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Old 19th May 2017, 03:10 AM   #1
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Politicians treated worse than Trump

According to Trump, "No politician in history...has been treated worse or more unfairly [as himself]". I think a fair few politicians might disagree.

• Four US presidents have been assassinated while in office. I bet they felt they were treated more unfairly.

• As British historian Dan Snow pointed out, Roman emperor Valerian was "Captured in battle, enslaved, used as a foot-stool, forced to drink molten gold and…"

• Another unfortunate politician was Dutch Prime Minister Johan de Witt, who was lynched and eaten - yes, eaten - by an angry mob in 1672.

Does anyone have any more?
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:12 AM   #2
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The immediate reactions included Mandela and Gandhi.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:23 AM   #3
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Ronald Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt both survived unsuccessful assassination attempts.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
The immediate reactions included Mandela and Gandhi.
They were activists, not politicians.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:34 AM   #5
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Trump claims not to be a politician if we want to get pedantic
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
According to Trump, "No politician in history...has been treated worse or more unfairly [as himself]". I think a fair few politicians might disagree.

• Four US presidents have been assassinated while in office. I bet they felt they were treated more unfairly.

• As British historian Dan Snow pointed out, Roman emperor Valerian was "Captured in battle, enslaved, used as a foot-stool, forced to drink molten gold and…"

• Another unfortunate politician was Dutch Prime Minister Johan de Witt, who was lynched and eaten - yes, eaten - by an angry mob in 1672.

Does anyone have any more?
[obvious Trump rebuttal]Ha! But they deserved it, so they were treated fairly! Whereas I Trump don't deserve this treatment! Sad! [/obvious Trump rebuttal]

As for the highlighted.
Not completely. We still have his tongue and the thumb of his brother in a museum here.

Hmmm. Apparently they are on display right now. So. Come to visit The Hague to watch how we used to treat unpopular politicians.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:38 AM   #7
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Haile Selassie was buried under a toilet, IIRC.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Trump claims not to be a politician if we want to get pedantic ; )
I can see wanting to get pedantic. But why would we want to accept Trump's definitions of things?
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:41 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
According to Trump, "No politician in history...has been treated worse or more unfairly [as himself]". I think a fair few politicians might disagree.
I think he said/meant treated by the press.
Or did he not?
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:42 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They were activists, not politicians.
Politicians are people who professionally engage in politics. Being elected certainly helps, but is not required.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Trump claims not to be a politician if we want to get pedantic
He doesn't need to be a politician himself in order to claim that no politician was treaded more unfairly than him, if we want to get really pedantic
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:45 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I think he said/meant treated by the press.
Or did he not?
"Look at the way I have been treated lately, especially by the media," he said. "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly. You can't let them get you down, you can't let the critics and the naysayers get in the way of your dreams."

He singled out the media for their treatment of him but he went further.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
"Look at the way I have been treated lately, especially by the media," he said. "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly. You can't let them get you down, you can't let the critics and the naysayers get in the way of your dreams."

He singled out the media for their treatment of him but he went further.
Did he go further? Or did his singling out of the media set the context for the remarks that followed?
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I think he said/meant treated by the press.
Or did he not?
How did the contemporary press treat Lincoln? All sunshine and lollipops, I'm sure.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:52 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Did he go further? Or did his singling out of the media set the context for the remarks that followed?
You use especially to single out one group above the others without removing the others. If he had not used especially it would have set a different context for the remarks that followed. He was identifying the media as the worse offenders but not ruling out other offenders.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:54 AM   #16
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If we're going to insist on elected representatives, then:

I'm sure there is a lengthy list of politicians killed in office.
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Old 19th May 2017, 03:56 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
How did the contemporary press treat Lincoln? All sunshine and lollipops, I'm sure.
Well, they probably didn't make Lincoln drink molten gold, which is the kind of treatment that was on the table in this thread a moment ago. I think we're making progress.

I also think it would be mildly amusing to see a Snopes or a Politifact go through the exercise of actually trying to evaluate who got it worse from the press: Trump or Lincoln.

Other mildly amusing matchups: Obama or Bush, and for the undercard, Secretary Clinton or Secretary Rice.
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, they probably didn't make Lincoln drink molten gold, which is the kind of treatment that was on the table in this thread a moment ago. I think we're making progress.
I missed that post.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I also think it would be mildly amusing to see a Snopes or a Politifact go through the exercise of actually trying to evaluate who got it worse from the press: Trump or Lincoln.
Trump or Obama, including things said by Trump about Obama and things said about their First Ladies.
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:24 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I missed that post.


Trump or Obama, including things said by Trump about Obama and things said about their First Ladies.
Trump isn't the press.
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:31 AM   #20
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In Trump's mind, him being treated with anything but praise is by definition unfair.

It is beyond his comprehension that the media can run negative stories about him and be fair at the same time.
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Old 19th May 2017, 05:23 AM   #21
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Hillary Clinton.
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Old 19th May 2017, 05:50 AM   #22
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Not as many people took a stab at Julius Caesar as they have at Trump but in Caesar's case they used actual knives.
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:05 AM   #23
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Budd Dwyer. I think Trump would do well to study the career of that particular politician.
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:12 AM   #24
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He's not even the worst-treated fascist (Mussolini was).
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:32 AM   #25
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I think you could make a decent list of politicians treated more unfairly by Trump himself. For example, I don't think anyone has ever gone so far as to accuse Trump's father of being connected to the Kennedy assassination.
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Budd Dwyer. I think Trump would do well to study the career of that particular politician.
Wow, I'd forgotten about him.
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
He's not even the worst-treated fascist (Mussolini was).
Without going to the fascist comparison (our alt-right members get all twitchy), he's not even the worst-treated populist demagogue. Huey Long was hounded by the press, had the New Dealers sic the IRS on him and all his friends and cronies, was lampooned and harpooned in the press and then was kinda killed while on one of his extra-constitutional visits to the Louisiana state house.

On the bright side maybe this generation's Robert Penn Warren will get a Pulitzer Prize winning roman a clef out of Trump's mercurial political career.
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Trump isn't the press.
The press certainly didn't shy away from giving him air time.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:35 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Come to visit The Hague to watch how we used to treat unpopular politicians.
That's a bit unfair. Political murders in the Netherlands have been quite rare.

Johan de Witt's predecessor Johan van Oldenbarnevelt was executed on trumped-up charges some 50 years earlier, initiated by prince Maurice of Orange, and in 2002, Pim Fortuyn was murdered by an animal rights activist.

Those are the only ones that come to mind. On the other hand, two of them I'd rate among the top-10 Dutch statesmen of all times.

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Not as many people took a stab at Julius Caesar as they have at Trump but in Caesar's case they used actual knives.
And while we're on the topic of the last days of the Roman Republic:
1) Sulla's proscriptions of 82BC against Marius supporters (Caesar lucked out there, being Marius' nephew)
2) Octavius' proscriptions against their political opponents, including Cicero.

Oh, and I think Charles I of England and Louis XVI of France would also like to have a word with the Orange Führer on this topic.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:56 AM   #30
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Lady Jane Grey would beg to differ with The Donald.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:56 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Oh, and I think Charles I of England would also like to have a word with the Orange Führer on this topic.
That's true.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:24 AM   #32
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Mary Queen of Scots.

Jean-Paul Marat. AFAIK, Drumpf can still safely take a bath.

ETA: and while we're on the French Revolution, the list is seemingly endless. Even incorruptible people weren't safe.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:27 AM   #33
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Matthias Erzberger, the German Centre MP who signed the 11 November 1918 Armistice and was later murdered. His assassins got away with it.

Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg. Murdered by Ebert's government for being the press, and unceremoniously dumped in the Landsberg canal.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:41 AM   #34
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Empirically, what does it mean to be treated unfairly (not a Trump definition where expects only accolades and praise)?

For me, I can see a politician being treated unfairly if:
  • Die in an assassination or suffer from an attempt
  • Unjustly prosecuted
  • Inaccurately report on by the press (of course there is wide latitude on how this can be interpreted)
  • Face a significant number of false accusations

I have seen no evidence that Trump has received any of this to justify his claim.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:45 AM   #35
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Perhaps the former president who was hectored for years by a certain politician - er, I mean, businessman - over an obviously dumb, racist conspiracy theory focused on his birth certificate?

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Old 19th May 2017, 08:51 AM   #36
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Willy Brandt. He had to resign just because his personal secretary was an East-German spy.
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Old 19th May 2017, 09:12 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
How did the contemporary press treat Lincoln? All sunshine and lollipops, I'm sure.
If we extend it beyond the press, it should be noted that a whole bunch of states responded to Lincoln's election by seceding. So far no states have seceded due to Trump's election, though I wouldn't be surprised if many have thought about it.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:01 AM   #38
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I am actually in agreement with 45*. He has certainly not been treated the way he deserves. Of course, I don't think he wants to be treated that way.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:04 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
That's a bit unfair. Political murders in the Netherlands have been quite rare.

Johan de Witt's predecessor Johan van Oldenbarnevelt was executed on trumped-up charges some 50 years earlier, initiated by prince Maurice of Orange, and in 2002, Pim Fortuyn was murdered by an animal rights activist.
Well, that's reassuring.
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Old 19th May 2017, 10:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
• As British historian Dan Snow pointed out, Roman emperor Valerian was "Captured in battle, enslaved, used as a foot-stool, forced to drink molten gold and…"
I wouldn't think there is any "and..." after that point. Ugh.

But it's funny to hear the Thumbsucker-in-Chief's fans talk about "snowflakes" when they elected the biggest crybaby ever. And then they whine about how their big tough fearless leader is bullied by those wienies in the press. Pathetic.
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