|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
1st June 2017, 01:17 AM | #1 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
Experimental evidence for a flat earth.
Given the now lengthy threads on the subject of the earth being flat, and thewholesoul's insistence on being shown experimental evidence for a spherical earth and all that that entails, my question, then, is this:
Have any experiments been performed showing that the earth is flat? If so, what has the reaction been from the wider scientific community? If not, what experiments could be done? |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
1st June 2017, 01:38 AM | #2 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,607
|
The last video I saw on it (I have no link, a friend was showing me at work) had a few experiments. There were the old ones to produce evidence of the aether, misrepresented, and a guy measuring long structures (bridges, railways, etc) to show they were a constant level, where as a flat object on a curved world would be askew. Unfortunately their measurements were all taken relative to sea level, not realising that sea level is constant around a curved world.
|
__________________
@tomhodden Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW). |
|
1st June 2017, 01:47 AM | #3 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dundee
Posts: 3,580
|
To be clear, the current lengthy thread is on the earth being stationary, not flat.
|
__________________
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" Isaac Asimov Not all cults are bad - I've joined a cult of niceness |
|
1st June 2017, 01:50 AM | #4 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
Perhaps, but this thread is about it being flat:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post11861516 |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
1st June 2017, 02:03 AM | #5 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,950
|
If I drop a ball, it falls down and stays there. If the world were curved, it'd never stop rolling.
|
1st June 2017, 02:37 AM | #6 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,296
|
|
__________________
What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
|
1st June 2017, 04:19 AM | #7 |
Mostly harmless
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nor Flanden
Posts: 38,373
|
Bedford Level experiment:
Quote:
See also the flat Earth wager relating to the same experiments:
Quote:
|
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky |
|
1st June 2017, 04:44 AM | #8 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
There are several sciencey-sounding experiments in this video (3.42 minutes only!).
I don't have the background to comment on whether they are valid or not: perhaps a more learned member could have a look? Mentioned are Michelsom-Morley; the Sagnac experiment; the Lorenz Contraction and Airy's Failure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrM191t_nc |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
1st June 2017, 07:51 AM | #9 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,244
|
|
1st June 2017, 09:14 AM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
Michelsom-Morley is often misused by Flat Earthers and Stationary Earthers. They do this by lying about what the experiment was supposed to be testing. They claim it was to test the motion of the planet and that it failed to show anything. In reality it was to try and locate the mythical Aether, the medium that it was though that light needed to have to propagate through. The experiment was designed to detect the drag on the Aether that the Earth created as it passed through it, just as an object passing through a fliud does. The results were that it failed to find any evidence of the existence of Aether, something we now understand as we learned that light is a self propagating electromagnetic waveform and so doesn't need any medium to travel through, not that the Earth wasn't moving.
A quick check also indicates that the Sagnac experiment and Airy's Luminiferous aether were also experiments that were attempting to locate a Aether medium. That they failed was more to do with that Aether doesn't exists that anything else. |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
1st June 2017, 09:14 AM | #11 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
|
The Michelson-Morley experiment, the Sagnac interferometer and Airy's Failure are all experiments that were intended to investigate whether the aether exists; the first and third demonstrated that it doesn't, while the second was originally believed to demonstrate that it does but was later explained successfully by General Relativity. The Lorentz-Fitzgerald Contraction is the observed shortening of objects in their direction of motion when travelling at speeds close to the speed of light relative to the observer. All four are very significant results or hypotheses in the development of Special and General Relativity, but none appear to me to have any bearing on determining the curvature of the Earth's surface. I haven't tried to watch the video yet; is it a serious scientific discussion of relativity, or some nutter raving on about how he's the only person in the world to realise that Einstein's theories of relativity are charades foisted on the world by scientists to further their unspecified, but definitely evil, secret agenda and this is why the Earth is flat? If the latter, I'll pass, thanks.
Dave |
__________________
There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
|
1st June 2017, 10:26 AM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 10,589
|
|
1st June 2017, 10:35 AM | #13 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
A useful simple project to help determine the global nature of Planet Earth.
From HERE
Originally Posted by sciencebuddies.org
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
2nd June 2017, 12:56 AM | #14 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
Thanks for this: it does rather undermine the so-called scientific basis for a flat earth-proving experiment.
You can be reassured that there is little to no raving in the video: this is why I chose it. Sure, it does mention that Einstein was part of the conspiracy to hush up the uncomfortable results proving a flat earth, but the tone is relatively (pun intended) sane. Where, I wonder, is thewholesoul? I would have thought he would be all over this with a huge list of the experiments either he himself has done, or that others have done and he can link to. Most peculiar. |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
2nd June 2017, 09:04 AM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
I keep clicking on the flat/stationary earth threads then wondering why I did that. One of the things I don't get is tws's insistence on experiment. Apparently he thinks that's the only way science works. He's wrong, of course, observation is just as important if not moreso.
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
2nd June 2017, 09:11 AM | #16 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
|
|
__________________
There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
|
2nd June 2017, 09:20 AM | #17 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,095
|
Every time I've looked around from the launch pads at KSC and the Cape, the Earth looks pretty flat. So that's evidence.
|
2nd June 2017, 09:21 AM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
gaseous proof, the earth is flat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM9S4QiEHEY
10 minute you can't get back, but it boils down to - flatulence. The earth is flat because of Venus and Uranus... or something, when you spell these planets backwards, SUNEV, SUNARU, you get sun... related to the sun, and gas, and the earth is flat, it is flatulence. |
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK |
|
2nd June 2017, 09:25 AM | #19 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
|
|
__________________
There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
|
2nd June 2017, 09:27 AM | #20 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,950
|
|
3rd June 2017, 01:13 AM | #21 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
This is the main reason for my starting this thread. It should, after all, work both ways. tws insists on experimental evidence, even including the name of the experimenter, but has not yet, as far as I can tell, presented a single, solitary experimant showing the earth is flat, or stationary. (I think these things go together, btw: correct me if I'm wrong).
I wonder, then, in the absence of what he considers proof, how tws came to his somewhat left-field conclusions? It is unfortunate, then, that he seems to be avoiding this thread like the plague. |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
3rd June 2017, 04:05 AM | #22 |
Waiting for the Worms
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Swansea UK
Posts: 1,798
|
|
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit |
|
3rd June 2017, 07:49 AM | #23 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,830
|
Six different satellites, six different images showing a full Earth disk, all taken at roughly the same time (in infra-red).
All of them look flat! Which is real??!?!??11? |
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
|
3rd June 2017, 08:40 AM | #24 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,983
|
|
__________________
"The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen |
|
4th June 2017, 01:15 AM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
|
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
4th June 2017, 05:35 AM | #26 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,558
|
1.) find a place where you can see a nice sunset
2.) grab a ladder 3.) sit on the ground (preferable with a love interest and a bottle of wine) and watch the sun go down 4.) climb the ladder: if you can see the sun again, the earth is not flat. |
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
4th June 2017, 05:38 PM | #27 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Inland NW
Posts: 4,942
|
|
__________________
Normal in a weird way. |
|
5th June 2017, 12:31 AM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
|
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
5th June 2017, 12:07 PM | #29 |
Spectral Challenger
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,602
|
Well, here's your argument for a flat earth, quoted verbatim:
Quote:
You got it? No, neither did I, but apparently it's all in the CAPS. Let me try again:
Quote:
|
__________________
Flat Earth Theory: The unfortunate result of ordering pizza to satisfy munchies after smoking way too much weed to bring you down from that hectic acid trip. |
|
5th June 2017, 02:00 PM | #30 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,530
|
Is it conceded by flat earthers that the Universe surrounds us so that we see it as though the interior of a *sphere*? If so, then how do they account for the opposite side of this sphere being seen simultaneously by folks far away (as in, for sane folk, on the opposite side of the globe of Earth)?
As you can tell, I've not delved into this flat Earth rubbish in any detail at all. |
8th June 2017, 10:56 AM | #31 |
I say nay!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,892
|
|
__________________
Memento Mori |
|
8th June 2017, 02:17 PM | #32 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2,023
|
If the Earth is round, then every movement we make, regardless of direction, would be downhill. Proof. End of thread.
|
8th June 2017, 02:52 PM | #33 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,983
|
|
__________________
"The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen |
|
14th June 2017, 08:27 AM | #34 |
Warning: May Contain Nuts
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Waddinxveen
Posts: 2,853
|
Earth is round. Like a pancake.
|
__________________
See, it isn’t Hitler you’ve gotta hate; that’s not who you’ve gotta watch out for. The Hitlers of the world are very rare. We have to watch out for the people who did it for him, without any questions asked. Normal people who didn’t want to lose their jobs. Those are the people you have to watch out for, and the world’s always been full of them. - Lemmy |
|
14th June 2017, 09:22 AM | #35 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,693
|
I have a four foot spirit level, I laid it on the earth, and yes, the earth is flat.
|
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug Graduate of a liberal arts college! Faster play faster faster play faster |
|
14th June 2017, 08:20 PM | #36 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,594
|
|
__________________
Vote like you’re poor. A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite |
|
14th June 2017, 08:32 PM | #37 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,964
|
|
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
|
15th June 2017, 02:32 AM | #38 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
And there's our experiment.
No-one is falling off the earth in Australia, therefore the earth is flat! QED. thewholesoul: we have done your work for you, but I will kindly allow you to present this conclusive experimental proof to the scientific institution of your choice, as your own work. The Nobel Prize awaits! |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
15th June 2017, 04:55 AM | #39 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,870
|
|
15th June 2017, 05:43 AM | #40 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,693
|
|
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug Graduate of a liberal arts college! Faster play faster faster play faster |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|