ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags socialism

Reply
Old 19th May 2017, 11:06 AM   #1
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
The biggest straw man

Question:

Why does the Right insist on using the problems in Venezuela as an example of why those who want 'socialism' in the US are wrong.

When Norway or Denmark or (insert wealthy, successful Democratic Socialist country here) start having those issues then they will have a point; who in their right mind uses Venezuela as a shining example of 'socialism', and why do those on the right insist on this glaring straw man?
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:07 AM   #2
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Question:

Why does the Right insist on using the problems in Venezuela as an example of why those who want 'socialism' in the US are wrong.

When Norway or Denmark or (insert wealthy, successful Democratic Socialist country here) start having those issues then they will have a point; who in their right mind uses Venezuela as a shining example of 'socialism', and why do those on the right insist on this glaring straw man?
Because there isn't much the US democrats disagree with Venezuela on.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:12 AM   #3
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because there isn't much the US democrats disagree with Venezuela on.
I'm going to need a citation for that gem. Sounds like you are one of the folks using that straw man. I certainly don't view Venezuela as a country to emulate.
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

Last edited by twinstead; 19th May 2017 at 11:14 AM.
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:13 AM   #4
Tony Stark
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,366
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because there isn't much the US democrats disagree with Venezuela on.
Outright lie.
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:16 AM   #5
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,876
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Question:

Why does the Right insist on using the problems in Venezuela as an example of why those who want 'socialism' in the US are wrong.

When Norway or Denmark or (insert wealthy, successful Democratic Socialist country here) start having those issues then they will have a point; who in their right mind uses Venezuela as a shining example of 'socialism', and why do those on the right insist on this glaring straw man?
Two reasons, as I see it: To get a rise out of 'leftists' so they can 'LOL look at the libtard leftists'. As for the second, because those that are making such a comparison are not very bright.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:17 AM   #6
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
I'm going to need a citation for that gem. Sounds like you are one of the folks using that straw man. I certainly don't view Venezuela as a country to emulate.
Lets try it this way. What specifically is Norway and Denmark doing differently than Venezuela?
And do Nor and Den consider themselves socialist?

And finally what specifically about Venezuelas socialist government would you do differently?
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:18 AM   #7
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Two reasons, as I see it: To get a rise out of 'leftists' so they can 'LOL look at the libtard leftists'. As for the second, because those that are making such a comparison are not very bright.
And of course the Venezuelan socialist are bright. Lol

Being so bright they should be dancin in the street!
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:22 AM   #8
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,725
Originally Posted by logger View Post
And of course the Venezuelan socialist are bright. Lol

Being so bright they should be dancin in the street!
That's a brilliant riposte, totally relevant and everything. He should never have said Venezuelan socialists are intelligent!

Way to show him!
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:24 AM   #9
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lets try it this way. What specifically is Norway and Denmark doing differently than Venezuela?
And do Nor and Den consider themselves socialist?

And finally what specifically about Venezuelas socialist government would you do differently?
https://www.quora.com/Are-Venezuela-...od-for-America

"Venezuela has virtually nothing in common with the strong mixed economies that Bernie Sanders points to a good models. Those being the Nordic countries and The Netherlands, among others. In those countries you see well regulated capitalism mixed with transparency in government, where social programs, policies and projects are managed. The latter are paid for by taxes generated by a strong economy, driven by high wages which results in a population with disposable income available to spend on wants rather than necessities. This is not to say there is zero greed in the private sector or zero corruption in the public sector. Those factors exist, but they are rare compared to places like Venezuela and the United States."
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:26 AM   #10
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
That's a brilliant riposte, totally relevant and everything. He should never have said Venezuelan socialists are intelligent!

Way to show him!
Yours sure made up for his.

Now on to answering my questions!
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:28 AM   #11
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
 
Spindrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Right here!
Posts: 17,948
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yours sure made up for his.

Now on to answering my questions!
How about answering the question in the OP first?
__________________
I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.
Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon
Spindrift is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:29 AM   #12
Tony Stark
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,366
Norway and Denmark have about as much economic freedom as the US does. But they have higher taxes and social spending which makes for a better society for everyone.
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:30 AM   #13
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,725
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Yours sure made up for his.

Now on to answering my questions!
Sorry, your questions about socialism are no concern of mine. Your utter non-sequiturs, however, ought to be called out from time to time.

I have no opinion on which socialist nations are true socialist nations and I'm not interested in pushing for socialism in the U.S.
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:30 AM   #14
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,652
Since the end of WW2, pretty much every second prime minister and cabinet in Norway has been from the right. Currently we have the most right wing government since we became a democracy.

I think labeling Scandinavia as socialist has more to do with American definitions than with political reality. Remember that many in the US claim Obama is a marxist communist!
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:32 AM   #15
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
https://www.quora.com/Are-Venezuela-...od-for-America

"Venezuela has virtually nothing in common with the strong mixed economies that Bernie Sanders points to a good models. Those being the Nordic countries and The Netherlands, among others. In those countries you see well regulated capitalism mixed with transparency in government, where social programs, policies and projects are managed. The latter are paid for by taxes generated by a strong economy, driven by high wages which results in a population with disposable income available to spend on wants rather than necessities. This is not to say there is zero greed in the private sector or zero corruption in the public sector. Those factors exist, but they are rare compared to places like Venezuela and the United States."
So what is the difference? Need more specifics.
Venezuela has well regulated capitalism. Hell they even have oil, something those others don't have.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:33 AM   #16
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,459
Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Norway and Denmark have about as much economic freedom as the US does. But they have higher taxes and social spending which makes for a better society for everyone.
You don't get to define what constitutes "better" in this discussion. You can put out what you think matters, and the rest of us can decide for ourselves if it is better.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:35 AM   #17
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Since the end of WW2, pretty much every second prime minister and cabinet in Norway has been from the right. Currently we have the most right wing government since we became a democracy.

I think labeling Scandinavia as socialist has more to do with American definitions than with political reality. Remember that many in the US claim Obama is a marxist communist!
Its fascinating how well your country is doing, I hear it constantly from the left. When is someone going to do a comparison so the rest of the world can emulate it.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:36 AM   #18
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sorry, your questions about socialism are no concern of mine. Your utter non-sequiturs, however, ought to be called out from time to time.

I have no opinion on which socialist nations are true socialist nations and I'm not interested in pushing for socialism in the U.S.
Well I'm sure glad you're there to set me straight.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:37 AM   #19
TraneWreck
Philosopher
 
TraneWreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,929
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Two reasons, as I see it: To get a rise out of 'leftists' so they can 'LOL look at the libtard leftists'. As for the second, because those that are making such a comparison are not very bright.
Thread should have ended here.
TraneWreck is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:39 AM   #20
Tony Stark
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,366
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
You don't get to define what constitutes "better" in this discussion. You can put out what you think matters, and the rest of us can decide for ourselves if it is better.
I don't decide, reality does. And reality says that lots of people in America die because they can't afford healthcare while other countries are able to eliminate that problem.
Tony Stark is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:40 AM   #21
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
Originally Posted by logger View Post
So what is the difference? Need more specifics.
Venezuela has well regulated capitalism. Hell they even have oil, something those others don't have.
You should ask yourself why Bolivia is thriving and Venezuela isn't: The difference is fiscal prudence
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:43 AM   #22
logger
Suspended
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,906
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
You should ask yourself why Bolivia is thriving and Venezuela isn't: The difference is fiscal prudence
Sure, I'd love to know!

What does fiscal prudence mean though? How does a socialist country be prudent with spending? It kinda goes against socialism.
logger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:44 AM   #23
BobTheCoward
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,459
Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
I don't decide, reality does. And reality says that lots of people in America die because they can't afford healthcare while other countries are able to eliminate that problem.
See! that is an actual comparison. It is up to everyone else to decide if that is better or not.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:53 AM   #24
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,235
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Sure, I'd love to know!

What does fiscal prudence mean though? How does a socialist country be prudent with spending? It kinda goes against socialism.
One, they don't spend so much on the military. And two, they actually tax the wealthy more.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:53 AM   #25
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Sure, I'd love to know!

What does fiscal prudence mean though? How does a socialist country be prudent with spending? It kinda goes against socialism.
Venezuela nationalized private businesses, and the government was totalitarian, corrupt, and inept. That a bad combination for any political type.
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:54 AM   #26
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,876
Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Thread should have ended here.
And from replies I've seen after my post, I can see I was correct!
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 11:58 AM   #27
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 10,193
Originally Posted by logger View Post
Its fascinating how well your country is doing, I hear it constantly from the left. When is someone going to do a comparison so the rest of the world can emulate it.
Who woulda thunk that such comparisons actually exist?

Health care - US the worst in developed world

Life expectancy - US #31, behind every western euro country

Economic freedom - US #17, tied with Denmark

Academic achievement - US lags behind

Voter participation: U.S. trails most developed countries

You're welcome!
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
SCOTUS death watch
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 12:07 PM   #28
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,919
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Question:

Why does the Right insist on using the problems in Venezuela as an example of why those who want 'socialism' in the US are wrong.

When Norway or Denmark or (insert wealthy, successful Democratic Socialist country here) start having those issues then they will have a point; who in their right mind uses Venezuela as a shining example of 'socialism', and why do those on the right insist on this glaring straw man?
Mmm, slight correction: Neither Norway nor Denmark is a socialist country.

Hans
__________________
Don't. Just don't.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 12:17 PM   #29
Tommy Jeppesen
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,644
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Mmm, slight correction: Neither Norway nor Denmark is a socialist country.

Hans
Yeah, some people don't understand the difference between a democratic socialist and a social democrat.
__________________
I don't believe in God and all the rest outside of methodological naturalism But I am a cognitive and ethical relativist/subjectivist and skeptic.
#JeSuisAhmed
Tommy Jeppesen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 01:01 PM   #30
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 43,196
Some people consider any economic system that doesn't involve actively yanking medicine out of the mouths of babies to be socialism.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 01:22 PM   #31
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Some people consider any economic system that doesn't involve actively yanking medicine out of the mouths of babies to be socialism.
...I was just about to say this
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 01:57 PM   #32
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,652
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Some people consider any economic system that doesn't involve actively yanking medicine out of the mouths of babies to be socialism.
Exaxtly. According to the American definitions of left and socialism, which developed country besides the USA is not leftist and socialist?
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 02:13 PM   #33
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,652
Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
Yeah, some people don't understand the difference between a democratic socialist and a social democrat.
In Norway, the social democrats have never held a majority in parliament. As I said previously in this thread, the PM and cabinet have been from the right around half the time since 1945. Most of the things that Americans point to to show Norway is a socialist country has broad support across the political spectrum.

As I also said previously, the current governing coalition is the most right wing we've ever had. If you come to Norway and try to tell us we're a socialist, or even social democratic, country, a lot of people will be confused.

Things like a welfare state, universal health care, regulations, etc, are usually not a right vs left issue in Europe. Socialist don't have a monopoly on these issues. I'm a big supporter of what we call the Nordic model, but I consider myself to be on the right and have never voted for any party on the left.

After all, the father of the modern welfare state in Europe was Otto von Bismarck, and I don't think any of his contemporaries would have ever dared call him a socialist to his face.

This has all to do with the American definition of socialism, which seems to be "whenever the government does anything, except for the military."
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 02:21 PM   #34
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,190
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Exaxtly. According to the American definitions of left and socialism, which developed country besides the USA is not leftist and socialist?
Somalia. Rand is very popular among the pirate party.
__________________
I once proposed a fun ban.

Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 03:17 PM   #35
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,156
US-Led Economic War, Not Socialism, Is Tearing Venezuela Apart
Quote:
Corruption is a big problem in Venezuela and many third-world countries. This was true prior to the Bolivarian process, as well as after Hugo Chavez launched his massive economic reforms...

Venezuelans told of how the privatizations mandated by the International Monetary Fund made life in Venezuela almost unlivable during the 1990s. Garbage wouldn’t be collected. Electricity would go off for weeks. Haido Ortega, a member of a local governing body in Venezuela, said: “Under previous governments we had to burn tires and go on strike just to get electricity, have the streets fixed, or get any investment.”
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 03:17 PM   #36
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,368
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Exaxtly. According to the American definitions of left and socialism, which developed country besides the USA is not leftist and socialist?
that's actually a good question. Maybe the UK? Some of the Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia?
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 03:23 PM   #37
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,652
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
that's actually a good question. Maybe the UK? Some of the Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia?
The UK is a welfare state with universal health care.

As for Saudi Arabia and other Middle Easter states, perhaps, but I did say developed country. I didn't have countries like that in mind.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 03:45 PM   #38
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 22,052
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Venezuela nationalized private businesses, and the government was totalitarian, corrupt, and inept. That a bad combination for any political type.
There's also the deeply entrenched caudillo principle, which, funnily enough, suits Trump perfectly in his own banana republic.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 03:50 PM   #39
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 22,052
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Mmm, slight correction: Neither Norway nor Denmark is a socialist country.

Hans
Indeed. They are liberal democracies with mixed economies.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2017, 05:10 PM   #40
rustypouch
Philosopher
 
rustypouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,517
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Who woulda thunk that such comparisons actually exist?

Health care - US the worst in developed world

Life expectancy - US #31, behind every western euro country

Economic freedom - US #17, tied with Denmark

Academic achievement - US lags behind

Voter participation: U.S. trails most developed countries

You're welcome!
You do know that facts and reason don't matter to trolls, right?

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk
rustypouch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.