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Old 9th September 2017, 01:18 PM   #41
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
You know it's bad when even the commissioners say the 9/11 Commission was BS.
Dear me, you've swallowed everything you've been spoon-fed, haven't you? I could probably write your next dozen posts for you, based on the total lack of either discernment or originality you've shown so far.

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Old 9th September 2017, 01:52 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Cool story:

"What we could not have anticipated were the remarkable people and circumstances that would coalesce within and around the 9/11 Commission over the coming twenty months to enable our success."

actual source
Yes, this.
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Old 9th September 2017, 02:16 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Cool story:

"What we could not have anticipated were the remarkable people and circumstances that would coalesce within and around the 9/11 Commission over the coming twenty months to enable our success."

actual source
I'm sure MicahJava will be back to retract his statement after discovering this new information. Certainly no seeker of truth would continue to present false information.
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Old 9th September 2017, 02:36 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Cool story:

"What we could not have anticipated were the remarkable people and circumstances that would coalesce within and around the 9/11 Commission over the coming twenty months to enable our success."

actual source
Oh my God, FREAKIN hilarious. That whole book is about the difficulty in managing the 9/11 Commission. How hard did you have to work to scrape together that bit of quote mining?
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Old 9th September 2017, 02:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Oh my God, FREAKIN hilarious. That whole book is about the difficulty in managing the 9/11 Commission. How hard did you have to work to scrape together that bit of quote mining?
Finest example of irony one will ever see.

That being said, finding that quote was so easy even a 911 truther could do it, you see, it is in the same damn paragraph as the designed to fail line!

You read the entire paragraph right? I mean you are not relying on anonymous bloggers on the internet right?

Yeah they sold a whole book about how difficult to manage it was, and how they pulled themselves up, overcame the obstacles and succeeded! Typical America success story!
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Old 9th September 2017, 04:01 PM   #46
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This is more in line with what the commissioners actually said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...33J_story.html
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Old 9th September 2017, 04:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
This is more in line with what the commissioners actually said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...33J_story.html
Some truthers think that the designed to fail line is an effective claim, until you scrape fingernail depth into it, and it turns out it is an absolute softball for the debunkers.
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Old 9th September 2017, 05:42 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Finest example of irony one will ever see.

That being said, finding that quote was so easy even a 911 truther could do it, you see, it is in the same damn paragraph as the designed to fail line!

You read the entire paragraph right? I mean you are not relying on anonymous bloggers on the internet right?

Yeah they sold a whole book about how difficult to manage it was, and how they pulled themselves up, overcame the obstacles and succeeded! Typical America success story!
Is it wrong that I read your comment in a Russian accent?
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Old 9th September 2017, 05:50 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Is it wrong that I read your comment in a Russian accent?
Hell, sport, read it in any accent you want, just long as you read it.

What accent did you use to read the actual book? J/k I know you didn't read it.

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Old 9th September 2017, 10:39 PM   #50
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"Pull it", I believe, will fade with time.

As demonstrated, "Set up to fail" has a way of gripping the CT imagination.
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Old 9th September 2017, 11:12 PM   #51
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Edited by Agatha:  edited to remove response to moderated post
.

With reference to the 9/11 attacks, we know who committed them and how, and we've also got a pretty good idea of how and why the buildings collapsed.

What you seem to be proposing is another, presumably lengthy and costly, investigation, to discover some scraps of truth you will also reject, if they contradict a theory you refuse to spell out.

What would be the point? What do you expect them to discover, and will you accept their findings if the additional scraps also contradict your secret theory?
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Old 9th September 2017, 11:43 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove response to moderated post


With reference to the 9/11 attacks, we know who committed them and how, and we've also got a pretty good idea of how and why the buildings collapsed.

What you seem to be proposing is another, presumably lengthy and costly, investigation, to discover some scraps of truth you will also reject, if they contradict a theory you refuse to spell out.

What would be the point? What do you expect them to discover, and will you accept their findings if the additional scraps also contradict your secret theory?
Actually, MicahJava, that was a little bit sneaky, and you nearly got me with it.
What you originally said was that you didn't trust the investigations. That is not the same as believing that every scrap of truth was entered into the reports.
It is my firm belief that enough evidence was presented in both the NIST and 9/11 Commission reports to conclude beyond any reasonable doubt that Al Qaeda carried out the attacks, and that no CD was involved in the collapse of the buildings. Does that mean I think that 'every scrap of truth' was included? I can't say for sure, but probably not. Do I think that these scraps would alter in any meaningful way their conclusions? Of course not. That would completely invalidate the reports, and such a thing could not be kept secret for any length of time.
Is it your contention that there are scraps of truth that could be uncovered by a new investigation that would alter in any meanngful way the conclusions of the exisitng investigations? If so, do you have any evidence to support this belief?
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Old 10th September 2017, 06:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Is it wrong that I read your comment in a Russian accent?
Do you mean to indicate you've learned to read all of the material instead of taking comments out of context?
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Old 10th September 2017, 06:45 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Oh my God, FREAKIN hilarious. That whole book is about the difficulty in managing the 9/11 Commission. How hard did you have to work to scrape together that bit of quote mining?
You think someone else is freakin' hilarious, when you post a carefully truncated piece of a quote, then, when someone posts the remainder of the quote to put it in context, you accuse him of quote mining?

Of course, what's really pathetic here is that your quote mines aren't even vaguely close to original; they're on page 1 of the standard truther playbook. I think the next step is the "hijackers are still alive," right? Or is it quote mining the PNAC or coke snorting hijackers? We know all the moves, just not the order recommended.

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Old 10th September 2017, 08:24 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
We know all the moves, just not the order recommended.

Dave

Can we call this the Jazz Theory of Truthers?
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Old 10th September 2017, 09:18 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Oh my God, FREAKIN hilarious. That whole book is about the difficulty in managing the 9/11 Commission. How hard did you have to work to scrape together that bit of quote mining?
It was not quote mining, it was exposing quote mining by you. You left out the real meaning, the rest of the story.

JFK and 9/11 claims supported by BS, and poor quote mining (self-debunking quote mining - did you stop reading after your did your cherry picking)
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Old 10th September 2017, 09:58 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Can we call this the Jazz Theory of Truthers?
I prefer to think of it as the Eric Morecambe approach.

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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 11th September 2017, 07:04 AM   #58
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Having largely kept out of the madness that is the 9/11 conspiracy theory for the past few years, I decided to watch a documentary over the weekend. It was called Firehouse 911.

I felt so angered and enraged with these truthers, while watching the documentary.

The visible anguish in the face of those firefighters who lost their friends that day was heartbreaking. The truth movement dishonours the memory of those people who died that day.

Watching the footage of the aircraft strike the towers, the fires and the smoke, the fact that these idiots assert it was not hot enough and so on is terrible. The fact that people chose to jump and die, rather than face the fires is so sad.

The truth movement is nothing but a despicable bunch of idiots whos sheer ignorance serves only to dishonour the lives of 3000 people who died that day.

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Old 11th September 2017, 01:14 PM   #59
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CNN has an anniversary remembrance, currently linked from their home page under the title "A rare look inside the towers." It's a vertically scrollable timeline, using segments of the Naudet footage.

By chance I was in Doylestown PA for an art fair and bicycle races yesterday, and saw their 9/11 memorial for the first time (though it's been there for two years now).

The traditional daylong suspension of debate between Truthers and debunkers seems a moot point now, but still worth honoring.
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Old 11th September 2017, 07:30 PM   #60
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Wow, almost spent a whole Sept. 11th without posting in this subforum. And it didn't feel weird.

Anyone participate in any anniversary activities today? I was surprised to see one (non truther; strictly a remembrance activity) being held by a local technical college, my surprise being based on the fact that I live nowhere near the state of New York. But it's a pleasant surprise. From what I see in our local paper, it wasn't maudlin and was dignified. That was nice to see.
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Old 11th September 2017, 07:32 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
The traditional daylong suspension of debate between Truthers and debunkers seems a moot point now, but still worth honoring.
Wow, I must've been away for far longer than I thought; I don't remember that being a thing. Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea, I just don't recall it being agreed upon... I admit, though, that could simply be pending senility affecting my memories ...
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Old 11th September 2017, 10:12 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Finest example of irony one will ever see.

That being said, finding that quote was so easy even a 911 truther could do it, you see, it is in the same damn paragraph as the designed to fail line!

You read the entire paragraph right? I mean you are not relying on anonymous bloggers on the internet right?

Yeah they sold a whole book about how difficult to manage it was, and how they pulled themselves up, overcame the obstacles and succeeded! Typical America success story!
Too funny. 16 years later and the beclowning continues apace.
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Old 12th September 2017, 04:50 AM   #63
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Happened to be in NYC yesterday. So I went to the memorial. It was closed to the public until 3 pm so family members could have their time in peace. Lots and lots of people there afterward.

There were about a dozen troofers a block away.....still spewing the same nonsense. Inside jobby jobby, Dick Cheney, Pyroclastic flow, etc, etc. Most people ignored then or told them to get a life. There response was typically "Blah blah blah, FU. So mature.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:41 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by buka001 View Post
Having largely kept out of the madness that is the 9/11 conspiracy theory for the past few years, I decided to watch a documentary over the weekend. It was called Firehouse 911.

I felt so angered and enraged with these truthers, while watching the documentary.

The visible anguish in the face of those firefighters who lost their friends that day was heartbreaking. The truth movement dishonours the memory of those people who died that day.

Watching the footage of the aircraft strike the towers, the fires and the smoke, the fact that these idiots assert it was not hot enough and so on is terrible. The fact that people chose to jump and die, rather than face the fires is so sad.

The truth movement is nothing but a despicable bunch of idiots whos sheer ignorance serves only to dishonour the lives of 3000 people who died that day.

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Your anger comes from propaganda. Whoever doesn't want more investigations are the real ones crapping on 3000+ victims (including those suffering or have died from WTC-related illness). What kind of person doesn't want an investigation into the biggest attack on the country since World War 2?

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Old 12th September 2017, 09:49 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
...What kind of person doesn't want an investigation into the biggest attack on the country since World War 2?...
You lie by innuendo, as your question insinuates that no investigation into this attack has been carried out or finished, when you of course know perfectly well that several and very large investigations, particularly the single largest FBI investigation ever, have in fact been carried out and concluded.

You just don't like the conclusions.
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Old 12th September 2017, 09:53 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You lie by innuendo, as your question insinuates that no investigation into this attack has been carried out or finished, when you of course know perfectly well that several and very large investigations, particularly the single largest FBI investigation ever, have in fact been carried out and concluded.

You just don't like the conclusions.
First draft of history.

A 9/11 Commissioner's words, not mine.

Or are you referring to the NIST investigation into the WTC destruction that was a PROVED FRAUD? Fraud, Oystein! That doesn't bother you when NIST screws with their computer model to make their desired scenario work, and even then it doesn't match with the photographic evidence, etc.? Unsatisfactory also in the sense that there are so many anomalies with the WTC that they never bothered explaining, like the foreknowledge of WTC 7.
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Old 12th September 2017, 11:13 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
First draft of history.

A 9/11 Commissioner's words, not mine.

Or are you referring to the NIST investigation into the WTC destruction that was a PROVED FRAUD? Fraud, ...................................
Sorry, I missed that in all my trade publications. Can you refer me to when this was, and by whom?
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Old 12th September 2017, 11:19 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Anyone participate in any anniversary activities today?
I called my friend that lost his wife. He's finally remarried and coming to terms with this. I visited the memorial in town and said a few words at the markers of the few people I knew.

Same as last year, likely to continue until I can't.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:35 PM   #69
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Edited by Agatha:  Removed derailing content


And on the 28 pages, how many truthers still literally think that the hijackers were framed? Most who are familiar with the evidence would tend to think that there was an Al Qaeta plot to hijack airliners. I do not think the airliners were switched with drones!

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Old 12th September 2017, 12:43 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
First draft of history.

A 9/11 Commissioner's words, not mine.
actually not, considering that the phrase was in common usage long before 9/11/2001:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a..._it_first.html

Read the article using a jaunty Irish brogue this time!
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:58 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Removed moderated content
Edited by Agatha:  Removed response to moderated content

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post

And on the 28 pages, how many truthers still literally think that the hijackers were framed? Most who are familiar with the evidence would tend to think that there was an Al Qaeta plot to hijack airliners. I do not think the airliners were switched with drones!

If you believe that Al Qaeda hijacked the planes, then there is no point in calling for another investigation.

As for actual truthers, I'm sure you are familiar with the acronyms MIHOP and LIHOP. Based solely on my own encounters with the breed, MIHOP adherents greatly outnumber LIHOP-ers.

I notice you have ignored the bulk of my post. Perhaps you would like to comment, and also (here's my naive optimism again) answer my questions?
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:17 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Nope, not out of context. It just sucked that hard. You know it's bad when even the commissioners say the 9/11 Commission was BS.


http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2007/12/they-dont-believe-it-why-do-you.html?m=1
I went to the link you provided and saw this:
Quote:
Hamilton also says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.
Why is only "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right" the only thing in quotes at the link you provided? Doesn't that mean Hamilton didn't say "that the Commission was set up to fail", but rather, said something else that is being interpreted as him meaning it was set up to fail, and being credited by you as his own words?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:24 PM   #73
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Your anger comes from propaganda. Whoever doesn't want more investigations are the real ones crapping on 3000+ victims (including those suffering or have died from WTC-related illness). What kind of person doesn't want an investigation into the biggest attack on the country since World War 2?

Sent from my iPad at Starbucks
There are those who think the re-investigation into the Pearl Harbor attack should take priority. And the JFK assassination. And McKinley and Lincoln. Not to mention Waco and Oklahoma City.

Get in line.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:33 PM   #74
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
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Truther truthers: quote the line "we were set up to fail" while ignoring the fact that it was a set up for the mic drop:

"What we could not have anticipated were the remarkable people and circumstances that would coalesce within and around the 9/11 Commission over the coming twenty months to enable our success."
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:35 PM   #75
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
First draft of history.

A 9/11 Commissioner's words, not mine.

Or are you referring to the NIST investigation into the WTC destruction that was a PROVED FRAUD? Fraud, Oystein! That doesn't bother you when NIST screws with their computer model to make their desired scenario work, and even then it doesn't match with the photographic evidence, etc.? Unsatisfactory also in the sense that there are so many anomalies with the WTC that they never bothered explaining, like the foreknowledge of WTC 7.
Oh please, please, please Oystein on about WTC7. We can all use a good laugh.

Everything, and I mean everything you just wrote it a confirmed lie.

As for investigations, there have been:

The 9-11 Commission.
FBI
CIA
NSA
NIST
NYPD
FDNY
State of New York
Port Authority of NYC

Countless insurance and university studies. 9-11 is the single most investigated event in the past 50 years.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:47 PM   #76
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For the grownups in the room, History Channel aired "The Road to 9-11" over the weekend:

Descripttion:

http://www.history.com/shows/road-to-911/about

Episodes

http://www.history.com/shows/road-to-911

It was three episodes of comprehensive back-story about every aspect leading to the successful attacks.

All the players are interviewed, Clarke, Scheuer, Black, and dozens of others in the FBI, CIA, and journalists from Pakistan, and the Middle East.

It is the first time I've seen the chain of CIA decision traced to where needed information was blocked from continuing to the FBI. They don't name the guy, but the how and way is spelled out.

Check it out if you can.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:57 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
For the grownups in the room, History Channel aired "The Road to 9-11" over the weekend:

Descripttion:

http://www.history.com/shows/road-to-911/about

Episodes

http://www.history.com/shows/road-to-911

It was three episodes of comprehensive back-story about every aspect leading to the successful attacks.

All the players are interviewed, Clarke, Scheuer, Black, and dozens of others in the FBI, CIA, and journalists from Pakistan, and the Middle East.

It is the first time I've seen the chain of CIA decision traced to where needed information was blocked from continuing to the FBI. They don't name the guy, but the how and way is spelled out.

Check it out if you can.
Missed those, and will attempt to catch them on re-runs.
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:13 PM   #78
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
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Edited by Agatha:  Removed response to moderated content


We got a number of investigations. We also saw the attacks first hand either as one of the hundreds of thousands of eye witnesses in Manhattan, or the thousands who were in the WTC, or the thousands of First Responders, and the rest of us saw it on live TV. By sundown on 9-11, 2001 we all new the basics: 4 jets were hijacked by Al Qaeda operatives to be used as missiles.

So what was there to investigate?

Intelligence failures? There are internal IG investigations at CIA, NSA, NRO, FBI, DoS, and Customs.

AA and United conducted internal reviews, as did the airports of departure.

We know that the Bush NSC clearly didn't understand the threat, and while there has been no honest explanation as to why, the fact is we all know this to be true.

What else do we need to investigate, structural failure?

Done. Along with NIST there have been almost a dozen engineering papers exploring the failures of the three WTC buildings. THE problem is that they're written by engineers FOR engineers, mystifying stupid people everywhere.

If we spend another couple of million bucks on a new investigation it will come back with the same result: Collapse due to impact damage and fire.

Nobody cared about the 28 pages because they just detailed what we already knew. You have to understand that normal people already did their homework, and are not needlessly paranoid.
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Old 12th September 2017, 02:14 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Missed those, and will attempt to catch them on re-runs.
There were a few jaw-droppers even for me.
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Old 12th September 2017, 03:24 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Whoever doesn't want more investigations are the real ones crapping on 3000+ victims (including those suffering or have died from WTC-related illness).
I have no problems with people investigating the events. You need to convince me as to why I should spend my tax dollars when no one has shown reason.
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