Build More Houses - Page 4

SuburbanTurkey · 6th June 2022, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So now the things the Left are trying to politically demonize are:

1) The Police
2) The Suburbs
3) Cars

What's next apple pie and baseball?

More and more the liberal political mindset seems to be "Everything Americana is bad."

"Everyone crowd into MEGACITYONE like we're living the good Judge Dredd movie" is some dystopian nonsense to most Americans.

I'm not sure why you're so focused on the suburbs, the context here seems almost entirely focused on the urban core, where the impact of the housing shortage is most acute.

The party is free to continue to bury their head in the sand, but that doesn't make the real material issues that deeply motivate the public go away. People notice that their rents are rapidly going up or that they will never be able to buy a home.

JoeMorgue · 6th June 2022, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm not sure why you're so focused on the suburbs, the context here seems almost entirely focused on the urban core.

The only place that exists for Liberals, which is a problem.

SuburbanTurkey · 6th June 2022, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The only place that exists for Liberals, which is a problem.

Other than whining, what exactly are you proposing?

Do you contest that the situation in California (low density sprawl with out of control cost of living) is a problem?

JoeMorgue · 6th June 2022, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Other than whining, what exactly are you proposing?

Not demonizing people who want to live in detached housing.

SuburbanTurkey · 6th June 2022, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Not demonizing people who want to live in detached housing.

NIMBYs aren't demonized because they want to live in detached housing. They're demonized because they feel it's their right to use the law to prevent ordinary market forces from providing housing where housing is needed. They want to make it impossible to build anything but sprawling single family plots in the middle of major urban areas. It's totally asinine and the result is an absolute disaster for the entire community.

There are huge swaths of this country where single family housing is readily available and is not in any danger.

What do you propose to solve the housing supply crisis that doesn't involve building more housing where people need to live? Or do you deny there is a crisis at all, and the current state of affairs needs no correction?

ahhell · 6th June 2022, 07:55 AM

There are some progressives that demonize the burbs, I don't see any of that in this thread. Most of the demonizing is of the rich urbanites' nimbyism, who for the most part identify as liberal or progressive.

That being said, there are good and bad suburbs. Those built from 50s through 90s are mostly bad. Big houses on big lots, not very bikeable or walkable, which is mostly bad for the kids. More recent burbs are better, built more like neighbors were prior to WWII. Smallish lots (though big by pre-war standards) so, fairly dense, houses with porches and right up on the streets. No cul-de-sacs, plenty of parks.

This is the US anyway. For the more conservative out there, bikability isn't about some crunchy hippy enviromental nonsense, its good for kids, more freedom, more exercise.

ponderingturtle · 6th June 2022, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Not demonizing people who want to live in detached housing.

And of course those who want to keep affordable housing out of their town.

GodMark2 · 6th June 2022, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And of course those who want to keep ~~affordable housing~~ poor people out of their town.

fixed your typo

Dr. Keith · 6th June 2022, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So now the things the Left are trying to politically demonize are:

1) The Police
2) The Suburbs
3) Cars

What's next apple pie and baseball?

More and more the liberal political mindset seems to be "Everything Americana is bad."

"Everyone crowd into MEGACITYONE like we're living in the good Judge Dredd movie" is some dystopian nonsense to most Americans.

I heard someone at Starbucks badmouthing Hall & Oats.

lionking · 6th June 2022, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

First paragraph of the article lists her bona fides

I wish people would stop linking paywalled sites.

ponderingturtle · 13th June 2022, 08:33 AM

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/11039...irst-time-ever

"Rents across U.S. rise above $2,000 a month for the first time ever"

dudalb · 13th June 2022, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

SF is not unique in being a space constrained city. The obvious direction to build is up, but there is extremely effective advocacy to zone out denser forms of residential building. NIMBYs are extremely effective in preventing low density housing areas from building up.

Huge swaths of the city have a building height limit of 40 ft. It's not a complicated mystery what is causing the housing crisis there.

The irony is that San Francisco would lose alot of it's charm if it became one solid block of high rises.

dudalb · 13th June 2022, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So now the things the Left are trying to politically demonize are:

1) The Police
2) The Suburbs
3) Cars

What's next apple pie and baseball?

More and more the liberal political mindset seems to be "Everything Americana is bad."

"Everyone crowd into MEGACITYONE like we're living in the good Judge Dredd movie" is some dystopian nonsense to most Americans.

I would not says the Dems are, but the Progressive faction of the Dems are because these are standard phobias to left wing intellectuals (and have been for a long time)...and the majority of Progs consider themselves to be Left Wing Intellectuals.

6th June 2022, 07:03 AM	#121
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So now the things the Left are trying to politically demonize are: 1) The Police 2) The Suburbs 3) Cars What's next apple pie and baseball? More and more the liberal political mindset seems to be "Everything Americana is bad." "Everyone crowd into MEGACITYONE like we're living the good Judge Dredd movie" is some dystopian nonsense to most Americans. I'm not sure why you're so focused on the suburbs, the context here seems almost entirely focused on the urban core, where the impact of the housing shortage is most acute. The party is free to continue to bury their head in the sand, but that doesn't make the real material issues that deeply motivate the public go away. People notice that their rents are rapidly going up or that they will never be able to buy a home.
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 6th June 2022 at 07:05 AM.

6th June 2022, 07:04 AM	#122
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 39,958	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm not sure why you're so focused on the suburbs, the context here seems almost entirely focused on the urban core. The only place that exists for Liberals, which is a problem.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

6th June 2022, 07:09 AM	#124
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 39,958	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Other than whining, what exactly are you proposing? Not demonizing people who want to live in detached housing.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

6th June 2022, 07:12 AM	#125
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Not demonizing people who want to live in detached housing. NIMBYs aren't demonized because they want to live in detached housing. They're demonized because they feel it's their right to use the law to prevent ordinary market forces from providing housing where housing is needed. They want to make it impossible to build anything but sprawling single family plots in the middle of major urban areas. It's totally asinine and the result is an absolute disaster for the entire community. There are huge swaths of this country where single family housing is readily available and is not in any danger. What do you propose to solve the housing supply crisis that doesn't involve building more housing where people need to live? Or do you deny there is a crisis at all, and the current state of affairs needs no correction?
	Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 6th June 2022 at 07:14 AM.

6th June 2022, 07:55 AM	#126
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 4,433	There are some progressives that demonize the burbs, I don't see any of that in this thread. Most of the demonizing is of the rich urbanites' nimbyism, who for the most part identify as liberal or progressive. That being said, there are good and bad suburbs. Those built from 50s through 90s are mostly bad. Big houses on big lots, not very bikeable or walkable, which is mostly bad for the kids. More recent burbs are better, built more like neighbors were prior to WWII. Smallish lots (though big by pre-war standards) so, fairly dense, houses with porches and right up on the streets. No cul-de-sacs, plenty of parks. This is the US anyway. For the more conservative out there, bikability isn't about some crunchy hippy enviromental nonsense, its good for kids, more freedom, more exercise.
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 4,433

6th June 2022, 07:06 AM	#123
SuburbanTurkey Guest Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Null Posts: 15,479	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue The only place that exists for Liberals, which is a problem. Other than whining, what exactly are you proposing? Do you contest that the situation in California (low density sprawl with out of control cost of living) is a problem?

6th June 2022, 09:09 AM	#127
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,543	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Not demonizing people who want to live in detached housing. And of course those who want to keep affordable housing out of their town.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

6th June 2022, 01:23 PM	#128
GodMark2 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 2,255	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle And of course those who want to keep ~~affordable housing~~ poor people out of their town. fixed your typo
	__________________ Knowing that we do not know, it does not necessarily follow that we can not know.

6th June 2022, 01:34 PM	#129
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 25,050	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So now the things the Left are trying to politically demonize are: 1) The Police 2) The Suburbs 3) Cars What's next apple pie and baseball? More and more the liberal political mindset seems to be "Everything Americana is bad." "Everyone crowd into MEGACITYONE like we're living in the good Judge Dredd movie" is some dystopian nonsense to most Americans. I heard someone at Starbucks badmouthing Hall & Oats.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

6th June 2022, 07:07 PM	#130
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,893	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey First paragraph of the article lists her bona fides I wish people would stop linking paywalled sites.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

13th June 2022, 08:33 AM	#131
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 52,543	https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/11039...irst-time-ever "Rents across U.S. rise above $2,000 a month for the first time ever"
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

13th June 2022, 01:08 PM	#132
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,448	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey SF is not unique in being a space constrained city. The obvious direction to build is up, but there is extremely effective advocacy to zone out denser forms of residential building. NIMBYs are extremely effective in preventing low density housing areas from building up. Huge swaths of the city have a building height limit of 40 ft. It's not a complicated mystery what is causing the housing crisis there. The irony is that San Francisco would lose alot of it's charm if it became one solid block of high rises.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

13th June 2022, 01:12 PM	#133
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,448	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So now the things the Left are trying to politically demonize are: 1) The Police 2) The Suburbs 3) Cars What's next apple pie and baseball? More and more the liberal political mindset seems to be "Everything Americana is bad." "Everyone crowd into MEGACITYONE like we're living in the good Judge Dredd movie" is some dystopian nonsense to most Americans. I would not says the Dems are, but the Progressive faction of the Dems are because these are standard phobias to left wing intellectuals (and have been for a long time)...and the majority of Progs consider themselves to be Left Wing Intellectuals.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.