|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
![]() |
#81 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 26,368
|
So *********** what? Yes, part of the aim of the 9/11 Commission was to find out what happened and why, and in that sense to write a 'first draft of history'; subsequent drafts would be compiled, as one might expect, by historians studying the events and adding their own commentaries.
We know that the aim of the NIST investigations was to determine likely failure modes of the buildings that could then be engineered out in future construction. They did so, and their results are widely accepted by competent structural engineers (as opposed to incompetent armchair critics). Since your claim of fraud is untrue, does that therefore make you a proven liar? They also never explained why the video recorder often misses the first minute of the program, the toast always falls butter side down, or the second cup of coffee never tastes quite as good as the first. In fact, they didn't explain anything irrelevant to the failure modes of the building. Oh, the horror. One wonders whether the inability of 9/11 truthers to understand that, when two skyscrapers have just collapsed and a third has been burning unchecked for several hours, someone with a functioning brain cell might think it likely that the third will collapse, is wilful or simply innate stupidity, but there isn't really a third option. Dave |
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#82 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 26,368
|
Since the attack has already been investigated in detail by the FBI (in the largest investigation in the history of that agency), FEMA, NIST, a government-appointed commission, and several private agencies, all of whom agree on the significant points where their areas of investigation overlap. This is clearly not good enough for you; fine, let's just accept that for the moment rather than going into the reasons why it isn't. Can you please describe the investigation you feel is needed in sufficient detail that it should actually be carried out? Who would conduct it, what powers would they possess, how would these powers be delegated to them and from where, and what would be the ultimate aim in terms of actions arising from this new investigation? That would be a good starting point.
Dave |
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#83 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 206
|
Tens of thousands of tons of steel debris, and they put them in some yards, spend several hundred hours selecting several hundred pieces, and then sell everything else as scrap several weeks later. After that, they pursue an investigation driven by videos and computer models. That alone makes the investigation open to a lot of skepticism.
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#84 |
Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 217
|
My anger is totally directed against people like you.
No propaganda. I am a structural engineer and have the logic and competence to review the plethora of evidence and studies out there and based on my experience and knowledge the conclusions drawn are reasonable. None of the BS that Richard Gage and his ilk make any reasonable sense. The fact that people chose to jump out of the building rather than walk down because the fires were too widespread, illustrates the cowardice of the truth movement. Whitewashing over this tragic detail to further a psychological cognitive bias dishonours the memory of those poor souls. The entire premisis of the truth movement does not even get off the ground. In 16 years no logical, plausible scenario has ever been provided as to how 3 fully staffed office buildings were magically rigged for demolition, without a single person wondering why the hell have these guys been drilling into columns and laying thousands of detonation charges, cables and so forth, without saying gee arent these explosive likely to kill someone, should I maybe say something? Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk |
__________________
Only the dead have seen the end of war! |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#85 |
Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 217
|
Perhaps in your mind it does?
In the minds of rational people, it was relatively obvious. Everyone saw the planes strike the towers and the ensuing fireball and the fires afterwards. Rational, sensible and logical people can derive that, that has pretty much everything to do with why they collapsed. Logical, rational and sensible people would have understood that the likelihood of mysterious people sneaking in undetected for several months, ripping out dry walls, drilling into columns, placing in detonation charges, laying of thousands of meters of detonation charges, completely undetected is as near to zero as possible, would mean the collapse had something, if not everything to do with the impact and subsequant fires that followed the plane crashes. So to examine every single member of steel would be superfluous and a reasonable engineer would understand that they would only need a select few structural members to examine the specific dynamics of the collapse. But, lets be honest, even if they had studied and documented every single piece of steel recovered, you and the truth movement would still reject those findings as that would not satisfy your psychological cognitive bias that this tragic occurence must be a conspiracy. Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk |
__________________
Only the dead have seen the end of war! |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#86 |
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
|
No, ralfyman is right, you're the one who is blind but fancies yourself a skeptic with high standards.
Sent from my IBM Simon at Mount Hua Teahouse. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#87 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 662
|
Citizen investigations are fine, it's the crappy sort of industry that's built on top of it that continues to dupe people after the leading "investigators" realize they haven't found anything significant.
Sent from Somewhere using Some Technology |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#88 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,910
|
16 years of lies - dumbest lies ever
|
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#89 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 526
|
Who "proved" that the WTC destruction was fraud, when most who read the reports accepts the interpretation.
Since you have no knowledge or practical experience running simulations it isn't too much of a stretch to figure out "screwing" with those simulations. You vary the parameters so that the simulation is representative to the actual event. The dynamics are so many and so varied, no one could program correctly the first time. Like the foreknowledge of the WTC 7 [sic] collapse? Oh you mean those individuals who surmised that a building that was burning for nearly 7 hours might collapse? You are truly a example of someone who criticizes people for not thinking properly, yet swallowing CT BS hook line and sinker without giving that belief scrutiny. Truly sad. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#90 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,842
|
I can't find any summary or footage of how that event went, or who the "mystery" guests were.
On NewBud's Twitter: https://twitter.com/NewsBud_/status/907078809173745665
Originally Posted by @NewsBud_
![]() |
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#91 | ||
Winking at the Moon
Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 12,361
|
|
||
__________________
Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader |
|||
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#92 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,605
|
|
__________________
Can you people please stop not thinking? - Gorgonian The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -Good luck America with President Trump |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#93 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,842
|
|
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#94 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,605
|
|
__________________
Can you people please stop not thinking? - Gorgonian The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -Good luck America with President Trump |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#95 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 15,842
|
|
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#96 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,605
|
|
__________________
Can you people please stop not thinking? - Gorgonian The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -Good luck America with President Trump |
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#97 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,011
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#98 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 526
|
Finished watching the three episodes. The inter rivalry between the CIA and FBI was appalling. That said I have been involved with government bureaucracies in my career namely the EPA vs NRA and they showed the same bickering and infighting shown in the episode. Perhaps that is just the way of government agencies.
I was amused at the difference of opinion of Clarke and Scheuer concerning the proposed assassination of Bin Laden in the 90's. Who knows what might have been, had they carried out a successful attack. I doubt the "truthers" watched the episodes but anyone with a semblance of intelligence can see the evidence that this wasn't a government plot, CD or covering up of miscues. |
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#99 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,347
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#100 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,347
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|