The Mystery of the Franklin Expedition: Death in the Ice - Page 2

Nakani · 4th December 2019, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Not necessarily. Recent news item in the Geographical, together with some interesting pictures of the mess table, claims there is hope the papers contained within Captain Crozier's desk inside HMS Terror are well-preserved:

For some reason I was thinking it was a lot deeper. This does seem doable.

Quote:

This could be quite exciting because part of the raison d'etre of these expeditions was to meticulously note all of the flora and fauna seen. It follows Crozier may have equally charted the last days of his ship.

Day1. Oh bother, it seems we are still stuck in the ice
Day2. Waiting for ice to shift
Day3. Promised crew, ice will move
...
Day34. Crew crestfallen

Vixen · 5th December 2019, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Nakani

For some reason I was thinking it was a lot deeper. This does seem doable.

Day1. Oh bother, it seems we are still stuck in the ice
Day2. Waiting for ice to shift
Day3. Promised crew, ice will move
...
Day34. Crew crestfallen

I'm hoping for drama along the lines of:

Day 34 Locked in my cabin for the 29th day. The crew came for the officers one by one. The cutlery was sharpened and several large urns were filled with water for boiling. Thankfully, the last match was too sodden to light and I escaped being the dish of the day by the skin of my teeth. Yes, the skin from my teeth was to be the garnish. So now I have a heavy chest barricading my door. I have just two bottles of port left and no food. So to whom it may concern, farewell and adieu, goodbye to all in merrie Englande and say hello to my Mum.xxx

Nakani · 7th December 2019, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

I'm hoping for drama along the lines of:

Day 34 Locked in my cabin for the 29th day. The crew came for the officers one by one. The cutlery was sharpened and several large urns were filled with water for boiling. Thankfully, the last match was too sodden to light and I escaped being the dish of the day by the skin of my teeth. Yes, the skin from my teeth was to be the garnish. So now I have a heavy chest barricading my door. I have just two bottles of port left and no food. So to whom it may concern, farewell and adieu, goodbye to all in merrie Englande and say hello to my Mum.xxx

I had a full journal set to post, although hilarious, it seemed kind of disrespectful. As someone who spends a lot of time out on the land. I have had plans change and have been inconvenienced. I have empathy for those men and the hardships that killed them. I am curious about the limits a person can go to. It is not how they suffered that interests me, it's how they tried to live, against the odds, that is what intrigues me.

8enotto · 7th December 2019, 07:42 PM

Desperate times call for like measures and it is equally possible everything burnable was to try to camp at night. They had to be aware of freezing to death.
I would love to read the contents of a ships journal, but odds of one being found don't seem good.

My odd question is how did they not make contact with native Inuit and try to survive among them? It would have been the surest way to survive.

SpitfireIX · 7th December 2019, 08:07 PM

I recall reading somewhere that they did try, but the Inuit avoided them out of fear of not having enough resources to support a large group of shipwrecked sailors.

Skeptical Greg · 8th December 2019, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

No but it's got some tall ship stuff, which is always fascinating.

I belong to a model ship building forum and a member there created a well documented model of Terror.

HMS Terror by E&T

Not long after, a company that develops model ship kits, produced a kit based on the work of the modeler mentioned above.

1:65 HMS Terror from OcCre

Someone once asked " Why a model of Terror, when Erebus was the flagship of the expedition? "

I suggested that Terror sounds cooler than Erebus..

Nakani · 11th December 2019, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by 8enotto

snip..
My odd question is how did they not make contact with native Inuit and try to survive among them? It would have been the surest way to survive.

I would wager, it was British pride that killed those men.

Trebuchet · 11th December 2019, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Nakani

I would wager, it was British pride that killed those men.

See also: Robert Falcon Scott.

Pacal · 3rd February 2020, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

I read a book about this. First, Franklin was a rich, entitled moron. Despite barely surviving land and sea expeditions (during which he complained the whole time), he insisted upon returning.

The ships became locked in the ice, having made almost no headway after having been locked in the ice the previous year. Erebus was crushed by shifting ice sufficiently for the crew to abandon it and take up on the Terror. Then they just ran out of food or, more importantly, vitamin C (which degrades over time so had to be found fresh).

At some point, the crew chose to walk to land and to hunt. They didn't do either very well. There was nothing to hunt because, you know, ice. So they took to doing what other crews had done before them - cannibalizing the dead. This has shown up in the historical records through first-hand accounts and evidence of neatly sawed bones (rather than shattered).

This did not help them. According to one Inuit story, they remembered seeing a large white man sitting on a hill, and then putting his head down and dying. The Inuit at the time had no concept of personal possessions, so they may well have raided some of the camps for materials and never thought about the historical value of anything.

The chances are very good that, if Franklin's journals survived the death of the crew, the Inuit used them to fuel fires or wipe their butts or lots of other things that destroyed them forever.

Two things cemented Franklin as a hero to the British: 1) His widow campaigned endlessly to have him declared to have found the Northwest Passage on the very flimsiest of pretense; and 2) She was careful never to let a word get out about the cannibalism, which definitely happened.

Once again, I read a book.

The Erebus was not crushed in the ice. It has in fact been found almost completely intact, just off the mainland. Further the Terror was found a few years later, again almost intact.

Vixen · 19th December 2021, 09:50 AM

Update on HMS Terror: Parks Canada have released a short video of the rooms inside the ship as filmed by divers

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...-time-25731308

Gord_in_Toronto · 19th December 2021, 10:05 AM

Or:
https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/lhn-nhs/nu/e...te-summer-2019

If you want a direct link without The Mirror getting hits.

bruto · 24th December 2021, 02:31 PM

For those interested in more of the susequent story, Elisha Kane, leader of one of the expeditions sent to find Franklin, wrote a two volume account of his own adventure, which also was filled with lovely and dramatic woodcuts. Worth looking for if in the mood, it was a big seller in its day, and I think it has been reprinted.

The novelist Andrea Barrett also wrote a nice fictional account of such a journey called Voyage of the Narwhal that those liking such stories might enjoy.

Skeptical Greg · 29th December 2021, 05:09 PM

For those who have an interest, I frequent a ship modeling forum where a member developed plans and a model of Terror from an extensive amount of research..

HMS Terror by E&T - Scale 1:48

Blog here: Building HMS Terror

After he completed his model, a kit developer. OCCRE, marketed a kit based on his plans and work..

HMSD Terror kit..

5th December 2019, 12:56 AM	#42
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 29,422	Originally Posted by Nakani For some reason I was thinking it was a lot deeper. This does seem doable. Day1. Oh bother, it seems we are still stuck in the ice Day2. Waiting for ice to shift Day3. Promised crew, ice will move ... Day34. Crew crestfallen I'm hoping for drama along the lines of: Day 34 Locked in my cabin for the 29th day. The crew came for the officers one by one. The cutlery was sharpened and several large urns were filled with water for boiling. Thankfully, the last match was too sodden to light and I escaped being the dish of the day by the skin of my teeth. Yes, the skin from my teeth was to be the garnish. So now I have a heavy chest barricading my door. I have just two bottles of port left and no food. So to whom it may concern, farewell and adieu, goodbye to all in merrie Englande and say hello to my Mum.xxx
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

7th December 2019, 08:07 PM	#45
SpitfireIX Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Location: Niceville, Florida, USA Posts: 5,417	I recall reading somewhere that they did try, but the Inuit avoided them out of fear of not having enough resources to support a large group of shipwrecked sailors.
	__________________ "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Carl Schurz

8th December 2019, 07:55 PM	#46
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' . Posts: 18,167	Originally Posted by Belz... No but it's got some tall ship stuff, which is always fascinating. I belong to a model ship building forum and a member there created a well documented model of Terror. HMS Terror by E&T Not long after, a company that develops model ship kits, produced a kit based on the work of the modeler mentioned above. 1:65 HMS Terror from OcCre Someone once asked " Why a model of Terror, when Erebus was the flagship of the expedition? " I suggested that Terror sounds cooler than Erebus..
	__________________ ‘Trust in Allah but tie up your camel.’ Last edited by Skeptical Greg; 8th December 2019 at 08:00 PM.

11th December 2019, 06:19 PM	#48
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 34,461	Originally Posted by Nakani I would wager, it was British pride that killed those men. See also: Robert Falcon Scott.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

19th December 2021, 09:50 AM	#50
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 29,422	Update on HMS Terror: Parks Canada have released a short video of the rooms inside the ship as filmed by divers https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...-time-25731308
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

4th December 2019, 09:48 PM	#41
Nakani Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Acho Dene Koe Posts: 1,014	Originally Posted by Vixen Not necessarily. Recent news item in the Geographical, together with some interesting pictures of the mess table, claims there is hope the papers contained within Captain Crozier's desk inside HMS Terror are well-preserved: For some reason I was thinking it was a lot deeper. This does seem doable. Quote: This could be quite exciting because part of the raison d'etre of these expeditions was to meticulously note all of the flora and fauna seen. It follows Crozier may have equally charted the last days of his ship. Day1. Oh bother, it seems we are still stuck in the ice Day2. Waiting for ice to shift Day3. Promised crew, ice will move ... Day34. Crew crestfallen

7th December 2019, 12:35 PM	#43
Nakani Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Acho Dene Koe Posts: 1,014	Originally Posted by Vixen I'm hoping for drama along the lines of: Day 34 Locked in my cabin for the 29th day. The crew came for the officers one by one. The cutlery was sharpened and several large urns were filled with water for boiling. Thankfully, the last match was too sodden to light and I escaped being the dish of the day by the skin of my teeth. Yes, the skin from my teeth was to be the garnish. So now I have a heavy chest barricading my door. I have just two bottles of port left and no food. So to whom it may concern, farewell and adieu, goodbye to all in merrie Englande and say hello to my Mum.xxx I had a full journal set to post, although hilarious, it seemed kind of disrespectful. As someone who spends a lot of time out on the land. I have had plans change and have been inconvenienced. I have empathy for those men and the hardships that killed them. I am curious about the limits a person can go to. It is not how they suffered that interests me, it's how they tried to live, against the odds, that is what intrigues me.

7th December 2019, 07:42 PM	#44
8enotto Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Mexico Posts: 2,511	Desperate times call for like measures and it is equally possible everything burnable was to try to camp at night. They had to be aware of freezing to death. I would love to read the contents of a ships journal, but odds of one being found don't seem good. My odd question is how did they not make contact with native Inuit and try to survive among them? It would have been the surest way to survive.

11th December 2019, 05:58 PM	#47
Nakani Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Acho Dene Koe Posts: 1,014	Originally Posted by 8enotto snip.. My odd question is how did they not make contact with native Inuit and try to survive among them? It would have been the surest way to survive. I would wager, it was British pride that killed those men.

3rd February 2020, 02:49 PM	#49
Pacal Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,368	Originally Posted by Loss Leader I read a book about this. First, Franklin was a rich, entitled moron. Despite barely surviving land and sea expeditions (during which he complained the whole time), he insisted upon returning. The ships became locked in the ice, having made almost no headway after having been locked in the ice the previous year. Erebus was crushed by shifting ice sufficiently for the crew to abandon it and take up on the Terror. Then they just ran out of food or, more importantly, vitamin C (which degrades over time so had to be found fresh). At some point, the crew chose to walk to land and to hunt. They didn't do either very well. There was nothing to hunt because, you know, ice. So they took to doing what other crews had done before them - cannibalizing the dead. This has shown up in the historical records through first-hand accounts and evidence of neatly sawed bones (rather than shattered). This did not help them. According to one Inuit story, they remembered seeing a large white man sitting on a hill, and then putting his head down and dying. The Inuit at the time had no concept of personal possessions, so they may well have raided some of the camps for materials and never thought about the historical value of anything. The chances are very good that, if Franklin's journals survived the death of the crew, the Inuit used them to fuel fires or wipe their butts or lots of other things that destroyed them forever. Two things cemented Franklin as a hero to the British: 1) His widow campaigned endlessly to have him declared to have found the Northwest Passage on the very flimsiest of pretense; and 2) She was careful never to let a word get out about the cannibalism, which definitely happened. Once again, I read a book. The Erebus was not crushed in the ice. It has in fact been found almost completely intact, just off the mainland. Further the Terror was found a few years later, again almost intact.

19th December 2021, 10:05 AM	#51
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,731	Or: https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/lhn-nhs/nu/e...te-summer-2019 If you want a direct link without The Mirror getting hits.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

24th December 2021, 02:31 PM	#52
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 32,811	For those interested in more of the susequent story, Elisha Kane, leader of one of the expeditions sent to find Franklin, wrote a two volume account of his own adventure, which also was filled with lovely and dramatic woodcuts. Worth looking for if in the mood, it was a big seller in its day, and I think it has been reprinted. The novelist Andrea Barrett also wrote a nice fictional account of such a journey called Voyage of the Narwhal that those liking such stories might enjoy.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) "There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)