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15th December 2012, 10:10 PM | #601 |
Skepticifimisticalationist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 28,589
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You obstinately refuse to consider what someone else has already brought up, quoted from the very article you posted in defense of your position:
Quote:
A very big part of human interpersonal communication - one that is sometimes easy to forget about when we have discussions via text - is body language. Like spoken words, body language can be threatening, demeaning, abusive, intimidating, or hostile. You can humiliate a person with certain kinds of body language just as you can humiliate them with spoken or written language. To dismiss such things as "just a look" is rather naive. |
15th December 2012, 11:40 PM | #602 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker
Quote:
First, when people exhibit thoughts, feelings, fears, or whatever else in predictable, normal, situations, then I have a real problem saying that those perfectly normal feelings aren't reasonable. Why do we have segregated changing rooms? We could debate that, and some people have put forth opinions, but the bottom line is that we have them because we want them, and it would cause people, especially women, anxiety to undress in the presence of the opposite sex. Of course there are exceptions to that general tendency. I've enjoyed some great fun in clothing optional situations, but I've chosen to be in those situations, as did the ladies with whom I was sharing the experience. We were there to watch and be watched, and that was all part of the fun. When we aren't planning on that experience, it's not so much fun. The anxiety we experience when naked around people we don't want to be naked around isn't from "a part of our brain that cares about facts." Come to think of it, the joy we find when we are naked around people we do want to be naked around also comes from a part of our brain that doesn't care about facts. Nonetheless, those feelings are both common and normal. We should respect both the joy, and the anxiety. My second problem with this is that I see a real asymmetry in consoderation for different people's concerns. Let's consider the plight of a nonoperative transwoman who wants to go swimming at a public pool. I am talking about someone who is, biologically, male. "She" could do the following. Dress in male or androgynous clothes. (i.e. jeans and shirts are worn by both sexes) and use the men's locker room. Of course, "she" might feel awkward, anxious, or uncomfortable in that situation. On the other hand, if "she" uses the women's locker room and exposes "her" penis and scrotum, all the ladies in that locker room will feel awkward, anxious, or uncomfortable. Why is it that the anxiety of those women and girls is less relevant than the anxiety of the biologically male person who is "really" a female? I'm not seeing why the transwoman's concerns trump everyone elses. Remember,I'm talking about someone who never intends to go through reassignment surgery. |
16th December 2012, 06:57 AM | #603 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,398
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