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Tags donald trump , James Comey , Michael Flynn , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 9th May 2017, 07:43 PM   #201
thaiboxerken
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Trump is going to restore the public trust of the FBI by appointing the next FBI head who will be in charge of investigating the Trump campaign's ties to Russia.........
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Old 9th May 2017, 07:44 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It's like going into a friend's wallet and taking $20. Then,when getting caught doing so, saying "you told me last year I could borrow $20."
Actually it's more like egging your friend on to cheat with another friend's girl, and then six months later after she starts going out with you, punching him for having slept with her.
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Old 9th May 2017, 07:49 PM   #203
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Everyone Democrat will be in the Senate tomorrow and will do something big.

I suspect they will threaten to boycott all Senate business until a Special Prosecutor is selected.
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Old 9th May 2017, 07:51 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Everyone Democrat will be in the Senate tomorrow and will do something big.

I suspect they will threaten to boycott all Senate business until a Special Prosecutor is selected.
Now that would be impressive! If only the republicans did that for Benghazi!!!
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:01 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Everyone Democrat will be in the Senate tomorrow and will do something big.

I suspect they will threaten to boycott all Senate business until a Special Prosecutor is selected.
If they do, can't republicans form a quorum of 51 and pass Trumpcare without filibuster?

Or is it somehow going to still include the things advantageous to them?
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:07 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I never specified who I of course think Flynn and page did something wrong. I do think Trump has does wrong things (Trump University), but Russian stuff there is a lack of evidence.
I agree, for the moment. That's why I think this might simply be his narcissism at work. Their given reason is clearly nonsense, but while Trump is absurdly corrupt, he's also egotistical, ignorant, and outright stupid. It's entirely possible that he'd wreck his presidency permanently, for an unexpectedly stupid reason.
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:27 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I agree, for the moment. That's why I think this might simply be his narcissism at work. Their given reason is clearly nonsense, but while Trump is absurdly corrupt, he's also egotistical, ignorant, and outright stupid. It's entirely possible that he'd wreck his presidency permanently, for an unexpectedly stupid reason.

There's nothing unexpected about Trump doing something stupid.
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:28 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
If that was the actual reason, why wait 5 months?

These two things can be true at once:

1) Comey mishandled the Clinton email fake scandal.
2) It's deeply concerning that Trump fired him.
To Trump's stated delight.
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:36 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
There is also the matter that the actions aren't Trump's concern as a boss. They were dealt with under Comey's boss at the time, Obama. If it was a fireable offence, then he should have been fired then. If you don't get why then look at it this way. You do something in your job that breeches the rules. Your boss considers it and lets you off with a warning. Six months later a new boss comes in and decides that the warning was insufficient and fires you for something that you didn't even do on his watch and had been actioned already.
That's fairly common these days, at least in terms of misconduct. Think of some of the recent resignations in the National Park Service over sexual harassment issues. Think of Bill O'Rielly - his boss let his get away with it for a long time, but the old boss was fired, and the new bosses fired O'Rielly.

That said, I am certainly not taking Trump's side on this. It seems very plausible that the Clinton allegations are just the red herring needed to get rid of someone who, however flawed, might still have made a credible effort to look into the Russia allegations. Its a good dogwhistle for the right, but has no resonance to the large majority.

Trump seems more and more like an amateurish attempt to channel Nixon.
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:51 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
]Because changing a person's vote by lying to them is really no different than doing it more directly.

Furthermore, wikileaks is not a private entitty, it is a front and disseminator of Russian propaganda.
I believe that's called "campaigning"
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:53 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
If you ask me, this wild speculation regarding Russia and trump belongs in the Conspiracy Theory forum.

Perhaps you can petition Congress to move their investigation to that subforum.
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:03 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
(emphasis added)


The two highlighted phrases are not synonymous.

Uh, yeah. There's a reason for that: the statements are ChristianProgressive's representation of what two different sources are saying.
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:04 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
What's L. Patrick Gray doing, anyhow? Still twisting in the wind pushing up the daisies? That'll work fine for Trump, and the Senate will confirm him in a heartbeat.

ETA: Trump really doesn't give a rodent's posterior how things look any more, does he. Oh, wait -- he never did.
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:07 PM   #214
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As usual, Jonah Goldberg has the best take on the situation: "Hillary Clinton tested the limits of what the system would allow and she put people and institutions in an untenable position... President Trump may even be doing this for all the right — and stated — reasons. But this, too, points to the mess Hillary Clinton created for herself and the country."
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:10 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That's fairly common these days, at least in terms of misconduct. Think of some of the recent resignations in the National Park Service over sexual harassment issues. Think of Bill O'Rielly - his boss let his get away with it for a long time, but the old boss was fired, and the new bosses fired O'Rielly.
Neither of these are really analogous. In the NPS situation the harassment was covered up rather than dealt with and it took new management to uncover and deal with it. In the O'Rielly situation the historic complaints unearthed by the New York Times would unlikely have sunk him. It was the two fresh allegations on the 18th, over two weeks after the initial article that caused FOX to part ways with him. It wasn't like FOX called him in and said, "Hey Bill, you remember those harassment complaints that you had in 2004 and we paid out on, we're firing you for them."
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:16 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Pray tell, can you find even the slightest sliver of evidence that Trump would do this over Clinton and not over the Russia investigation?

If Trump did this months ago and appointed someone to pursue a Clinton prosecution, that would have made sense. He missed that window and not many people in his base were hammering for a Clinton prosecution.

Suddenly the Senate investigation of Trump/Russia shenanigans isn't going away like the House investigation did. And Comey makes one misspeak about how many emails were on Weiner's laptop, seriously, you think that actually mattered to all-about-me Trump?

Another of my predictions. Trump appoints an FBI director with the goal of quashing the Russia investigation. The FBI rank and file revolt and we start seeing a slew of whistle blowing leaks.
I had a similar thought when I first heard the news. It's no secret that the FBI was fully-loaded with Trump supporters. Will they see this as a betrayal?
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:40 PM   #217
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I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this, but upon reading the reasons, I have to say I agree with them.

Suggested reading:

Rod Rosenstein's letter recommending Comey is fired
Quote:
The director was wrong to usurp the Attorney General's authority on July 5, 2016, and announce his conclusion that the case should be closed without prosecution. It is not the function of the Director to make such an announcement. At most, the Director should have said the FBI had completed its investigation and presented its findings to federal prosecutors. The Director now defends his decision by asserting that he believed attorney General Loretta Lynch had a conflict. But the FBI Director is never empowered to supplant federal prosecutors and assume command of the Justice Department. There is a well-established process for other officials to step in when a conflict requires the recusal of the Attorney General. On July 5, however, the Director announced his own conclusions about the nation's most sensitive criminal investigation, without the authorization of duly appointed Justice Department leaders.

Compounding the error, the Director ignored another longstanding principle: we do not hold press conferences to release derogatory information about the subject of a declined criminal investigation. Derogatory information sometimes is disclosed in the course of criminal investigations and prosecutions, but we never release it gratuitously. The Director laid out his version of the facts for the news media as if it were a closing argument, but without a trial. It is a textbook example of what federal prosecutors and agents are taught not to do.

In response to skeptical question at a congressional hearing, the Director defended his remarks by saying that his "goal was to say what is true. What did we do, what did we find, what do we think about it." But the goal of a federal criminal investigation is not to announce our thoughts at a press conference. The goal is to determine whether there is sufficient evidence to justify a federal criminal prosecution, then allow a federal prosecutor who exercises authority delegated by the Attorney General to make a prosecutorial decision, and then - if prosecution is warranted - let the judge and jury determine the facts. We sometimes release information about closed investigations in appropriate ways, but the FBI does not do it sua sponte.

Concerning his letter to the Congress on October 28, 2016, the Director cast his decision as a choice between whether he would "speak" about the FBI's decision to investigate the newly-discovered email messages or "conceal" it. "Conceal" is a loaded term that misstates the issue. When federal agents and prosecutors quietly open a criminal investigation, we are not concealing anything; we are simply following the longstanding policy that we refrain from publicizing non-public information. In that context, silence is not concealment.

My perspective on these issues is shared by former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from different eras and both political parties. . . .
(Goes on to quote the opinions of many former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from both parties)

So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause. Granted, he was in a difficult position, and none of this would have ever happened if Hillary Clinton hadn't decided to set up her own private e-mail server. But, he still made incorrect choices in how to carry out his own job.
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:54 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this, but upon reading the reasons, I have to say I agree with them.

Suggested reading:

Rod Rosenstein's letter recommending Comey is fired

(Goes on to quote the opinions of many former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from both parties)

So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause. Granted, he was in a difficult position, and none of this would have ever happened if Hillary Clinton hadn't decided to set up her own private e-mail server. But, he still made incorrect choices in how to carry out his own job.
You think because Comey screwed up in how he addressed Clinton we should be distracted from today when Trump is squirming under the pressure of his Russian issues?
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Old 9th May 2017, 09:56 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I had a similar thought when I first heard the news. It's no secret that the FBI was fully-loaded with Trump supporters. Will they see this as a betrayal?
Actually, the Trump faction at the FBI were most of the reason for Comey's strange October Surprise announcement. Scuttlebut around the New York office and in the NY press was that they were going to go public about the material on Weiner's laptop if Comey didn't. They were in the Dump Comey camp all along; why would they see this as a betrayal? These are the Giuliani sources of the time.

@Skeptic Ginger - similarly, I don't see a massive movement of potential whistleblowers in the FBI. It's the FBI, fer crissake. Just as we've seen a whole lot of gung ho Immigration and Homeland Security types acting upon the letter of the law since Trump came in, I think you've got just as many, if not more arch conservative FBI agents out there. With Sessions in charge, I think the best we can hope for is "unconfirmed agency sources say". I'm not one for generic cop-bashing, but if you had to place your average job/career on a graph of the political spectrum, I'm pretty sure we'd all put LEOs high up in both the Conservative and Authoritarian categories. I don't think the FBI leopard has changed its Hoover spots just because of a couple of less-conservative Democratic administrations.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:01 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You think because Comey screwed up in how he addressed Clinton we should be distracted from today when Trump is squirming under the pressure of his Russian issues?
Firing Comey won't end the Russia investigation.

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/trump-...stigation-yet/
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:06 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this, but upon reading the reasons, I have to say I agree with them.

Suggested reading:

Rod Rosenstein's letter recommending Comey is fired

(Goes on to quote the opinions of many former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from both parties)

So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause. Granted, he was in a difficult position, and none of this would have ever happened if Hillary Clinton hadn't decided to set up her own private e-mail server. But, he still made incorrect choices in how to carry out his own job.
Roughly 40% of the population will believe that letter was the reason Comey was fired -- the same 40% that will believe anything, apparently.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:09 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this, but upon reading the reasons, I have to say I agree with them.

Suggested reading:

Rod Rosenstein's letter recommending Comey is fired

(Goes on to quote the opinions of many former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from both parties)

So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause. Granted, he was in a difficult position, and none of this would have ever happened if Hillary Clinton hadn't decided to set up her own private e-mail server. But, he still made incorrect choices in how to carry out his own job.
All of which The Hair's administration knew when they came into office. So, why now?
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:15 PM   #223
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Oh, by the way:


James Comey’s Testimony on Huma Abedin Forwarding Emails Was Inaccurate

He said she forwarded "hundreds of thousands" of classified e-mails to Weiner. It was only a small handful and only a couple of them may have contained classified information. This was testimony under oath.

This was last week, not months ago.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:17 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Roughly 40% of the population will believe that letter was the reason Comey was fired -- the same 40% that will believe anything, apparently.
Maybe it doesn't actually matter. Legitimate grounds to dismiss him existed. But please elaborate the real reason as you see it.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:30 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this, but upon reading the reasons, I have to say I agree with them.

Suggested reading:

Rod Rosenstein's letter recommending Comey is fired

(Goes on to quote the opinions of many former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from both parties)

So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause. Granted, he was in a difficult position, and none of this would have ever happened if Hillary Clinton hadn't decided to set up her own private e-mail server. But, he still made incorrect choices in how to carry out his own job.
Maybe the firing was appropriate. Nevertheless, the ONLY acceptable way forward is to appoint an Independent Special Prosecutor to continue the Russia Election investigation. Right now, the appearance is that Trump is deliberately hampering it. Keep in mind that he fired Deputy Attorney General Yates as well as the US Attorney for New York. As President he has that authority but this doesn't look good.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:46 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Maybe it doesn't actually matter. Legitimate grounds to dismiss him existed. But please elaborate the real reason as you see it.
The thing is that while yes those reasons existed, the time to fire him for them was at the time he did them, but rather than calling for him to be fired, Trump supported Comet's actions at the time and even used them to further his own campaign. This is why his actions are hypocritical. He only fires him when he starts to be a thorn in his side, and then uses the previous indiscretions to hide his real reason. If He was so against what Comey had done during the election, he would have asked him for his resignation months ago.

That's the issue. It's not that he fired him, it's that either he isn't being honest about why he fired him, or he fired him for something that he was happy to cheer on at the time. Either way, that makes the firing smell rotten.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:47 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
If the government were a reality TV show, the ratings would be through the roof. YUGE!
Trump has the best reality TV shows.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:52 PM   #228
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As usual, Trump is shooting the messenger.
Yes, Comey had it coming, but it's hard to see anything but opportunism in the timing: the Trump Crew thought that Democrats wouldn't object since Comey is so unpopular with them. But the Clinton emails aren't the pressing issue, Flynn is. And without a credible replacement, firing him in the middle of an investigation into his boss, right after the failed misdirections in the Yates hearing, just looks too much like an attempt to hamper the the work of the FBI.
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Old 9th May 2017, 10:52 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The thing is that while yes those reasons existed, the time to fire him for them was at the time he did them, but rather than calling for him to be fired, Trump supported Comet's actions at the time and even used them to further his own campaign. This is why his actions are hypocritical. He only fires him when he starts to be a thorn in his side, and then uses the previous indiscretions to hide his real reason. If He was so against what Comey had done during the election, he would have asked him for his resignation months ago.

That's the issue. It's not that he fired him, it's that either he isn't being honest about why he fired him, or he fired him for something that he was happy to cheer on at the time. Either way, that makes the firing smell rotten.
Oh, I see. What did he say at the time? I'm not doubting you, I just need my memory refreshed.

Of course, Trump could not have fired him at the time because he wasn't president yet. If Obama had fired him it would have looked like political interference. Possibly obstruction of justice.
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Old 9th May 2017, 11:02 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Maybe it doesn't actually matter. Legitimate grounds to dismiss him existed. But please elaborate the real reason as you see it.
Of course, most people think it's a clumsy attempt to quash the FBI investigation, but the timing and the irrationality of it suggests vindictive narcissistic rage.
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Old 9th May 2017, 11:34 PM   #231
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Of course, most people think it's a clumsy attempt to quash the FBI investigation, but the timing and the irrationality of it suggests vindictive narcissistic rage.
not mutually exclusive...
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Old 9th May 2017, 11:47 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Oh, I see. What did he say at the time? I'm not doubting you, I just need my memory refreshed.
Trump used his words about Hillary to attack her over the emails while saying that he thought that the FBI had made a bad decision to not prosecute her.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52884106223616

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52884106223616

What you don't see there is "FBI Director overstepped his boundaries, he should be fired."

In fact in Oct he has this to say about Comey...

"That was so bad what happened originally, and it took guts for Director Comey to make the move that he made in light of the kind of opposition he had where they’re trying to protect her from criminal prosecution, it took a lot of guts."

Again no signs of Trump declaring him to have overstepped the mark, rather it was the Democrats calling for Comey's head at that point.

Quote:
Of course, Trump could not have fired him at the time because he wasn't president yet. If Obama had fired him it would have looked like political interference. Possibly obstruction of justice.
Not so much if he had done so after he announced that the FBI were not pressing for prosecution. Obama could have thanked him, said he'd done a good job but overstepped in his announcements. Heck the Republicans would have loved it because they were after him for not charging Clinton at that point and called him to to testify and grilled him over the decision.

At no point where the Republicans at all concerned with the violation of protocols. To blame that now is hypocrisy, pure and simple.
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Old 9th May 2017, 11:50 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Maybe the firing was appropriate. Nevertheless, the ONLY acceptable way forward is to appoint an Independent Special Prosecutor to continue the Russia Election investigation. Right now, the appearance is that Trump is deliberately hampering it. Keep in mind that he fired Deputy Attorney General Yates as well as the US Attorney for New York. As President he has that authority but this doesn't look good.
^This.
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Old 9th May 2017, 11:59 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Oh, I see. What did he say at the time? I'm not doubting you, I just need my memory refreshed.

Of course, Trump could not have fired him at the time because he wasn't president yet. If Obama had fired him it would have looked like political interference. Possibly obstruction of justice.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...-230542http:// is just one of the articles over a fair period of time describing how Trump was pointedly praising how Comey was handling or did handle the Hillary e-mail issue. The same issue that he's officially firing Comey for, pretty much.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:01 AM   #235
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Well you certainly won't get any argument from me that Trump isn't a gigantic hypocrite on this and many other things. I think we all knew that already though.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:03 AM   #236
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Reminds me of the Watergate scandal.

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Old 10th May 2017, 12:15 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Trump praises Comey for having 'a lot of guts' is just one of the articles over a fair period of time describing how Trump was pointedly praising how Comey was handling or did handle the Hillary e-mail issue. The same issue that he's officially firing Comey for, pretty much.
(Fixed link.)

Quote:
Trump praises Comey for having 'a lot of guts'
10/31/16 02:01 PM EDT

. . .

“And I have to give the FBI credit. That was so bad what happened originally,” Trump said, referring to Comey’s announcement in July to not recommend charges against Clinton to the Justice Department. “And it took guts for Director Comey to make the move that he made in light of the kind of opposition he had where they’re trying to protect her from criminal prosecution. You know that. It took a lot of guts.”

Trump, who was highly critical of Comey, the FBI and DOJ after his summer announcement, said Monday he “really disagreed with him” at the time.

“I was not his fan,” he added, “but I’ll tell you what: What he did, he brought back his reputation. He brought it back.”

The GOP nominee also advised the FBI chief to “hang tough.” “A lot of people want him to do the wrong thing,” Trump suggested. “What he did was the right thing.
Like I said, a gigantic hypocrite. But Democrats who were once calling for Comey to resign shouldn't forget that either.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:30 AM   #238
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Trump knew that what Comey said and did on July 5th, 2016 was inappropriate. He was just so busy with the transition -- moving his family into the White House -- and then the first hundred days -- repealing and replacing Obamacare, getting out of NAFTA (worst deal in history), abandoning NATO, throwing Clinton in prison, serving China a Big Mac and labeling them a currency manipulator, exposing Obama's "wiretapping," building a wall, and stopping Muslim immigration until we figure out what the hell is going on, etc., so the long coming Comey firing was placed on the backburner. Frankly, I'm not yet tired of winning.
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Old 10th May 2017, 12:52 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
(Fixed link.)



Like I said, a gigantic hypocrite. But Democrats who were once calling for Comey to resign shouldn't forget that either.
The context of timing should not be discounted either. Trump firing Comey is like a referee throwing a flag in a football game during the 4th quarter for an off-sides penalty in the 1st quarter in order to change the outcome of the game.
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Old 10th May 2017, 01:08 AM   #240
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Sessions was told to find reasons to fire Comey: reports

Originally Posted by The Hill
President Trump’s decision Tuesday to fire FBI Director James Comey has been in the works since at least last week, according to multiple media reports.

Senior officials at the White House and Justice Department were working on building a case against Comey since that time, according to The New York Times. Attorney General Jeff Sessions was asked to come with reasons to oust him.
...

Shortly after Comey's firing was announced, the White House circulated letters from Sessions and his deputy, Rod Rosenstein, justifying the decision.
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