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Old 26th December 2020, 05:06 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Short video covering the fates of SN01-SN08:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Ik089A5nc

From cryo tank test to 12.5km flight test took 10 months.
Meanwhile, over at SLS......
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Old 26th December 2020, 05:09 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
SSTO is already possible. It is just so uneconomical with current tech that no one bothers with it.
Agree, but as I said, no significant payload. Therefpre, as you say, uneconomical

However, there has been been a successful SSTO vehicle that took two astronauts into orbit!
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Old 26th December 2020, 05:30 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
However, there has been been a successful SSTO vehicle that took two astronauts into orbit!
I am unaware about any existing SSTO that can orbit anything, let alone two astronauts.

One hint: being on certain height (for a moment) is not same thing as orbiting on same height.

In first case, gravity will inevitably drag them down.

In second case, gravity will try that too, but these guys will miss Earth, quite literally. To pull it off, quite a lot of sideways speed is required.
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Old 26th December 2020, 05:36 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Agree, but as I said, no significant payload. Therefpre, as you say, uneconomical

However, there has been been a successful SSTO vehicle that took two astronauts into orbit!
<Citation Needed>
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Old 26th December 2020, 05:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
I am unaware about any existing SSTO that can orbit anything, let alone two astronauts.

One hint: being on certain height (for a moment) is not same thing as orbiting on same height.

In first case, gravity will inevitably drag them down.

In second case, gravity will try that too, but these guys will miss Earth, quite literally. To pull it off, quite a lot of sideways speed is required.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
<Citation Needed>
OK, let me drop a clue or two

There were six of these SSTO vehicles that each successfully took two astronauts to orbit along with some additional payload, over a period of just over 3 years.... its never been done again.

ETA: C'mon guys, think outside the square
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Old 26th December 2020, 09:42 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK, let me drop a clue or two

There were six of these SSTO vehicles that each successfully took two astronauts to orbit along with some additional payload, over a period of just over 3 years.... its never been done again.

ETA: C'mon guys, think outside the square
Lunar orbit doesn't count.
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Old 27th December 2020, 12:28 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Lunar orbit doesn't count.
Yes, it does

Wikipedia: A single-stage-to-orbit (or SSTO) vehicle reaches orbit from the surface of a body using only propellants and fluids and without expending tanks, engines, or other major hardware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stage-to-orbit

The Free Dictionary: A single-stage-to-orbit (or SSTO) vehicle reaches orbit from the surface of a body without jettisoning hardware, expending only propellants and fluids.
https://encyclopedia.thefreedictiona...Stage-to-Orbit

Aviation Dictionary: A single stage to orbit (or SSTO) vehicle reaches orbit from the surface of a body without jettisoning hardware, expending only propellants and fluids
http://aviation_dictionary.enacademi...pheric_vehicle

Explosive Rail Launch by Royce Jones on Academia.edu
Single-stage to orbit — A single-stage-to-orbit (or SSTO) vehicle reaches orbit from the surface of a body without jettisoning hardware

https://www.academia.edu/26747819/Explosive_Rail_Launch

The Moon is "a body" so that makes the ascent stage of the LM an SSTO. Even the Russian "Luna" and the Chinese "Chang-e5 sample return missions used SSTO vehicles.

Even NASA does not limit the term SSTO to earth orbit
"PROPOSAL NUMBER: 09-2 S3.08-8305
PHASE 1 CONTRACT NUMBER: NNX10CC61P
SUBTOPIC TITLE: Planetary Ascent Vehicles
PROPOSAL TITLE: NOFBX Single-Stage-to-Orbit Mars Ascent Vehicle Engine


https://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts...3.08-8305.html

MAVs to be used to bring astronauts back from Mars will be SSTO's because Mars' gravity is low enough to allow it, and because it is by far the simplest, most cost effective engineering solution
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Old 27th December 2020, 10:33 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK, let me drop a clue or two

There were six of these SSTO vehicles that each successfully took two astronauts to orbit along with some additional payload, over a period of just over 3 years.... its never been done again.
You knew very well that everyone would assume launching from Earth.
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Old 27th December 2020, 11:08 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
You knew very well that everyone would assume launching from Earth.
Yep, and what happens when you assume?
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Old 27th December 2020, 12:01 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Lack of fuel causes the engines to run "Oxidizer Rich". AIUI (no doubt Jay will correct me if I'm wrong) when that happens, the oxygen will be chemically reacting with the best available candidate.
You're not wrong. *cough* NK-33 *cough*.
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Old 27th December 2020, 12:58 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yes, it does.
Only if you conveniently forget that it took a huge multi-stage rocket to get the LM module onto the moon in the first place.
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Old 27th December 2020, 01:19 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And FYI, here is Scott Manley on today's test, which includes an awesome view from the landing pad camera looking straight up at the rocket bellyflopping and flipping just before it crashes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egHxiX40eJY
He apparently didn't stow the Dressing Gown of Doom quite safely enough.
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Old 27th December 2020, 03:00 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
Only if you conveniently forget that it took a huge multi-stage rocket to get the LM module onto the moon in the first place.
Sorry, but why is that relevant?
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Old 28th December 2020, 02:14 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep, and what happens when you assume?
Benny Hill knows the answer to that question.
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Old 29th December 2020, 09:37 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Agree, but as I said, no significant payload. Therefpre, as you say, uneconomical

However, there has been been a successful SSTO vehicle that took two astronauts into orbit!
Well, technically yes...

Edit: Must read whole of thread....
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Old 6th January 2021, 03:33 PM   #96
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Starship Skip

About 30 minutes ago (22:09 GMT), SN-9 was test-fired on the pad at SpaceX Boca Chica Launch Facility. Live feed:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The dinged fin has been panel-beaten back into shape and the seams welded up nicely.

There is a NOTAM (NOTice to AirMen, basically an air space restriction) in place for the 8th through to the 11th, suggesting an attempt to launch SN-9 as early as this Friday. I don't think anything is set in stone yet, or if it is I haven't been able to find it. But the conventional wisdom is that this will be pretty-much a repeat of the SN-8 flight with aspirations to stick the landing this time.

SN-10 and SN-11 are both in the assembly bay at the moment so again, there will likely be a quick turnaround regardless of the outcome of the SN-9 flight.
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Old 6th January 2021, 03:58 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by cow_cat View Post
About 30 minutes ago (22:09 GMT), SN-9 was test-fired on the pad at SpaceX Boca Chica Launch Facility. Live feed:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The dinged fin has been panel-beaten back into shape and the seams welded up nicely.
I thought I read somewhere that they pinched the fin off SN10.
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Old 8th January 2021, 12:21 AM   #98
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The genius of using stainless steel. Got a problem with that panel? Hey, get the panel beaters out here and bash it back into shape.
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Old 11th January 2021, 06:02 PM   #99
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The first time you'll see someone banging a rocket with a hammer, but probably not the last.
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Old 11th January 2021, 08:20 PM   #100
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No static fire today due to an overturned concrete truck in one direction and a beached fishing vessel in the other!
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Old 25th January 2021, 12:12 PM   #101
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So SN-09 should be carrying out its hop in the next couple of days, could be today if the wind drops:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtGutb1R5cQ
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Old 25th January 2021, 12:40 PM   #102
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There have been a few static fires and it seems some problems with fuel pressures but it seems they are ready to try again. Today for the next 5 hours, or the next 2 days if things don't go well today.

Edit - scrubbed for today because of high winds.
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Old 25th January 2021, 01:23 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The genius of using stainless steel. Got a problem with that panel? Hey, get the panel beaters out here and bash it back into shape.
It also makes heat shielding simpler. Stainless steel can withstand much higher temperatures than aluminum or carbon fiber without losing structural strength, so you can make up a lot of the weight lost to steel being heavier by not needing thermal tiles.
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Old 26th January 2021, 06:37 AM   #104
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So how long before they can recreate the Bird1 scene in You Only Live Twice?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qixtjMoMUA
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Old 26th January 2021, 02:46 PM   #105
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Elon has tweeted that they are hoping for FAA approval for a flight tomorrow. Soviet capsule capture yet to be determined.
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Old 30th January 2021, 12:02 PM   #106
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I guess there will be no launch for today, still some issues with federal permits.

But while waiting to get permits to launch SN9 they put SN10 on the pad today. Two of them side by side, looks pretty cool.

SpaceX Nerdlecam (Youtube link but I can't get the normal YT embed thing to work, maybe because it is a live cam)
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Old 2nd February 2021, 02:25 AM   #107
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Rumour that the FAA is not happy with the SN8 flight. Elon didn't let on about all the risks involved or something.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 03:04 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Rumour that the FAA is not happy with the SN8 flight. Elon didn't let on about all the risks involved or something.
There was an engine change. FAA didn't like it because engine changes have to have special safety checks and protocols (or something, don't ask me the details). Seems a bit strange to me - an engine is an engine. Airline change engines on aircraft all the time, and it doesn't seem to attract a lot of attention.

I think the FAA are poorly equipped to deal with all this. Between SpaceX, ULA, Virgin and Orbital ATK (now Northrop-Grumman) and with Blue Origin soon to join, and Rocketlab opening their new launch facility at Wallops, there could be upwards of 50 launches per year. The FAA's space division are just not set up deal with the launch cadence of modern rocketry.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 11:15 AM   #109
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There has been a few days of will-they-won't-they, but it looks like Elon and the FAA have sorted out their differences and there might even be an attempt at a flight today! Since last Thursday there has been no TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) granted, but today there is. Most importantly, SN9's flaps have finally been extended!

I prefer the LabPadre feed of the launch pad because there is little-to-no talking going on, but the pictures and text are all that is needed to be known. At the moment, there is a lovely view of SN9 and SN10 next to each other as SN9 is prepared for launch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5l9ZxsG9M
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Old 2nd February 2021, 01:12 PM   #110
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About three minutes out from flight time, if all goes to plan...
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Old 2nd February 2021, 01:29 PM   #111
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Spoiler alert - all did not go to plan

I only saw 1 engine relight on the way down, with a touchdown slightly less controlled than SN8, and a similar result. Once again, great explosion and good telemetry.

Hope SN10 wasn't damaged and they can light that one soon.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 01:40 PM   #112
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Didn't actually get as close to landing as 8, I'd say. But otherwise looked very good. After the RUD there was a shot of a bit of light debris fluttering down the side of Ten. Probably wouldn't be damaging.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 06:03 PM   #113
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Old 2nd February 2021, 06:08 PM   #114
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep, and what happens when you assume?
https://xkcd.com/169/
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Old 2nd February 2021, 06:34 PM   #115
arthwollipot
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Was this another "seven out of eight criteria for success were met" situation?

I'll catch up with Scott Manley tonight, undoubtedly.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 07:22 PM   #116
3point14
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep, and what happens when you assume?
By all the gods in christendom, I hate that aphorism. Not only is it trite as ****, it also doesn't actually work.
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Old 2nd February 2021, 08:06 PM   #117
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According to Benny Hill, you make an ass out of you and me.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 02:56 PM   #118
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SN 10 has had one aborted attempt but is trying again within the hour. Bets on the outcome? More RUD, or great success?
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Old 3rd March 2021, 04:19 PM   #119
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Well, it (SN10) went up, came down and landed.

It didn't* blow up.

Seems like the landing legs didn't deploy, it is leaning and looks to be a little bit on fire.

Sometimes those revolutionary things come in incremental steps. This counts.


ETA: I posted too soon. It just blew up, a few minutes after landing. Had to edit the post with a bit of selective strikethrough.

Last edited by crescent; 3rd March 2021 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 04:36 PM   #120
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How many tries was it before an F9 landed successfully and safely? More than three, IIRC.
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