emit RF or interfere with RF transmissions that come under FCC jurisdiction. Inverters for the photo-voltaic cells would, but they'd be separable from Mill's invention I guess.
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#76 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,242
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#77 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 578
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I really can't grock this idea that `his' hydrogen is completely the same, yet completely different to `normal' hydrogen
Today I was looking at a display of carbon, affixed to a noble metal band- very sparkly and quite expensive (very!!!) I also cleaned off and stored my bbq as summer has finished, resulting in quite an impressive pile of carbon I do not think that giving someone `any old' form of carbon will give the same results, give a special someone the first form of carbon, and much joy and happyness (and crying) follows Give her the second, and its likely she wont be around after that much..... And thats just two types of `known' carbon What properties has his `special' hydrogen have?- is it equally as safe as normal hydrogen? Safer? Less safe??? Until it's been tested, I'd be very wary about being too blasé with it- after all the `original' hydrogen is still quite powerful stuff in sufficient quantities to be quite dangerous, and although I could even make it myself quite simply (high school students do it every day somewhere in the world I expect) if I decided to turn a couple of thousand litres of water into hydrogen, the authorities would be (quite rightly) interested in my storage methods and safety regime So I seriously doubt that his labs would simply be allowed to `fly under the radar' so to speak if they are producing a relatively rare and new version of it- introducing a unknown new chemical would (I imagine) be something that would involve much testing and checking of its safety- I would think something like that would be very tightly controlled in case its not quite as inert as he seems to think it is Just in case this below ground state of hydrogen is kinda like a form of `hydrogen 9' so to speak ;-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Cradle |
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It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader 'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin |
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#78 | |||
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 28,094
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Hydrogen is perfectly safe...
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#79 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,278
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Especially when streaming out of vent system from a superheated dome with a temperature WELL beyond its ignition point.
Perfectly Safe(r)(tm)* *Safe(r)(tm) is a registered trademark of Explody McPower Systems and not an actual indication of safety in any physical, chemical, spiritual or aeronautic sense. Products and services rated as Safe(r)(tm) may cause property damage, bodily harm, injury, psychological trauma or death in a wide variety of ways. Individuals, companies, corporations and governments using Safe(r)(tm) rated products assume all risks and absolve the manufacturers and Explody McPower Systems of all responsibility for any damage, death, dismemberment or disaster caused by the product. Explody McPower Systems, distributors of Safe(r)(tm) rated products since August 6, 1945 |
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#80 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,683
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_telescopes
Is it your claim that these emissions aren't detectable by any of these? What part of the spectrum are they in? |
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