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Old 6th December 2020, 01:24 PM   #1
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Wink Woo-Woo End of the World – Tight Jupiter-Saturn Conjunction – December 21

The woo-woos are anticipating judgement day. The rest of us can just marvel at this rare display by nature.

On 2020 DEC 21 at 18:21 UT Jupiter and Saturn will appear to have a geocentric angular separation of only 6.1 arcminutes, the narrowest since 1623 and until 2080. However, those separations are not small enough for Jupiter to occult Saturn. The last such occultation occurred in 6857 BC, while the next two will both occur during 7541.

Great Conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn occur about every 20 years. That’s their mutual synodic (lapping) period with a mean value of 19.86 years. Sometimes the conjunctions are triple due to the effect of apparent retrograde motion, but not this time.

My Great Conjunction chart depicting the relative positions of Jupiter and Saturn during December 19-23 can be viewed at https://www.CurtRenz.com/jupiter.html

Photos and descriptions of the upcoming conjunction would be welcome additions to this thread.

Last edited by Notrump; 6th December 2020 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 6th December 2020, 01:39 PM   #2
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We went out and looked a couple of nights ago. I've since moved my telescope to the upper deck; hope it stays clear tonight and especially at the closest. Not a sure thing in this area in December!
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Old 6th December 2020, 02:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Notrump View Post
The woo-woos are anticipating judgement day. The rest of us can just marvel at this rare display by nature.

On 2020 DEC 21 at 18:21 UT Jupiter and Saturn will appear to have a geocentric angular separation of only 6.1 arcminutes, the narrowest since 1623 and until 2080. However, those separations are not small enough for Jupiter to occult Saturn. The last such occultation occurred in 6857 BC, while the next two will both occur during 7541.

Great Conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn occur about every 20 years. That’s their mutual synodic (lapping) period with a mean value of 19.86 years. Sometimes the conjunctions are triple due to the effect of apparent retrograde motion, but not this time.

My Great Conjunction chart depicting the relative positions of Jupiter and Saturn during December 19-23 can be viewed at https://www.CurtRenz.com/jupiter.html

Photos and descriptions of the upcoming conjunction would be welcome additions to this thread.

This is an especially big deal for astrologers, because [deep breath...] all the conjunctions of Saturn and Jupiter since 1842 have been in a subset of zodiac signs associated with one element (earth) but this time and for the next 200 years they'll be in a different group of signs (air). That makes this conjunction a Grand Mutation, which heralds significant changes, a change of era as it were.

Just in case anyone was under the impression that things were just going to stay pretty much the same for the next ten or twenty years...
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Old 6th December 2020, 02:14 PM   #4
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Sad experience tells me it will be cloudy here that night.
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Old 6th December 2020, 02:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Sad experience tells me it will be cloudy here that night.
They are already close together right now. Even if you miss the closest night it's still spectacular.
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Old 6th December 2020, 09:01 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They are already close together right now. Even if you miss the closest night it's still spectacular.
But it clouded up here tonight!
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Old 19th December 2020, 12:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They are already close together right now. Even if you miss the closest night it's still spectacular.
Indeed, and only 2 more days until they appear closest.
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Old 19th December 2020, 12:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Notrump View Post
On 2020 DEC 21 at 18:21 UT Jupiter and Saturn will appear to have a geocentric angular separation of only 6.1 arcminutes, the narrowest since 1623 and until 2080.
Beaten by a week in the astronomy thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...=133951&page=3
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Old 20th December 2020, 01:05 PM   #9
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Grmbl. I have a telescope at my parents, but of course it's cloudy when I got there.

Way too much light pollution and buildings where I live to look at them...
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Old 20th December 2020, 03:18 PM   #10
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I'm watching via the explore cams because there are no breaks in the clouds expected for the next week.
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Old 20th December 2020, 03:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Grmbl. I have a telescope at my parents, but of course it's cloudy when I got there.

Way too much light pollution and buildings where I live to look at them...
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm watching via the explore cams because there are no breaks in the clouds expected for the next week.
I have a telescope on my upper deck, just for the purpose, but I'm in Ginger's neck of the woods.
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Old 21st December 2020, 03:29 AM   #12
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FWIW, the internet has run with the idea that this doesn't signal the end of the world, but instead that black people are going to wake up with superpowers.
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Old 21st December 2020, 09:17 AM   #13
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The closest conjunction is in about two hours (not that that really matters with the slow movements involved). I've been looking at various European live feeds. It's been overcast here (and will continue to be tonight) so my own scopes won't see it unless there's a fortunate break in the cloud cover.
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Old 21st December 2020, 01:15 PM   #14
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We took the kids out last night to see it, so didn't take the telescope out, but had binoculars on a tripod. The moon was also good to look at through the binocs.

We did get the campervan stuck, and needed towing out, so it was a bit of an adventure.
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Old 21st December 2020, 04:50 PM   #15
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Tonight being the night, we're having heavy snow. That happens maybe twice a year here! My telescope (Meade ETX90) is up on the upper deck, protected only by a trash bag. Hope it'll be OK.
Hmm, or maybe not. If it's damaged, I'll have an excuse to treat myself to a Questar Birder!
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Old 21st December 2020, 04:58 PM   #16
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11x80 binocs say it ain't all that spectacular. Interesting to be sure but I'm gonna hold off killing the first born Jewish boyos for now.
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Old 21st December 2020, 05:50 PM   #17
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I have a pretty clear naked eye view and it looks like two stars very close together, but clearly separated. I thought it was going to be the appearance of one bright star.
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Old 21st December 2020, 08:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Notrump View Post
The woo-woos are anticipating judgement day. The rest of us can just marvel at this rare display by nature.

On 2020 DEC 21 at 18:21 UT Jupiter and Saturn will appear to have a geocentric angular separation of only 6.1 arcminutes, the narrowest since 1623 and until 2080. However, those separations are not small enough for Jupiter to occult Saturn. The last such occultation occurred in 6857 BC, while the next two will both occur during 7541.

Great Conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn occur about every 20 years. That’s their mutual synodic (lapping) period with a mean value of 19.86 years. Sometimes the conjunctions are triple due to the effect of apparent retrograde motion, but not this time.

My Great Conjunction chart depicting the relative positions of Jupiter and Saturn during December 19-23 can be viewed at https://www.CurtRenz.com/jupiter.html

Photos and descriptions of the upcoming conjunction would be welcome additions to this thread.
OK, I totally forgot about it and now I'm in deep doodoo. How far apart will they be tomorrow Dec. 22nd?
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Old 21st December 2020, 10:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, I totally forgot about it and now I'm in deep doodoo. How far apart will they be tomorrow Dec. 22nd?
Not relevant. The righteous will be taken up in the rapture and the rest will be killed and left to be eaten by birds.
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Old 21st December 2020, 10:49 PM   #20
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It wasn't merely cloudy here, it snowed!
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Old 21st December 2020, 11:11 PM   #21
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Old 22nd December 2020, 01:03 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I have a pretty clear naked eye view and it looks like two stars very close together, but clearly separated. I thought it was going to be the appearance of one bright star.
I've always been interested in astronomy but I've never understood what the big deal is about conjunctions, and have no particular desire to see this one.

I'm also slightly put off by the media bigging this up as being a likely explanation of the star of Bethlehem. A far more likely explanation is that the author of Matthew liked to make up good stories.
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Old 22nd December 2020, 09:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, I totally forgot about it and now I'm in deep doodoo. How far apart will they be tomorrow Dec. 22nd?
They will still be fairly close for some nights to come.
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Old 22nd December 2020, 09:27 AM   #24
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'Twas overcast here, so the world didn't end. Oh well, maybe another time.
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Old 22nd December 2020, 09:28 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
'Twas overcast here, so the world didn't end. Oh well, maybe another time.
Clouds covered the star here as well, preventing the end of the world. It's a miracle!
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Old 22nd December 2020, 10:32 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Clouds covered the star here as well, preventing the end of the world. It's a miracle!
Same here. Halleluia! Proof of a loving God for sure.
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Old 22nd December 2020, 06:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I've always been interested in astronomy but I've never understood what the big deal is about conjunctions, and have no particular desire to see this one.
It has astrological significance. Before people even knew what planets were, the occasional time where they seemed to come close to each other was seen as a sign of significance. We still carry cultural baggage from pre-scientific times.

Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I'm also slightly put off by the media bigging this up as being a likely explanation of the star of Bethlehem. A far more likely explanation is that the author of Matthew liked to make up good stories.
Again, I think that the explanation, if true, is astrological in nature. Over time and repeated retellings of the story, the conjunction of "stars" became a single bright star. Of course, it may not be the source of the story at all. I've seen moderately-compelling claims that what they actually saw, if they existed, was a supernova.

Legends frequently have an origin in reality. It's rare, though not unknown, for them to be made up from whole cloth.
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Old 22nd December 2020, 10:20 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I've seen moderately-compelling claims that what they actually saw, if they existed, was a supernova.
The most compelling, of course, being that extraordinary story by Arthur C Clarke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_St...ke_short_story)
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Old 22nd December 2020, 11:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I've always been interested in astronomy but I've never understood what the big deal is about conjunctions, and have no particular desire to see this one.

I'm also slightly put off by the media bigging this up as being a likely explanation of the star of Bethlehem. A far more likely explanation is that the author of Matthew liked to make up good stories.
For me it would have been convenience.
It's hard enough to get a chance to see something in general due to the light pollution and often cloudy weather.
Having two such great targets next to each other is very rare and would have been nice.
Alas, no luck for me.
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Old 22nd December 2020, 11:43 PM   #30
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For me it's just the rarity of the occurence. Like the year 2000. "See, it has three zeros next to each other!" "Okay, but the year before had three nines next to each other...?" "Right, but zeros are more important."
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Old 23rd December 2020, 07:43 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The most compelling, of course, being that extraordinary story by Arthur C Clarke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_St...ke_short_story)
In Illinois, we had "speech competitions" in high school. Students would compete in a variety of contests such as Prose Reading, Radio Speaking, Original Comedy, and the like. Basically, standing in front of people talking, or acting, or doing something.

That story was my Prose Reading entry. I won the district competition with it. Very powerful ending. The judges liked that.
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Old 23rd December 2020, 03:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I had rain. I could have looked up, but I'd have drowned.
Hah!
Xmas turkey
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Old 23rd December 2020, 04:35 PM   #33
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I went up to the deck last night, only to find:
A)The telescope, protected only by a garbage bag had fallen over in the wind and rain; and
B)I was too late, the planets had set.

I checked out the 'scope this afternoon and after clearing some condensation from inside the erecting prism found it to be ok. So I'll go out again tonight, a bit earlier.

Then I'll bring the telescope down to shelter.
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Old 24th December 2020, 02:58 PM   #34
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While occultations of Saturn by Jupiter are exceptionally rare as noted in my opening post, we also don't see mutual planetary occultations very often in the cases of any pairs of planets. And we are currently in an unusually long dry spell. The most recent case was an 1818 occultation of Jupiter by Venus, with no observation reports. The only report ever of a mutual planetary occultation was by an amateur astronomer who observed Venus occulting Mercury in 1737. The next mutual planetary occultation will be when Venus occults Jupiter in 2065, but that will be almost impossible to observe with an elongation from the Sun of only 8˚.
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Old 4th January 2021, 05:28 AM   #35
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I decided to get myself a telescope all the same. Various interesting phenomena take place in the sky, and I think even just watching the moon is an interesting activity in the evenings. But I don’t know which telescope is better to buy. This article https://homemakerguide.com/best-telescope/ has characteristics of some options, but I don’t know which telescope for home use is better.
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