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Old 2nd December 2019, 06:04 PM   #121
Arcade22
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Yes, but in order to satisfy that desire, they need to die accomplishing something they find meaningful. Dying isn't enough by itself. For example, if they try to kill a bunch of kafir but fail to even injure anyone, then their death would be a failure, not a success.
Yes i thought that part was understood.

Quote:
No, actually, it isn't. Having their day in court gives them a chance to posture in front of the whole world, to show off their faith. It may be second best to martyrdom, but they'll still happily exploit the opportunity for publicity.
No, in the real world that's not what happens.

Most of the "Islamist terrorists" throughout Europe in recent years have been washed up and largely untalented career criminals that suddenly found religion. Driven by religious fervor yet still haunted by emotional baggage, they have found a new purpose in life that still manages to come up as unfulfilling. Ultimately, for one reason or another, "martyrdom" comes off as an increasingly appealing way to protest various perceived injustices in the society they live in and the broader world.

The fact that they feel a need to die as a necessary part of a successful terrorist attack is noteworthy and indicates that it's not just terrorism itself that motivates them. It's quite often an not-so-incidentally acceptable form of suicide, at least in their own religious extremist world-view.

These aren't hardened religious extremists that have been drilled to become warriors for their faith from childhood, it's petty criminal youths and young adults that have lived in social exclusion and quite often, while bored in prison, found what they were missing in their unfulfilling lives. That's why they don't actually use courts as a stage where they can propagate for their views: their whole worldview collapses when they are forced to come to terms with their actions.

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The guy wanted to kill lots of people. That's a lot more than suicide by cop.
It's just like when your very own American Average Joe goes on a shooting rampage just because he lost his job. Of course he can't just shoot himself to death. He has to go on a killing spree as revenge for all the "injustice" that society has subject him to. Maybe the cops have to shoot him to death just put an end to him, but the best result would be for them to take them alive.

The reason, as with suicide terrorism, is to make "going on a rampage" as less an appealing decision. Not having to face the consequences of their actions is a key part of the appeal, and thus it's desirable if they can be held to account.

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Not if it risks more casualties.
Well duh.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:48 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, those aren't the only alternatives. Longer prison sentences are also an option. This would still increase expenses, of course. But terrorism is mostly a young man's game. Hold them for a few decades, and they may age out of it.
Yep, sure. They will move from committing active physical attacks to radicalising others and supporting them. I don't have the official statistics, but from what I can see around myself: If one becomes brainwashed by this ideology, religion based especially, he rarely "ages out of it".
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:12 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
Yep, sure. They will move from committing active physical attacks to radicalising others and supporting them. I don't have the official statistics, but from what I can see around myself: If one becomes brainwashed by this ideology, religion based especially, he rarely "ages out of it".
This can be mitigated if you keep Islamic radicals separate, or at least imprison them solely among inmates who are serving life without parole anyway.

There's a minor problem, EU prohibits life without parole and demands a parole hearing after 30 years and every 5 years hence. Of course it only demands a hearing, so that could still be workable.

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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:59 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
What was notable, though, was how little effect this had on people's lives even a few hundred yards away.
...
If this sort of thing is supposed to disrupt the life of the city and make everyone live in fear, it seems to be doing a pretty crap job of it.
Sounds very similar to my experience back when I lived in London in the period just before the Good Friday Agreement. I've no idea if the mood now is the same, but back then there was very much an attitude of not allowing things to disrupt any more than necessary. I'm not sure this was all down to a overt decision, more a combination of a general social attitude, and also a certain level of ignorance - if it doesn't directly affect you, then just get on with things. Mostly all you had to know was which tube lines were affected. It was actually quite brutal.

To be honest I found it harder when I was no longer living in London, to hear - for instance - reports of the 7/7 attacks, and not know for a while if friends were safe.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 06:07 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
This can be mitigated if you keep Islamic radicals separate, or at least imprison them solely among inmates who are serving life without parole anyway.

There's a minor problem, EU prohibits life without parole and demands a parole hearing after 30 years and every 5 years hence. Of course it only demands a hearing, so that could still be workable.

McHrozni

Like Charlie Manson's applications for parole which legally had to be considered.

Which amounted to:

'We have to consider legally Manson's applications for parole. It has been considered. Denied".
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Old 4th December 2019, 04:39 AM   #126
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Mod WarningDerail on ISIS, Al Qaeda, Western Imperialism, etc. split to here.

Please keep to the topic of the recent London Bridge incident and closely related issues.
Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 5th December 2019, 04:30 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Why? I am retired police and I wondered why the police did not arrest. I had to do a bit of research to find out what the reasoning was. I did not know about Operation Kratos. Did you?

What is really sad is that yesterday twitter was full of police officers tweeting sarcastic and abusive comments and joining in with the trolling of those who did ask why the police did not arrest. I could not find a single police account that answered the question.

It is not an unreasonable question to ask, why did the police not formally arrest someone who citizens had already arrested?

I think it is very sad (and it certainly does the police no favours) to pour scorn on those who ask.
As a retired police officer in Canada I have experience in being a part of, then commanding, and then training Emergency Response Teams (ERT).
Calling a police officer "lazy" who has just gone into close quarters with a person who has an explosive device who - as you yourself stated - could be just waiting for police officers to arrive to detonate his explosive vest is anything but lazy and is a direct insult. That is what I was hoping was a joke because the alternative would be just too outrageous for words.

What you are calling "Operation Kratos" is pretty much SOP in the world when dealing with terrorists who are thought, or seen, or are claiming to have, explosive devices. Most places don't have fancy names for it but if giving something a fancy name makes you think you have created something special that's your issue to deal with - not mine.
As far as asking questions - I would have thought that the 2005 killing of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes would have cleared up any confusion over the fact that headshots are the accepted SOP in Britain no matter how much the public whines. It was an egregious error in that an innocent man was killed - but the leadership stood behind the policy of headshots for suspected terrorists with bombs.

I think it is very sad and does the questioner no favours when they scorn brave and dedicated people who knowingly put their own lives in danger in order to protect the public under incredibly dangerous circumstances.
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Old 5th December 2019, 06:48 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I think it is very sad and does the questioner no favours when they scorn brave and dedicated people who knowingly put their own lives in danger in order to protect the public under incredibly dangerous circumstances.
Okay, lazy may not have been the right word to use but i couldn't come up with a better term to describe someone who willingly comes close to someone who (supposedly) has a bomb on them that could explode at any point and potentially kill or seriously injure them. I mean i am assuming at this point that they knew he had what looked like a bomb vest on him when they went after him. The bomb could explode at any time, since the fuse could have been lit or the triggering mechanism activated but with an intentional or unintentional delayed effect, yet shooting him is apparently treated as if it would prevent that from occurring.

If they were really brave, instead of pulling away the civilians who were on top of him and then shooting the assailant, they should've just piled on-top of him, since their lives were already potentially forfeit no matter what they did after they approached a presumed suicide bomber. Again, if they had wanted to kill as many people as possible with their bomb they would've presumably already done so during this lecture where they first attacked people with knives. The fact that the bomb had not detonated would suggest it was fake, that it was faulty or was delayed.
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Old 5th December 2019, 07:13 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
........................................
If they were really brave, instead of pulling away the civilians who were on top of him and then shooting the assailant, they should've just piled on-top of him,.........................................
Oh dear...The definition of "bravery" is being pushed further and further .
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Old 5th December 2019, 07:18 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
Oh dear...The definition of "bravery" is being pushed further and further .
I really don't get it. Bravery for its own sake has no purpose. It's only admirable to take risks if it's for the sake of something worth that risk, taking a risk just to take it is stupid.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:21 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
Oh dear...The definition of "bravery" is being pushed further and further .
ACAB I guess?
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Old 6th December 2019, 05:48 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
ACAB I guess?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/doilum/14016200035

Personally I've always thought that All Cats Are Beautiful...

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Old 6th December 2019, 06:20 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Okay, lazy may not have been the right word to use but i couldn't come up with a better term to describe someone who willingly comes close to someone who (supposedly) has a bomb on them that could explode at any point and potentially kill or seriously injure them. I mean i am assuming at this point that they knew he had what looked like a bomb vest on him when they went after him. The bomb could explode at any time, since the fuse could have been lit or the triggering mechanism activated but with an intentional or unintentional delayed effect, yet shooting him is apparently treated as if it would prevent that from occurring.

If they were really brave, instead of pulling away the civilians who were on top of him and then shooting the assailant, they should've just piled on-top of him, since their lives were already potentially forfeit no matter what they did after they approached a presumed suicide bomber. Again, if they had wanted to kill as many people as possible with their bomb they would've presumably already done so during this lecture where they first attacked people with knives. The fact that the bomb had not detonated would suggest it was fake, that it was faulty or was delayed.
I think that it could have been either faulty, fake or delayed is sufficient reason to shoot. You would need to know 100% that it is a fake and it cannot explode under any circumstance before an arrest should be made.

I cannot think of a single circumstance where it could be reasonably established that a vest is 100% fake, during an ongoing attack.

Even a case where the attack stops and the attacker claims the vest is fake (so as to potentially avoid being shot) could be a trap.

There could be a dead man's trigger. The vest could also be timed to go off, so it explodes at a certain time, whether or not the attack has ended or the attacker is dead.

I do not see how that can be accounted for and so the police who go in close to shoot are being incredibly brave.
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Old 6th December 2019, 07:22 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Okay, lazy may not have been the right word to use but i couldn't come up with a better term to describe someone who willingly comes close to someone who (supposedly) has a bomb on them that could explode at any point and potentially kill or seriously injure them. I mean i am assuming at this point that they knew he had what looked like a bomb vest on him when they went after him. The bomb could explode at any time, since the fuse could have been lit or the triggering mechanism activated but with an intentional or unintentional delayed effect, yet shooting him is apparently treated as if it would prevent that from occurring.

If they were really brave, instead of pulling away the civilians who were on top of him and then shooting the assailant, they should've just piled on-top of him, since their lives were already potentially forfeit no matter what they did after they approached a presumed suicide bomber. Again, if they had wanted to kill as many people as possible with their bomb they would've presumably already done so during this lecture where they first attacked people with knives. The fact that the bomb had not detonated would suggest it was fake, that it was faulty or was delayed.
Police aren't trained to 'pile on top' of people. Whilst membes o the pubic might do this using their gut reflexes and initiative, police are trained in a set reaction. This is something they will have rehearsed many times in training sessions.
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Old 6th December 2019, 07:23 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
ACAB I guess?
Only if you'e a villain.
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Old 6th December 2019, 10:24 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Okay, lazy may not have been the right word to use but i couldn't come up with a better term to describe someone who willingly comes close to someone who (supposedly) has a bomb on them that could explode at any point and potentially kill or seriously injure them. I mean i am assuming at this point that they knew he had what looked like a bomb vest on him when they went after him. The bomb could explode at any time, since the fuse could have been lit or the triggering mechanism activated but with an intentional or unintentional delayed effect, yet shooting him is apparently treated as if it would prevent that from occurring.

If they were really brave, instead of pulling away the civilians who were on top of him and then shooting the assailant, they should've just piled on-top of him, since their lives were already potentially forfeit no matter what they did after they approached a presumed suicide bomber. Again, if they had wanted to kill as many people as possible with their bomb they would've presumably already done so during this lecture where they first attacked people with knives.
As already mentioned, they often target the police or other security services, so wait until they arrive.
Quote:
The fact that the bomb had not detonated would suggest it was fake, that it was faulty or was delayed.
Those are possibilities, but there are others, such as the terrorist is waiting for a better moment, or is having second thoughts. In the latter case, maybe they could be apprehended alive, but I can understand why the police tactics don't allow for this, once a suicide vest is apparent.
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Old 7th December 2019, 04:37 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Okay, lazy may not have been the right word to use but i couldn't come up with a better term to describe someone who willingly comes close to someone who (supposedly) has a bomb on them that could explode at any point and potentially kill or seriously injure them. I mean i am assuming at this point that they knew he had what looked like a bomb vest on him when they went after him. The bomb could explode at any time, since the fuse could have been lit or the triggering mechanism activated but with an intentional or unintentional delayed effect, yet shooting him is apparently treated as if it would prevent that from occurring.

If they were really brave, instead of pulling away the civilians who were on top of him and then shooting the assailant, they should've just piled on-top of him, since their lives were already potentially forfeit no matter what they did after they approached a presumed suicide bomber. Again, if they had wanted to kill as many people as possible with their bomb they would've presumably already done so during this lecture where they first attacked people with knives. The fact that the bomb had not detonated would suggest it was fake, that it was faulty or was delayed.
So you weren't joking in your previous post.
Are you joking in this post?
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Old 7th December 2019, 07:28 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
So you weren't joking in your previous post.
Are you joking in this post?
It's a pertinent question to ask as it is not within the police's remit to mete out justice.

We can then look at the circumstances and the chronology. Most people cannot see the police had any alternative here, unlike in the Charles de Mendez case.

In any case, it will automatically go to the IPCC, as all deaths caused by the police or in police custody do.
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Old 7th December 2019, 01:10 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's a pertinent question to ask as it is not within the police's remit to mete out justice.

We can then look at the circumstances and the chronology. Most people cannot see the police had any alternative here, unlike in the Charles de Mendez case.

In any case, it will automatically go to the IPCC, as all deaths caused by the police or in police custody do.
The police were not meting out justice. That is called vigilantism. Using fatal force in order to stop the detonation of a bomb designed to kill and/or main people is not vigilantism.

If they were acting as vigilantes - as you purport - then you would have to have evidence that the thoughts going through the police officer's minds before they pulled the trigger was: "I have decided that this person needs to be punished for this crime and I will shoot them in the head as punishment."
Please provide your evidence.
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Old 7th December 2019, 01:13 PM   #140
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And stop calling him "Mendez".
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Old 7th December 2019, 01:21 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's a pertinent question to ask as it is not within the police's remit to mete out justice.

We can then look at the circumstances and the chronology. Most people cannot see the police had any alternative here, unlike in the Charles de Mendez case.
Jean Charles de Menezes.
Quote:
In any case, it will automatically go to the IPCC, as all deaths caused by the police or in police custody do.
IOPC.
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Old 9th December 2019, 09:48 AM   #142
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They should have arrested him and taken the keys and locked him up. Locked him up. Locked him up. They should have arrested him and taken the keys and locked him up. My fair lady.
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Old 9th December 2019, 09:57 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
And stop calling him "Mendez".

How rude.
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Old 9th December 2019, 09:59 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
The police were not meting out justice. That is called vigilantism. Using fatal force in order to stop the detonation of a bomb designed to kill and/or main people is not vigilantism.

If they were acting as vigilantes - as you purport - then you would have to have evidence that the thoughts going through the police officer's minds before they pulled the trigger was: "I have decided that this person needs to be punished for this crime and I will shoot them in the head as punishment."
Please provide your evidence.
I did not say they were. I was responding to posters criticising Arcade22 for posing the question, should he have been arrested instead.

It's a valid question to ask. It doesn't mean I do not agree with the police's actions.
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:17 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
DNI has 21% as definitely rejoining the fight and another 14% suspected.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170801...17-Release.pdf

The report was done just before Trump was inaugurated so it was compiled under Obama. A significant portion of detainees released from GTMO rejoined the ranks, that much is clear.

McHrozni
Good. We tortured them after kidnapping them.

They are soldiers captured and tortured by their enemies. I hope they lose, but the US is exactly as despicable as the Islamic State.
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:21 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I hope they lose, but the US is exactly as despicable as the Islamic State.
If we're exactly as despicable as them, then why do you want them to lose? That doesn't actually make any sense.

Unless the claim that we're just as despicable is stupid hyperbole. Which I hope it is, because otherwise your moral compass is so out of whack that I don't know how you can function in society.
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Old 9th December 2019, 10:26 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How rude.
Calling someone by the wrong name? Yes, it is.
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Old 9th December 2019, 12:48 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Calling someone by the wrong name? Yes, it is.
I see. You think it's OK to bully someone over a spelling mistake? Easy target I guess.
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Old 9th December 2019, 01:13 PM   #149
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I suspect law enforcement officers are told to capture terrorist suspects alive for the information that they might be able to provide, if it can be done without risking innocent lives.
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Old 9th December 2019, 01:26 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How rude.
Yes, it is - that's why I asked you not to do it any more. I'm glad that you are taking my advice.
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Old 9th December 2019, 02:34 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Yes, it is - that's why I asked you not to do it any more. I'm glad that you are taking my advice.
Judging by what I can see in the quotes you're clearly correct and in the right, so we'll start the countdown to this being acknowledged.

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Old 9th December 2019, 06:55 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's a pertinent question to ask as it is not within the police's remit to mete out justice.

We can then look at the circumstances and the chronology. Most people cannot see the police had any alternative here, unlike in the Charles de Mendez case.

In any case, it will automatically go to the IPCC, as all deaths caused by the police or in police custody do.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I did not say they were. I was responding to posters criticising Arcade22 for posing the question, should he have been arrested instead.

It's a valid question to ask. It doesn't mean I do not agree with the police's actions.

Whether you or Arcade22 made the accusation the fact still stands: They were not meting out justice. Therefore, the question is certainly not valid no matter who is making the incredibly uninformed and ludicrous insinuation.
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Old 9th December 2019, 11:27 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Good.
It's good that Gitmo detainees returned to combat after release? Please elaborate.

Quote:
They are soldiers captured and tortured by their enemies.
Geneva convention makes a clear distinction between a lawul and unlawful combatant. One of the provisions to be a lawful combatant is:
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

I'll just go ahead and call this a stupid hyperbole, ok? ISIS vermin and their ilk are as much soldiers as I am the Protestant Pope.

Quote:
I hope they lose, but the US is exactly as despicable as the Islamic State.
What Ziggurat said.

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Old 10th December 2019, 02:33 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Yes, it is - that's why I asked you not to do it any more. I'm glad that you are taking my advice.
How awfully kind of you to track my messages. I am so honoured to have this privilege not afforded to others.

Do let me know if you spot any more spelling mistakes, names not being my strongest point.

Gosh, I am so lucky to have my own personal monitor.
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Old 10th December 2019, 02:37 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Whether you or Arcade22 made the accusation the fact still stands: They were not meting out justice. Therefore, the question is certainly not valid no matter who is making the incredibly uninformed and ludicrous insinuation.
Yes, but the perception could have been that 'hey, this is a disgusting vile murderer scum who cares if the police take him out?'

As that is not the police's function, it is quite valid for Arcade22 to ask the question, could he have been arrested instead? As that is what the independent police commission will also be addressing then it is obviously not a incredibly uninformed and ludicrous insinuation.
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Old 10th December 2019, 02:39 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Judging by what I can see in the quotes you're clearly correct and in the right, so we'll start the countdown to this being acknowledged.

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Old 10th December 2019, 03:32 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Geneva convention makes a clear distinction between a lawul and unlawful combatant. One of the provisions to be a lawful combatant is:
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
The Geneva Convention also states that they have to be treated as prisoners of war until their status can be properly determined. Only two statuses are recognised: combatants or civilians. There is no middle category where one party to the conflict can arbitrarily deprive a person of their rights as either a PoW or a civilian.
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Old 10th December 2019, 03:50 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
The Geneva Convention also states that they have to be treated as prisoners of war until their status can be properly determined.
The tribunal is only necessary if there is any doubt whether they should qualify as POW or not. In the case of ISIS there is absolutely no doubt they were a part of a volunteer corps that pissed on rules of war and as such are not entitled to PoW status. This is only a question in the (incredibly) rare instance of an ISIS detainee who would claim was in service of Syrian military as an infilitrator or something of that nature. That person should recieve a PoW status or else be sent back to Syria or something of that nature.

Quote:
Only two statuses are recognised: combatants or civilians. There is no middle category where one party to the conflict can arbitrarily deprive a person of their rights as either a PoW or a civilian.
No. These are the only two groups who recieve special protection, the "other" is not mentioned because the Geneva convention does not give them special status. The convention prohibits executions, torture, humiliation and forces you to keep any captives alive, but that's all it does for people who are neither civilians nor PoWs. Civilians, as in those uninvolved in the fighting, and POWs (who have to fall into one of many specific categories) are offered additional protection. Members of ISIS do not fall into a specific protected category, even though they are involved in the actual fighting. As such they are not entitled to PoW status and neither are they civilians, the unofficial name is unlawful combatant.

There are other exceptions to the rule, mercenaries are the big one. Mercenaries are not entitled to PoW status, although it is permissable to treat them as such. If you capture foreign mercenaries and decide not to give them PoW status they are neither PoWs nor civilians - you can't torture or otherwise mistreat them, but you are allowed to detain them under conditions far inferior to those offered to your troops at least until the conflict ends without violating international law.

ISIS works the same way. They're unlawful combatants and recieve only the most basic protections of a human being. So long as you keep them alive and don't actively ruin their health you can detain them as you please, for as long as you please. PoWs are entitled to the same rations, housing and medical service as your troops, contact with families, packages from home and a host of other things. They are to be released the moment hostilities cease. By contrast unlawful combatants have to be kept alive and cannot be tortured, that's pretty much it.

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Old 10th December 2019, 04:29 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
The tribunal is only necessary if there is any doubt whether they should qualify as POW or not. In the case of ISIS there is absolutely no doubt they were a part of a volunteer corps that pissed on rules of war and as such are not entitled to PoW status.
If they are noy PoWs, then they are civilians who should be dealt with as criminals.

Quote:
No. These are the only two groups who recieve special protection, the "other" is not mentioned because the Geneva convention does not give them special status.
You are wrong. There is no "other" status, only one of the two. If they are not lawful combatants, they are civilians and therefore criminals, and should be treated as such. There is no "loophole" in the GC, despite what America likes to pretend.
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Old 10th December 2019, 05:28 AM   #160
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
If they are noy PoWs, then they are civilians who should be dealt with as criminals.

You are wrong. There is no "other" status, only one of the two. If they are not lawful combatants, they are civilians and therefore criminals, and should be treated as such. There is no "loophole" in the GC, despite what America likes to pretend.
This is not different to what I said. Geneva convention stipulates the treatment of PoWs, who deserves the PoW status and gives the minimum standard to the rest (keep them alive and don't deliberately harm them).

Unlawful combatant is the civilian (according to you) who actively participates in the conflict in a way not covered by the Convention (i.e. a civilian contractor for the armed force). A member of a volunteer militia that pisses on customs and laws of warfare certainly qualifies, the Convention explicitly discounts those from people entitled to PoW status. The only thing international law demands of you is to keep them alive and not torture them, that's it.

National law may provide other limitations, which is the cynical reason as to why Guantanamo bay is used to house them. US Constitution does not apply in Cuba and Guantanamo bay is Cuban soil. Yes, of course you can argue this is bollocks and you'd be right too, but what do you do then? There is no provision in US law for foreign unlawful combatants and you clearly can't let these people go the moment you catch them. You don't want to execute them either, lawfully other otherwise.

Treatment of former members of ISIS exposed a blind spot in international law that should be covered. That does not mean these people deserve the status of a PoW and they can't stand a criminal trial either - there is no competent authority where they could stand trial. That doesn't mean they should be let go, it means the international law is deficient and faulty in the edge case of a failed state.

The correct response to such a problem is to establish international law that would cover those cases. The incorrect response is to apply a law at random, even when that law explicitly excludes their circumstance. You wouldn't apply UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, article 105 (it deals with captured pirates) would you? I mean, it requires you to sieze an aircraft or a ship, so that's obviously faulty. So why do you think the Geneva convention would apply? It just as explicitly excludes militias such as ISIS, after all.

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