London lesbians beaten for not kissing - Page 6

Belz... · 10th June 2019, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity?

I wasn't, considering that it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

luchog · 10th June 2019, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

This is a group of 15-18 year olds. Young men who have so far failed to grow the hell up, have no idea how to behave in a civilised manner and certainly have no idea how to behave themselves while drunk.

Having reached adolescence, they transition clumsily from an age where they were uninterested in girls and everything was about status among other boys and showing no weakness and picking on and bullying anyone who did, they suddenly find they are interested in girls but have no idea how to talk to them or treat anyone any differently or any better than the other boys they contend with for status.

People learn how to behave from their parents, society, and peers. If 15-18-year-olds are behaving disrespectfully and violently, chances are very good that said disrespect and violence was learned at home or close to it.

At that age, they've had plenty of time to learn by example how to interact with others.

Jack by the hedge · 10th June 2019, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by luchog

People learn how to behave from their parents, society, and peers. If 15-18-year-olds are behaving disrespectfully and violently, chances are very good that said disrespect and violence was learned at home or close to it.

At that age, they've had plenty of time to learn by example how to interact with others.

Yes. That's why most 15-18 year olds don't do anything as serious as this. Some do though, or do similarly obnoxious, antisocial stuff.

Matthew Best · 10th June 2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity?

I would guess not, given that JihadJane said that she wasn't shocked, not that she was.

Stankeye · 10th June 2019, 02:51 PM

It looked like a group of gay guys fought with a lesbian couple, but that is me basing it on the mannerisms and how the group of guys were acting before.

-deleted link- wrong incident

Matthew Best · 10th June 2019, 03:16 PM

Well, before anyone else examines that footage too closely, it might be worth pointing out that it is of a completely different incident that happened six years ago.

Stankeye · 10th June 2019, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Well, before anyone else examines that footage too closely, it might be worth pointing out that it is of a completely different incident that happened six years ago.

That was a mistake. This is what happens when you someone sends a link and you fail to note the date.

Roboramma · 10th June 2019, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I'm saying you can't be an a-hole ironically, and you certainly can't be an a-hole ironically ironically, and you certainly, certainly can't do it just be acting functionally indistinguishable from an a-hole and having other people tack on the "LOL joking" for you.

But this rabbit hole is deep enough, I'll drop my end of the rope to mix the metaphor.

You didn't answer the question as to whether you can see that those are two different things. The question of which Cain is engaging in is a different question.

The question of whether he is engaging in either effectively is one more question.

IsThisTheLife · 12th June 2019, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife

... The basic problem is that London is becoming more and more lawless, provably. This is generally attributed (correctly, IMO) to under-funding and under-manning od the police over the past few years. My suspicion is that it's deliberate, 'problem-reaction-solution'. Coming soon - a massive recruitment drive for Greater London police officers, with particular attention paid to "ethnic representation". ETA>> this may be presented as "radical restructuring".

AS it happens Cressida Dick (sic), the Commissioner of the Met (hence more-or-less the most senior officer in the entire UK), announced an 'initiative' in May intended to "wipe out" "racism and islamophobia" in the force once and for all - several hundred additional "community assessors" (**** me - nothing if not predicable), a position originally created in 2003, are to be hired. And what is the role of these "community assessors? Vet all new applications and summarily bin any which betray any sign of prejudice or racism (in their doubtlessly expert and utterly unprejudiced view). Cut the BS - it's essentiallythe same "affirmative action", for which read "whites need not apply", policy that one of the Yorksire forces were discovered tacitly applying last year.

https://www.met.police.uk/car/career...ssor-overview/

3point14 · 12th June 2019, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife

AS it happens Cressida Dick (sic), the Commissioner of the Met (hence more-or-less the most senior officer in the entire UK), announced an 'initiative' in May intended to "wipe out" "racism and islamophobia" in the force once and for all - several hundred additional "community assessors" (**** me - nothing if not predicable), a position originally created in 2003, are to be hired. And what is the role of these "community assessors? Vet all new applications and summarily bin any which betray any sign of prejudice or racism (in their doubtlessly expert and utterly unprejudiced view). Cut the BS - it's essentiallythe same "affirmative action", for which read "whites need not apply", policy that one of the Yorksire forces were discovered tacitly applying last year.

https://www.met.police.uk/car/career...ssor-overview/

You might be unaware of the history of the Metropolitan Police Service.

Or, indeed the current state of the Met

IsThisTheLife · 12th June 2019, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

What terrifies me most is that when I read about this assault on two gay women, down the road from my house in the biggest, most multicultural city in the UK, I wasn’t even shocked. I was completely unsurprised by what had happened because for as long as I have been publicly dating women I have had experience of men behaving as though it is entirely for them.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity?

Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people.

zooterkin · 12th June 2019, 09:16 AM

Several posts moved to AAH.

Please return to discussing the topic of this thread, not each other.

Thank you very kindly.

Posted By:zooterkin

Information Analyst · 12th June 2019, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife

Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people.

Given that hardly any of them have reached London, and that the one who did were generally trying to escape the attitudes you think they have, your sarcasm make no sense. If this was the 1930s, you'd be claiming that Jewish refugees are spreading Nazism to our shores.

Ziggurat · 13th June 2019, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Information Analyst

Given that hardly any of them have reached London

Refugees from Syria are not the only immigrants from countries and cultures which have less respect, shall we say, for women's and lesbians' rights than British society as a whole.

Delphic Oracle · 13th June 2019, 05:58 PM

This reminds me of the time we heard Trump declare he would defend LGBTQ citizens...

...from a hostile, foreign ideology.

In such instances, the subject appears to have an interest in tolerance. This is merely window dressing, the first group cited is only being wielded as prop victims to make slanderous remarks about a second group.

It's virtue signalling's even more corrupted cousin.

ETA: You'll notice over time less and less concern for the individuals in this specific attack and more and more focus turned against named groups (who may or may not even have anything to do with a given attack).

Information Analyst · 14th June 2019, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

ETA: You'll notice over time less and less concern for the individuals in this specific attack and more and more focus turned against named groups (who may or may not even have anything to do with a given attack).

Yes. The fact that - at the outset - one suspect was described as speaking Spanish and the others as having British accents hasn't stopped some posters nudge-nudge wink-winking at teh Muslimz being responsible.

Ziggurat · 14th June 2019, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by Information Analyst

Yes. The fact that - at the outset - one suspect was described as speaking Spanish and the others as having British accents hasn't stopped some posters nudge-nudge wink-winking at teh Muslimz being responsible.

Are you under the mistaken impression that there are no Muslims with English or Spanish accents? They are unlikely to be refugees with such accents, but that doesn't preclude them from being second or third gen immigrants.

Darat · 14th June 2019, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Are you under the mistaken impression that there are no Muslims with English or Spanish accents? They are unlikely to be refugees with such accents, but that doesn't preclude them from being second or third gen immigrants.

Was you meaning to provide such a clear example?

William Parcher · 14th June 2019, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Daily Mail

A lesbian couple who were victims of a horrific homphobic attack on a London bus two weeks ago have defiantly spoken out as their injuries slowly heal.

They say they were primarily targeted by a gang of men because they are women who are viewed as 'sexual objects' and also hit out at Tory frontrunner Boris Johnson...

Ms Geymonat, a doctor from Uruguay and a Ryanair flight attendant, said that the incident was primarily 'an attack towards women, and then after homosexual women', revealing that she was told to 'get the hell out of the country' by her friends after the incident...

When the interviewer brought up that Boris Johnson seemed to be the most likely person to be the next Prime Minister, and referenced comments he had previously made comparing homosexual marriage to 'bestiality', Chris said that the Tory frontrunner was not 'fit to lead anything, much less the United Kingdom'...

When asked if she thought the portrayal of lesbians as a male fantasy in pornography had an effect on some young men's views of gay women in real life, Ms Geymonat said she did think porn 'plays its own part' in contributing to the treatment of homosexual women as objects who exist for the sake of the male gaze...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...speak-out.html

Checkmite · 14th June 2019, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

They are unlikely to be refugees with such accents, but that doesn't preclude them from being second or third gen immigrants.

What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore?

I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned.

cullennz · 14th June 2019, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore?

I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned.

Lol

This has always been slightly humorous thing to me as well.

EHocking · 14th June 2019, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Yes it is and yes it is related to "austerity" but you need to keep it in perspective, we are seeing rates of say murder we haven't seen for 10 or 12 years. So for example London is still "safer" than when I lived in London.

I realise correlation does not imply causation, but . . . .

EHocking · 14th June 2019, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife

Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people.

They’ll fit right in with most of the white middle-aged Londoners that disgusted me for the 15 years I lived there then!

Ziggurat · 15th June 2019, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean?

You know exactly what it means. You might not like the phrase, but don't feign confusion.

Quote:

How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore?

Depends on the purpose. I'm a second-generation immigrant, nothing shameful about that.

But not all second-generation immigrants are fully assimilated. The cultures from which they come can still play a large part in their current beliefs. For example, three of the four July 7 London Tube bombers were second-generation immigrants from Pakistan. If you don't think that background was relevant to their decision to engage in terrorism, you're in denial. And if you think that the cultural attitudes towards gays in countries like Pakistan has no effect on second-generation immigrants in the UK from those places, you don't understand human nature. Not every Pakistani in the UK is going to hate gays (hell, even in Pakistan I'm sure there are tolerant people), but the average attitudes are different. And multiculturalism and the attendant reduction in assimilation makes those differences more persistent.

Quote:

I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned.

I'm not sure what you being white has to do with anything. White people immigrate and emigrate to and from places. But yes, you're a third generation immigrant.

William Parcher · 21st August 2019, 02:23 PM

Four teenagers deny homophobic harassment

Originally Posted by BBC News

Two 17-year-olds, a 16-year-old and a 15-year-old allegedly demanded they kiss and perform sex acts when they discovered they were a couple, Highbury Corner Youth Court heard. They will stand trial on 28 November.

All four are charged with using threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behaviour to cause harassment, alarm, or distress. It was alleged the boys threw coins at the women, who were both taken to hospital for treatment to facial injuries after the incident.

The 16-year-old boy, from Wandsworth, admitted stealing a handbag but denied handling her stolen mobile phone.

The 15-year-old, from Kensington and Chelsea, also denied handling a stolen bank card.

One of the 17-year-olds, both from Kensington and Chelsea, also denies a charge of possession of cannabis...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49421076

The Norseman · 21st August 2019, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

Did you miss the last half of my post?

My issue was with the challange "maybe if you got beat and robbed it you wouldn't find it funny. ". It's simply not effective argumentation as a decent portion of the population can and would laugh.

Strange in my mind to consider it as an argument. I see it as a rebuke against callousness and a call for more simple human empathy.

Originally Posted by Venom

lol?

This is just a small example of an almost innate toxic male entitlement.

What they need is a punch to the face and some time to heal behind bars.

Wait, what? Your solution to toxic masculinity is to beat them up first? Isn't that perpetuating a major part of toxic masculinity saying might makes right?

Originally Posted by 3point14

You might be unaware of the history of the Metropolitan Police Service.

Or, indeed the current state of the Met

Naw, naw, that's all FAKE HISTORY.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Refugees from Syria are not the only immigrants from countries and cultures which have less respect, shall we say, for women's and lesbians' rights than British society as a whole.

So? These four British youths certainly did not demonstrate this cultural respect; why assume refugees will invariably demonstrate theirs?

Puppycow · 21st August 2019, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Four teenagers deny homophobic harassment
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49421076

But who are they?

I wanna know which ethnic group to blame! [/jk]

EHocking · 21st August 2019, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

But who are they?

I wanna know which ethnic group to blame! [/jk]

If The Hun or The Fail haven't mentioned it, they are probably white.

GlennB · 22nd August 2019, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

But who are they?

They're under 18 and, I think, cannot be named at this stage of proceedings.

Susheel · 22nd August 2019, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife

Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people.

Projecting your own attitudes on to people you don't know?

mgidm86 · 27th August 2019, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore?

I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned.

Here in the US I've always heard it as "3rd generation American". I've never heard the "immigrant" version.

Information Analyst · 28th August 2019, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

They're under 18 and, I think, cannot be named at this stage of proceedings.

Nor necessarily at the end of them.

quadraginta · 28th August 2019, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

Here in the US I've always heard it as "3rd generation American". I've never heard the "immigrant" version.

My ancestors came here nearly a century and a half before the U.S. existed.

I guess that makes me a thirteenth generation immigrant.

The Don · 29th August 2019, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

My ancestors came here nearly a century and a half before the U.S. existed.

I guess that makes me a thirteenth generation immigrant.

All of them, or just some of them ?

3point14 · 29th August 2019, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

All of them, or just some of them ?

I think, in terms of the 'I've been here longest' game, one is allowed to use the one that gives the most satisfying answer.

I think. It's not a game I'm familiar with.

Puppycow · 29th August 2019, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

My ancestors came here nearly a century and a half before the U.S. existed.

I guess that makes me a thirteenth generation immigrant.

Some relative of mine who I never met managed to trace back our family history (on the male side) to a man who first came to America around 1650 as an indentured servant. He was on the losing side in a battle in the English Civil war at that time and was captured. He was only 16 at the time of the battle. I think Oliver Cromwell was the winner of that particular battle. What they did with my ancestor was to send him to New England as an indentured servant. I'd have to go back to the book to figure out exactly how many generations are between me and him though.

quadraginta · 29th August 2019, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

All of them, or just some of them ?

Some, of course.

However, two of my four grandparents are direct descendants of settlers who came here in 1640, including my father's father, who was born and raised in the same town that 1640 settler came to. Same surname and all.

A third was a latecomer, though. Didn't get here until shortly after 1700.

William Parcher · 29th November 2019, 11:05 AM

Follow-up article includes some video of the fight.

'They wanted us to show them how lesbians have sex': American woman, 29, relives moment teenage thugs subjected her and doctor girlfriend, 28, to homophobic abuse on board a London bus as three youths admit horrific attack

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...irlfriend.html

10th June 2019, 08:43 AM	#201
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 86,882	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity? I wasn't, considering that it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

10th June 2019, 01:01 PM	#202
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 16,198	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge This is a group of 15-18 year olds. Young men who have so far failed to grow the hell up, have no idea how to behave in a civilised manner and certainly have no idea how to behave themselves while drunk. Having reached adolescence, they transition clumsily from an age where they were uninterested in girls and everything was about status among other boys and showing no weakness and picking on and bullying anyone who did, they suddenly find they are interested in girls but have no idea how to talk to them or treat anyone any differently or any better than the other boys they contend with for status. People learn how to behave from their parents, society, and peers. If 15-18-year-olds are behaving disrespectfully and violently, chances are very good that said disrespect and violence was learned at home or close to it. At that age, they've had plenty of time to learn by example how to interact with others.
	__________________ When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.

10th June 2019, 02:51 PM	#205
Stankeye Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 263	It looked like a group of gay guys fought with a lesbian couple, but that is me basing it on the mannerisms and how the group of guys were acting before. -deleted link- wrong incident
Stankeye Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 263	Last edited by Stankeye; 10th June 2019 at 04:02 PM.

10th June 2019, 04:01 PM	#207
Stankeye Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 263	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Well, before anyone else examines that footage too closely, it might be worth pointing out that it is of a completely different incident that happened six years ago. That was a mistake. This is what happens when you someone sends a link and you fail to note the date.
Stankeye Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 263

10th June 2019, 06:51 PM	#208
Roboramma Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 13,186	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I'm saying you can't be an a-hole ironically, and you certainly can't be an a-hole ironically ironically, and you certainly, certainly can't do it just be acting functionally indistinguishable from an a-hole and having other people tack on the "LOL joking" for you. But this rabbit hole is deep enough, I'll drop my end of the rope to mix the metaphor. You didn't answer the question as to whether you can see that those are two different things. The question of which Cain is engaging in is a different question. The question of whether he is engaging in either effectively is one more question.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

10th June 2019, 01:25 PM	#203
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,805	Originally Posted by luchog People learn how to behave from their parents, society, and peers. If 15-18-year-olds are behaving disrespectfully and violently, chances are very good that said disrespect and violence was learned at home or close to it. At that age, they've had plenty of time to learn by example how to interact with others. Yes. That's why most 15-18 year olds don't do anything as serious as this. Some do though, or do similarly obnoxious, antisocial stuff.

10th June 2019, 02:23 PM	#204
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 7,149	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity? I would guess not, given that JihadJane said that she wasn't shocked, not that she was.

10th June 2019, 03:16 PM	#206
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 7,149	Well, before anyone else examines that footage too closely, it might be worth pointing out that it is of a completely different incident that happened six years ago.

12th June 2019, 04:33 AM	#209
IsThisTheLife Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 427	Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife ... The basic problem is that London is becoming more and more lawless, provably. This is generally attributed (correctly, IMO) to under-funding and under-manning od the police over the past few years. My suspicion is that it's deliberate, 'problem-reaction-solution'. Coming soon - a massive recruitment drive for Greater London police officers, with particular attention paid to "ethnic representation". ETA>> this may be presented as "radical restructuring". AS it happens Cressida Dick (sic), the Commissioner of the Met (hence more-or-less the most senior officer in the entire UK), announced an 'initiative' in May intended to "wipe out" "racism and islamophobia" in the force once and for all - several hundred additional "community assessors" (**** me - nothing if not predicable), a position originally created in 2003, are to be hired. And what is the role of these "community assessors? Vet all new applications and summarily bin any which betray any sign of prejudice or racism (in their doubtlessly expert and utterly unprejudiced view). Cut the BS - it's essentiallythe same "affirmative action", for which read "whites need not apply", policy that one of the Yorksire forces were discovered tacitly applying last year. https://www.met.police.uk/car/career...ssor-overview/
	__________________ "There is no sin except stupidity."

12th June 2019, 04:35 AM	#210
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,727	Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife AS it happens Cressida Dick (sic), the Commissioner of the Met (hence more-or-less the most senior officer in the entire UK), announced an 'initiative' in May intended to "wipe out" "racism and islamophobia" in the force once and for all - several hundred additional "community assessors" (**** me - nothing if not predicable), a position originally created in 2003, are to be hired. And what is the role of these "community assessors? Vet all new applications and summarily bin any which betray any sign of prejudice or racism (in their doubtlessly expert and utterly unprejudiced view). Cut the BS - it's essentiallythe same "affirmative action", for which read "whites need not apply", policy that one of the Yorksire forces were discovered tacitly applying last year. https://www.met.police.uk/car/career...ssor-overview/ You might be unaware of the history of the Metropolitan Police Service. Or, indeed the current state of the Met
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,727	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

12th June 2019, 04:48 AM	#211
IsThisTheLife Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 427	Originally Posted by JihadJane What terrifies me most is that when I read about this assault on two gay women, down the road from my house in the biggest, most multicultural city in the UK, I wasn’t even shocked. I was completely unsurprised by what had happened because for as long as I have been publicly dating women I have had experience of men behaving as though it is entirely for them. Originally Posted by Ziggurat Were you under the mistaken belief that multiculturalism might serve as a kind of protection against such barbarity? Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people.
	__________________ "There is no sin except stupidity."

12th June 2019, 09:43 AM	#213
Information Analyst Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure... Posts: 10,021	Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people. Given that hardly any of them have reached London, and that the one who did were generally trying to escape the attitudes you think they have, your sarcasm make no sense. If this was the 1930s, you'd be claiming that Jewish refugees are spreading Nazism to our shores.
	Last edited by Information Analyst; 12th June 2019 at 09:45 AM.

13th June 2019, 05:48 PM	#214
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 44,853	Originally Posted by Information Analyst Given that hardly any of them have reached London Refugees from Syria are not the only immigrants from countries and cultures which have less respect, shall we say, for women's and lesbians' rights than British society as a whole.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

13th June 2019, 05:58 PM	#215
Delphic Oracle Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 3,701	This reminds me of the time we heard Trump declare he would defend LGBTQ citizens... ...from a hostile, foreign ideology. In such instances, the subject appears to have an interest in tolerance. This is merely window dressing, the first group cited is only being wielded as prop victims to make slanderous remarks about a second group. It's virtue signalling's even more corrupted cousin. ETA: You'll notice over time less and less concern for the individuals in this specific attack and more and more focus turned against named groups (who may or may not even have anything to do with a given attack).
	Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 13th June 2019 at 05:59 PM.

14th June 2019, 02:44 AM	#216
Information Analyst Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure... Posts: 10,021	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle ETA: You'll notice over time less and less concern for the individuals in this specific attack and more and more focus turned against named groups (who may or may not even have anything to do with a given attack). Yes. The fact that - at the outset - one suspect was described as speaking Spanish and the others as having British accents hasn't stopped some posters nudge-nudge wink-winking at teh Muslimz being responsible.

14th June 2019, 03:51 AM	#217
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 44,853	Originally Posted by Information Analyst Yes. The fact that - at the outset - one suspect was described as speaking Spanish and the others as having British accents hasn't stopped some posters nudge-nudge wink-winking at teh Muslimz being responsible. Are you under the mistaken impression that there are no Muslims with English or Spanish accents? They are unlikely to be refugees with such accents, but that doesn't preclude them from being second or third gen immigrants.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

14th June 2019, 04:20 AM	#218
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 88,420	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Are you under the mistaken impression that there are no Muslims with English or Spanish accents? They are unlikely to be refugees with such accents, but that doesn't preclude them from being second or third gen immigrants. Was you meaning to provide such a clear example?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

14th June 2019, 07:28 PM	#219
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,580	Originally Posted by Daily Mail A lesbian couple who were victims of a horrific homphobic attack on a London bus two weeks ago have defiantly spoken out as their injuries slowly heal. They say they were primarily targeted by a gang of men because they are women who are viewed as 'sexual objects' and also hit out at Tory frontrunner Boris Johnson... Ms Geymonat, a doctor from Uruguay and a Ryanair flight attendant, said that the incident was primarily 'an attack towards women, and then after homosexual women', revealing that she was told to 'get the hell out of the country' by her friends after the incident... When the interviewer brought up that Boris Johnson seemed to be the most likely person to be the next Prime Minister, and referenced comments he had previously made comparing homosexual marriage to 'bestiality', Chris said that the Tory frontrunner was not 'fit to lead anything, much less the United Kingdom'... When asked if she thought the portrayal of lesbians as a male fantasy in pornography had an effect on some young men's views of gay women in real life, Ms Geymonat said she did think porn 'plays its own part' in contributing to the treatment of homosexual women as objects who exist for the sake of the male gaze... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...speak-out.html
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

14th June 2019, 08:48 PM	#220
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 24,494	Originally Posted by Ziggurat They are unlikely to be refugees with such accents, but that doesn't preclude them from being second or third gen immigrants. What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore? I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

14th June 2019, 09:38 PM	#221
cullennz Embarrasingly illiterate Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 17,438	Originally Posted by Checkmite What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore? I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned. Lol This has always been slightly humorous thing to me as well.
	__________________ I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record. Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

14th June 2019, 10:47 PM	#222
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,125	Originally Posted by Darat Yes it is and yes it is related to "austerity" but you need to keep it in perspective, we are seeing rates of say murder we haven't seen for 10 or 12 years. So for example London is still "safer" than when I lived in London. I realise correlation does not imply causation, but . . . .
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,125	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

14th June 2019, 11:39 PM	#223
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,125	Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people. They’ll fit right in with most of the white middle-aged Londoners that disgusted me for the 15 years I lived there then!
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,125	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

15th June 2019, 09:55 AM	#224
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 44,853	Originally Posted by Checkmite What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? You know exactly what it means. You might not like the phrase, but don't feign confusion. Quote: How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore? Depends on the purpose. I'm a second-generation immigrant, nothing shameful about that. But not all second-generation immigrants are fully assimilated. The cultures from which they come can still play a large part in their current beliefs. For example, three of the four July 7 London Tube bombers were second-generation immigrants from Pakistan. If you don't think that background was relevant to their decision to engage in terrorism, you're in denial. And if you think that the cultural attitudes towards gays in countries like Pakistan has no effect on second-generation immigrants in the UK from those places, you don't understand human nature. Not every Pakistani in the UK is going to hate gays (hell, even in Pakistan I'm sure there are tolerant people), but the average attitudes are different. And multiculturalism and the attendant reduction in assimilation makes those differences more persistent. Quote: I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned. I'm not sure what you being white has to do with anything. White people immigrate and emigrate to and from places. But yes, you're a third generation immigrant.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

21st August 2019, 02:23 PM	#225
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,580	Four teenagers deny homophobic harassment Originally Posted by BBC News Two 17-year-olds, a 16-year-old and a 15-year-old allegedly demanded they kiss and perform sex acts when they discovered they were a couple, Highbury Corner Youth Court heard. They will stand trial on 28 November. All four are charged with using threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behaviour to cause harassment, alarm, or distress. It was alleged the boys threw coins at the women, who were both taken to hospital for treatment to facial injuries after the incident. The 16-year-old boy, from Wandsworth, admitted stealing a handbag but denied handling her stolen mobile phone. The 15-year-old, from Kensington and Chelsea, also denied handling a stolen bank card. One of the 17-year-olds, both from Kensington and Chelsea, also denies a charge of possession of cannabis... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49421076
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

21st August 2019, 07:34 PM	#226
The Norseman Meandering fecklessly Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,376	Originally Posted by sadhatter Did you miss the last half of my post? My issue was with the challange "maybe if you got beat and robbed it you wouldn't find it funny. ". It's simply not effective argumentation as a decent portion of the population can and would laugh. Strange in my mind to consider it as an argument. I see it as a rebuke against callousness and a call for more simple human empathy. Originally Posted by Venom lol? This is just a small example of an almost innate toxic male entitlement. What they need is a punch to the face and some time to heal behind bars. Wait, what? Your solution to toxic masculinity is to beat them up first? Isn't that perpetuating a major part of toxic masculinity saying might makes right? Originally Posted by 3point14 You might be unaware of the history of the Metropolitan Police Service. Or, indeed the current state of the Met Naw, naw, that's all FAKE HISTORY. Originally Posted by Ziggurat Refugees from Syria are not the only immigrants from countries and cultures which have less respect, shall we say, for women's and lesbians' rights than British society as a whole. So? These four British youths certainly did not demonstrate this cultural respect; why assume refugees will invariably demonstrate theirs?
	__________________ A government is a body of people usually - notably - ungoverned. -Shepard Book

21st August 2019, 10:36 PM	#227
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,199	Originally Posted by William Parcher Four teenagers deny homophobic harassment https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49421076 But who are they? I wanna know which ethnic group to blame! [/jk]
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

21st August 2019, 10:49 PM	#228
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,125	Originally Posted by Puppycow But who are they? I wanna know which ethnic group to blame! [/jk] If The Hun or The Fail haven't mentioned it, they are probably white.
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7,125	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald

22nd August 2019, 12:00 AM	#229
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arcadia, Greece Posts: 25,554	Originally Posted by Puppycow But who are they? They're under 18 and, I think, cannot be named at this stage of proceedings.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

22nd August 2019, 02:42 AM	#230
Susheel Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 1,475	Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife Yeh, I can just imagine a member of the latest (post-"Syrian Refugee Crisis) wave of migrants who've been adding to London's vibrant diversity intervening to save the lesbians. They love lesbians, do those migrants. And gay men - lovely gays. And white people - lovely, lovely white people. Projecting your own attitudes on to people you don't know?
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

27th August 2019, 10:56 PM	#231
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,914	Originally Posted by Checkmite What the hell does "second or third gen immigrants" even mean? How many previous generations of your family have to have been born in the country you were born in for you to not be an "immigrant" anymore? I'm white as mayonnaise and I've never been outside this country; but my grandmother was not born in the United States, so I guess that makes me a "third generation immigrant". Today I learned. Here in the US I've always heard it as "3rd generation American". I've never heard the "immigrant" version.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,914	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

28th August 2019, 02:12 AM	#232
Information Analyst Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure... Posts: 10,021	Originally Posted by GlennB They're under 18 and, I think, cannot be named at this stage of proceedings. Nor necessarily at the end of them.

28th August 2019, 05:47 AM	#233
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 24,429	Originally Posted by mgidm86 Here in the US I've always heard it as "3rd generation American". I've never heard the "immigrant" version. My ancestors came here nearly a century and a half before the U.S. existed. I guess that makes me a thirteenth generation immigrant.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

29th August 2019, 02:09 AM	#234
The Don Penultimate Amazing August Co-Pither Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 27,457	Originally Posted by quadraginta My ancestors came here nearly a century and a half before the U.S. existed. I guess that makes me a thirteenth generation immigrant. All of them, or just some of them ?

29th August 2019, 02:16 AM	#235
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,727	Originally Posted by The Don All of them, or just some of them ? I think, in terms of the 'I've been here longest' game, one is allowed to use the one that gives the most satisfying answer. I think. It's not a game I'm familiar with.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,727	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

29th August 2019, 03:15 AM	#236
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,199	Originally Posted by quadraginta My ancestors came here nearly a century and a half before the U.S. existed. I guess that makes me a thirteenth generation immigrant. Some relative of mine who I never met managed to trace back our family history (on the male side) to a man who first came to America around 1650 as an indentured servant. He was on the losing side in a battle in the English Civil war at that time and was captured. He was only 16 at the time of the battle. I think Oliver Cromwell was the winner of that particular battle. What they did with my ancestor was to send him to New England as an indentured servant. I'd have to go back to the book to figure out exactly how many generations are between me and him though.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare