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Tags donald trump , James Comey , Michael Flynn , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 10th May 2017, 01:13 AM   #241
KoihimeNakamura
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Some are speculating this is due to Comey's popularity.. which .. well...
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Old 10th May 2017, 01:28 AM   #242
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To be honest, I'm not close enough to all the issues at hand to speak with any kind of value on why these events have come about, but for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:

1. I'm surprised it took this long. Comey seems to have been all over the place, changing his mind and having to correct information. If I did my job that way, I'd expect to be at least reprimanded, and possibly fired, so I don't really see it as that shocking as an isolated act. I haven't seen anyone defending Comey as a fine FBI Director who has been unfairly targeted.

2. The wording of the letter from Trump is odd. Who wrote that? Who approved it? The sentence about investigations in the middle of the fairly routine formal stuff stands out like a sore thumb, and is such a non-sequitur.

Quote:
I have accepted their recommendation and you are hereby terminated and removed from office, effective immediately.

While I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation, I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the Bureau.
It doesn't belong in that letter, it's nothing to do with the action he's taking. I have to assume that a very highly paid communications professional was involved in drafting this letter, and they let that in? I guess Trump insisted on it, which is just stupid.
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Old 10th May 2017, 01:31 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
"Interesting" way to recuse yourself from involvement in the FBI investigation into allegations of Russian involvement in the election and allegations of Russian ties to the Trump administration and business - to advise the sacking of the FBI director

That's not to say that Comey should still be in post, IMO his leaking of information was a factor in Hillary's defeat and seemed very partial, but I query both the timing and the actual (as opposed to stated) motivation.

The BBC are suggesting that Chris Christie or Rudy Giuliani could be in line to be the next FBI director. If that's the case then I don't think that the right motives apply.
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Old 10th May 2017, 01:58 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Firing Comey won't end the Russia investigation.

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/trump-...stigation-yet/
But Donald thought it would.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-russia-238192
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:01 AM   #245
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If there's one thing that could make this worse for The Hair, it's pushing a "drop the Russia" investigation" narrative while defending the Comey firing. I really hope he does. Worse for The Hair is better for the country.
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:06 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
So what does that mean? Is Trump going to order Clinton's prosecution? That would put her back in the public eye for years, after she's already started to fade away. Why would he benefit from that?
Exactly no one expects him to keep any of his campaign promises anyway. That was a metaphor like the wall, or the lack of corners in the oval office.
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:20 AM   #247
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Well, it looks like the narrative is starting, at least:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/10/politi...nvestigations/
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:26 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Not when the man himself and his regime are under investigation. This BS woulden't fly in any lesser level of government. Comey should refuse to leave and dare Trump to force him out, which would prove once and for all that 2016 was a coup, not an election.

Little late for that. Once Trump fired him he was already out.

Hanging around his office and refusing to leave the building wouldn't change that.
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:30 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Neither of these are really analogous. In the NPS situation the harassment was covered up rather than dealt with and it took new management to uncover and deal with it. In the O'Rielly situation the historic complaints unearthed by the New York Times would unlikely have sunk him. It was the two fresh allegations on the 18th, over two weeks after the initial article that caused FOX to part ways with him. It wasn't like FOX called him in and said, "Hey Bill, you remember those harassment complaints that you had in 2004 and we paid out on, we're firing you for them."

I don't think so.

It was O'Reilly's advertisers threatening to leave like fleas dropping off of a sick rat that caused Fox to dump him.

The new allegations may have been what influenced the advertisers, but that isn't the same thing. If they had stayed on board any number of new allegations wouldn't have fazed Fox. Fox has canned responses for those, as long as it doesn't hurt them in the wallet.
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Old 10th May 2017, 03:32 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
(Fixed link.)



Like I said, a gigantic hypocrite. But Democrats who were once calling for Comey to resign shouldn't forget that either.

I think that for the most part they haven't forgotten anything. Questioning Trump's motives for firing him now is not the same as suddenly deciding that his actions and behavior before had somehow become okay.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:00 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this, but upon reading the reasons, I have to say I agree with them.

Suggested reading:

Rod Rosenstein's letter recommending Comey is fired

(Goes on to quote the opinions of many former Attorneys General and Deputy Attorneys General from both parties)

So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause. Granted, he was in a difficult position, and none of this would have ever happened if Hillary Clinton hadn't decided to set up her own private e-mail server. But, he still made incorrect choices in how to carry out his own job.

That's one messed up letter.

The core of it is that Comey shouldn't have offered any opinion about prosecution. However, he was asked to do so. The author of the letter talks about "nearly unanimous" condemnation of Comey's actions. That just shows the guy is living in an echo chamber.

Until I actually read the letter, I was thinking that maybe there was a good excuse for this. Maybe it was that some insiders were worried that all this presidential politics stuff had distracted him from his real duties, and maybe the real problem was that some of the other things the FBI was supposed to do were not being done well.

Now that I've seen the reasons stated, we can confirm that's not true. It's politics, politics, and politics.

Good luck, Donald, and I do not mean that sincerely, even a little bit. You are going to find that being a reality TV star isn't nearly a much fun when you cannot write the script or edit the final version.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:08 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Firing Comey won't end the Russia investigation.

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/trump-...stigation-yet/
Who are you and what did you do with Puppycow?

Firing Comey taints the investigation, and once Trump appoints a toadie, it will subvert the investigation. The senate doesn't have a staff to speak of. They depend on the FBI. The House committee has already been blown up.

Whatever Comey's failings, the real "failing" is that Trump couldn't control him. This is a bare naked attempt to subvert the investigation, no less obvious than when Nixon fired Cox.

The notion that Comey's handling of Clinton -- which delighted Trump and earned his praise --- is the actual reason is ******** on steroids. Doesn't pass the giggle test.
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Last edited by varwoche; 10th May 2017 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:12 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Who are you and what did you do with Puppycow?

Firing Comey taints the investigation, and once Trump appoints a toadie, it will subvert the investigation. The senate doesn't have a staff to speak of. They depend on the FBI. The House committee has already been blown up.

Whatever Comey's failings, the real "failing" is that Trumo couldn't control him. This is a bare naked attempt to subvert the investigation, no less obvious than when Nixon fired Cox.

The notion that Comey's treatment of Clinton is the actual reason is ******** on steroids. Doesn't pass the giggle test.
Unfortunately, the GOP-controlled House and Senate will not want to cause waves w.r.t. the Trump administration and so Trump will be free to install his own creature as FBI director and then he'll have the choice of letting the FBI investigation wither and die or indeed direct it to exonerate him completely and instead blame Obama.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:16 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this...
I'd think Washington area chiropractors are in boom times...

...treating for whiplash.

On both sides.

"Comey - Hero or Goat?"

From the left:

Declines to prosecute Hillary: Hero.

Informs congress of potential evidence coming to light in the investigation: Goat.

Fired by Trump: Hero.

And from the right, flip everything 180.

Fascinating to watch, but in a "car wreck" sort of way.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:20 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Unfortunately, the GOP-controlled House and Senate will not want to cause waves w.r.t. the Trump administration and so Trump will be free to install his own creature as FBI director and then he'll have the choice of letting the FBI investigation wither and die or indeed direct it to exonerate him completely and instead blame Obama.
I'm hopeful that this time it's a step too far, and that a special prosecutor will be appointed. This depends on republicans like McCain and Sasse gaining traction.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:20 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I'd think Washington area chiropractors are in boom times...

...treating for whiplash.

On both sides.

"Comey - Hero or Goat?"

From the left:

Declines to prosecute Hillary: Hero.

Informs congress of potential evidence coming to light in the investigation: Goat.

Fired by Trump: Hero.

And from the right, flip everything 180.

Fascinating to watch, but in a "car wreck" sort of way.
Is anyone on the Democratic Party side suggesting that Comey is/was a hero ?

I thought that their issue wasn't that Comey was fired but rather the timing of the firing and suspicions about the motives for the firing.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:23 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Is anyone on the Democratic Party side suggesting that Comey is/was a hero ?

I thought that their issue wasn't that Comey was fired but rather the timing of the firing and suspicions about the motives for the firing.
I'll grant that "hero" is a bit too strong a word.

But they sure are quick now to defend someone they were certainly demonizing a very short time ago.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:24 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm hopeful that this time it's a step too far, and that a special prosecutor will be appointed. This depends on republicans like McCain and Sasse gaining traction.
I know little about Sasse, but for decades IMO McCain has talked a good game but when push comes to shove he meekly falls in line with the party.

I don't think that McCain will do anything material with respect to this. He may make noises about "considering" doing things but in the end he'll capitulate.

By firing Comey, and installing his own man, Trump will have managed to stop all investigations into links with Russia.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:25 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I'll grant that "hero" is a bit too strong a word.

But they sure are quick now to defend someone they were certainly demonizing a very short time ago.
The know firsthand that Comey can do massive damage, and they consider it unfair that after having done his worst on Clinton he won't be given the chance to do the same to Trump.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:27 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I'll grant that "hero" is a bit too strong a word.

But they sure are quick now to defend someone they were certainly demonizing a very short time ago.
Are they defending Comey, because I haven't heard that from this side of the Atlantic. What I have heard is that, given the praise heaped on Comey by Trump during and immediately after the election campaign w.r.t. the e-mail investigation, it's strange that he's being fired for that same thing.

Instead they are questioning motives and suggesting that this has more to do with killing off the Russia investigations.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:34 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
genius.

(kisses fingers in the French fashion)
You do know that this isn't a counter-argument, right?

This is basically all you're doing these days: call something silly, laugh it off, and ignore it. Gee, that's some mighty skepticism, there.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
He didn't do that. Instead he fired Comey while explaining it was because of Clinton.
Which is ridiculous. It makes no sense to fire him now for something that happened six months ago when he had plenty of time to do it right off the bat, and when there's a much better explanation available. And this is besides the fact that Trump thought Comey's behaviour back then was a-ok.

And since Trump never tells the truth, you know that what he says is also a lie.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The Big Dog don't deal in partisan speculation.

Facts, I need facts.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:37 AM   #262
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:41 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by KoihimeNakamura View Post
Well, it looks like the narrative is starting, at least:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/10/politi...nvestigations/
The only mistake Trump made is not firing these people on day one. Its the same mistake Bush made.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:44 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Are they defending Comey, because I haven't heard that from this side of the Atlantic. What I have heard is that, given the praise heaped on Comey by Trump during and immediately after the election campaign w.r.t. the e-mail investigation, it's strange that he's being fired for that same thing.

Instead they are questioning motives and suggesting that this has more to do with killing off the Russia investigations.
The Russian investigation killed itself off, for lack of evidence.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:45 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Was Comey investigating Trump?

This is just another brilliant move by Trump. It was clearly done to make the left explode. BOOM!
Because tribal politics is all that matters now.

Quote:
When is your side going to realize you'll never beat him, you'll never get him. this all looks very easy to him.
He's quoted as saying it's much harder than he thought. Are you done making stuff up?
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:47 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
The Russian investigation killed itself off, for lack of evidence.
If lack of evidence is what kills an investigation, why was it that Benghazi lasted that long?
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:48 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Those are 16 groups that may be making claims, but they have presented zero evidence. Claims without evidence belong over there.
Isn't the purpose of the whole forum to examine claims? That's why we have sections for various topics.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:55 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why do you keep on insisting that someone must reach a conclusion given the lack of evidence?
There's plenty of evidence, Bob.

Being skeptical doesn't prevent one from recognising even weak evidence, nor should it stop us from reaching conclusions based on incomplete evidence.
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Old 10th May 2017, 04:58 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
If lack of evidence is what kills an investigation, why was it that Benghazi lasted that long?
Because key issues were not resolved. Like who ordered the stand down.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:00 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Because tribal politics is all that matters now.
As it always has?

Quote:
He's quoted as saying it's much harder than he thought. Are you done making stuff up?
How is my opinion that this looks easy to him, me making things up?
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:00 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
So please stop freaking out. He was fired for cause.
He should've been fired by Obama, then. Trump coming in six months later to fire him on something he agreed with back then sounds like he's firing him for something else and --- oh, look! He was investigating Trump at the time. Yeah, sure, I'll buy that.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:01 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
There's plenty of evidence, Bob.

Being skeptical doesn't prevent one from recognising even weak evidence, nor should it stop us from reaching conclusions based on incomplete evidence.
Evidence that Trump was involved? Funny people involved keep saying there isn't any evidence.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:03 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
He should've been fired by Obama, then. Trump coming in six months later to fire him on something he agreed with back then sounds like he's firing him for something else and --- oh, look! He was investigating Trump at the time. Yeah, sure, I'll buy that.
lol
You don't think Obama firing him would have brought the same melt downs?
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:04 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
And the hacking of voter registration databases? The fake/doctored emails? The fact our voting machines are not secure and demonstrably have not been since the mid 2000s? The statistical analyses that show anomalies in pro-Clinton precincts and counties?

There is more than enough evidence to invalidate this so-called election, if not outright declare Clinton the rightful winner.
First, evidence for the highlighted?

Second, there is no mechanism to invalidate an election like you suggest. The election is over, Trump won. That's a simple fact. Whether he stays in office may be a different matter.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:07 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
As it always has?
Speak for yourself, and let those with some moral fibre handle these things.

Quote:
Evidence that Trump was involved?
You can't possibly be this sheltered. Of course you know, but you ignore it because it suits your bias. You've pretty much admitted that.

Quote:
You don't think Obama firing him would have brought the same melt downs?
Why would it? Just wait until Comey says no charge will be made against Clinton and then fire him for overstepping his authority. He didn't do that. Trump's excuse is just that.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:12 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politi...ry-fbi-russia/

Justice Department under Comey issued subpoena against Flynn, hours before he was fired?

Just a coincidence.

There's nothing there.

Look away!!!! Look away!!!!

Huh?

By the way, scuttlebutt is that the administration was looking for reasons to fire Comey for a week, so the explanation for the firing can't be something that happened yesterday.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:13 AM   #277
varwoche
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why do you keep on insisting that someone must reach a conclusion given the lack of evidence? Investigators are free to do as they wish. If they make a claim, they are responsible for presenting evidence. Until then, I don't have a conclusion about who did what when.
We know for a fact that...
  • Trump flat out lied about his relationship with Putin
  • Trump flat out lied about his role in GOP platform concerning Ukraine
  • Manafort flat out lied about his/Trump role in GOP platform
  • Manafort flat out lied about his deep Russian relationships
  • Flynn flat out lied about his Russian contacts
  • Trump lied by omission about Flynn's contacts
  • Sessions flat out lied about his Russian contacts
  • Carter Page flat out lied about his Russian contacts
  • Various campaign officials lied about Page's relationship with the campaign
  • Roger Stone flat out lied about his Russian contacts
  • Trump is pretending that Manafort was minimally involved in the campaign
  • Trump remains evasive about Flynn to this day
  • Trump Jr acknowledged significant Russian money coming into the business, but Trump now denies
  • Trump openly encouraged Russia to hack Clinton

"Lack of evidence"? On Planet X maybe.
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Last edited by varwoche; 10th May 2017 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:13 AM   #278
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I think that for the most part they haven't forgotten anything. Questioning Trump's motives for firing him now is not the same as suddenly deciding that his actions and behavior before had somehow become okay.
I could be wrong, but it's not every day the POTUS fires the head of the FBI.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:18 AM   #279
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Isn't the purpose of the whole forum to examine claims? That's why we have sections for various topics.
This forum has no mission statement or stated theme. Therefore it has no identifiable purpose.
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Old 10th May 2017, 05:20 AM   #280
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Comey's dismissal is not sitting well with the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GlennThru...69645197373440

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenatorBu...91699534921729

Last edited by Stacko; 10th May 2017 at 05:21 AM.
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