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Tags classified information , donald trump , national security issues , Trump controversies

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Old 15th May 2017, 08:59 PM   #241
phiwum
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Holy ****! Donald Trump did something stupid! You've got him now, progs!
I don't see too many people saying that this one event will cause Trump to be removed. The Scum surely said nothing remotely like that.

I suppose it must feel good to mock others, but imagine how nice it would feel if there was a smidgen of truth in your snark.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:00 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Holy ****! Donald Trump did something stupid! You've got him now, progs!
Yes, the real problem worth criticizing isn't Trump doing something stupid and damaging to US interests, it's people complaining about it.

Is this what you've become? Just another conservative that cares more about attacking progressives than anything else in politics?
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:01 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Holy ****! Donald Trump did something stupid! You've got him now, progs!
And right wingers don't give a **** about how many stupid things Donald Trump does. For the sole reason that he's a Republican.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:05 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
If this intelligence leak really happened, Trump committed at least one felony if he did not specifically declassify or clear the Russians to receive it. I'm pretty sure the President just blurting out information is not the same as declassifying it.
That hasn't had to be established before, as far as I know.

Quote:
Either way, he caused "exceptionally grave damage", as it says on all the materials I have to rebrief on what seems like every six weeks, to our national security. He may not have specifically named "sources and methods", as McMaster's carefully-worded excuse said, but he certainly compromised them. He also caused significant damage to our relationship with the intelligence service of whatever ally furnished us with this information, receiving in return our guarantee we would keep it safe.
The impact extends to all intelligence services who share information, since they could be treated equally cavilierly. It confirms their worst fears.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:14 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Holy ****! Donald Trump did something stupid! You've got him now, progs!
Any chance you'll explain the sarcasm? Did I make an error? Is there something I'm missing? Or perhaps you think Trump is above reproach?

Be a big boy. Use your words.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:20 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
That hasn't had to be established before, as far as I know.
True; we haven't had such an actively damaging individual become President before.

Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
The impact extends to all intelligence services who share information, since they could be treated equally cavilierly. It confirms their worst fears.
You're absolutely correct; once again, we've trashed our relationship with our allies so that Trump can do tricks for his Russian paymasters. But, hey, at least they get to have a laugh.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:21 PM   #247
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:52 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
And right wingers don't give a **** about how many stupid things Donald Trump does. For the sole reason that he's a Republican.
The denial doesn't just border on denial, it's immersed in it to the deepest depths.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:54 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Any chance you'll explain the sarcasm? Did I make an error? Is there something I'm missing? Or perhaps you think Trump is above reproach?

Be a big boy. Use your words.
I believe he, and others in the Trump fan club, are bragging that Trump can get away with anything and everything.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:55 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I believe he, and others in the Trump fan club, are bragging that Trump can get away with anything and everything.
Because Republicans let him. Because they are worthless pieces of crap.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:59 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Clever! This is why Steven gets paid $$$
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:01 PM   #252
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My God: even Fox News just ran an article fairly critical of Trump and skeptical of the denials!

This has all the feel of something that will only gain traction over the next days and weeks.

I respectively urge the Trump supporters here to not assume this is a fake story. The ability of Trump to lie to and embarrass his strongest supporters is well established. Trump has hired people who are well respected to enhance the credibility of his administration. But they only quickly lose their own credibility, as the current topic suggests will be true once again.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:08 PM   #253
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"So, I just told the Big Bad Wolf 'I know where the Three Little Pigs are'! And their real names! And he said, 'I don't believe it'. And I said, 'Yes, really. One is in Afghanistan, one is in Yemen, and the third one, don't tell anyone, is in Moscow.'"
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:12 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post


thanks for that !
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:16 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Unless the House and Senate are turned to Democratic party control in 2018. If that happens, he'll be impeached as soon as the Democrats take over.

I'm actually uncomfortable with that situation for the simple fact that it would certainly be sneered at and spit upon as an entirely left-driven action. While being the correct course of action in my opinion, it would only give certain individuals on the right even more reason to pull away.

There would either need to be significant support from high profile Republicans if the Democrats are the majority, or the Republicans themselves would have to be the ones to bring any action (soon, or if they maintain power).

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
A real denial would be them outright claiming that your hero did not share with the Russians highly classified info given to the US by an ally. Instead they play word games intended to decieve credulous morons.

Trump's staff is at least semi-intelligent. Give it another day or two and Trump himself will explicitly deny having ever said anything.

Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
If this intelligence leak really happened, Trump committed at least one felony if he did not specifically declassify or clear the Russians to receive it. I'm pretty sure the President just blurting out information is not the same as declassifying it.

Yeah. I don't know the EO that allows this, but I can't imagine that it allows for declassification without any kind of formal process or declaration.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 15th May 2017 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:24 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Can we just have him shoot someone on Fifth Avenue so we can watch them defend it? Republicans are essentially leveraging a treasonous president to get tax cuts and dismantle social safety net.
For all the patriotic posturing, I am betting that most republican at the top are not caring much beyond their own wealth, not even for their own country. They just pretend to do, but when it comes to them, they probably feel above that.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:32 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
People need to stop treating an argument of legal fact as endorsement.
Bob, you need to get out of your hole. Come to the world. Come where all of us live. And accept this fundamental problem with politic.

Like it or not, EVERY SINGLE TIME you support something to be legal in this forum, without added disclaimer that this is morally repugnant and should be properly made illegal or unconstitutional, you are EFFECTIVELY telling everybody it is OK to do it.

Sure I understand you think those are two different things. Legality and morality. But the real world is unfortunately more black and white when it comes to such argument. That battle was lost long ago.

Every. Single. Time. You. Say. Something. Is. Legal. But. Do. Not. Condemn. It. You. Are. Effectively. Telling. Us. You. Are. OK. With. It.

Clear ?

ETA: This is not a personal attack or at least not written as such. it is a simple statement that most people will simply jump to that conclusion. If you don't believe me go to the average person in the street, and tell them torture is fairly legal. present them the same argument you presented here.

Last edited by Aepervius; 15th May 2017 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:33 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Holy ****! Donald Trump did something stupid! You've got him now, progs!
I find the carelessness with which you take all of that amusing.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:43 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
I find the carelessness with which you take all of that amusing.
It's not careless, at all. It's a planned-out strategy. Belittle the people who are criticizing Trump rather than defend Trump. It affords plausible deniability that their position is enabling and supporting Trump. "Hey, I never said I like the guy. I'm just pointing out what flaming ********** you lefties are!"

This has been the ploy since last summer. They know he's a pitiful excuse for a human and completely ill-suited for the office, but he's who they got stuck with on the right, so they'll put up with his minor peccadillos (cough) rather than vote for or support moderate (yet true) conservatives like Clinton and Obama. So they'll attack the Straw Liberal rather than support the actual miscreant.
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Old 15th May 2017, 10:51 PM   #260
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Trump quotes

"Crooked Hillary Clinton and her team 'were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.' Not fit!"
-July 6, 2016

"The real scandal here is that classified information is illegally given out by 'intelligence' like candy. Very un-American!"
-Feb 15 2017

"Are you allowed to impeach a president for gross incompetence?"
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Old 15th May 2017, 11:43 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This has all the feel of something that will only gain traction over the next days and weeks.
I disagree.

Remember in the dim, distant, past of last week when the firing of Comey was headline news ? A significant proportion of the US electorate don't. Remember even longer ago when President Trump claimed that his predecessor had bugged him and his campaign ? Well that puts you in the top 10%. Remember when the Attorney General committed perjury during his confirmation hearing ? Congratulations, you could get a job as political correspondent on any paper in the country.

This will go the way of all other Trump scandals and gaffes. The GOP will drag its heels and do nothing for fear of damaging its own reputation and the press and most importantly, the Great American Public, will lose interest in the next few days when the next shiny titbit comes along.

I think President Trump understands this. If you keep swirling the pond water around, no-one can see anything. It's only if you let it settle for a little while that people can tell what's going on.
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:13 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I disagree.

Remember in the dim, distant, past of last week when the firing of Comey was headline news ? A significant proportion of the US electorate don't. Remember even longer ago when President Trump claimed that his predecessor had bugged him and his campaign ? Well that puts you in the top 10%. Remember when the Attorney General committed perjury during his confirmation hearing ? Congratulations, you could get a job as political correspondent on any paper in the country.

This will go the way of all other Trump scandals and gaffes. The GOP will drag its heels and do nothing for fear of damaging its own reputation and the press and most importantly, the Great American Public, will lose interest in the next few days when the next shiny titbit comes along.

I think President Trump understands this. If you keep swirling the pond water around, no-one can see anything. It's only if you let it settle for a little while that people can tell what's going on.

You are probably right about the public in general (with its legendary 'memory of a goldfish') and the press but, like others have previously alluded to in this thread, members of allied intelligence departments will definitely not forget this gaffe. Damage is done. And they have an excellent memory (they're paid for having one).
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:17 AM   #263
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But Clinton's e-mail server...
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:24 AM   #264
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Just in case anyone is unclear on the nature of the Trump, Putin relationship.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (45.4 KB, 8 views)
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:26 AM   #265
The Don
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Originally Posted by Alphaba View Post
You are probably right about the public in general (with its legendary 'memory of a goldfish') and the press but, like others have previously alluded to in this thread, members of allied intelligence departments will definitely not forget this gaffe. Damage is done. And they have an excellent memory (they're paid for having one).
Excellent point, but unless the GOP is prepared to do something then the international intelligence community can do what they like. If they stop providing the US with intelligence then worst case there is an attack on US interests and the US blames the foreign powers for not sharing their intelligence.
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:34 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Excellent point, but unless the GOP is prepared to do something then the international intelligence community can do what they like.
Like leaking dossiers on Trump?
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:46 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I've been trying to track down just who was in the meeting. It would help to know just how many were actually present.
Check the Russian press article photos, The Russians were allowed to photograph the meeting, but USA photographers weren't.
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:49 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You are probably right..........make it 7 year olds.
Most 7 year olds have grasped the concept of right and wrong and why they shouldn't lie.
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:51 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
"We have awesome nuclear launch codes in Russia. So much better than yours."

"Oh yeah! Get that football in here and we'll show him who has the best launch codes!"
We will have to wait until the smoke clears and radiation levels drop in order to measure the destruction to see who won
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Old 16th May 2017, 01:05 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Most 7 year olds have grasped the concept of right and wrong and why they shouldn't lie.
I remembered when a large field of apple trees we're cut down and the only person there was Trump holding a gold-plated chainsaw behind his back and claiming that he didn't do it, so I decided to jump into a sinking boat of Trump supporters and take his word.
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Old 16th May 2017, 01:11 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Check the Russian press article photos, The Russians were allowed to photograph the meeting, but USA photographers weren't.
The is because Trump was afraid that American reporters would report that he passed on secrets to the Russians.
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Old 16th May 2017, 01:18 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If they stop providing the US with intelligence then worst case there is an attack on US interests and the US blames the foreign powers for not sharing their intelligence.

How would they blame anyone if they don't know which intelligence hasn't been shared with them?
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Old 16th May 2017, 01:35 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Alphaba View Post
How would they blame anyone if they don't know which intelligence hasn't been shared with them?
They couldn't take the blame themselves so they would blame others. I suspect that it would be *known* within the intelligence services that information had been known but not shared. Foreign intelligence services would be a convenient scapegoat if US interests overseas are damaged or if there is any foreign link to an attack on US soil.
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Old 16th May 2017, 01:39 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Like leaking dossiers on Trump?
Yup - and the GOP is still (publicly) solidly behind Trump.
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Old 16th May 2017, 02:03 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think if I was in the CIA or one of the other lettered agencies responsible for secrets, I'd be fast looking for a way to stop giving Trump anything vital that he could spill to whoever happens to be in the room at the time he wants to feel important.
There's technology that makes for a better solution. We put Trump in one of those plastic bubbles that some kids have to live in because they are so sensitive. Then we install an electronic communication system with the outside world that has a 7 second delay. The heads of the various security and military agencies take turns monitoring the tape delay.

Solved!!
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Old 16th May 2017, 02:22 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
We're dealing with the left, they deal with everything through emotion.
Originally Posted by logger View Post
It just gives off the air of fake.
You're cute, logger.
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Old 16th May 2017, 03:24 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
You're cute, logger.
brace yourself for what your first clue is.

Trump:
“I see NATO as a good thing.” (Washington Post, March 21, 2016)
“I think NATO is obsolete.” (ABC News, March 27, 2016)

In favor of invading Iraq? “Yeah, I guess so.” (The Howard Stern Show, September 11, 2002)
“It looks like a tremendous success from a military standpoint.” (Fox Business, March 21, 2003)
“The war’s a mess.” (Washington Post, March 25, 2003)

Barack Obama is “a strong guy who really knows what he wants.” (Fox News, February 9, 2009)
“Here’s a man that not only got elected, I think he’s doing a really good job.” (CNN, April 15, 2009)
“He’s been a horrible president.” (Fox News, April 14, 2011)
“Barack Obama has been the worst president ever.” (Fox News, April 14, 2011)

Do you think there would ever be any benefit in pointing out to Trump how completely and frequently he contradicts himself?
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Old 16th May 2017, 03:28 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
One has to wonder why Trump is so obsessed with finding leakers if all the supposed leaks are just fake news that the corrupt media makes up.
That's Trump's kettle logic, "The story is a lie and the people who leaked it broke the law." It works on his dedicated believers.
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Old 16th May 2017, 03:29 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Did you have to quote Nixon?
In this case it is true, the president can not commit treason in this regard. Anyone else and they would be going away for a very long time.

It is like with conflicts of interest and all kinds of ethical rules that apply to everyone in the administration but the president.
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Old 16th May 2017, 03:46 AM   #280
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If not for the Washington Post story, the Russians would have devastating kompromat on the president. He lacks the cognitive faculties to execute the duties of his office. He should resign but he won't. The cabinet should be considering the using the 25th Amendment but they won't.
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