IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 14th December 2012, 02:54 AM   #1
Dcdrac
Philosopher
 
Dcdrac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,141
Alan Turing Pardon Pleaa

A letter has been written by Stephen Hawkings amongst others, to request a pardon fo Alan Turing, it is about time it was done.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...tephen-hawking
Dcdrac is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 03:27 AM   #2
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 30,145
While I think this is an excellent idea and the treatment of Turing was terrible, what about the others treated similarly?
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 03:38 AM   #3
Dcdrac
Philosopher
 
Dcdrac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,141
Yes a blanket pardon would be an idea after alla lot of gay men were forced into a life of criminality and leading otherwise blmeless lives but were branded criminals
Dcdrac is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 06:43 AM   #4
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,812
I thought they did this 10 years ago.

Well, better (even) later than never.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 08:35 AM   #5
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 30,145
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I thought they did this 10 years ago.

Well, better (even) later than never.
I think that was the government apology.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 08:40 AM   #6
Weak Kitten
Graduate Poster
 
Weak Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,909
Who else needs to apologize?
__________________
A quick reminder to all participants that although incomprehensibility is not against the Membership Agreement, incivility is. Please try and remember this, and keep your exchanges polite and respectful. -arthwollipot
Weak Kitten is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 09:57 AM   #7
DrDave
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,300
Originally Posted by Weak Kitten View Post
Who else needs to apologize?
Becomingagodo
DrDave is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th December 2012, 10:29 AM   #8
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,812
Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
I think that was the government apology.
Wait, they apologized but didn't issue a pardon?
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 02:53 AM   #9
Acleron
Master Poster
 
Acleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,290
Originally Posted by Dcdrac View Post
Yes a blanket pardon would be an idea after alla lot of gay men were forced into a life of criminality and leading otherwise blmeless lives but were branded criminals
The apology was meaningless, it would only be a real apology if the people who were responsible apologised. But a blanket pardon would have a real effect. It would mean that the government of the country agrees that all those repressive laws were wrong.
Acleron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 02:58 AM   #10
StankApe
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,628
Good, he was horribly treated.

is it just me or does the phrase "chemical castration" make you wince?
StankApe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 05:06 AM   #11
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 30,145
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Wait, they apologized but didn't issue a pardon?
Yes.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 05:36 AM   #12
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
We've discussed this idea here before and I'm still of the view that I don't think it is a good idea. By the standards of today the standards of previous times in regards to civil rights were appalling, women and men not having the votes, race discrimination and so on. I just don't think we can pick out individuals that we today admire for whatever reasons and issues pardons based on our modern admiration and sensibilities.

Whether we like it or not he was a criminal in his day and what he did was by the standards of the day morally wrong. His was not a case in which he was singled out or had laws used inappropriately to victimise him he was simply treated the same as everyone else. If he had been singled out for victimisation unjustly even by the standards of the times I think you can make a case for a posthumous pardon, but that was not the circumstances behind his arrests and punishments.
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

Last edited by Darat; 15th December 2012 at 05:38 AM. Reason: words
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 01:07 PM   #13
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,706
Why Turing and not Oscar Wilde?
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 01:56 PM   #14
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
A pardon seems to imply that he is being forgiven for his wrongdoing. But in my opinion, he did nothing wrong.

Yet I'm not sure that an apology is appropriate either, because the actual people responsible for his persecution under British law are long dead.

Perhaps the best action, in my mind, is an official acknowledgement that homosexuals were wronged by past policies, accompanied by a statement of intent to learn from the mistakes of the past in order to make a better future.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 05:46 PM   #15
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
He's dead, I don't think he cares.

They should pardon anyone currently alive in prison or suffering due to "chemical castration" laws and apologize to them, and they should make sure no similar laws remain on the books today.
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th December 2012, 06:53 PM   #16
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,961
Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
A pardon seems to imply that he is being forgiven for his wrongdoing. But in my opinion, he did nothing wrong.

Yet I'm not sure that an apology is appropriate either, because the actual people responsible for his persecution under British law are long dead.

Perhaps the best action, in my mind, is an official acknowledgement that homosexuals were wronged by past policies, accompanied by a statement of intent to learn from the mistakes of the past in order to make a better future.
This. But it's already been done, hasn't it?

There's no point in pardoning him now.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:01 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.