Amazon Fake Reviews - My Experience And Advice

mgidm86 · 24th November 2019, 02:43 PM

The best way to explain this is to copy/paste my latest Amazon product review. The product was a very small fishing tackle kit for about $13.

My review wasn't as nasty and did not contain any "fake review" comments until they emailed me asking me to change my review. That's when I got pissed off. It was actually a 4-star review to begin with!

Quote:

This is a cheap set of crap and most items won't be used by most anglers. Poor weak hooks that are not sharp, too many sinkers, a box that will fall apart very soon.

That is my product review, and it is my real opinion, unlike most reviews for this product.

Keep reading...

These are fake reviews - I know because TOPFORT contacted me and offered me free stuff for positive reviews. They sent me this item for free and I am NOT required to mention that in my review.

When I did not rate this product 5-stars they sent me this:

-----
Hello, are you online? Can you help us change 4-star to 5-star? We will be very grateful. We will provide you with more products in the future

best regards
candy
-----

This is against Amazon's policy and I will report them.

Tip: when you see reviews of a silly little product like this that include half a dozen photos or videos from dozens of reviewers, they are fake. You really think someone would make a video for this product?

We are TOLD to include photos and videos in our reviews. We are NOT told to mention that this review was in exchange for free products. They send us money to our PayPal, then we buy the product with actual money. This way we can leave a review.

This is a huge problem at Amazon. The cheap fishing gear area here is loaded with fake reviews.

Tip: Sort the reviews by date (most recent), not popularity. Normally a company wants 50 - 100 fake 5-star reviews when the product is first launched. Skip those reviews.

You see all these so-called avid fisherman giving this product five stars? Don't believe them.

I have rated three products 5-stars because they were good products. I knew as soon as I got a bad on that I would have to be honest, and this is that review.

Do not buy anything from dishonest sellers like TOPFORT and watch for fake reviews.

We'll see if Amazon allows my review.

The product

I have tried to contact Amazon to report the seller but I haven't figured out how yet. I tried one email address but it got bounced back saying I don't have a seller account. I'll figure it out.

I wanted people to know how companies are doing this. I think Amazon is in a lawsuit right now over fake reviews because it is a huge problem.

I replied to the seller's email and told them my feelings and that I intend to report them. I initially gave the product 4-stars, but they wanted 5. Now they got 1.

I started doing this when a company contacted me through my Youtube channel. I make fishing videos. I knew that one day this might happen. I will not lie to people - I actually didn't think they'd mind a 4-star review.

Now that I know how this works I see it everywhere. People taking videos and photos of a cheap, $13 item is a sure sign of fake reviews. If most of the first 30 reviews have photos and glowing reviews they are fake every time. In my experience they are Chinese or Korean companies.

Look at the reviews for this product and see the pattern for yourself.

I don't know if this is the proper forum for this - we don't see a lot of scam threads anymore. I just want to let people know what's up. I have first-hand experience with this.

ETA:
When I say "fake" reviews, I mean people that received free items like I did. My 5-star reviews were real, as were many others, I'm sure.

But how many of these people will be honest when they receive a bad product? Well mine is one of very few non-5-star out of maybe 60 reviews, so you figure it out. People really want free stuff that bad I guess.

AJM8125 · 24th November 2019, 03:12 PM

You're right. Those reviews look fake as ****.

Have you found these yet?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custo...4633580&sr=1-1

Quote:

We pursue lawsuits for reviews manipulation against dishonest sellers and manufacturers who attempt to purchase fraudulent reviews and the parties who provide and post those reviews. These lawsuits have produced monetary judgments exceeding the annual revenue for such sellers and data allowing us to take additional enforcement actions against others. We suspend and ban the accounts of others who engage in review abuse or otherwise violate our guidelines. We will continue to remove reviews that violate our policies and pursue the sellers and manufacturers who create the demand for fraudulent reviews and the individuals and organizations who supply fraudulent reviews through all available means.

Quote:

Reporting Abuse
For some types of content, including Customer Reviews and Customer Answers, you can report possible violations of these Guidelines by clicking the "Report abuse" link near the content and entering the reason you believe it violates these Guidelines. If no "Report abuse" link is available, you may email community-help@amazon.com, specifying the location of the content and the reason you believe it violates these Guidelines. If you receive an offer for compensation of any kind (including free or discounted products, refunds, or reimbursements) in exchange for creating, modifying, or posting content in violation of these Guidelines, forward the offer, including contact information and Amazon listing, to community-help@amazon.com

Looks like your options are to use the report button on each review or report the seller to community-help@amazon.com.

deadrose · 24th November 2019, 03:25 PM

I reviewed a few products for a company that worked on Amazon for a while, but only because it was expected that you would write an honest review. They'd sometimes ask why you downrated a product, and then pass the detailed info along to the manufacturers, but they never asked you to take down a review or only write nice ones. All I got for doing it was the products I reviewed.

But other companies weren't as ethical, so Amazon instituted their new policies, and now only the unethical reviewers survive. Oops?

blutoski · 24th November 2019, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

The best way to explain this is to copy/paste my latest Amazon product review. The product was a very small fishing tackle kit for about $13.

My review wasn't as nasty and did not contain any "fake review" comments until they emailed me asking me to change my review. That's when I got pissed off. It was actually a 4-star review to begin with!

We'll see if Amazon allows my review.

The product

I have tried to contact Amazon to report the seller but I haven't figured out how yet. I tried one email address but it got bounced back saying I don't have a seller account. I'll figure it out.

I wanted people to know how companies are doing this. I think Amazon is in a lawsuit right now over fake reviews because it is a huge problem.

I replied to the seller's email and told them my feelings and that I intend to report them. I initially gave the product 4-stars, but they wanted 5. Now they got 1.

I started doing this when a company contacted me through my Youtube channel. I make fishing videos. I knew that one day this might happen. I will not lie to people - I actually didn't think they'd mind a 4-star review.

Now that I know how this works I see it everywhere. People taking videos and photos of a cheap, $13 item is a sure sign of fake reviews. If most of the first 30 reviews have photos and glowing reviews they are fake every time. In my experience they are Chinese or Korean companies.

Look at the reviews for this product and see the pattern for yourself.

I don't know if this is the proper forum for this - we don't see a lot of scam threads anymore. I just want to let people know what's up. I have first-hand experience with this.

ETA:
When I say "fake" reviews, I mean people that received free items like I did. My 5-star reviews were real, as were many others, I'm sure.

But how many of these people will be honest when they receive a bad product? Well mine is one of very few non-5-star out of maybe 60 reviews, so you figure it out. People really want free stuff that bad I guess.

As an aspiring author, I've pretty much accepted that there are very few sincere reviews. Meaning, the main problem IMO is the ones that aren't bought but are agenda driven. Just two examples that I came across this week:

* A guy on one of my Discord severs who gives all female science fiction/fantasy authors one star reviews, "so they learn their place."

* a coworker who gives anything made in other countries a bad review, to encourage shifting manufacturing jobs back to Canada

It is what it is, unfortunately.

mgidm86 · 24th November 2019, 03:27 PM

I haven't looked too hard yet. Today is one of my days off though so I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip!

I actually was contacted by two separate companies, one never sent me any product I didn't really like. I knew when I started doing this that one day this would happen (less than 5-star product).

I've done 4 reviews total. The fourth item is the one that earned the non-5-star review. The other items I actually use - a rod stand and a thing for putting line on a reel.

Another bummer is that when you search for fishing gear on Amazon you often see mostly cheap Chinese companies like this at the top of the list. They know how to game the system. And a lot of it is the exact same product rebranded.

I've done a few reviews (sort of) on my Youtube channel but nobody sponsors me. I only have 90 subscribers. I buy a reel - if I like it I talk about it. I make no money on Youtube, it's just for fun.

Maybe I will talk about this in my next video.

blutoski · 24th November 2019, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

And a lot of it is the exact same product rebranded.

Basically, Drop Shipping^WP. Expect every commodity to be sold this way shortly.

mgidm86 · 24th November 2019, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by blutoski

As an aspiring author, I've pretty much accepted that there are very few sincere reviews. Meaning, the main problem IMO is the ones that aren't bought but are agenda driven. Just two examples that I came across this week:

* A guy on one of my Discord severs who gives all female science fiction/fantasy authors one star reviews, "so they learn their place."

* a coworker who gives anything made in other countries a bad review, to encourage shifting manufacturing jobs back to Canada

It is what it is, unfortunately.

I've had people review my product unfairly. I used to make games for the iPhone. One guy gave me one star because my character looked different in the sequel and he wrote a gigantic terrible review on the app store. He trolled me on FB too (I had an account just for the game).

I even asked him to reconsider as his was the first review people saw on the app store. I'm just one guy and it took me years to make. This is not a one-star game at all but oh well. He said no.

It may not be five stars but come on!

One minute video game trailer...(ya it's dated now). This character was my avatar for awhile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title

alfaniner · 24th November 2019, 05:27 PM

Amazon does display a line that says the reviewer actually bought the product through Amazon (Verified Purchaser), although people browsing probably don't even pay attention to that much.

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I've had people review my product unfairly. I used to make games for the iPhone. One guy gave me one star because my character looked different in the sequel and he wrote a gigantic terrible review on the app store. He trolled me on FB too (I had an account just for the game).

I even asked him to reconsider as his was the first review people saw on the app store. I'm just one guy and it took me years to make. This is not a one-star game at all but oh well. He said no.

It may not be five stars but come on!

One minute video game trailer...(ya it's dated now). This character was my avatar for awhile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title

That's a very nice looking game, better than any of mine! I never did get many downloads even though I worked for years on apps. And I think only one app got enough reviews to actually get them posted -- I think you needed a minimum of 10 reviewers.

mgidm86 · 24th November 2019, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Amazon does display a line that says the reviewer actually bought the product through Amazon (Verified Purchaser), although people browsing probably don't even pay attention to that much.

That's a very nice looking game, better than any of mine! I never did get many downloads even though I worked for years on apps. And I think only one app got enough reviews to actually get them posted -- I think you needed a minimum of 10 reviewers.

Thanks for the compliment! I did all graphics, 3D work, programming, audio including music, and marketing. Too bad I suck at that last bit.

My first game made me some good money (2011). This one (the sequel) bombed, but it's a different market now. And the whole pay-to-win thing with games now just turned me off to it.

Amazon does have a Verified Purchaser thing, and the companies get around that by sending me the money via PayPal, after which I can purchase it. That way I'm a verified purchaser. Tada!

My first product review was for a $39 rod stand that holds six rods. They sent me the money via PayPal. I looked this all up to make sure I wasn't being ripped off somehow. Turns out my sister did this once and it's "legit".

Oh I heard back from the seller:

Me:

Quote:

No, and you are breaking Amazon's rules by bribing me with more free products so I will change my review.

I will make sure to include your email in my updated review and when I contact Amazon.

Do not contact me again.

Them:

Quote:

Sorry, we won't disturb you any more, please don't upload the information.

best regards
candy

There is nothing in the emails stating it's not to be shared, and I don't care anyways. Besides I already shared it in my product review. I don't think Amazon has approved of it yet, but hopefully a human will be the one reading it and see what I'm saying. If they reject it I will keep trying.

I held off on ever mentioning this game here because I prefer to be anonymous. I guess that's over

Trebuchet · 24th November 2019, 07:39 PM

I'm surprised they haven't sent you a legal threat letter yet! Seems to happen a lot, but then maybe I read too much Popehat.

Loss Leader · 24th November 2019, 07:41 PM

Amazon claims to be working to address this problem, but it's not working very hard.

William Parcher · 24th November 2019, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

I'm surprised they haven't sent you a legal threat letter yet!

We are going to soo you.

best regards
candy

mgidm86 · 24th November 2019, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by William Parcher

We are going to soo you.

best regards
candy

LOL Exactly! The first seller I worked with started their emails with "Hi mate" and they're obviously in Korea or China. These emails I'm sharing here are actually pretty good compared to the Google translated stuff from the other seller.

It used to be that fake reviews would kinda read the same as each other:

"Great product I buy, you buy too now!"

Now they're recruiting actual English speakers.

I could make so much money if I had the stomach to rip people off. Hanging out here at JREF/ISF you learn all the tricks! It's just not my style. It makes me ill thinking about it.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that will lie to get free trinkets. If I would have given a 5-star review my next product would have been a fly fishing rod.

These reviewers will all have a moral decision to make at some point. I wonder how many will do the right thing? Not many according to the bogus reviews I see.

There's no way so many reviewers think this fishing kit is 5 stars. I don't even know what some of this stuff does. The first kit they sent was good and it did get 5 stars from me. This kit makes no sense.

Hey, anyone want to buy some fishing tackle?

mgidm86 · 24th November 2019, 09:05 PM

What I think they wanted, or at least implied that they wanted, was if the product wasn't good to contact them to resolve any problems or improve their product.

Except:
- it isn't really their product to fix.
- what they really mean is give us 5 stars or piss off.

The purpose of a review is to inform other customers about an existing product. If you want R&D you do that before you release it for sale!

I knew if and when I received a poor product that I would give the bad review and not alert the seller, ending my pro reviewer career. It was 4-stars too! Haha greedy idiots.

dann · 25th November 2019, 12:42 AM

My purchases from Amazon are almost exclusively Kindle e-books, DVDs and ordinary books. At one point, there were an awful lot of Kindle scams, but Amazon seems to have found a way to suppress them and make them so inconspicuous that they no longer come to people's attention.

I wrote these two posts about one Kindle 'book', which only came to my attention because the Danish skeptics were already on to the guy. He used to be a successful psychic, preying on the bereaved until he was debunked on Danish TV when he delivered messages from beyond the (imaginary) grave for a 'widow' and a 'widower' (two actors!) and wasn't aware that the deceased spouses were fake websites. He keeps changing his name - but so far not enough.

His Amazon Kindle scam, however, doesn't seem to have worked out for him.

The Don · 25th November 2019, 01:10 AM

Not Amazon, but IMO on topic because it's about online reviews:

For my 50th birthday I ordered myself a Steinberger GT-Pro guitar because I thought it would be a cute novelty. I ordered it from GAK (a large UK guitar store and a major online seller) from whom I had bought about £3k worth of guitars, pedals and amplifiers over the previous few years.

They promised next day delivery but it took over a week and a half for the thing to arrive, which meant that it wasn't there for my birthday - and the gig we were playing for that birthday. I gave them 3 stars out of five saying that whilst both guitar and price were excellent, delivery wasn't. I spent quite a lot of time over several phone calls chasing down the delivery so I felt vindicated dropping those two blobs.

GAK contacted me and offered me strings "worth" 10% of the purchase price of the guitar if I would change my review to a five star review.

I declined their offer, left my review untouched and haven't bought a thing from them in the last two and a half years (and don't ever intend to buy from them again).

I think that their ploy to "tidy up" that review has backfired badly for them

GlennB · 25th November 2019, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

The best way to explain this is to copy/paste my latest Amazon product review. The product was a very small fishing tackle kit for about $13.

My review wasn't as nasty and did not contain any "fake review" comments until they emailed me asking me to change my review. That's when I got pissed off. It was actually a 4-star review to begin with!
...

I must have misunderstood something here. Why was your scathing review accompanied by 4 stars? Sounds more like 1 star stuff to me.

Or if you later changed it to the scathing version why give it the more flattering one in the first place?

Vixen · 25th November 2019, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Amazon does display a line that says the reviewer actually bought the product through Amazon (Verified Purchaser), although people browsing probably don't even pay attention to that much.

That's a very nice looking game, better than any of mine! I never did get many downloads even though I worked for years on apps. And I think only one app got enough reviews to actually get them posted -- I think you needed a minimum of 10 reviewers.

I'm a VINE reviewer and I get lots of of free products for review. Amazon clearly state 'review of a free product'. There used to be many solicited reviews for new books as authors need a few positive reviews for it to sell or become a bestseller. In addition, many people won't buy the book unless others have endorsed it as worth reading. Amazon came down very heavily on this practice after a SUNDAY TIMES journalist brought out a fake book about cactus growing, procured a load of fake reviews and then did an exposé when the book became a #1 Best Seller (!) in an obscure 'cactus growing' category.

To get around this, apart from offering the book as a VINE review for Amazon's band of reviewers (in fact, their #1 reviewer got through two books a day and I found I scored the most positive 'helpful' reviews in book reviewing, being once in Amazon's 'Top 1000 reviewers') authors then found they could get reviews via 'Net Gallery' whereby a reviewer gets a free book, or via Goodreads as a 'Giveaway'. So now you can see lots of reviews via 'Net Gallery' which are carefully labelled with a disclaimer, 'this was a free copy from Net Gallery'.

The downside to all this is that only the rich publishing houses - or manufacturers of other products - can afford to offer their products via the VINE programme - you literally need several thousand pounds/dollars to get your product reviewed in this way, and I believe Net Gallery costs circa £500, so not really for the independent or self-publisher.

As a VINE reviewer I did once have my email address in my profile in the hope of being offered something like high-end laptops or cars to review. Instead I was inundated by mostly Chinese firms offering cheap kack and demanding I buy it from Amazon first - to get the 'verified purchase' legend and then they would refund it via paypal. In the interests of investigative journalism, I tried this out with a bluetooth bathroom radio/speaker. It was circa £15 and sure enough after much correspondence and follow ups, she did eventually refund my paypal...except it was minus paypal fees, so that was the first and last time I took advantage of a free product offer in exchange for a review, sticking to VINE only. Despite removing my email address (for junk only) years ago, I still regularly receive 'free product' offers, which I automatically label 'spam'.

You have to blame the system. If publishers -and others - are willing to invest in thousands to have it reviewed by Amazon reviewers, then you know reviews work and bring in revenues. I wouldn't begrudge an author wanting a review, there is nothing dishonest in that per se. I always give books and products an honest review and as I know authors are hoping for a good review I try not to be too harsh.

mgidm86 · 25th November 2019, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

I must have misunderstood something here. Why was your scathing review accompanied by 4 stars? Sounds more like 1 star stuff to me.

Or if you later changed it to the scathing version why give it the more flattering one in the first place?

Good question.

My initial review wasn't bad, but I said some negative things, and it had a caveat - I mentioned that this pack would not make a good gift for most people because it was sort of a random selection of tackle, at least to me. If you add up the components they are cheaper than buying them separate, but only certain anglers would want or even know how to use some of it.

It's a good value for cheap gear for specific people. It's still an okay value even if you only count the items that are generally useful, but you end up with a lot of extra stuff you'll never use.

I stressed that point in my review.

The first kit they sent me was for bass fishing and it was good. It had a cool box and the items all made sense. I tried the crank bait and the action was good.

I actually had a difficult time deciding how to review this one. Possibly because of the free product thing. As a skeptic I must admit that it's possible. It wasn't a bad product, just weird.

It IS still a good buy though even if you just counted the basics - weights, hooks, swivels... and add up the price, but you could get a kit for the same price with no unneeded junk.

So I came up with 4 stars. Good value but all the extra parts could have been more useful. And the box won't last either.

After the email from them I changed the entire review, however it hasn't been published yet. It normally would be by now but the original one still stands, last I looked.

I will rethink my new review. I did one-star I think but I'm not sure that's fair. But neither are all the fives! I was pissed off at the time.

Hmmm maybe I can return the kit for a refund haha.

Roger Ramjets · 25th November 2019, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I replied to the seller's email and told them my feelings and that I intend to report them. I initially gave the product 4-stars, but they wanted 5. Now they got 1.

So you are protesting by giving a fake review? It's just as I suspected. All those bad reviews are from people who were pissed off for some reason unrelated to the product itself.

My first ever purchase from Amazon turned up today. Hoping it works and they pay me to give a glowing review!

angrysoba · 26th November 2019, 01:12 AM

It seems to be very common. Even supposedly staid academic historians who we might expect to be above that kind of thing (ha ha! Yeah, right. In reality academics spend a lot of their time in spiteful and petty bickering arguments), do this kind of thing.

Orlando Figes, for example, was discovered to have been posting pseudonymous reviews that enthusiastically praised his own works and poured scorn on those of his rivals:

Here are some samples:

Quote:

Description by "Historian" of Molotov's Magic Lantern, by Rachel Polonsky:

"This is the sort of book that makes you wonder why it was ever published … Her writing is so dense and pretentious, itself so tangled in literary allusions, that it is hard to follow or enjoy."

"Historian" described Robert Service's 2008 work Comrades, a world history of communism, as 'rubbish':

"This is an awful book. It is very poorly written and dull to read … it has no insights to make it worth the bother of ploughing through its dreadful prose."

The same reviewer found one writer's work rather more to their liking. Orlando Figes's 2008 The Whisperers was "beautiful and necessary":

"A fascinating book about the interior lives of ordinary Russians … it tells us more about the Soviet system than any other book I know. Beautifully written, it is a rich and deeply moving history, which leaves the reader awed, humbled, yet uplifted … Figes visits their ordeals with enormous compassion, and he brings their history to life with his superb story-telling skills. I hope he writes for ever."

https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...reviews-rivals

dann · 26th November 2019, 06:39 AM

Nothing better than when guys like Orlando Figes get caught in the act.

TragicMonkey · 26th November 2019, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by dann

Nothing better than when guys like Orlando Figes get caught in the act.

It leaves me awed, humbled, but uplifted!

calebprime · 26th November 2019, 06:55 AM

Here's Whitman's anonymous review of his own work, Leaves of Grass, after it was attacked by almost everybody. Then he got that review (for real) by Emerson.

posted by Walt about Walt:

Quote:

Self-reliant, with haughty eyes, assuming to himself all the attributes of his country, steps Walt Whitman into literature, talking like a man unaware that there was ever hitherto such a production as a book, or such a being as a writer. Every move of him has the free play of the muscle of one who never knew what it was to feel that he stood in the presence of a superior. Every word that falls from his mouth shows silent disdain and defiance of the old theories and forms. Every phrase announces new laws; not once do his lips unclose except in conformity with them.

TragicMonkey · 26th November 2019, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by calebprime

Here's Whitman's anonymous review of his own work, Leaves of Grass, after it was attacked by almost everybody. Then he got that review (for real) by Emerson.

posted by Walt about Walt:

Whitman's OTT purple prose always tickles my funny bone. My 11th grade English teacher was astonished when I couldn't stop laughing uncontrollably when we had to read aloud Whitman's poem about Lincoln's death. It just struck me as so ridiculous. She'd never had to kick anybody out of the classroom for such a reaction before. I nearly passed out in the hall from lack of breath.

Minoosh · 26th November 2019, 02:19 PM

I'm confused.

Not really clear on how Amazon works. But it makes money from all transactions, right? So it has an interest in good reviews, because it boosts business for e-commerce?

I bought a carpet-cleaning machine about a year ago. It was a Hoover product, not some off-brand. It was also cheaper than other machines, by a lot. I subscribe to Consumer Reports, and they really didn't like this model. It cleaned OK but left the carpet too damp. But the online reviews were all glowing. They didn't sound like Chinese people. I couldn't reconcile the difference, but I ordered it anyway. It was $120 or so, literally half the cost of other machines. Now I wish I'd gotten one CR rated higher. There are plenty of good machines; in fact there were more expensive Hoovers I might have ordered base on CR rankings.

There's no household junk quite as annoying as a suboptimal carpet cleaning machine.

Now I think there must have been a massive overstock somewhere. I guess I assumed that it would be OK, being Hoover. But I think I may just be naive about the reality of global manufacturing. Apparently this one was cheap to make, and matched Hoover's specs OK, but could it just be a crummy design that happened to be overstocked?

Ordered through Amazon, but I'm never going to trust those reviews again. Amazon makes money whether I'm happy or not. I would order through them again but will mostly ignore reviews. Actually I don't really want to order from them either. Something about the whole operation is really turning me off.

Sadly my dog is getting frail

and I don't know how much longer I'm going to want a carpet cleaner at all.

angrysoba · 26th November 2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

I'm confused.

Not really clear on how Amazon works. But it makes money from all transactions, right? So it has an interest in good reviews, because it boosts business for e-commerce?

I bought a carpet-cleaning machine about a year ago. It was a Hoover product, not some off-brand. It was also cheaper than other machines, by a lot. I subscribe to Consumer Reports, and they really didn't like this model. It cleaned OK but left the carpet too damp. But the online reviews were all glowing. They didn't sound like Chinese people. I couldn't reconcile the difference, but I ordered it anyway. It was $120 or so, literally half the cost of other machines. Now I wish I'd gotten one CR rated higher. There are plenty of good machines; in fact there were more expensive Hoovers I might have ordered base on CR rankings.

There's no household junk quite as annoying as a suboptimal carpet cleaning machine.

Now I think there must have been a massive overstock somewhere. I guess I assumed that it would be OK, being Hoover. But I think I may just be naive about the reality of global manufacturing. Apparently this one was cheap to make, and matched Hoover's specs OK, but could it just be a crummy design that happened to be overstocked?

Ordered through Amazon, but I'm never going to trust those reviews again. Amazon makes money whether I'm happy or not. I would order through them again but will mostly ignore reviews. Actually I don't really want to order from them either. Something about the whole operation is really turning me off.

Sadly my dog is getting frail

and I don't know how much longer I'm going to want a carpet cleaner at all.

If you want to know why Amazon might have an interest in honest reviews rather than allowing fake positive reviews it’s because their reputation for honesty is also at stake. If you discover that they tolerate dishonesty from those who sell on their site, you might end up going to their competit.... oh, wait!

kookbreaker · 26th November 2019, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

One minute video game trailer...(ya it's dated now). This character was my avatar for awhile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title

I admit it, I genuinely laughed at the human pachinko machine.

blutoski · 30th November 2019, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

If you want to know why Amazon might have an interest in honest reviews rather than allowing fake positive reviews it’s because their reputation for honesty is also at stake. If you discover that they tolerate dishonesty from those who sell on their site, you might end up going to their competit.... oh, wait!

This is a good clarification. They prefer honest reviews, because if the customers can't identify good vs bad products on the platform, they will stop using it whether there's a competitor or not. Spending money on junk sucks.

I experienced something this back in the 1980s when visiting East German relatives. They asked me to bring name brand items (eg Tylenol, VHS copies of popular films, music) because brand counterfeiting was so widespread over there nobody bought *anything* anymore. Poor intellectual property protection was spiralling the economy down to the bare minimum. Most purchases were most likely swindle, so don't bother.

I had one experience on Amazon that did it for me: I bought an RCA brand record cleaner (the felt kind with a hollow handle to store the fluid in) from a well reviewed vendor, which turned out to be a ****** fake made from a shred of used corduroy pants.

mgidm86 · 30th November 2019, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

So you are protesting by giving a fake review? It's just as I suspected. All those bad reviews are from people who were pissed off for some reason unrelated to the product itself.

My first ever purchase from Amazon turned up today. Hoping it works and they pay me to give a glowing review!

Did you read the post I made right before yours?

24th November 2019, 02:43 PM	#1
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	Amazon Fake Reviews - My Experience And Advice The best way to explain this is to copy/paste my latest Amazon product review. The product was a very small fishing tackle kit for about $13. My review wasn't as nasty and did not contain any "fake review" comments until they emailed me asking me to change my review. That's when I got pissed off. It was actually a 4-star review to begin with! Quote: This is a cheap set of crap and most items won't be used by most anglers. Poor weak hooks that are not sharp, too many sinkers, a box that will fall apart very soon. That is my product review, and it is my real opinion, unlike most reviews for this product. Keep reading... These are fake reviews - I know because TOPFORT contacted me and offered me free stuff for positive reviews. They sent me this item for free and I am NOT required to mention that in my review. When I did not rate this product 5-stars they sent me this: ----- Hello, are you online? Can you help us change 4-star to 5-star? We will be very grateful. We will provide you with more products in the future best regards candy ----- This is against Amazon's policy and I will report them. Tip: when you see reviews of a silly little product like this that include half a dozen photos or videos from dozens of reviewers, they are fake. You really think someone would make a video for this product? We are TOLD to include photos and videos in our reviews. We are NOT told to mention that this review was in exchange for free products. They send us money to our PayPal, then we buy the product with actual money. This way we can leave a review. This is a huge problem at Amazon. The cheap fishing gear area here is loaded with fake reviews. Tip: Sort the reviews by date (most recent), not popularity. Normally a company wants 50 - 100 fake 5-star reviews when the product is first launched. Skip those reviews. You see all these so-called avid fisherman giving this product five stars? Don't believe them. I have rated three products 5-stars because they were good products. I knew as soon as I got a bad on that I would have to be honest, and this is that review. Do not buy anything from dishonest sellers like TOPFORT and watch for fake reviews. We'll see if Amazon allows my review. The product I have tried to contact Amazon to report the seller but I haven't figured out how yet. I tried one email address but it got bounced back saying I don't have a seller account. I'll figure it out. I wanted people to know how companies are doing this. I think Amazon is in a lawsuit right now over fake reviews because it is a huge problem. I replied to the seller's email and told them my feelings and that I intend to report them. I initially gave the product 4-stars, but they wanted 5. Now they got 1. I started doing this when a company contacted me through my Youtube channel. I make fishing videos. I knew that one day this might happen. I will not lie to people - I actually didn't think they'd mind a 4-star review. Now that I know how this works I see it everywhere. People taking videos and photos of a cheap, $13 item is a sure sign of fake reviews. If most of the first 30 reviews have photos and glowing reviews they are fake every time. In my experience they are Chinese or Korean companies. Look at the reviews for this product and see the pattern for yourself. I don't know if this is the proper forum for this - we don't see a lot of scam threads anymore. I just want to let people know what's up. I have first-hand experience with this. ETA: When I say "fake" reviews, I mean people that received free items like I did. My 5-star reviews were real, as were many others, I'm sure. But how many of these people will be honest when they receive a bad product? Well mine is one of very few non-5-star out of maybe 60 reviews, so you figure it out. People really want free stuff that bad I guess.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. Last edited by mgidm86; 24th November 2019 at 02:55 PM.

24th November 2019, 03:12 PM	#2
AJM8125 Potsing Whiled Runk Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 20,850	You're right. Those reviews look fake as ****. Have you found these yet? https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custo...4633580&sr=1-1 Quote: We pursue lawsuits for reviews manipulation against dishonest sellers and manufacturers who attempt to purchase fraudulent reviews and the parties who provide and post those reviews. These lawsuits have produced monetary judgments exceeding the annual revenue for such sellers and data allowing us to take additional enforcement actions against others. We suspend and ban the accounts of others who engage in review abuse or otherwise violate our guidelines. We will continue to remove reviews that violate our policies and pursue the sellers and manufacturers who create the demand for fraudulent reviews and the individuals and organizations who supply fraudulent reviews through all available means. Quote: Reporting Abuse For some types of content, including Customer Reviews and Customer Answers, you can report possible violations of these Guidelines by clicking the "Report abuse" link near the content and entering the reason you believe it violates these Guidelines. If no "Report abuse" link is available, you may email community-help@amazon.com, specifying the location of the content and the reason you believe it violates these Guidelines. If you receive an offer for compensation of any kind (including free or discounted products, refunds, or reimbursements) in exchange for creating, modifying, or posting content in violation of these Guidelines, forward the offer, including contact information and Amazon listing, to community-help@amazon.com Looks like your options are to use the report button on each review or report the seller to community-help@amazon.com.
	__________________ The better you get, the harder you work. Last edited by AJM8125; 24th November 2019 at 03:14 PM.

24th November 2019, 03:26 PM	#4
blutoski Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,836	Originally Posted by mgidm86 The best way to explain this is to copy/paste my latest Amazon product review. The product was a very small fishing tackle kit for about $13. My review wasn't as nasty and did not contain any "fake review" comments until they emailed me asking me to change my review. That's when I got pissed off. It was actually a 4-star review to begin with! We'll see if Amazon allows my review. The product I have tried to contact Amazon to report the seller but I haven't figured out how yet. I tried one email address but it got bounced back saying I don't have a seller account. I'll figure it out. I wanted people to know how companies are doing this. I think Amazon is in a lawsuit right now over fake reviews because it is a huge problem. I replied to the seller's email and told them my feelings and that I intend to report them. I initially gave the product 4-stars, but they wanted 5. Now they got 1. I started doing this when a company contacted me through my Youtube channel. I make fishing videos. I knew that one day this might happen. I will not lie to people - I actually didn't think they'd mind a 4-star review. Now that I know how this works I see it everywhere. People taking videos and photos of a cheap, $13 item is a sure sign of fake reviews. If most of the first 30 reviews have photos and glowing reviews they are fake every time. In my experience they are Chinese or Korean companies. Look at the reviews for this product and see the pattern for yourself. I don't know if this is the proper forum for this - we don't see a lot of scam threads anymore. I just want to let people know what's up. I have first-hand experience with this. ETA: When I say "fake" reviews, I mean people that received free items like I did. My 5-star reviews were real, as were many others, I'm sure. But how many of these people will be honest when they receive a bad product? Well mine is one of very few non-5-star out of maybe 60 reviews, so you figure it out. People really want free stuff that bad I guess. As an aspiring author, I've pretty much accepted that there are very few sincere reviews. Meaning, the main problem IMO is the ones that aren't bought but are agenda driven. Just two examples that I came across this week: * A guy on one of my Discord severs who gives all female science fiction/fantasy authors one star reviews, "so they learn their place." * a coworker who gives anything made in other countries a bad review, to encourage shifting manufacturing jobs back to Canada It is what it is, unfortunately.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

24th November 2019, 03:27 PM	#5
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	I haven't looked too hard yet. Today is one of my days off though so I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip! I actually was contacted by two separate companies, one never sent me any product I didn't really like. I knew when I started doing this that one day this would happen (less than 5-star product). I've done 4 reviews total. The fourth item is the one that earned the non-5-star review. The other items I actually use - a rod stand and a thing for putting line on a reel. Another bummer is that when you search for fishing gear on Amazon you often see mostly cheap Chinese companies like this at the top of the list. They know how to game the system. And a lot of it is the exact same product rebranded. I've done a few reviews (sort of) on my Youtube channel but nobody sponsors me. I only have 90 subscribers. I buy a reel - if I like it I talk about it. I make no money on Youtube, it's just for fun. Maybe I will talk about this in my next video.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. Last edited by mgidm86; 24th November 2019 at 03:29 PM.

24th November 2019, 03:33 PM	#6
blutoski Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,836	Originally Posted by mgidm86 And a lot of it is the exact same product rebranded. Basically, Drop Shipping^WP. Expect every commodity to be sold this way shortly.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

24th November 2019, 03:25 PM	#3
deadrose Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the wet side of the mountains Posts: 3,246	I reviewed a few products for a company that worked on Amazon for a while, but only because it was expected that you would write an honest review. They'd sometimes ask why you downrated a product, and then pass the detailed info along to the manufacturers, but they never asked you to take down a review or only write nice ones. All I got for doing it was the products I reviewed. But other companies weren't as ethical, so Amazon instituted their new policies, and now only the unethical reviewers survive. Oops?

24th November 2019, 03:35 PM	#7
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	Originally Posted by blutoski As an aspiring author, I've pretty much accepted that there are very few sincere reviews. Meaning, the main problem IMO is the ones that aren't bought but are agenda driven. Just two examples that I came across this week: * A guy on one of my Discord severs who gives all female science fiction/fantasy authors one star reviews, "so they learn their place." * a coworker who gives anything made in other countries a bad review, to encourage shifting manufacturing jobs back to Canada It is what it is, unfortunately. I've had people review my product unfairly. I used to make games for the iPhone. One guy gave me one star because my character looked different in the sequel and he wrote a gigantic terrible review on the app store. He trolled me on FB too (I had an account just for the game). I even asked him to reconsider as his was the first review people saw on the app store. I'm just one guy and it took me years to make. This is not a one-star game at all but oh well. He said no. It may not be five stars but come on! One minute video game trailer...(ya it's dated now). This character was my avatar for awhile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

24th November 2019, 05:27 PM	#8
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 20,955	Amazon does display a line that says the reviewer actually bought the product through Amazon (Verified Purchaser), although people browsing probably don't even pay attention to that much. Originally Posted by mgidm86 I've had people review my product unfairly. I used to make games for the iPhone. One guy gave me one star because my character looked different in the sequel and he wrote a gigantic terrible review on the app store. He trolled me on FB too (I had an account just for the game). I even asked him to reconsider as his was the first review people saw on the app store. I'm just one guy and it took me years to make. This is not a one-star game at all but oh well. He said no. It may not be five stars but come on! One minute video game trailer...(ya it's dated now). This character was my avatar for awhile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title That's a very nice looking game, better than any of mine! I never did get many downloads even though I worked for years on apps. And I think only one app got enough reviews to actually get them posted -- I think you needed a minimum of 10 reviewers.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

24th November 2019, 07:10 PM	#9
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	Originally Posted by alfaniner Amazon does display a line that says the reviewer actually bought the product through Amazon (Verified Purchaser), although people browsing probably don't even pay attention to that much. That's a very nice looking game, better than any of mine! I never did get many downloads even though I worked for years on apps. And I think only one app got enough reviews to actually get them posted -- I think you needed a minimum of 10 reviewers. Thanks for the compliment! I did all graphics, 3D work, programming, audio including music, and marketing. Too bad I suck at that last bit. My first game made me some good money (2011). This one (the sequel) bombed, but it's a different market now. And the whole pay-to-win thing with games now just turned me off to it. Amazon does have a Verified Purchaser thing, and the companies get around that by sending me the money via PayPal, after which I can purchase it. That way I'm a verified purchaser. Tada! My first product review was for a $39 rod stand that holds six rods. They sent me the money via PayPal. I looked this all up to make sure I wasn't being ripped off somehow. Turns out my sister did this once and it's "legit". Oh I heard back from the seller: Me: Quote: No, and you are breaking Amazon's rules by bribing me with more free products so I will change my review. I will make sure to include your email in my updated review and when I contact Amazon. Do not contact me again. Them: Quote: Sorry, we won't disturb you any more, please don't upload the information. best regards candy There is nothing in the emails stating it's not to be shared, and I don't care anyways. Besides I already shared it in my product review. I don't think Amazon has approved of it yet, but hopefully a human will be the one reading it and see what I'm saying. If they reject it I will keep trying. I held off on ever mentioning this game here because I prefer to be anonymous. I guess that's over
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures. Last edited by mgidm86; 24th November 2019 at 07:12 PM.

24th November 2019, 07:39 PM	#10
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwet Posts: 23,733	I'm surprised they haven't sent you a legal threat letter yet! Seems to happen a lot, but then maybe I read too much Popehat.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

24th November 2019, 07:41 PM	#11
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 26,958	Amazon claims to be working to address this problem, but it's not working very hard.
	__________________ I have the honor to be Your Obdt. S^t L. Leader

24th November 2019, 07:55 PM	#12
William Parcher Show me the monkey! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,555	Originally Posted by Trebuchet I'm surprised they haven't sent you a legal threat letter yet! We are going to soo you. best regards candy
	__________________ Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

24th November 2019, 08:59 PM	#13
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	Originally Posted by William Parcher We are going to soo you. best regards candy LOL Exactly! The first seller I worked with started their emails with "Hi mate" and they're obviously in Korea or China. These emails I'm sharing here are actually pretty good compared to the Google translated stuff from the other seller. It used to be that fake reviews would kinda read the same as each other: "Great product I buy, you buy too now!" Now they're recruiting actual English speakers. I could make so much money if I had the stomach to rip people off. Hanging out here at JREF/ISF you learn all the tricks! It's just not my style. It makes me ill thinking about it. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that will lie to get free trinkets. If I would have given a 5-star review my next product would have been a fly fishing rod. These reviewers will all have a moral decision to make at some point. I wonder how many will do the right thing? Not many according to the bogus reviews I see. There's no way so many reviewers think this fishing kit is 5 stars. I don't even know what some of this stuff does. The first kit they sent was good and it did get 5 stars from me. This kit makes no sense. Hey, anyone want to buy some fishing tackle?
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

24th November 2019, 09:05 PM	#14
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	What I think they wanted, or at least implied that they wanted, was if the product wasn't good to contact them to resolve any problems or improve their product. Except: - it isn't really their product to fix. - what they really mean is give us 5 stars or piss off. The purpose of a review is to inform other customers about an existing product. If you want R&D you do that before you release it for sale! I knew if and when I received a poor product that I would give the bad review and not alert the seller, ending my pro reviewer career. It was 4-stars too! Haha greedy idiots.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

25th November 2019, 12:42 AM	#15
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,124	My purchases from Amazon are almost exclusively Kindle e-books, DVDs and ordinary books. At one point, there were an awful lot of Kindle scams, but Amazon seems to have found a way to suppress them and make them so inconspicuous that they no longer come to people's attention. I wrote these two posts about one Kindle 'book', which only came to my attention because the Danish skeptics were already on to the guy. He used to be a successful psychic, preying on the bereaved until he was debunked on Danish TV when he delivered messages from beyond the (imaginary) grave for a 'widow' and a 'widower' (two actors!) and wasn't aware that the deceased spouses were fake websites. He keeps changing his name - but so far not enough. His Amazon Kindle scam, however, doesn't seem to have worked out for him.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,124	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

25th November 2019, 01:10 AM	#16
The Don Penultimate Amazing August Co-Pither Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 27,452	Not Amazon, but IMO on topic because it's about online reviews: For my 50th birthday I ordered myself a Steinberger GT-Pro guitar because I thought it would be a cute novelty. I ordered it from GAK (a large UK guitar store and a major online seller) from whom I had bought about £3k worth of guitars, pedals and amplifiers over the previous few years. They promised next day delivery but it took over a week and a half for the thing to arrive, which meant that it wasn't there for my birthday - and the gig we were playing for that birthday. I gave them 3 stars out of five saying that whilst both guitar and price were excellent, delivery wasn't. I spent quite a lot of time over several phone calls chasing down the delivery so I felt vindicated dropping those two blobs. GAK contacted me and offered me strings "worth" 10% of the purchase price of the guitar if I would change my review to a five star review. I declined their offer, left my review untouched and haven't bought a thing from them in the last two and a half years (and don't ever intend to buy from them again). I think that their ploy to "tidy up" that review has backfired badly for them

25th November 2019, 01:15 AM	#17
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arcadia, Greece Posts: 25,543	Originally Posted by mgidm86 The best way to explain this is to copy/paste my latest Amazon product review. The product was a very small fishing tackle kit for about $13. My review wasn't as nasty and did not contain any "fake review" comments until they emailed me asking me to change my review. That's when I got pissed off. It was actually a 4-star review to begin with! ... I must have misunderstood something here. Why was your scathing review accompanied by 4 stars? Sounds more like 1 star stuff to me. Or if you later changed it to the scathing version why give it the more flattering one in the first place?
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut Last edited by GlennB; 25th November 2019 at 01:17 AM.

25th November 2019, 01:33 AM	#18
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Suomi Posts: 17,408	Originally Posted by alfaniner Amazon does display a line that says the reviewer actually bought the product through Amazon (Verified Purchaser), although people browsing probably don't even pay attention to that much. That's a very nice looking game, better than any of mine! I never did get many downloads even though I worked for years on apps. And I think only one app got enough reviews to actually get them posted -- I think you needed a minimum of 10 reviewers. I'm a VINE reviewer and I get lots of of free products for review. Amazon clearly state 'review of a free product'. There used to be many solicited reviews for new books as authors need a few positive reviews for it to sell or become a bestseller. In addition, many people won't buy the book unless others have endorsed it as worth reading. Amazon came down very heavily on this practice after a SUNDAY TIMES journalist brought out a fake book about cactus growing, procured a load of fake reviews and then did an exposé when the book became a #1 Best Seller (!) in an obscure 'cactus growing' category. To get around this, apart from offering the book as a VINE review for Amazon's band of reviewers (in fact, their #1 reviewer got through two books a day and I found I scored the most positive 'helpful' reviews in book reviewing, being once in Amazon's 'Top 1000 reviewers') authors then found they could get reviews via 'Net Gallery' whereby a reviewer gets a free book, or via Goodreads as a 'Giveaway'. So now you can see lots of reviews via 'Net Gallery' which are carefully labelled with a disclaimer, 'this was a free copy from Net Gallery'. The downside to all this is that only the rich publishing houses - or manufacturers of other products - can afford to offer their products via the VINE programme - you literally need several thousand pounds/dollars to get your product reviewed in this way, and I believe Net Gallery costs circa £500, so not really for the independent or self-publisher. As a VINE reviewer I did once have my email address in my profile in the hope of being offered something like high-end laptops or cars to review. Instead I was inundated by mostly Chinese firms offering cheap kack and demanding I buy it from Amazon first - to get the 'verified purchase' legend and then they would refund it via paypal. In the interests of investigative journalism, I tried this out with a bluetooth bathroom radio/speaker. It was circa £15 and sure enough after much correspondence and follow ups, she did eventually refund my paypal...except it was minus paypal fees, so that was the first and last time I took advantage of a free product offer in exchange for a review, sticking to VINE only. Despite removing my email address (for junk only) years ago, I still regularly receive 'free product' offers, which I automatically label 'spam'. You have to blame the system. If publishers -and others - are willing to invest in thousands to have it reviewed by Amazon reviewers, then you know reviews work and bring in revenues. I wouldn't begrudge an author wanting a review, there is nothing dishonest in that per se. I always give books and products an honest review and as I know authors are hoping for a good review I try not to be too harsh.
	__________________ Then let the way appear, steps unto heav'n. All that thou sendest me, in mercy giv'n.'

25th November 2019, 04:18 PM	#19
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	Originally Posted by GlennB I must have misunderstood something here. Why was your scathing review accompanied by 4 stars? Sounds more like 1 star stuff to me. Or if you later changed it to the scathing version why give it the more flattering one in the first place? Good question. My initial review wasn't bad, but I said some negative things, and it had a caveat - I mentioned that this pack would not make a good gift for most people because it was sort of a random selection of tackle, at least to me. If you add up the components they are cheaper than buying them separate, but only certain anglers would want or even know how to use some of it. It's a good value for cheap gear for specific people. It's still an okay value even if you only count the items that are generally useful, but you end up with a lot of extra stuff you'll never use. I stressed that point in my review. The first kit they sent me was for bass fishing and it was good. It had a cool box and the items all made sense. I tried the crank bait and the action was good. I actually had a difficult time deciding how to review this one. Possibly because of the free product thing. As a skeptic I must admit that it's possible. It wasn't a bad product, just weird. It IS still a good buy though even if you just counted the basics - weights, hooks, swivels... and add up the price, but you could get a kit for the same price with no unneeded junk. So I came up with 4 stars. Good value but all the extra parts could have been more useful. And the box won't last either. After the email from them I changed the entire review, however it hasn't been published yet. It normally would be by now but the original one still stands, last I looked. I will rethink my new review. I did one-star I think but I'm not sure that's fair. But neither are all the fives! I was pissed off at the time. Hmmm maybe I can return the kit for a refund haha.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

25th November 2019, 05:35 PM	#20
Roger Ramjets Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 4,254	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I replied to the seller's email and told them my feelings and that I intend to report them. I initially gave the product 4-stars, but they wanted 5. Now they got 1. So you are protesting by giving a fake review? It's just as I suspected. All those bad reviews are from people who were pissed off for some reason unrelated to the product itself. My first ever purchase from Amazon turned up today. Hoping it works and they pay me to give a glowing review!
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

26th November 2019, 01:12 AM	#21
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 25,888	It seems to be very common. Even supposedly staid academic historians who we might expect to be above that kind of thing (ha ha! Yeah, right. In reality academics spend a lot of their time in spiteful and petty bickering arguments), do this kind of thing. Orlando Figes, for example, was discovered to have been posting pseudonymous reviews that enthusiastically praised his own works and poured scorn on those of his rivals: Here are some samples: Quote: Description by "Historian" of Molotov's Magic Lantern, by Rachel Polonsky: "This is the sort of book that makes you wonder why it was ever published … Her writing is so dense and pretentious, itself so tangled in literary allusions, that it is hard to follow or enjoy." "Historian" described Robert Service's 2008 work Comrades, a world history of communism, as 'rubbish': "This is an awful book. It is very poorly written and dull to read … it has no insights to make it worth the bother of ploughing through its dreadful prose." The same reviewer found one writer's work rather more to their liking. Orlando Figes's 2008 The Whisperers was "beautiful and necessary": "A fascinating book about the interior lives of ordinary Russians … it tells us more about the Soviet system than any other book I know. Beautifully written, it is a rich and deeply moving history, which leaves the reader awed, humbled, yet uplifted … Figes visits their ordeals with enormous compassion, and he brings their history to life with his superb story-telling skills. I hope he writes for ever." https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...reviews-rivals
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

26th November 2019, 06:39 AM	#22
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,124	Nothing better than when guys like Orlando Figes get caught in the act.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 9,124	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

26th November 2019, 06:48 AM	#23
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles July Co-Pither, August TLA & Co-Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 52,441	Originally Posted by dann Nothing better than when guys like Orlando Figes get caught in the act. It leaves me awed, humbled, but uplifted!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

26th November 2019, 06:55 AM	#24
calebprime moleman Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,478	Here's Whitman's anonymous review of his own work, Leaves of Grass, after it was attacked by almost everybody. Then he got that review (for real) by Emerson. posted by Walt about Walt: Quote: Self-reliant, with haughty eyes, assuming to himself all the attributes of his country, steps Walt Whitman into literature, talking like a man unaware that there was ever hitherto such a production as a book, or such a being as a writer. Every move of him has the free play of the muscle of one who never knew what it was to feel that he stood in the presence of a superior. Every word that falls from his mouth shows silent disdain and defiance of the old theories and forms. Every phrase announces new laws; not once do his lips unclose except in conformity with them.
calebprime moleman Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,478	__________________ Now you know for certain what the big wide world is good for.

26th November 2019, 07:04 AM	#25
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles July Co-Pither, August TLA & Co-Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 52,441	Originally Posted by calebprime Here's Whitman's anonymous review of his own work, Leaves of Grass, after it was attacked by almost everybody. Then he got that review (for real) by Emerson. posted by Walt about Walt: Whitman's OTT purple prose always tickles my funny bone. My 11th grade English teacher was astonished when I couldn't stop laughing uncontrollably when we had to read aloud Whitman's poem about Lincoln's death. It just struck me as so ridiculous. She'd never had to kick anybody out of the classroom for such a reaction before. I nearly passed out in the hall from lack of breath.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

26th November 2019, 02:19 PM	#26
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 10,104	I'm confused. Not really clear on how Amazon works. But it makes money from all transactions, right? So it has an interest in good reviews, because it boosts business for e-commerce? I bought a carpet-cleaning machine about a year ago. It was a Hoover product, not some off-brand. It was also cheaper than other machines, by a lot. I subscribe to Consumer Reports, and they really didn't like this model. It cleaned OK but left the carpet too damp. But the online reviews were all glowing. They didn't sound like Chinese people. I couldn't reconcile the difference, but I ordered it anyway. It was $120 or so, literally half the cost of other machines. Now I wish I'd gotten one CR rated higher. There are plenty of good machines; in fact there were more expensive Hoovers I might have ordered base on CR rankings. There's no household junk quite as annoying as a suboptimal carpet cleaning machine. Now I think there must have been a massive overstock somewhere. I guess I assumed that it would be OK, being Hoover. But I think I may just be naive about the reality of global manufacturing. Apparently this one was cheap to make, and matched Hoover's specs OK, but could it just be a crummy design that happened to be overstocked? Ordered through Amazon, but I'm never going to trust those reviews again. Amazon makes money whether I'm happy or not. I would order through them again but will mostly ignore reviews. Actually I don't really want to order from them either. Something about the whole operation is really turning me off. Sadly my dog is getting frail and I don't know how much longer I'm going to want a carpet cleaner at all.

26th November 2019, 02:25 PM	#27
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 25,888	Originally Posted by Minoosh I'm confused. Not really clear on how Amazon works. But it makes money from all transactions, right? So it has an interest in good reviews, because it boosts business for e-commerce? I bought a carpet-cleaning machine about a year ago. It was a Hoover product, not some off-brand. It was also cheaper than other machines, by a lot. I subscribe to Consumer Reports, and they really didn't like this model. It cleaned OK but left the carpet too damp. But the online reviews were all glowing. They didn't sound like Chinese people. I couldn't reconcile the difference, but I ordered it anyway. It was $120 or so, literally half the cost of other machines. Now I wish I'd gotten one CR rated higher. There are plenty of good machines; in fact there were more expensive Hoovers I might have ordered base on CR rankings. There's no household junk quite as annoying as a suboptimal carpet cleaning machine. Now I think there must have been a massive overstock somewhere. I guess I assumed that it would be OK, being Hoover. But I think I may just be naive about the reality of global manufacturing. Apparently this one was cheap to make, and matched Hoover's specs OK, but could it just be a crummy design that happened to be overstocked? Ordered through Amazon, but I'm never going to trust those reviews again. Amazon makes money whether I'm happy or not. I would order through them again but will mostly ignore reviews. Actually I don't really want to order from them either. Something about the whole operation is really turning me off. Sadly my dog is getting frail and I don't know how much longer I'm going to want a carpet cleaner at all. If you want to know why Amazon might have an interest in honest reviews rather than allowing fake positive reviews it’s because their reputation for honesty is also at stake. If you discover that they tolerate dishonesty from those who sell on their site, you might end up going to their competit.... oh, wait!
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

26th November 2019, 02:39 PM	#28
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 12,326	Originally Posted by mgidm86 One minute video game trailer...(ya it's dated now). This character was my avatar for awhile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title I admit it, I genuinely laughed at the human pachinko machine.
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

30th November 2019, 06:34 PM	#29
blutoski Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,836	Originally Posted by angrysoba If you want to know why Amazon might have an interest in honest reviews rather than allowing fake positive reviews it’s because their reputation for honesty is also at stake. If you discover that they tolerate dishonesty from those who sell on their site, you might end up going to their competit.... oh, wait! This is a good clarification. They prefer honest reviews, because if the customers can't identify good vs bad products on the platform, they will stop using it whether there's a competitor or not. Spending money on junk sucks. I experienced something this back in the 1980s when visiting East German relatives. They asked me to bring name brand items (eg Tylenol, VHS copies of popular films, music) because brand counterfeiting was so widespread over there nobody bought anything anymore. Poor intellectual property protection was spiralling the economy down to the bare minimum. Most purchases were most likely swindle, so don't bother. I had one experience on Amazon that did it for me: I bought an RCA brand record cleaner (the felt kind with a hollow handle to store the fluid in) from a well reviewed vendor, which turned out to be a ****** fake made from a shred of used corduroy pants.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett Last edited by blutoski; 30th November 2019 at 06:36 PM.

30th November 2019, 10:20 PM	#30
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets So you are protesting by giving a fake review? It's just as I suspected. All those bad reviews are from people who were pissed off for some reason unrelated to the product itself. My first ever purchase from Amazon turned up today. Hoping it works and they pay me to give a glowing review! Did you read the post I made right before yours?
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,912	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.