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Old 1st December 2019, 11:31 AM   #41
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The Brothers of Charity, an international Catholic service order, at the group home where my brother lives have been waiting nearly a year for a Brother who was assigned to a stay at the home. That's the delay from the normally expected time for the visa to be issued. It might be significant to note the newly assigned Brother is African.

(Yes, this is about my brother's brother Brother, but if I say that you'll think I made the whole story up just to make that joke. I didn't.)
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Old 1st December 2019, 12:08 PM   #42
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I can say, as someone with family in Australia and an ex who came to live here for a time that it is difficult for Australians to get a green card (unless they meet work/education requirements and are lucky to be chosen in the diversity visa lottery of 1000 per year). They all happen to be very white. My cousin spent 2 years at University here in Nebraska. That didn't help him at all. My cousins girlfriend came out on a tourist visa and tried to switch to a student one. Nope! Go back and try again!!

I wondered if it is still that way (a few years later now) and found a story of an Australian woman, legally working in Colorado, who lost her work sponsor of many years and opened her own business. She was given 'intent to deny' renewal of her visa and had to go back after waiting and waiting. She had given all the info they requested at that point and it would cost too much to fight it ($20k or so).

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Colorado Springs immigration attorney Jeff Joseph said he’s seeing the effects of the increased scrutiny, with clients who have been approved for visas multiple times getting denied as well as longer wait times because cases are so backlogged.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 1st December 2019 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 1st December 2019, 12:16 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
I'm not taking a position on whether Trump is racist or not, but most of those "examples" were pretty tenuous and not proof of racism, and the website is obviously pushing an agenda of its own so is hardly an objective source.
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Far out

If you want to show a point, that site is the worst way to do it.
So no actual response? No contradictory evidence? Just wallpaper words.
How pathetic.
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Old 1st December 2019, 02:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
I'm not taking a position on whether Trump is racist or not, but most of those "examples" were pretty tenuous and not proof of racism, and the website is obviously pushing an agenda of its own so is hardly an objective source.
"Very Fine People".
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Old 3rd December 2019, 04:00 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
I'm not taking a position on whether Trump is racist or not, but most of those "examples" were pretty tenuous and not proof of racism, and the website is obviously pushing an agenda of its own so is hardly an objective source.
Did you think any of the examples were legitimate?
Do all 200 examples have to be legitimate in order to maybe move you to the position of deciding about whether you think trump is racist or not?

I'll say that the subject header is hyperbolic and that on the face of it this case doesn't appear to be much more than a late application for a permanent visa. This may not be a good example of the racism inherent in the trump administration.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 10:52 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump can't be called a Racist unless he is walking around publicly in Klan-robes, we understand.
Even then, he might just be dressing up as a ghost! Why do you hate America?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 11:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
OP, here's an anecdote about a priest having trouble with immigration, it must be because ICE is racist because the priest is black.
A chorus of aggreement.
A few folks asking, so how do we know?
Answer, because trump is a racist and ICE is bad.

Why not look for actual evidence instead of assertion and anecdote. Meh, why, this isn't a forum of skeptics or anything.
If you ask me, I don't just take issue with them denying him. As has been pointed out, there is a method to follow. The part that sucks is they just don't have anything to say to him at all. That's the worst part and I think anyone can agree with that. Being in a state of limbo, knowing your time is coming, and you can't get any guidance while several people are trying to help is just a straight up ******* thing to do.

So personally, it sucks what's happening to someone that seems to be a good individual.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 11:58 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
If you ask me, I don't just take issue with them denying him. As has been pointed out, there is a method to follow. The part that sucks is they just don't have anything to say to him at all. That's the worst part and I think anyone can agree with that. Being in a state of limbo, knowing your time is coming, and you can't get any guidance while several people are trying to help is just a straight up ******* thing to do.

So personally, it sucks what's happening to someone that seems to be a good individual.
I don't disagree, I just dislike the framing of the issue in this thread.
Its entirely possible that this sort of thing is pretty common place for clergy of all faiths and ethnicities and its entirely possible its been that way for 150 years or 70 years or 30 years. We don't know but the op seems to.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:57 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I don't disagree, I just dislike the framing of the issue in this thread.
Its entirely possible that this sort of thing is pretty common place for clergy of all faiths and ethnicities and its entirely possible its been that way for 150 years or 70 years or 30 years. We don't know but the op seems to.
Not at all. Catholics have been having trouble recruiting western priests for a while and so they have to move priests from countries that meet demand like day Ghana to countries that don't like the US. Other religions either meet demand locally better or just lack the international organization to import clergy from other countries.

This really is a uniquely catholic issue.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 03:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not at all. Catholics have been having trouble recruiting western priests for a while and so they have to move priests from countries that meet demand like day Ghana to countries that don't like the US. Other religions either meet demand locally better or just lack the international organization to import clergy from other countries.

This really is a uniquely catholic issue.
Kind of missed the point there but sure, its primarily a Catholic issue. Still, the story is only evidence of one priest having an issue it shows no larger pattern than that, so why is most of the discussion regarding Trump's racism?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 03:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
why is most of the discussion regarding Trump's racism?
That's a rhetorical question, right?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 03:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's a rhetorical question, right?
Yes.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 11:05 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Yes.
Mine was too.
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Old 4th December 2019, 12:42 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Because Trump and the subhuman goods he's installed at DHS are a bunch of filthy bigots.
While I understand the frustration with this farce of a president and an administration, I think that throwing around words like "subhuman" is counterproductive.
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Old 4th December 2019, 12:53 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
While I understand the frustration with this farce of a president and an administration, I think that throwing around words like "subhuman" is counterproductive.
That depends on what you are trying to produce. It’s possible Craig4 is being totally productive for his goals.
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Old 4th December 2019, 10:40 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
While I understand the frustration with this farce of a president and an administration, I think that throwing around words like "subhuman" is counterproductive.
I agree. Although "inhuman" would be not far off the mark.
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Old 4th December 2019, 11:22 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I agree. Although "inhuman" would be not far off the mark.
Isn't dehumanizing people a bad thing?
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Old 4th December 2019, 11:25 AM   #58
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Trump supporters are humans, too.

Plenty of right-wing religious nuts are convinced that Schiff, Pelosi and others are Demons in human form, though.
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Old 4th December 2019, 11:36 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump supporters are humans, too.

Plenty of right-wing religious nuts are convinced that Schiff, Pelosi and others are Demons in human form, though.
They also thought that of Obama, when he wasn't actually the anti-christ.
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Old 4th December 2019, 11:23 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
While I understand the frustration with this farce of a president and an administration, I think that throwing around words like "subhuman" is counterproductive.
If you can think of a better way to dehumanize a group of people, I'd be delighted to hear it. I want Trump supporters to be the hated other.
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Old 5th December 2019, 12:38 AM   #61
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Trump supporters are clearly unpatriotic and undemocratic.
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Old 5th December 2019, 04:52 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If you can think of a better way to dehumanize a group of people, I'd be delighted to hear it. I want Trump supporters to be the hated other.
Why? You think that will cure them of supporting Trump or only make them dig in deeper?
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Old 5th December 2019, 06:35 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Why? You think that will cure them of supporting Trump or only make them dig in deeper?
As individuals, I don't particularly care what they do. However, as a group, Trump voters are a critical enemy Center of Gravity, (CoG). Excited voters talk to other voters. In turn, they influence people around them to vote a certain way. If you make Trump voters afraid of telling people they are Trump voters or you make them afraid of the loss of their social or family associations, you limit the ability of the enemy to get more voters. If a shut-in for instance would risk disassociation from his family coming to see him/her and take care of him/her, that shut-in would be less likely to talk to other voters about Trump. Trump voters skew older so this is a vulnerable enemy center of gravity. Older people want the generations they will leave behind around them. If you condition that with explicit or implied support for someone besides Trump, America wins.

If a Trump voter was afraid they would be shunned by a family group or social associations over their support for Trump, they would be less likely to advocate that their circle of association vote for Trump.

Real Trump supporters are a lost cause. However, if you can make vulnerable Trump supporters keep their mouths shut about political leanings due to fear of family or social ostracization, you prevent the enemy from securing more votes.

Also, no one wants to be the hated other. If you make the cost of Trump support so high, people won't do it.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
As individuals, I don't particularly care what they do. However, as a group, Trump voters are a critical enemy Center of Gravity, (CoG). Excited voters talk to other voters. In turn, they influence people around them to vote a certain way. If you make Trump voters afraid of telling people they are Trump voters or you make them afraid of the loss of their social or family associations, you limit the ability of the enemy to get more voters. If a shut-in for instance would risk disassociation from his family coming to see him/her and take care of him/her, that shut-in would be less likely to talk to other voters about Trump. Trump voters skew older so this is a vulnerable enemy center of gravity. Older people want the generations they will leave behind around them. If you condition that with explicit or implied support for someone besides Trump, America wins.

If a Trump voter was afraid they would be shunned by a family group or social associations over their support for Trump, they would be less likely to advocate that their circle of association vote for Trump.

Real Trump supporters are a lost cause. However, if you can make vulnerable Trump supporters keep their mouths shut about political leanings due to fear of family or social ostracization, you prevent the enemy from securing more votes.

Also, no one wants to be the hated other. If you make the cost of Trump support so high, people won't do it.
This is delusional. He won the presidency and is very likely to win it again, it's not exactly an unpopular thing to be a Trump supporter.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:56 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
However, if you can make vulnerable Trump supporters keep their mouths shut about political leanings due to fear of family or social ostracization, you prevent the enemy from securing more votes.
You already tried that in 2016. It failed.

Quote:
Also, no one wants to be the hated other. If you make the cost of Trump support so high, people won't do it.
It would be foolish to believe your hatred will end once Trump leaves office. And while you might be able to raise the cost of voicing support for Trump in certain places, you can't raise the cost of actually voting for Trump. You haven't created the incentive structure you think you have.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Why?
The simplest explanation is simply that he hates them. There's no real point in looking for anything deeper.
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Old 6th December 2019, 01:50 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
This is delusional. He won the presidency and is very likely to win it again, it's not exactly an unpopular thing to be a Trump supporter.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ters-speak-out

The secret Trump supporter is a well documented thing. The more secret we keep their kind, the better off the nation is.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ters-speak-out
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Old 6th December 2019, 02:11 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You already tried that in 2016. It failed.



It would be foolish to believe your hatred will end once Trump leaves office. And while you might be able to raise the cost of voicing support for Trump in certain places, you can't raise the cost of actually voting for Trump. You haven't created the incentive structure you think you have.
That's probably true. I'll likely never look at an unrepentant Trump supporter as fully human or deserving of basic dignity or civility. However, I have no illusions about my level of influence here. If I can shame or embarrass the few Trump supporters I interact with into silence then I'm happy. I know there's nothing I can do about how a traitor votes once they are in the booth.
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Old 6th December 2019, 03:21 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
That's probably true. I'll likely never look at an unrepentant Trump supporter as fully human or deserving of basic dignity or civility. However, I have no illusions about my level of influence here. If I can shame or embarrass the few Trump supporters I interact with into silence then I'm happy. I know there's nothing I can do about how a traitor votes once they are in the booth.
I have no dog in the fight but I find this attitude bizarre.
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Old 6th December 2019, 03:54 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I have no dog in the fight but I find this attitude bizarre.
It's not actually bizarre. It's primal. It's base tribalism, the kind of thing that successful liberal societies try to teach people to move beyond. But not everyone can move beyond it. And when that attitude becomes sufficiently common, society fractures. It's a very dangerous attitude, but historically speaking it is perhaps closer to the norm than civility and tolerance.
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Old 6th December 2019, 02:09 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's not actually bizarre. It's primal. It's base tribalism, the kind of thing that successful liberal societies try to teach people to move beyond. But not everyone can move beyond it. And when that attitude becomes sufficiently common, society fractures. It's a very dangerous attitude, but historically speaking it is perhaps closer to the norm than civility and tolerance.
I accept the notion that we are in a civil cold war. I want the American side to win.
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Old 7th December 2019, 02:59 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
I can say, as someone with family in Australia and an ex who came to live here for a time that it is difficult for Australians to get a green card (unless they meet work/education requirements and are lucky to be chosen in the diversity visa lottery of 1000 per year). They all happen to be very white. My cousin spent 2 years at University here in Nebraska. That didn't help him at all. My cousins girlfriend came out on a tourist visa and tried to switch to a student one. Nope! Go back and try again!!

I wondered if it is still that way (a few years later now) and found a story of an Australian woman, legally working in Colorado, who lost her work sponsor of many years and opened her own business. She was given 'intent to deny' renewal of her visa and had to go back after waiting and waiting. She had given all the info they requested at that point and it would cost too much to fight it ($20k or so).
The same sort of thing is happening in the UK - going after the low-hanging fruit who are easy to find.
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Old 7th December 2019, 05:16 PM   #73
Trebuchet
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Followup article in The Leader.

I did find this part interesting.
Quote:
“As a result of our broken rules, the annual green card flow is mostly low-wage and low-skilled,” the president said. “Only 12 percent of legal immigrants are selected based on skill or based on merit. In countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand — and others — that number is closer to 60 and even 70 and 75 percent, in some cases.”

Trump declared in May he would rewrite the rules to emphasize merit and skill over other factors. “You will get more points for being a younger worker, meaning you will contribute more to our social safety net. You will get more points for having a valuable skill, an offer of employment, an advanced education or a plan to create jobs.”
He's not lying about Canada. Even before he got elected, I was looking into what it would take to move there. They don't want you unless you plan to work.
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