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Old 10th May 2017, 01:52 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Picking her up initially might be considered high spirits, dropping her was stupidly clumsy. Dragging her to the edge was criminal.
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
He comitted battery the moment he grabed her. It makes no difference if the slam was on accident or on purpose. He should eat a cruelty to animals charge for dragging the dog with the woman.
I realise that but drunk teenagers sometimes do stupid things without malice, so I would give him the benefit of the doubt up to that point. Everything after that was unacceptable in anyone's book.
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Old 10th May 2017, 02:14 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
"LOL thats white whitey gets.... White she trailer ape got her fur wet ... Ahahahahahahahahaha"
No, you're only meant to read the other ones.
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Old 10th May 2017, 02:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Molinaro View Post
There's a big difference between downplaying and correcting a false statement.

My first thought when I saw was that calling it a bodyslam was a lie. It is blatantly obvious that the guy slipped and fell when he picked her up.

The only reason to call it a bodyslam is out of a desire to create a false narrative.

Pointing that out should not be equated with condoning anything else about the video.
Ah but it does. It speaks a great deal to the fact people think it's perfectly OK to pick up a 68 year old woman with the intent on chucking her in a pool. The malicious intent was already there when the thug laid his hands on her and it's certain her injuries are no less painful on account of the lack of intent in performing a specific wrestling move. The fact the thug then dragged the injured woman into the pool along with her dogs after she had been slammed to the ground demonstrates without question his malicious intent, and hopefully the court will rule on this basis.

Then, of course, there is tacit approval. Most of the posters in this thread cannot bring themselves to utter one word of criticism, at least one poster going so far as to condone the behaviour and say the whole thing was an accident. It's pretty obvious what their views on the matter are (although those views would likely change if it had been their own mother... or maybe not, who knows their mindset?)
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:00 AM   #44
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Court date in June, until then he has 3 weeks' home detention
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:02 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Ah but it does. It speaks a great deal to the fact people think it's perfectly OK to pick up a 68 year old woman with the intent on chucking her in a pool. The malicious intent was already there when the thug laid his hands on her and it's certain her injuries are no less painful on account of the lack of intent in performing a specific wrestling move. The fact the thug then dragged the injured woman into the pool along with her dogs after she had been slammed to the ground demonstrates without question his malicious intent, and hopefully the court will rule on this basis.

Then, of course, there is tacit approval. Most of the posters in this thread cannot bring themselves to utter one word of criticism, at least one poster going so far as to condone the behaviour and say the whole thing was an accident. It's pretty obvious what their views on the matter are (although those views would likely change if it had been their own mother... or maybe not, who knows their mindset?)
Whereas you opined that everybody at the party deserved to be shot and killed. I know which I consider to be the more extreme position.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:37 AM   #46
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Had she drowned would it have been negligent homicide?
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:35 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Whereas you opined that everybody at the party deserved to be shot and killed. I know which I consider to be the more extreme position.
That was hyperbole as a comment in another thread, which was split by the mods to form this thread. I wouldn't recommend the cops go round shooting anybody without good reason, but if a rogue cop had shot this guy, so damn what?
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:48 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That was hyperbole as a comment in another thread, which was split by the mods to form this thread.
Indeed it was. From a thread about a cop shooting and killing an innocent, unarmed black child who was moving away from him. Something about which you did not "utter one word of criticism", thereby offering your "tacit approval", and making it "pretty obvious what [your] views on the matter are", although "those views would likely change if it had been [your] own [son]... or maybe not, who knows [your] mindset?"

In fact your only response was to comment that out of all the highschool parties you'd been to only a couple had the cops called and that nobody ran when they were - which was either implying fault on behalf of the victim, or completely irrelevant - and in making the post which started this thread, which was indeed off-topic and deserving of its own thread.

But perhaps I'm wrong about that and you can explain the connection. The only possible connection I can see is that you can use both to condone killing black children, but that's pretty unpleasant, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now.

Quote:
I wouldn't recommend the cops go round shooting anybody without good reason, but if a rogue cop had shot this guy, so damn what?
Indeed, so what if a black child is needlessly killed? Why should anybody think that is anything other than funny or justified? Admirable, even.
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:02 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Had she drowned would it have been negligent homicide?
Not a lawyer, but it looks like that would have been felony murder. Relevant jurisdiction is Florida, from the statutes:

Quote:
782.04 Murder.
(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:
2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any: i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0782.04.html
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:08 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Not a lawyer, but it looks like that would have been felony murder.
Probably reckless homicide because there was no intent to kill.
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:18 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Indeed it was. From a thread about a cop shooting and killing an innocent, unarmed black child who was moving away from him. Something about which you did not "utter one word of criticism", thereby offering your "tacit approval", and making it "pretty obvious what [your] views on the matter are", although "those views would likely change if it had been [your] own [son]... or maybe not, who knows [your] mindset?"

In fact your only response was to comment that out of all the highschool parties you'd been to only a couple had the cops called and that nobody ran when they were - which was either implying fault on behalf of the victim, or completely irrelevant - and in making the post which started this thread, which was indeed off-topic and deserving of its own thread.

But perhaps I'm wrong about that and you can explain the connection. The only possible connection I can see is that you can use both to condone killing black children, but that's pretty unpleasant, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now.
Unlike others I have no problem saying that shooting an unarmed citizen who poses no risk whilst running (or driving) away is disgraceful and the perpetrator should be charged with murder.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Indeed, so what if a black child is needlessly killed? Why should anybody think that is anything other than funny or justified? Admirable, even.
What's all this about 'black children', as if these actions by any other colour 'child' would be OK? Although it must be said, if this had been an old black lady and and all the gang - I mean, partygoers - white, there would be no equivocation from posters when it came to condemning the lot of them.
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:28 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Probably reckless homicide because there was no intent to kill.
That's possible too, and would fall under Florida's manslaughter statute:

Quote:
782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult...(2) A person who causes the death of any elderly person or disabled adult by culpable negligence under s. 825.102(3) commits aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0782/0782.html
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:31 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Unlike others I have no problem saying that shooting an unarmed citizen who poses no risk whilst running (or driving) away is disgraceful and the perpetrator should be charged with murder.
I'm glad to hear you say that. I am, however, still curious as to what you thought the pool video proved with regard to that shooting. What is the connection, the relevance?
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:43 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Unlike others I have no problem saying that shooting an unarmed citizen who poses no risk whilst running (or driving) away is disgraceful and the perpetrator should be charged with murder.
So you think he should be charged with murder, but rather than saying it in the appropriate thread you instead opined that it would have been better if he had killed other children, too. Why is that?

Quote:
What's all this about 'black children', as if these actions by any other colour 'child' would be OK?
You tell me. You're the one who thinks the two incidents were connected, to the point where you don't seem to think this one should have its own thread. I gave you the opportunity to clarify why that is, but you've neglected to do so.

Quote:
Although it must be said, if this had been an old black lady and and all the gang - I mean, partygoers - white, there would be no equivocation from posters when it came to condemning the lot of them.
If you can genuinely see into parallel timelines like this, then you should know that plenty of sceptical societies offer cash prizes for demonstrations of abilities such as yours.
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:45 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I realise that but drunk teenagers sometimes do stupid things without malice, so I would give him the benefit of the doubt up to that point. Everything after that was unacceptable in anyone's book.
Malice is not a requirement to still be arrested and tried and likely sued!!!!!!And the ******* needs to get both and lose on both!!!!!
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:46 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Had she drowned would it have been negligent homicide?
Should be called murder in that case.
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Old 10th May 2017, 07:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
I'm glad to hear you say that. I am, however, still curious as to what you thought the pool video proved with regard to that shooting. What is the connection, the relevance?
It doesn't 'prove' anything. What would you like it to prove? It's a recent event linked by common factors I found whilst Googling, so I posted it. It was deemed too OT by the mods and given a new thread.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
So you think he should be charged with murder, but rather than saying it in the appropriate thread you instead opined that it would have been better if he had killed other children, too. Why is that?
Aside from the full explanation given? You complain that I didn't address the topic in the original thread then come to this thread and demand to discuss the original.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You tell me. You're the one who thinks the two incidents were connected, to the point where you don't seem to think this one should have its own thread. I gave you the opportunity to clarify why that is, but you've neglected to do so.

If you can genuinely see into parallel timelines like this, then you should know that plenty of sceptical societies offer cash prizes for demonstrations of abilities such as yours.
Whatever you say.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:12 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Had she drowned would it have been negligent homicide?
At least. Could even be second degree murder.
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Old 10th May 2017, 08:14 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
It doesn't 'prove' anything. What would you like it to prove? It's a recent event linked by common factors I found whilst Googling, so I posted it. It was deemed too OT by the mods and given a new thread.
So, it was a totally random posting? You closed your eyes, and happened to click on a thread about the illegal shooting of a young black man?

I find that very unconvincing. On what grounds do you think it could have been on topic?

Again, there's a thread about a young black man being shot. You post an unrelated video of a young black man acting badly. Surely you see why that's a troubling association.
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Old 10th May 2017, 09:59 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Aside from the full explanation given?
The "full explanation" as far as I can tell is you opining that you'd be perfectly fine with this particular child, as well as everybody else at the party, child or not, being shot and killed.

If you've got another one in mind, please point me to the relevant post.

Quote:
[You complain that I didn't address the topic in the original thread then come to this thread and demand to discuss the original.
I didn't complain about anything. I just pointed out the flaw in your logic in asserting that anybody who hadn't specifically condemned something was expressing approval and might even be in favour of their own relatives undergoing the same treatment. That you then asserted that your lack of condemnation in the other thread wasn't actually approval demonstrated that you agree that a lack of expressed condemnation isn't the same thing as approval.

Quote:
Whatever you say.
No, really, there are prizes. You could make a lot of money. Like really a lot. As in "never have to work another day in your life" kind of money. And that's before we even get into the massive advancements in science that could be gained.

Kind of selfish not to, really.
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Old 10th May 2017, 10:05 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
So, it was a totally random posting? You closed your eyes, and happened to click on a thread about the illegal shooting of a young black man?
When I Google I tend to do so using relevant keywords bring back a number of different web pages which I can then access as required. Hence, a story with common factors. Is any of this news to you?

Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
I find that very unconvincing. On what grounds do you think it could have been on topic?

Again, there's a thread about a young black man being shot. You post an unrelated video of a young black man acting badly. Surely you see why that's a troubling association.
So you complain that my posts were off-topic for the original thread, then when my post is split off as a new thread you repeatedly post about the original thread. Impenetrable behaviour.
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Old 10th May 2017, 10:10 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
When I Google I tend to do so using relevant keywords bring back a number of different web pages which I can then access as required. Hence, a story with common factors. Is any of this news to you?
What key words did you use? What were the common factors?

Quote:
So you complain that my posts were off-topic for the original thread, then when my post is split off as a new thread you repeatedly post about the original thread. Impenetrable behaviour.
I don't believe it was off topic because I don't think you thought it was off-topic. I disagree with the mods moving it.

I asked you to explain the relevance. You are still tip-toeing around the answer.

Google key words yield a ton of results to almost everything. You watched that video and took the positive action to link it into a video about the slaying of a young black child, really, by police.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:21 PM   #63
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A trip and fall on the pavement killed my father. He hit is head and died of a brain hemorrhage a couple hours later...and he wasn't lifted into the air before hand. My great aunt tripped and fell on the pavement and broke her hip, and died of complications later.

Falls can kill an old person. The kid was stupid to ever lay hands on her, much less pick her up in the air. He should have known better. At least he owned up to what he did.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:45 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
It says a great deal that you try to assign malicious intent to an obvious accident.
Not really. As soon as he assaulted her (picking her up) he was committing a malicious act (assault) and when he dropped /fell with her he officially added battery (as she would not have been battered had he not assaulted her) thus was guilty with no quibbles of assault and battery. Hopefully he has been arrested for same, will be tried for same, jailed for same and sued over the trauma and damage to her directly caused by the assault and battery. And I hope his parents have really good insurance for her to get a wonderfully large settlement!!!!!


Note: I have no problem with kids (or adults) having a good time. Physically extending it to pull in uninterested others is a bad idea. Damaging them in the process even worse!!!!!!!
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:53 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Had she drowned would it have been negligent homicide?
Had she drowned or died from the drop/throw it should be treated as murder, nothing less. Try to discourage idiots. Ruin the life that takes a life (unless it is done to save a good life by taking a useless one).

Also, it is very useful to know how to cut into major arteries and have two knives on you that open rapidly and are kept sharp. Or, of course, a couple of Bic Crystal bp pens and practice at using them in the most effective ways and places!!!!!
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Old 10th May 2017, 01:00 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by SteveL View Post
It says a great deal that you try to assign malicious intent to an obvious accident.
Also in nicer mode: malicious intent does not matter as it is only legalismed if the perpetrator states or otherwise clearly intends it as such. But in this case the intent was clearly an assault based on the woman making a legitimate request/complaint. That clearly makes it either revenge or preventative assault.
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Old 10th May 2017, 01:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Had she drowned or died from the drop/throw it should be treated as murder, nothing less. Try to discourage idiots. Ruin the life that takes a life (unless it is done to save a good life by taking a useless one).

Also, it is very useful to know how to cut into major arteries and have two knives on you that open rapidly and are kept sharp. Or, of course, a couple of Bic Crystal bp pens and practice at using them in the most effective ways and places!!!!!
Of course I do, the Bics are if I have to go through a metal detector.
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:31 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
A trip and fall on the pavement killed my father. He hit is head and died of a brain hemorrhage a couple hours later...and he wasn't lifted into the air before hand. My great aunt tripped and fell on the pavement and broke her hip, and died of complications later.

Falls can kill an old person. The kid was stupid to ever lay hands on her, much less pick her up in the air. He should have known better. At least he owned up to what he did.
Not really. He hightailed it out of there, but was recognized by a neighbor who reported his name to the popo. His conscience got the better of him after he was known to authorities.
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Old 10th May 2017, 06:44 PM   #69
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From Squeegee's link: He’s being charged with battery on a person 65 years of age or older.

I can only hope the court takes that 'teen attacking a senior citizen' as a meaningful charge. But maybe meaningful and lengthy community service is a better choice than incarceration. And yeah, he should be kicked off the basketball team for a year, minimum.

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Old 10th May 2017, 08:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From Squeegee's link: Hes being charged with battery on a person 65 years of age or older.

I can only hope the court takes that 'teen attacking a senior citizen' as a meaningful charge. But maybe meaningful and lengthy community service is a better choice than incarceration. And yeah, he should be kicked off the basketball team for a year, minimum.
I prefer randomly kicked by the football team for that time!!!
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:16 PM   #71
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I get that he is being held responsible under the legal system and all, but wouldn't it be cheaper just to shoot him?
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:40 PM   #72
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Old 11th May 2017, 02:04 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I get that he is being held responsible under the legal system and all, but wouldn't it be cheaper just to shoot him?
That's OP's ideal solution, apparently. Except that he thinks that would be murder and therefore disgraceful and the perpetrator should be prosecuted for that. But at the same time he wouldn't care at all because the kid deserved to be murdered.

It's a very consistent and well thought-out opinion.
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Old 11th May 2017, 04:12 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's OP's ideal solution, apparently. Except that he thinks that would be murder and therefore disgraceful and the perpetrator should be prosecuted for that. But at the same time he wouldn't care at all because the kid deserved to be murdered.

It's a very consistent and well thought-out opinion.
And you're now going to explain what is inconsistent about that opinion (the non straw man version, of course). In your own time.
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Old 12th May 2017, 02:17 AM   #75
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Seems inconsistent to me to advocate for murder while also condemning it. I've asked you to explain more than once but you refuse to. If you refuse to clarify then you can hardly complain if I just go by the words that you've already typed.

If you'd like to explain, though, I'm all ears. Well, all eyes.
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Old 12th May 2017, 02:31 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Seems inconsistent to me to advocate for murder while also condemning it. I've asked you to explain more than once but you refuse to. If you refuse to clarify then you can hardly complain if I just go by the words that you've already typed.

If you'd like to explain, though, I'm all ears. Well, all eyes.
I explained my original statement in post #47, as you well know. You then made a claim that my view is inconsistent. Are you going to back up that statement or not? What is inconsistent about that comment?
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Old 12th May 2017, 03:36 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I explained my original statement in post #47, as you well know.
You said it was hyperbole, but then immediately re-iterated it in the following sentence.

Quote:
You then made a claim that my view is inconsistent.
Condemning murder while advocating for murder is inconsistent.

Quote:
Are you going to back up that statement or not?
You've both advocated for murder and condemned murder. This is an inconsistent position.

Quote:
What is inconsistent about that comment?
That you are both condemning and advocating for murder.
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Old 12th May 2017, 05:02 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
You said it was hyperbole, but then immediately re-iterated it in the following sentence.



Condemning murder while advocating for murder is inconsistent.



You've both advocated for murder and condemned murder. This is an inconsistent position.



That you are both condemning and advocating for murder.
No, please focus. I said, "That was hyperbole as a comment in another thread, which was split by the mods to form this thread. I wouldn't recommend the cops go round shooting anybody without good reason, but if a rogue cop had shot this guy, so damn what?"

Murder in this instance is clearly wrong, but if it had happened I wouldn't care. It would be a wrong action which wouldn't bother me one iota (or rather, the result wouldn't, the fact that cops think they can go round shooting people at random would). What is inconsistent about this view?
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Old 12th May 2017, 06:50 AM   #79
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"Disgusting" murders don't bother you one iota?
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Old 12th May 2017, 07:04 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
"Disgusting" murders don't bother you one iota?
Instead of inventing words I never used, why not just tell me what is inconsistent about my statement?
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