Can you build an object that floats above another object using permanent magnets? - Page 2

wardenclyffe · 29th May 2020, 12:24 PM

I understand. But what I don't understand is the difference between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet. I mean, I understand that one is non-magnetic until electrified and the other is always magnetic. I assume that an electromagnet is generally more powerful than a permanent magnet. But is that it?

In that clock, would it be theoretically possible to use a permanent magnet if it were powerful enough, or is there some other characteristic that an electromagnet has that allows it to levitate the ball?

Ward

Myriad · 29th May 2020, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by wardenclyffe

I understand. But what I don't understand is the difference between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet. I mean, I understand that one is non-magnetic until electrified and the other is always magnetic. I assume that an electromagnet is generally more powerful than a permanent magnet. But is that it?

In that clock, would it be theoretically possible to use a permanent magnet if it were powerful enough, or is there some other characteristic that an electromagnet has that allows it to levitate the ball?

Ward

The electromagnet can be turned on and off, or varied in strength, very quickly and continuously as needed to keep the ball in position.

wardenclyffe · 29th May 2020, 04:30 PM

So how would the clock sense where the ball is in order to regulate the magnet? I'm sure there's an easy way, but I don't see it.

Ward

Steve001 · 29th May 2020, 05:09 PM

An old video on magnetic levitation with permanent magnets. Part 1. https://youtu.be/OI_HFnNTfyU

Steve001 · 29th May 2020, 05:19 PM

Deleted.

Myriad · 31st May 2020, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by wardenclyffe

So how would the clock sense where the ball is in order to regulate the magnet? I'm sure there's an easy way, but I don't see it.

I'm not sure it does actually sense where the ball is, in this particular case. It might create a cyclical field that happens to have a dynamically stable position for the ball. The fact that the ball must be placed at one precise point suggests this. A system that senses and adjusts should be able to recapture the ball from a larger range.

But sensing should be possible from the electromagnet itself, in theory. If an electromagnet is on, and you push a steel ball through its field, that will affect the current in the coil. The engineering of a functioning system out of that effect might be difficult, though.

MattNelson · 9th January 2021, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by MattNelson

...

Here's a setup using smaller magnets for the 2-pieces, with longer beams half as wide:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0pIVBd0aN0

Find a few other magnet projects on my YT channel.

Puppycow · 10th January 2021, 08:45 AM

When I was young I had some doughnut-shaped magnets. You can get them to levitate above each other permanently by putting a dowel or a pencil through the middle. I suspect that "permanent" doesn't mean literally forever, but for a long time anyway.

29th May 2020, 12:24 PM	#41
wardenclyffe Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,292	I understand. But what I don't understand is the difference between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet. I mean, I understand that one is non-magnetic until electrified and the other is always magnetic. I assume that an electromagnet is generally more powerful than a permanent magnet. But is that it? In that clock, would it be theoretically possible to use a permanent magnet if it were powerful enough, or is there some other characteristic that an electromagnet has that allows it to levitate the ball? Ward
	__________________ ~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347

29th May 2020, 03:08 PM	#42
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,472	Originally Posted by wardenclyffe I understand. But what I don't understand is the difference between a permanent magnet and an electromagnet. I mean, I understand that one is non-magnetic until electrified and the other is always magnetic. I assume that an electromagnet is generally more powerful than a permanent magnet. But is that it? In that clock, would it be theoretically possible to use a permanent magnet if it were powerful enough, or is there some other characteristic that an electromagnet has that allows it to levitate the ball? Ward The electromagnet can be turned on and off, or varied in strength, very quickly and continuously as needed to keep the ball in position.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...

29th May 2020, 04:30 PM	#43
wardenclyffe Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,292	So how would the clock sense where the ball is in order to regulate the magnet? I'm sure there's an easy way, but I don't see it. Ward
	__________________ ~~Na eth'er aa, ammre' en ank'aar'eith, d'emner'aa-, asd'reng'aather, em'n'err-aae...~ - Alenara Al'Kher'aat, aged 347

29th May 2020, 05:09 PM	#44
Steve001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,722	An old video on magnetic levitation with permanent magnets. Part 1. https://youtu.be/OI_HFnNTfyU
	Last edited by Steve001; 29th May 2020 at 05:10 PM.

31st May 2020, 09:48 AM	#46
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,472	Originally Posted by wardenclyffe So how would the clock sense where the ball is in order to regulate the magnet? I'm sure there's an easy way, but I don't see it. I'm not sure it does actually sense where the ball is, in this particular case. It might create a cyclical field that happens to have a dynamically stable position for the ball. The fact that the ball must be placed at one precise point suggests this. A system that senses and adjusts should be able to recapture the ball from a larger range. But sensing should be possible from the electromagnet itself, in theory. If an electromagnet is on, and you push a steel ball through its field, that will affect the current in the coil. The engineering of a functioning system out of that effect might be difficult, though.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...

29th May 2020, 05:19 PM	#45
Steve001 Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,722	Deleted.

9th January 2021, 12:18 PM	#47
MattNelson Thinker Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 170	Image link revived plus YouTube link Originally Posted by MattNelson ... Here's a setup using smaller magnets for the 2-pieces, with longer beams half as wide: Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0pIVBd0aN0 Find a few other magnet projects on my YT channel.
MattNelson Thinker Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 170

10th January 2021, 08:45 AM	#48
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 25,740	When I was young I had some doughnut-shaped magnets. You can get them to levitate above each other permanently by putting a dowel or a pencil through the middle. I suspect that "permanent" doesn't mean literally forever, but for a long time anyway.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare