ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 22nd November 2019, 02:01 PM   #41
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,455
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...erage-17301249

"A man who controversially claimed on Question Time that his £80k salary was 'average' is an IT consultant and professional motorbike racer.
The Mirror named him as 36-year-old Rob Barber, nicknamed Bullet. He comes from Bury, and runs race team PBR Racing with his dad, Phil.
He has taken part in the Ulster GP and Pikes Peak Hill Climb.

He said: "I would like to call Labour out as liars.
"I am one of them people he will tax more and I am nowhere near in the top five, so I am calling you a liar.
"That five per cent is a lie, I am nowhere near that and you are going to tax me as an employee"

I wonder if he is enjoying is brief moment of fame?
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 02:14 PM   #42
Mid
Graduate Poster
 
Mid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,061
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This seems a little odd to me. In the USA the top 5% salary is some $135,000 per year, or 105,000 British pounds. Are UK salaries lower overall than USA?
£80k used to be worth quite a bit more in dollar terms before the Brexit referendum, so the lower value is an artifact of that vote
Mid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 02:38 PM   #43
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Do married couples in the UK not have the option file jointly? In the USA filing jointly can save some tax if one person makes significantly more than the other.
The vast majority of people in the UK don't have to complete a tax return at all, because salaried employees have tax deducted at source. Even for those that do complete a tax return, it's an individual, not a joint one.

Although I have a "day job," I need to complete a tax return for my writing income/expenses (royalty statement day today - woo hoo!). I never have to put anything to do with my wife on it.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 22nd November 2019 at 02:44 PM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 02:43 PM   #44
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...erage-17301249

"A man who controversially claimed on Question Time that his £80k salary was 'average' is an IT consultant and professional motorbike racer.
The Mirror named him as 36-year-old Rob Barber, nicknamed Bullet. He comes from Bury, and runs race team PBR Racing with his dad, Phil.
He has taken part in the Ulster GP and Pikes Peak Hill Climb.

He said: "I would like to call Labour out as liars.
"I am one of them people he will tax more and I am nowhere near in the top five, so I am calling you a liar.
"That five per cent is a lie, I am nowhere near that and you are going to tax me as an employee"

I wonder if he is enjoying is brief moment of fame?
I wonder if HMRC will be having a closer look at him....
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 03:00 PM   #45
Agatha
Winking at the Moon
Moderator
 
Agatha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 13,080
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This seems a little odd to me. In the USA the top 5% salary is some $135,000 per year, or 105,000 British pounds. Are UK salaries lower overall than USA?
In terms of dollar amounts, possibly, though that depends somewhat on the prevailing exchange rate. In terms of purchasing power probably not, since we don't have to pay for medical insurance or copays.
__________________
Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader
Agatha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 03:29 PM   #46
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,793
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I wonder if HMRC will be having a closer look at him....
Ah yes. The classic totalitarian "man dissents from the orthodoxy; here's hoping he gets a nice visit from some government people".
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 03:31 PM   #47
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ah yes. The classic totalitarian "man dissents from the orthodoxy; here's hoping he gets a nice visit from some government people".
You really do leap to some bizarre conclusions.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd November 2019, 03:41 PM   #48
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,793
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
You really do leap to some bizarre conclusions.
Keeps me limber.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 12:53 AM   #49
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,167
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...erage-17301249

"A man who controversially claimed on Question Time that his £80k salary was 'average' is an IT consultant and professional motorbike racer.
The Mirror named him as 36-year-old Rob Barber, nicknamed Bullet. He comes from Bury, and runs race team PBR Racing with his dad, Phil.
He has taken part in the Ulster GP and Pikes Peak Hill Climb.

He said: "I would like to call Labour out as liars.
"I am one of them people he will tax more and I am nowhere near in the top five, so I am calling you a liar.
"That five per cent is a lie, I am nowhere near that and you are going to tax me as an employee"

I wonder if he is enjoying is brief moment of fame?
Not to mention that he's completely wrong. If his salary is actually £80,000 then he won't pay any more under Labour, as that is the point the tax increase kicks in.

If his salary moves up to £81,000, then he'd be paying an entire £1 a week more. But apparently that is too upsetting for him.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 01:25 AM   #50
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,937
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Depends on the location. North Dakota, 80k a year could be a pretty good stipend. Silicon Valley, it's not even enough to live in Silicon Valley. Unless you call bunking three to a room in a million-dollar shack in East Palo Alto "living". It's probably a little easier in the UK, but the US is so large and diverse that a single one-size-fits-all income scale for the whole nation is pretty much unworkable.

The poverty level in SF is 82,000 a year for a single person.


https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san...s-13024580.php

Quote:
To be considered "low income" in San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties, a family of four must earn $117,400 a year. "Very low income" is considered $73,300.
__________________
Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 07:25 AM   #51
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 27,523
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This seems a little odd to me. In the USA the top 5% salary is some $135,000 per year, or 105,000 British pounds. Are UK salaries lower overall than USA?
Yes, and no, it depends on industry sector/role.

Engineers, medical personnel, senior executives seem to earn more in the US. Minimum, or near minimum wage earners earn less.

Figures are distorted by comparatively low pound exchange rates. If the pound were at $1.60 then the UK would have a comparable 5% threshold.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:05 AM   #52
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 44,040
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The way I see it, there's basically three broad categories of personal wealth: Poor, middle class, and rich.

Class and wealth are two different things in the UK.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:26 AM   #53
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 52,657
Being in the top 5% of salary is not the same thing as being in the top 5% of wealth.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:30 AM   #54
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,793
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Class and wealth are two different things in the UK.
That must make my post very confusing for UKians. If I think of some way to translate it into concepts they can understand, I'll let you know.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 01:34 PM   #55
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,455
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That must make my post very confusing for UKians. If I think of some way to translate it into concepts they can understand, I'll let you know.
I think a good way to understand how that class and wealth works, is to understand the inheritance system.

I worked with a lady whose family own a large estate in Scotland. But it all went to her elder brother and she was the youngest of four. The family were land rich but cash poor. As a result, in her 50s, she lived in a small house in a poor area and did some pretty low paid jobs.

But she was very much upper class the way she spoke, her attitude and manners (she had been sent to finishing school).
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 02:07 PM   #56
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That must make my post very confusing for UKians. If I think of some way to translate it into concepts they can understand, I'll let you know.
Just put it in terms of income. It seems like only the US reduces class solely to money, so it's best not to assume that categorisation will travel.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 02:21 PM   #57
rdwight
Muse
 
rdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 563
Guess it would depend on if that was his household income. In New Jersey, that would barely have him in the top 30%. As others have said, his location and situation can definitely skew his outlook on this.
rdwight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 02:26 PM   #58
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18,024
Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Guess it would depend on if that was his household income. In New Jersey, that would barely have him in the top 30%. As others have said, his location and situation can definitely skew his outlook on this.
Did you correct for exchange rate?
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 03:05 PM   #59
Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
 
Nessie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,455
Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Guess it would depend on if that was his household income. In New Jersey, that would barely have him in the top 30%. As others have said, his location and situation can definitely skew his outlook on this.
Assuming he lives in the area where QT was filmed, he lives in one of the poorest parts of the UK and his £80k is way over average.
__________________
Audiophile/biker/sceptic
Nessie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 03:08 PM   #60
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,337
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
This is headline news on the Metro news site;

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/22/man-8...ners-11200959/

"A Question Time audience member has refused to believe he is in the top 5% of earners despite raking in £80,000 a year.

The man went on the BBC flagship show and complained about Labourís election policy of planning a 45p rate on earnings over that figure. Jeremy Corbynís party are adamant that their proposed tax hike would only affect the top 5% of earners.

The average UK salary is £29,000 and figures from the Office for National Statistics show that anyone earning more than £75,300 is in the top 5%. The unnamed manís rant has now gone viral with him refusing to believe Labourís statistics, calling them liars. He then goes on to suggest that his salary is not even in Ďthe top 50% of earners.í"

The actual figures are here;

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-and-after-tax

The 50% split is at £23,600 (gross in 2016-17). At £36,000 earners are already into the top 75%.

At least there are others in the QT audience who are more clued-up than that man and can be heard correcting him.
All of it is based on perspective. Personally,
I have seen the rolling in the millions, and being homeless and a pauper. I have done it. I know how awful it is from either direction. I have been valued at 5 million and also at zero. I have of necessity, lived out of my car in the distant past. Anyone who has not has no standing and can foxtrot right oscar.

One gets a lot of instruction in that space about what one should or should not do. But that advice always comes from comfortable middle class types who are really only interested in a sop to their conscience. You can preach the live long day about the average this and the median that income. It matters not a whit were one to raise the median income to 1 million per nanosecond if one's rent is two million per femtosecond.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 03:10 PM   #61
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,183
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Not to mention that he's completely wrong. If his salary is actually £80,000 then he won't pay any more under Labour, as that is the point the tax increase kicks in.

If his salary moves up to £81,000, then he'd be paying an entire £1 a week more. But apparently that is too upsetting for him.
You might want to check your math on that one. At 45%, he'd be paying 450 quid extra per year or about 9 pounds more a week.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 04:55 PM   #62
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 44,040
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That must make my post very confusing for UKians. If I think of some way to translate it into concepts they can understand, I'll let you know.
Oh, I think we can cope, we're quite good at making allowances. I just thought you might like to know to avoid making a faux pas in future.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 05:14 PM   #63
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,523
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
This is headline news on the Metro news site;

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/22/man-8...ners-11200959/

"A Question Time audience member has refused to believe he is in the top 5% of earners despite raking in £80,000 a year.

The man went on the BBC flagship show and complained about Labourís election policy of planning a 45p rate on earnings over that figure. Jeremy Corbynís party are adamant that their proposed tax hike would only affect the top 5% of earners.

The average UK salary is £29,000 and figures from the Office for National Statistics show that anyone earning more than £75,300 is in the top 5%. The unnamed manís rant has now gone viral with him refusing to believe Labourís statistics, calling them liars. He then goes on to suggest that his salary is not even in Ďthe top 50% of earners.í"

The actual figures are here;

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...-and-after-tax

The 50% split is at £23,600 (gross in 2016-17). At £36,000 earners are already into the top 75%.

At least there are others in the QT audience who are more clued-up than that man and can be heard correcting him.
Did the guy offer any opinions on the geometry of the earth?
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 06:09 PM   #64
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,526
TBF I think you might want to take where he lives into account.

Doesn't seem to say, but if it is London he probably isn't in the top 5% and the cost of living is a **** load more than someone living in some town in the wop wops, where a pint is still roughly 2 quid.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 06:40 PM   #65
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,056
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You might want to check your math on that one. At 45%, he'd be paying 450 quid extra per year or about 9 pounds more a week.
Nope. He's currently paying a maximum marginal rate of forty percent, the £1000 above the £80k would be on the forty five percent tax band so only a five percent increase, so an extra £50.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 08:31 PM   #66
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,523
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
TBF I think you might want to take where he lives into account.

Doesn't seem to say, but if it is London he probably isn't in the top 5% and the cost of living is a **** load more than someone living in some town in the wop wops, where a pint is still roughly 2 quid.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one told him he was in the top 5% of London earners.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 08:54 PM   #67
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one told him he was in the top 5% of London earners.
No idea. It has been a long time since I lived in England

Was just going by the thread title


And this

Does earning £80,000 or more put you in top 5% of UK earners?



Quote:
Reality

When it comes to annual income, a salary of £80,000 would put someone firmly in the top 5% of UK earners. According to HMRC taxpayer data from 2016-17, the 95th percentile of earnings began at £75,300. If this has gone up in line with other earnings growth, it will be just over £80,000 this year.

Those figures do not include non-taxpayers - once they are included, earnings of £80,000 would put someone in the top 3% of the UK population, according to the Institute of Fiscal Studies.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:12 PM   #68
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,523
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
No idea. It has been a long time since I lived in England

Was just going by the thread title


And this

Does earning £80,000 or more put you in top 5% of UK earners?
So he was told that he is in the top 5% of UK earners, which appears to be correct. And yet he seems to be refusing to accept reality. No one made any reference to his standard of living. He could have said "so what I'm in the top 5% of UK earners, it's my standard of living that's important in this context. That's what the tax code should address" That would have been at least reasonable.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:21 PM   #69
xterra
So far, so good...
 
xterra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: On the outskirts of Nowhere; the middle was too crowded
Posts: 3,368
I understand the comparison or rather the equivalence of London and New York or London and San Francisco.


What would be the US equivalent of Bolton, which Google Maps tells me is near Manchester?
__________________
Over we go....
xterra is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:23 PM   #70
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
So he was told that he is in the top 5% of UK earners, which appears to be correct. And yet he seems to be refusing to accept reality. No one made any reference to his standard of living. He could have said "so what I'm in the top 5% of UK earners, it's my standard of living that's important in this context. That's what the tax code should address" That would have been at least reasonable.
Again no idea

Personally think he is an idiot.

Just pointed out if he is in London he wouldn't be in the top 5 in London and the cost of living is a **** load more.

Maybe he should just move, and stfu
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:40 PM   #71
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,523
If the situation is as you say, I can understand the frustration of having working class people priced out of their hometowns. But misrepresenting statistical reality can't help.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:45 PM   #72
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,526
Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
If the situation is as you say, I can understand the frustration of having working class people priced out of their hometowns. But misrepresenting statistical reality can't help.
Agree with that

Dude is a bit of an idiot who should ask for a pay rise or move somewhere cheaper.

(Assuming it is as I suspect and he lives in a large city)

We have the same thing here with people moaning about living in Auckland.

It is like... "tough tits. If it is that bad move ffs"
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd November 2019, 10:09 PM   #73
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,183
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Nope. He's currently paying a maximum marginal rate of forty percent, the £1000 above the £80k would be on the forty five percent tax band so only a five percent increase, so an extra £50.
Good catch. Is 45% Labour's current top proposed tax rate? Times have indeed changed.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 12:22 AM   #74
Roboramma
Penultimate Amazing
 
Roboramma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 13,190
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Quote:
The way I see it, there's basically three broad categories of personal wealth: Poor, middle class, and rich.
Class and wealth are two different things in the UK.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That must make my post very confusing for UKians. If I think of some way to translate it into concepts they can understand, I'll let you know.
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Just put it in terms of income. It seems like only the US reduces class solely to money, so it's best not to assume that categorisation will travel.
He wasn't talking about class, he was talking about wealth, so I'm not sure where this admonishment is coming from. Is it because he used the term "middle class" as one of three categories? It's pretty clear from the highlighted that he wasn't actually talking about social class.
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov
Roboramma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 12:33 AM   #75
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,167
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You might want to check your math on that one. At 45%, he'd be paying 450 quid extra per year or about 9 pounds more a week.
Nope - you might want to check your own maths.

If he earned an extra £1000 he'd be paying £450 of that in tax, that's correct. But he would have been paying £400 in tax anyway, so Labour's new tax rate would result in him paying an extra £50. Which is just under £1 a week, exactly as I said.

And, also as I said, as someone who (claims he) earns £80,000 a year, he currently wouldn't pay anything extra in tax under Labour's proposed tax rate.

So he's complaining about something that wouldn't happen to him anyway, and if he got a pay rise he'd have to pay an extra £1 a week, for each £1000 pa he got as a pay rise. Personally I'd be happy to do that if it resulted in improvements to schools, the NHS, etc. But some people are, as we know, just greedy.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 12:37 AM   #76
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,167
Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
He wasn't talking about class, he was talking about wealth, so I'm not sure where this admonishment is coming from. Is it because he used the term "middle class" as one of three categories? It's pretty clear from the highlighted that he wasn't actually talking about social class.
To avoid confusion you can always use the term "middle income" instead.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 12:41 AM   #77
Roboramma
Penultimate Amazing
 
Roboramma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 13,190
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
To avoid confusion you can always use the term "middle income" instead.
Oddly I actually wrote that but snipped it out of my post because I wasn't sure it was exactly the right phrase. So thanks
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov
Roboramma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 03:03 AM   #78
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You might want to check your math on that one. At 45%, he'd be paying 450 quid extra per year or about 9 pounds more a week.
I would suggest that you need to check your maths.

Current rules:

* £80,000 earnings = £19,500 income tax
* £81,000 earnings = £19,900 income tax

Suggested new rules:

* £80,000 earnings = £19,500 income tax [no change]
* £81,000 earnings = £19,950 income tax [+£50]
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 03:06 AM   #79
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Good catch. Is 45% Labour's current top proposed tax rate? Times have indeed changed.
It already is the top rate, but it kicks it at earnings over £150k; Labour suggest moving the threshold back to £80k.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 03:07 AM   #80
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,058
Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
He wasn't talking about class, he was talking about wealth, so I'm not sure where this admonishment is coming from. Is it because he used the term "middle class" as one of three categories? It's pretty clear from the highlighted that he wasn't actually talking about social class.
He used a US definition in a UK context, where it doesn't work.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:08 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.