[Merged] Apollo "hoax" discussion - continuation thread - Page 14

Hans · 19th December 2013, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Because colors in photographs are always true and unchanged regardless of technology or circumstances.

Jay you're not suggesting that in a mere 40+ years that technology may have gotten better - truly a radical and unsupported contention indeed....lol

JayUtah · 19th December 2013, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Hans

Jay you're not suggesting that in a mere 40+ years that technology may have gotten better - truly a radical and unsupported contention indeed....lol

As equally unsupported a proposition as that Ektachrome film and a CCD might render colors identically in any era. Or any two film types. Or any unequally calibrated CCDs. Or that the Moon is the same color everywhere.

SUSpilot · 19th December 2013, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

As equally unsupported a proposition as that Ektachrome film and a CCD might render colors identically in any era. Or any two film types. Or any unequally calibrated CCDs. Or that the Moon is the same color everywhere.

I once shot a very well received monochrome photo of a snowscape. I broke a lot of rules, shooting up sun with a very short lens. In the print, the snow comes out a very dark gray with lighter highlights.* So Anders, if you saw that image, would you say it doesn't snow in Chicago, and landscape was covered with lava? How something appears on film, or any imaging system, including the human eye, depends on how it's lit.

*A lot of very expensive paper went into the trash getting the print right - the negative was very thin, except for the Sun and sky, which were very dense. I love the digital age!

Anders Lindman · 19th December 2013, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by SUSpilot

So Anders, if you saw that image, would you say it doesn't snow in Chicago, and landscape was covered with lava?

Cherry picking a special case like that is unsustainable. My claim on the other hand is based on a large number of NASA color images of the moon landscape.

Anders Lindman · 19th December 2013, 11:16 PM

The same accusation can be made for my Chang'e 3 claim, that I only cherry picked one special image that happened to look a bit brownish.

So here is another image from Chang'e 3: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph...32968354_2.htm

From: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/...235886501.html

Anders Lindman · 19th December 2013, 11:23 PM

Compare with an artist's rendering of the Chang'e 3 mission: http://i.space.com/images/i/000/034/...jpg?1385823290

http://www.space.com/23965-china-moo...operation.html

The artist was no doubt inspired by the Apollo moon pictures. Totally black-and-white lunar landscape!

SUSpilot · 19th December 2013, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Cherry picking a special case like that is unsustainable. My claim on the other hand is based on a large number of NASA color images of the moon landscape.

It's not cherry picking. My point is that lighting directly affects an image. After all, an overcast sky is blindingly white from above, to take an extreme example.

In this case, the sun angle reflecting from the dust is going to have a huge affect, with different spectra reflected to the camera.

Besides, as Jay mentioned, the Moon is not homogenous.

Finally, as any competent photographer will tell you, getting the true color (whatever that is!) in an image can be a monumental task.

Anders Lindman · 19th December 2013, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by SUSpilot

It's not cherry picking. My point is that lighting directly affects an image. After all, an overcast sky is blindingly white from above, to take an extreme example.

In this case, the sun angle reflecting from the dust is going to have a huge affect, with different spectra reflected to the camera.

Besides, as Jay mentioned, the Moon is not homogenous.

Finally, as any competent photographer will tell you, getting the true color (whatever that is!) in an image can be a monumental task.

Now you have digressed to a straw man argument. You could check this out:

"An unbiased (representative) sample is a set of objects chosen from a complete sample using a selection process that does not depend on the properties of the objects." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29

Corsair 115 · 20th December 2013, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by SUSpilot

How something appears on film, or any imaging system, including the human eye, depends on how it's lit.

^^^ This times a thousand. Anyone who's ever worked in the movie or publishing industries understands this completely.

Fishstick · 20th December 2013, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

^^^ This times a thousand. Anyone who's ever worked in the movie or publishing industries understands this completely.

See also: anyone who's ever shot in RAW mode on dSLR and changed lighting mode from Sunny to Indoor

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Corsair 115

^^^ This times a thousand. Anyone who's ever worked in the movie or publishing industries understands this completely.

The "red" patches on Starfleet uniforms are actually bright fuscia, not red. They only appear red when lit by the studio lighting instruments and photographed with the appropriate equipment.

Lindman's claim is based on colossal ignorance of one of the most well-known facts of photography, digital or chemical.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Fishstick

See also: anyone who's ever shot in RAW mode on dSLR and changed lighting mode from Sunny to Indoor

Or, in the olden days, photographing under tungsten light using daylight film.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 08:16 AM

Sensor calibration and the mixing of filtered wavelengths also explains how the Chinese lander manages to take images with a warm cast while the rover takes images of the same terrain, only with a blue cast. Most post-landing cameras are simple uncalibrated cameras used only to verify landing etc. After the post-landing checkup, the calibrated (but more delicate) scientific data-gathering instruments are deployed, which is why the later, higher-resolution images show a more neutral gray including the subtle coloration seen on the Apollo 70mm color photographs.

phunk · 20th December 2013, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

The same accusation can be made for my Chang'e 3 claim, that I only cherry picked one special image that happened to look a bit brownish.

So here is another image from Chang'e 3: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph...32968354_2.htm

From: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/...235886501.html

That's not a photo of the moon, it's a photo of a tv screen showing a video of the moon. Multiple levels of color inaccuracy.

ETA: Sorry, not a tv screen, a projection screen: http://www.china.org.cn/images/50988.jpg

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by phunk

That's not a photo of the moon, it's a photo of a tv screen showing a video of the moon. Multiple levels of color inaccuracy.

ETA: Sorry, not a tv screen, a projection screen: http://www.china.org.cn/images/50988.jpg

I would like to see higher quality images from China's moon program. Here is another example, but this too is rather fuzzy: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph..._132968354.htm

I haven't found any sharper images yet.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

I would like to see higher quality images from China's moon program. Here is another example, but this too is rather fuzzy: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph..._132968354.htm

I haven't found any sharper images yet.

Do you agree that the photos you initially posted were not true color images?

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Do you agree that the photos you initially posted were not true color images?

I think it was in favor of my claim that the Apollo images have black-and-white lunar landscapes with foreground objects in color. But I admit that more images from the China mission are needed to make a case.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

I think it was in favor of my claim that the Apollo images have black-and-white lunar landscapes with foreground objects in color. But I admit that more images from the China mission are needed to make a case.

Will you please answer my question?

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 10:26 AM

Here is another picture from the China moon mission: http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/imag.../17/436407.jpg

From: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/53...-wu-weiren.htm

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Here is another picture from the China moon mission: http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/imag.../17/436407.jpg

From: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/53...-wu-weiren.htm

Please answer my question. Do you admit that you erred in initially insinuating those initial images as true color images of the lunar surface?

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Please answer my question. Do you admit that you erred in initially insinuating those initial images as true color images of the lunar surface?

No, my claim still stands. And the few other pictures I have found from China mission also support my claim. The general trend is that the moon surface is brownish instead of black-and-white, at least at that location.

threadworm · 20th December 2013, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

I think it was in favor of my claim that the Apollo images have black-and-white lunar landscapes with foreground objects in color.

No.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

No, my claim still stands.

Nonsense. You didn't answer why the Moon was simultaneously orange and blue. It was conclusively proven that they are not true color images of the Moon, but instead suffer from well-known and well-understood problems in photographic rendition of color, especially via happenstance chains of compound photography.

If you continue to hold to your original claim, your argument is pure delusion.

Quote:

The general trend is that the moon surface is brownish instead of black-and-white, at least at that location.

You wrongly believe that all photography will or should depict it as such.

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 11:10 AM

"Chang'e 3 achieved lunar orbit on 6 December 2013[8] and landed on 14 December 2013,[9] becoming the first probe to soft-land on the Moon since Luna 24 in 1976.[10]" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3

That's several days ago! Where are all the high quality images of the lunar landscape from Chang'e 3?

threadworm · 20th December 2013, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

"Chang'e 3 achieved lunar orbit on 6 December 2013[8] and landed on 14 December 2013,[9] becoming the first probe to soft-land on the Moon since Luna 24 in 1976.[10]" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3

That's several days ago! Where are all the high quality images of the lunar landscape from Chang'e 3?

Ask China.

Hans · 20th December 2013, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

No, my claim still stands. And the few other pictures I have found from China mission also support my claim. The general trend is that the moon surface is brownish instead of black-and-white, at least at that location.

You don't have a claim why are you stating you do?

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

That's several days ago! Where are all the high quality images of the lunar landscape from Chang'e 3?

Why do you assume China will release them freely to the world? As you discovered, the initial photographs were photographed by journalists from the TV screens.

How is China's release schedule and policy related to any hoax claims you may be making?

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by threadworm

Ask China.

Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public!

Hans · 20th December 2013, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public!

Or you might be imagining things - what do you think is more probable?

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

How is China's release schedule and policy related to any hoax claims you may be making?

See my previous post.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public!

Because the U.S. government has that much control over China. Guess again.

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Hans

Or you might be imagining things - what do you think is more probable?

Why wouldn't the Chinese government release high quality images from their moon program? That would be great PR publicity for them.

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

See my previous post.

I did. It's ridiculous.

Also, can you explain why the U.S. has released other photos of a "brown" Moon, if it's so dead-set on allegedly hiding that?

Hans · 20th December 2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

See my previous post.

In other words, AL is saying, 'I'm making silly stuff up so don't ask me for specifics'. Just pay attention to me.

lol

JayUtah · 20th December 2013, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Why wouldn't the Chinese government release high quality images from their moon program? That would be great PR publicity for them.

Are you China? If not, then you don't get tell us all what China ought to do.

Your argument so far is simply that China isn't doing what you think they should do. Explain why your personal expectations matter.

SUSpilot · 20th December 2013, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Or, in the olden days, photographing under tungsten light using daylight film.

Then there was the f-stop robbing daylight filter you could use under tungsten lights.

Best part of RAW mode in today's DSLR's is that I can finally get a reasonable color balance under fluorescent lighting. There are so many bulb variants, you'd go crazy trying to get it right, so out came the strobe with the diffuser in the old days.

SUSpilot · 20th December 2013, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Anders Lindman

Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public!

Like the Chinese are going to acquiesce to that?

Anders Lindman · 20th December 2013, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Are you China? If not, then you don't get tell us all what China ought to do.

Your argument so far is simply that China isn't doing what you think they should do. Explain why your personal expectations matter.

We will see. Maybe they will release a whole batch of images later after having gathered and compiled a careful selection.

Hans · 20th December 2013, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Are you China? If not, then you don't get tell us all what China ought to do.

Your argument so far is simply that China isn't doing what you think they should do. Explain why your personal expectations matter.

Maybe some day the ebil gub'mints of the world will realize that the easiest way to not show images of what they are trying to hide on the Moon would be made much easier if they just didn't go there anymore.....

SUSpilot · 20th December 2013, 11:36 AM

Just to give you an idea how subjective this all can be, back in college when I worked in a camera store, we used a pretty high-end lab for a lot of work. The shop's owner took some pictures of his son's junior league hockey team for the parents. Of course, there wasn't a color reference or gray card in the photo (why would you?), and it was before Kodak had color reference bars on the edges of their negative film.

We noticed that as parents ordered prints off the original negative towards the spring and summer, the kids in the image got more and more tan as the year wore on...

19th December 2013, 08:51 PM	#521
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972	Originally Posted by JayUtah Because colors in photographs are always true and unchanged regardless of technology or circumstances. Jay you're not suggesting that in a mere 40+ years that technology may have gotten better - truly a radical and unsupported contention indeed....lol
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972

20th December 2013, 02:16 AM	#529
Corsair 115 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 14,519	Originally Posted by SUSpilot How something appears on film, or any imaging system, including the human eye, depends on how it's lit. ^^^ This times a thousand. Anyone who's ever worked in the movie or publishing industries understands this completely.
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

20th December 2013, 09:28 AM	#534
phunk Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,127	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman The same accusation can be made for my Chang'e 3 claim, that I only cherry picked one special image that happened to look a bit brownish. So here is another image from Chang'e 3: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph...32968354_2.htm From: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/...235886501.html That's not a photo of the moon, it's a photo of a tv screen showing a video of the moon. Multiple levels of color inaccuracy. ETA: Sorry, not a tv screen, a projection screen: http://www.china.org.cn/images/50988.jpg
phunk Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,127	Last edited by phunk; 20th December 2013 at 09:30 AM.

20th December 2013, 10:35 AM	#542
threadworm Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,819	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman I think it was in favor of my claim that the Apollo images have black-and-white lunar landscapes with foreground objects in color. No.
	__________________ Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked

20th December 2013, 10:39 AM	#543
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman No, my claim still stands. Nonsense. You didn't answer why the Moon was simultaneously orange and blue. It was conclusively proven that they are not true color images of the Moon, but instead suffer from well-known and well-understood problems in photographic rendition of color, especially via happenstance chains of compound photography. If you continue to hold to your original claim, your argument is pure delusion. Quote: The general trend is that the moon surface is brownish instead of black-and-white, at least at that location. You wrongly believe that all photography will or should depict it as such.
	Last edited by JayUtah; 20th December 2013 at 10:40 AM.

19th December 2013, 09:06 PM	#522
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Hans Jay you're not suggesting that in a mere 40+ years that technology may have gotten better - truly a radical and unsupported contention indeed....lol As equally unsupported a proposition as that Ektachrome film and a CCD might render colors identically in any era. Or any two film types. Or any unequally calibrated CCDs. Or that the Moon is the same color everywhere.

19th December 2013, 11:03 PM	#523
SUSpilot Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,159	Originally Posted by JayUtah As equally unsupported a proposition as that Ektachrome film and a CCD might render colors identically in any era. Or any two film types. Or any unequally calibrated CCDs. Or that the Moon is the same color everywhere. I once shot a very well received monochrome photo of a snowscape. I broke a lot of rules, shooting up sun with a very short lens. In the print, the snow comes out a very dark gray with lighter highlights.* So Anders, if you saw that image, would you say it doesn't snow in Chicago, and landscape was covered with lava? How something appears on film, or any imaging system, including the human eye, depends on how it's lit. *A lot of very expensive paper went into the trash getting the print right - the negative was very thin, except for the Sun and sky, which were very dense. I love the digital age!

19th December 2013, 11:10 PM	#524
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by SUSpilot So Anders, if you saw that image, would you say it doesn't snow in Chicago, and landscape was covered with lava? Cherry picking a special case like that is unsustainable. My claim on the other hand is based on a large number of NASA color images of the moon landscape.

19th December 2013, 11:16 PM	#525
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	The same accusation can be made for my Chang'e 3 claim, that I only cherry picked one special image that happened to look a bit brownish. So here is another image from Chang'e 3: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph...32968354_2.htm From: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/...235886501.html

19th December 2013, 11:23 PM	#526
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Compare with an artist's rendering of the Chang'e 3 mission: http://i.space.com/images/i/000/034/...jpg?1385823290 http://www.space.com/23965-china-moo...operation.html The artist was no doubt inspired by the Apollo moon pictures. Totally black-and-white lunar landscape!

19th December 2013, 11:23 PM	#527
SUSpilot Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,159	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Cherry picking a special case like that is unsustainable. My claim on the other hand is based on a large number of NASA color images of the moon landscape. It's not cherry picking. My point is that lighting directly affects an image. After all, an overcast sky is blindingly white from above, to take an extreme example. In this case, the sun angle reflecting from the dust is going to have a huge affect, with different spectra reflected to the camera. Besides, as Jay mentioned, the Moon is not homogenous. Finally, as any competent photographer will tell you, getting the true color (whatever that is!) in an image can be a monumental task.

19th December 2013, 11:53 PM	#528
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by SUSpilot It's not cherry picking. My point is that lighting directly affects an image. After all, an overcast sky is blindingly white from above, to take an extreme example. In this case, the sun angle reflecting from the dust is going to have a huge affect, with different spectra reflected to the camera. Besides, as Jay mentioned, the Moon is not homogenous. Finally, as any competent photographer will tell you, getting the true color (whatever that is!) in an image can be a monumental task. Now you have digressed to a straw man argument. You could check this out: "An unbiased (representative) sample is a set of objects chosen from a complete sample using a selection process that does not depend on the properties of the objects." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29

20th December 2013, 05:08 AM	#530
Fishstick Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,603	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 ^^^ This times a thousand. Anyone who's ever worked in the movie or publishing industries understands this completely. See also: anyone who's ever shot in RAW mode on dSLR and changed lighting mode from Sunny to Indoor

20th December 2013, 07:45 AM	#531
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Corsair 115 ^^^ This times a thousand. Anyone who's ever worked in the movie or publishing industries understands this completely. The "red" patches on Starfleet uniforms are actually bright fuscia, not red. They only appear red when lit by the studio lighting instruments and photographed with the appropriate equipment. Lindman's claim is based on colossal ignorance of one of the most well-known facts of photography, digital or chemical.

20th December 2013, 07:53 AM	#532
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Fishstick See also: anyone who's ever shot in RAW mode on dSLR and changed lighting mode from Sunny to Indoor Or, in the olden days, photographing under tungsten light using daylight film.

20th December 2013, 08:16 AM	#533
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Sensor calibration and the mixing of filtered wavelengths also explains how the Chinese lander manages to take images with a warm cast while the rover takes images of the same terrain, only with a blue cast. Most post-landing cameras are simple uncalibrated cameras used only to verify landing etc. After the post-landing checkup, the calibrated (but more delicate) scientific data-gathering instruments are deployed, which is why the later, higher-resolution images show a more neutral gray including the subtle coloration seen on the Apollo 70mm color photographs.

20th December 2013, 09:46 AM	#535
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by phunk That's not a photo of the moon, it's a photo of a tv screen showing a video of the moon. Multiple levels of color inaccuracy. ETA: Sorry, not a tv screen, a projection screen: http://www.china.org.cn/images/50988.jpg I would like to see higher quality images from China's moon program. Here is another example, but this too is rather fuzzy: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph..._132968354.htm I haven't found any sharper images yet.

20th December 2013, 10:07 AM	#536
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman I would like to see higher quality images from China's moon program. Here is another example, but this too is rather fuzzy: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ph..._132968354.htm I haven't found any sharper images yet. Do you agree that the photos you initially posted were not true color images?

20th December 2013, 10:10 AM	#537
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by JayUtah Do you agree that the photos you initially posted were not true color images? I think it was in favor of my claim that the Apollo images have black-and-white lunar landscapes with foreground objects in color. But I admit that more images from the China mission are needed to make a case.

20th December 2013, 10:24 AM	#538
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman I think it was in favor of my claim that the Apollo images have black-and-white lunar landscapes with foreground objects in color. But I admit that more images from the China mission are needed to make a case. Will you please answer my question?

20th December 2013, 10:26 AM	#539
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Here is another picture from the China moon mission: http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/imag.../17/436407.jpg From: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/53...-wu-weiren.htm

20th December 2013, 10:30 AM	#540
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Here is another picture from the China moon mission: http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/imag.../17/436407.jpg From: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/53...-wu-weiren.htm Please answer my question. Do you admit that you erred in initially insinuating those initial images as true color images of the lunar surface?

20th December 2013, 10:35 AM	#541
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by JayUtah Please answer my question. Do you admit that you erred in initially insinuating those initial images as true color images of the lunar surface? No, my claim still stands. And the few other pictures I have found from China mission also support my claim. The general trend is that the moon surface is brownish instead of black-and-white, at least at that location.

20th December 2013, 11:10 AM	#544
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	"Chang'e 3 achieved lunar orbit on 6 December 2013[8] and landed on 14 December 2013,[9] becoming the first probe to soft-land on the Moon since Luna 24 in 1976.[10]" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3 That's several days ago! Where are all the high quality images of the lunar landscape from Chang'e 3?

20th December 2013, 11:16 AM	#545
threadworm Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,819	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman "Chang'e 3 achieved lunar orbit on 6 December 2013[8] and landed on 14 December 2013,[9] becoming the first probe to soft-land on the Moon since Luna 24 in 1976.[10]" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_3 That's several days ago! Where are all the high quality images of the lunar landscape from Chang'e 3? Ask China.
	__________________ Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked

20th December 2013, 11:19 AM	#546
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman No, my claim still stands. And the few other pictures I have found from China mission also support my claim. The general trend is that the moon surface is brownish instead of black-and-white, at least at that location. You don't have a claim why are you stating you do?
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972

20th December 2013, 11:20 AM	#547
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman That's several days ago! Where are all the high quality images of the lunar landscape from Chang'e 3? Why do you assume China will release them freely to the world? As you discovered, the initial photographs were photographed by journalists from the TV screens. How is China's release schedule and policy related to any hoax claims you may be making?

20th December 2013, 11:20 AM	#548
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by threadworm Ask China. Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public!

20th December 2013, 11:22 AM	#549
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public! Or you might be imagining things - what do you think is more probable?
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972

20th December 2013, 11:22 AM	#550
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by JayUtah How is China's release schedule and policy related to any hoax claims you may be making? See my previous post.

20th December 2013, 11:23 AM	#551
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Or the U.S. government has demanded that China should NOT release the images to the public! Because the U.S. government has that much control over China. Guess again.

20th December 2013, 11:24 AM	#552
Anders Lindman Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 13,833	Originally Posted by Hans Or you might be imagining things - what do you think is more probable? Why wouldn't the Chinese government release high quality images from their moon program? That would be great PR publicity for them.

20th December 2013, 11:24 AM	#553
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman See my previous post. I did. It's ridiculous. Also, can you explain why the U.S. has released other photos of a "brown" Moon, if it's so dead-set on allegedly hiding that?

20th December 2013, 11:24 AM	#554
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman See my previous post. In other words, AL is saying, 'I'm making silly stuff up so don't ask me for specifics'. Just pay attention to me. lol
Hans Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,972

20th December 2013, 11:25 AM	#555
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,283	Originally Posted by Anders Lindman Why wouldn't the Chinese government release high quality images from their moon program? That would be great PR publicity for them. Are you China? If not, then you don't get tell us all what China ought to do. Your argument so far is simply that China isn't doing what you think they should do. Explain why your personal expectations matter.