Criminal Charges Against Trump

[Norman Alexander]

Even if Trump doesn't end up in an eight-by-eight with Big Bubba, it is rapidly approaching the situation that there are more lawsuits than years left of his life that he has to contest. So I am pleased that he will see out his days in constant stress from that prospect, and for having to fork out his dwindling ill-gotten gains paying fat-arsed lawyers to try to keep him on the outside. And he will have to keep paying them more and more, because if they slip up and he does go down for a stretch, the odds increase that he will never live long enough to see the crappy gold toilets of Mar-a-Lago ever again. I would love to see his end as a note in the obituaries:

TRUMP, D.J. Died April 1st of cardiac arrest while serving a custodial sentence.

And that's it.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Even if Trump doesn't end up in an eight-by-eight with Big Bubba, it is rapidly approaching the situation that there are more lawsuits than years left of his life that he has to contest. So I am pleased that he will see out his days in constant stress from that prospect, and for having to fork out his dwindling ill-gotten gains paying fat-arsed lawyers to try to keep him on the outside. And he will have to keep paying them more and more, because if they slip up and he does go down for a stretch, the odds increase that he will never live long enough to see the crappy gold toilets of Mar-a-Lago ever again. I would love to see his end as a note in the obituaries:

TRUMP, D.J. Died April 1st of cardiac arrest while serving a custodial sentence.

And that's it.

I don't think that Donald Trump feels stress about any impending lawsuits. In his mind any suit brought against him is vexatious and will lose so long as his lawyers handle it competently.

I also think that he's not going to be paying lawyers, that's not what he does.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by The Don

I don't think that Donald Trump feels stress about any impending lawsuits. In his mind any suit brought against him is vexatious and will lose so long as his lawyers handle it competently.

True, but he does stress about these, gets frustrated. Because it means he has to go to his lawyers again to bail him out again.

Quote:

I also think that he's not going to be paying lawyers, that's not what he does.

LOL, true! Because despite his "billionaire" status, he is actually a tight-arse. He is not really a cash billionaire. His credit rating with certain sources is set at billionaire level. Until they call in his markers, of course.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

True, but he does stress about these, gets frustrated. Because it means he has to go to his lawyers again to bail him out again.

LOL, true! Because despite his "billionaire" status, he is actually a tight-arse. He is not really a cash billionaire. His credit rating with certain sources is set at billionaire level. Until they call in his markers, of course.

And some of those markers are being called in... soon!

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

To nitpick... It would be cheaper to sentence EVERY criminal to hone confinement. It is a bad idea to do so however, since it would not provide the needed control in many cases.

That is a ridiculous claim. The cost of securing and monitoring tens of thousands of hard core criminals including murderers, etc in their homes 24/7 would be astronomical.

Quote:

As for it being easier to confine Trump at home, I disagree. Being at home would require continued secret service protection, monitoring, etc. Put him in prison, and things actually get easier. the secret service detail will find "protecting" him to be easier in a more controled environment.

He's already getting SS protection as a former POTUS. The entirety of Mar a Lago is not his home. He would be confined to a certain area and most likely, not even Mar a Lago itself, but to another of his properties that is not open to others.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You must think bigger my dear. Trump's crimes are unique and his having been POTUS including having a devoted cult following should not mean he escapes justice.

In fact, IMO, it is critical to restoring our democracy that he is tried for these crimes and if convicted, as I think it's clear he should be, then he should actually go to jail.

Home confinement won't do. Can you imagine him being confined to Mar-a-lago where he could continue to crash weddings and give speeches?

No, just no. That will not do.

I totally agree he should be tried for his crimes. You've gotten no argument from me there. I'd LOVE to see him in an orange jumpsuit and his ass sitting in a prison cell. I just don't think the latter part will happen. Even if convicted, I think he'll be sentenced to home confinement. As I said to Segnosaur, I don't think it will be Mar a Lago, but to a different property that the public does not have access to. He owns several homes. As newyorkguy points out, Sarkozy may have been convicted and sentenced to prison, but that is France and this is the US.

[newyorkguy]

As newyorkguy pointed out? I didn't mean former French President Nicolas Sarkozy was sentenced to prison but that's France, this is the United States. I clearly stated what I think:

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Can trump, if convicted, be sentenced to prison? I would say yes, absolutely...

As Jackie Gleason used to bellow, HOW SWEET IT IS!!!

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

As newyorkguy pointed out? I didn't mean former French President Nicolas Sarkozy was sentenced to prison but that's France, this is the United States. I clearly stated what I think:


As Jackie Gleason used to bellow, HOW SWEET IT IS!!!

I meant that you pointed out that Sarkozy was sentenced to prison. "I" meant that's France but this is the US. Poor wording on my part. Believe me, I'd would never be happier to be proven wrong!

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Quote:

To nitpick... It would be cheaper to sentence EVERY criminal to hone confinement. It is a bad idea to do so however, since it would not provide the needed control in many cases.

That is a ridiculous claim. The cost of securing and monitoring tens of thousands of hard core criminals including murderers, etc in their homes 24/7 would be astronomical.

Go back and read what I wrote. Exactly. Word for word. I specifically mentioned that the problem was control.

You can very cheaply confine even the worst mass murder at home with a (relatively cheap) ankle monitor. We don't do so partly because many of those criminals would be too risky.

Its the same with Trump... if you let him out (but with home monitoring) you are accepting a certain amount of risk. (Not necessarily that he will go around and start killing people. Well, unless they are between him and a cheeseburger. But the risk is that he will violate the terms of his confinement, such as having unauthorized visitors, interacting with the press, etc.)

Quote:

Quote:

As for it being easier to confine Trump at home, I disagree. Being at home would require continued secret service protection, monitoring, etc. Put him in prison, and things actually get easier. the secret service detail will find "protecting" him to be easier in a more controled environment.

He's already getting SS protection as a former POTUS.

Yes he is. Not sure why you brought that up.

Quote:

The entirety of Mar a Lago is not his home. He would be confined to a certain area and most likely, not even Mar a Lago itself, but to another of his properties that is not open to others.

First of all, while its possible he may be confined to some other property (apart from Mar a lago), there is no guarantee of that.

But even if he was confined to some house somewhere (i.e. not Mar a lago) where you didn't have to worry about resort guests, it is still a hassle for the secret service.... The house would be in a city/civilian area, so the secret service would have to have people to watch (and potentially control) traffic on nearby streets. Multiple guards would have to be stationed at various locations on the property. Visitors would have to be vetted. So that is an entire security team, just to deal with Trump. (So, pretty much the same sort of security detail he has now).

Put Trump in prison, and security becomes easier. No need to worry about controlling traffic on nearby streets. You don't need guards to specifically protect Trump. All of that is part of the regular process to protect prisoners.

The only way having Trump confined to home would be cheaper/easier than jailing him is if they strip him of his secret service detail.

[newyorkguy]

I don't think being confined in what would almost certainly be a 'white collar' prison would be that tough on trump, anyway. Given that he lives in his own reality, he'd probably work it around in his mind to be a kind of honor, or at least a recognition of how special he is. No other president has ever been incarcerated. Not one! But, trump might very well decide, being sent to prison is recognition of how powerful, how dangerous he is to all the weak, cowardly Radical Dems, RINOs and Deep Staters out there.

trump is trump's most dedicated fan. Nobody loves trump as much as trump. In other words, alluding to an ongoing thread, he is a mental case.

Below a photo-shopped image trump tweeted in November 2019.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

I don't think being confined in what would almost certainly be a 'white collar' prison would be that tough on trump, anyway. Given that he lives in his own reality, he'd probably work it around in his mind to be a kind of honor, or at least a recognition of how special he is. No other president has ever been incarcerated. Not one! But, trump might very well decide, being sent to prison is recognition of how powerful, how dangerous he is to all the weak, cowardly Radical Dems, RINOs and Deep Staters out there.

trump is trump's most dedicated fan. Nobody loves trump as much as trump. In other words, alluding to an ongoing thread, he is a mental case.

<snip>

I'm fine with that. In fact I think its great. It'll ensure that the treatment he gets from his fellow convicts will be less than enthusiastic. He doesn't have the sort of network it takes to be somebody special behind bars. He won't be the only one in lock-up with delusions, but he might be one of the more entertaining ones.

He still belongs behind bars. People need to see that there are serious, real consequences for his sort of crimes.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Go back and read what I wrote. Exactly. Word for word. I specifically mentioned that the problem was control.

You can very cheaply confine even the worst mass murder at home with a (relatively cheap) ankle monitor. We don't do so partly because many of those criminals would be too risky.

Its the same with Trump... if you let him out (but with home monitoring) you are accepting a certain amount of risk. (Not necessarily that he will go around and start killing people. Well, unless they are between him and a cheeseburger. But the risk is that he will violate the terms of his confinement, such as having unauthorized visitors, interacting with the press, etc.)

I read it just fine the first time. Word for word. Criminals who have committed crimes equivalent to Trump's have been put on home confinement including Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, and many others, especially since Covid 19. Just like with any criminal, if Trump were to violate the terms of his home confinement, he would then be transferred to a prison. Bringing up violent criminals like mass murderers, who would never be sentenced to home confinement, is a red herring.

Quote:

First of all, while its possible he may be confined to some other property (apart from Mar a lago), there is no guarantee of that.

The government can guarantee he would be confined in whichever property they so choose. The Donald does not get to choose. I'd bet you whatever you'd like that it would not be Mar a Lago.

Quote:

But even if he was confined to some house somewhere (i.e. not Mar a lago) where you didn't have to worry about resort guests, it is still a hassle for the secret service.... The house would be in a city/civilian area, so the secret service would have to have people to watch (and potentially control) traffic on nearby streets. Multiple guards would have to be stationed at various locations on the property. Visitors would have to be vetted. So that is an entire security team, just to deal with Trump. So, pretty much the same sort of security detail he has now).


Put Trump in prison, and security becomes easier. No need to worry about controlling traffic on nearby streets. You don't need guards to specifically protect Trump. All of that is part of the regular process to protect prisoners.

The only way having Trump confined to home would be cheaper/easier than jailing him is if they strip him of his secret service detail.

You're making all kinds of assumptions. I suspect he'd be sent to his 213 acre Seven Springs estate in the country (NY) and possibly housed in the Nonsuch Tudor guest house as it's smaller and more easily guarded; it only has seven bedrooms. Slap an ankle monitor on him, give him his already usual SS detail to watch him with added monitoring and let him know that if he breaks the rules, it's off to prison with his fat, orange ass.

[newyorkguy]

If trump does get convicted and is sentenced to prison, it will be to a so-called 'white collar' prison, a low-security prison. One without bars or even, for the most part, locks. But judging by comments made by some high profile people who have served prison sentences in one of the low security prisons, it is far from "a cakewalk," though. Bernard Kerik, a former New York City Police Commissioner (later pardoned by trump), served three years in a federal 'white collar' prison in Cumberland Maryland. He says the experience was horrendous.

A former FBI agent, currently serving a fifteen year sentence for official corruption, says trump -- given his high profile -- would probably have to be placed in solitary, isolated from other inmates, even in a 'white collar' prison. One reason is, as Bernard Kerik explained, in today's white collar prisons there are many "inner city inmates," mostly drug dealers serving short sentences with no history of violent behavior. How they would react to being in contact with trump is an unknown, of course, but prison officials would be likely to handle the former president very cautiously, keeping him isolated from other inmates. Being warden of the prison where donald trump was beaten or worse, would be the ultimate career-killer. And they'd know it.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

If trump does get convicted and is sentenced to prison, it will be to a so-called 'white collar' prison, a low-security prison. One without bars or even, for the most part, locks. But judging by comments made by some high profile people who have served prison sentences in one of the low security prisons, it is far from "a cakewalk," though. Bernard Kerik, a former New York City Police Commissioner (later pardoned by trump), served three years in a federal 'white collar' prison in Cumberland Maryland. He says the experience was horrendous.

A former FBI agent, currently serving a fifteen year sentence for official corruption, says trump -- given his high profile -- would probably have to be placed in solitary, isolated from other inmates, even in a 'white collar' prison. One reason is, as Bernard Kerik explained, in today's white collar prisons there are many "inner city inmates," mostly drug dealers serving short sentences with no history of violent behavior. How they would react to being in contact with trump is an unknown, of course, but prison officials would be likely to handle the former president very cautiously, keeping him isolated from other inmates. Being warden of the prison where donald trump was beaten or worse, would be the ultimate career-killer. And they'd know it.

Trump would do fine in isolation. Give him a DVD player with a playlist of The Apprentice episodes and videos of his stump speeches and he'd be happy as a clam. Spending time with the best friend he's ever had.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Trump would do fine in isolation. Give him a DVD player with a playlist of The Apprentice episodes and videos of his stump speeches and he'd be happy as a clam. Spending time with the best friend he's ever had.

Throw in a scaled-down version of the Baby Trump inflatable, and it's a party.

[SteveAitch]

Originally Posted by eerok

Throw in a scaled-down version of the Baby Trump inflatable, and it's a party.

Aaargh, please make sure it's not an anatomically correct one...

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by SteveAitch

Aaargh, please make sure it's not an anatomically correct one...

You have an aversion to small hands?

[xjx388]

Now, hold on....I am pretty sure most of you here accept as fact that Trump is dangerously mentally ill. As such, how much culpability do you think he has for any crimes he may have committed? After all, he cant tell the difference between reality and the lies he creates in his head.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by xjx388

Now, hold on....I am pretty sure most of you here accept as fact that Trump is dangerously mentally ill. As such, how much culpability do you think he has for any crimes he may have committed? After all, he cant tell the difference between reality and the lies he creates in his head.

His mental problems as reported would suggest that he knows right from wrong but simply doesn't care.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by xjx388

Now, hold on....I am pretty sure most of you here accept as fact that Trump is dangerously mentally ill. As such, how much culpability do you think he has for any crimes he may have committed? After all, he cant tell the difference between reality and the lies he creates in his head.

Do you not understand the difference between being mentally ill and being criminally not culpable because of being mentally ill?

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Do you not understand the difference between being mentally ill and being criminally not culpable because of being mentally ill?

Exactly. Additionally, the crimes Trump more than likely committed are tax/finance related. The fact he has fought so hard to keep his tax records from being released is strong evidence that he knows he broke the law.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Exactly. Additionally, the crimes Trump more than likely committed are tax/finance related. The fact he has fought so hard to keep his tax records from being released is strong evidence that he knows he broke the law.

Yes and no.

In Trump's brain, HE invents the rules. There is no such thing as "cheating". So he can never lose. There are no consequences or penalties involved. Any real-life penalties are "someone else's fault" and he can always find someone to throw under the bus. Laws are simply somebody else's restrictions that don't apply to him. Because that's how his life has been arranged. When people tell him the rules DO apply, his cry of "Witch hunt!" is him saying no they really don't.

His fight to hide his tax records are not so much an attempt to hide a wrongdoing as it is "how you play the game". Doesn't EVERYONE hide their taxes? Because he prides himself on doing it better than anyone!

[kookbreaker]

I don’t think the affluenza defense works well.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Yes and no.

In Trump's brain, HE invents the rules. There is no such thing as "cheating". So he can never lose. There are no consequences or penalties involved. Any real-life penalties are "someone else's fault" and he can always find someone to throw under the bus. Laws are simply somebody else's restrictions that don't apply to him. Because that's how his life has been arranged. When people tell him the rules DO apply, his cry of "Witch hunt!" is him saying no they really don't.

His fight to hide his tax records are not so much an attempt to hide a wrongdoing as it is "how you play the game". Doesn't EVERYONE hide their taxes? Because he prides himself on doing it better than anyone!

Believing you won't get caught is not much of a defense.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Do you not understand the difference between being mentally ill and being criminally not culpable because of being mentally ill?

Indeed. A "not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect" defence requires that the defendant did not know, or could not have known, that they were doing something wrong or criminal, and this lack of understanding must be due to their mental disease or defect.

People with NPD know exactly what they are doing, and they know that it is wrong, but they do it anyway. For this reason, NPD cannot be used as a mental illness defence against criminal acts.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Yes and no.

In Trump's brain, HE invents the rules. There is no such thing as "cheating". So he can never lose. There are no consequences or penalties involved. Any real-life penalties are "someone else's fault" and he can always find someone to throw under the bus. Laws are simply somebody else's restrictions that don't apply to him. Because that's how his life has been arranged. When people tell him the rules DO apply, his cry of "Witch hunt!" is him saying no they really don't.

His fight to hide his tax records are not so much an attempt to hide a wrongdoing as it is "how you play the game". Doesn't EVERYONE hide their taxes? Because he prides himself on doing it better than anyone!

I disagree. He knows he's cheating and he knows there are consequences if he gets caught. But...and here's the kicker...he doesn't believe he'll ever get caught when he does the cheating because 1) he's so much smarter than everyone else (NPD) and 2) up to now, it's always worked out for him. He never has had to face the consequences because either Daddy bailed him out or his money has bought his way out. Only now is he finally...maybe...at long last...going to face the consequences of his illegal actions.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Quote:

Go back and read what I wrote. Exactly. Word for word. I specifically mentioned that the problem was control.

You can very cheaply confine even the worst mass murder at home with a (relatively cheap) ankle monitor. We don't do so partly because many of those criminals would be too risky.

Its the same with Trump... if you let him out (but with home monitoring) you are accepting a certain amount of risk. (Not necessarily that he will go around and start killing people. Well, unless they are between him and a cheeseburger. But the risk is that he will violate the terms of his confinement, such as having unauthorized visitors, interacting with the press, etc.)

I read it just fine the first time. Word for word.

Then it is a case of understanding.

Again... In theory ANY criminal (from a serial jaywalker to a mass murderer) can be kept on home confinement, at a cheaper cost than prison. It is just a case of "how much risk are we willing to accept for that cheaper method of confinement".

Quote:

Criminals who have committed crimes equivalent to Trump's have been put on home confinement...

And criminals who have committed crimes equivalent to Trump have actually spent time in jail/prison.

Quote:

including Michael Cohen

Ummm... Cohen actually spent time in prison. (So did Manafort.)

Quote:

Roger Stone

Bad example. Stone was granted a pardon prior to sentencing. (If he had actually been sentenced, he would have likely spent time behind bars.)

Quote:

and many others, especially since Covid 19.

Yes, a lot more people have been released and sentenced to home confinement since covid became an issue. However, once vaccinations are more widespread and herd immunity kicks in, I suspect you will see less covid related releases.

Quote:

Just like with any criminal, if Trump were to violate the terms of his home confinement, he would then be transferred to a prison. Bringing up violent criminals like mass murderers, who would never be sentenced to home confinement, is a red herring.

You were talking about the costs (of prison time vs. home confinement).

The fact that a mass murder would never be granted home confinement doesn't change the fact that it would be cheaper to use home confinement.

Quote:

Quote:

First of all, while its possible he may be confined to some other property (apart from Mar a lago), there is no guarantee of that.

The government can guarantee he would be confined in whichever property they so choose. The Donald does not get to choose. I'd bet you whatever you'd like that it would not be Mar a Lago.

I suspect that any sort of confinement scenario would have to be approved by a judge. And if prosecutors tried to say "you may not stay at Mar a Lago", Trump will immediately launch a lawsuit demanding that he be allowed to stay at his preferred location.

Quote:

But even if he was confined to some house somewhere (i.e. not Mar a lago) where you didn't have to worry about resort guests, it is still a hassle for the secret service.... The house would be in a city/civilian area, so the secret service would have to have people to watch (and potentially control) traffic on nearby streets. Multiple guards would have to be stationed at various locations on the property. Visitors would have to be vetted. So that is an entire security team, just to deal with Trump. So, pretty much the same sort of security detail he has now).

Put Trump in prison, and security becomes easier. No need to worry about controlling traffic on nearby streets. You don't need guards to specifically protect Trump. All of that is part of the regular process to protect prisoners.

The only way having Trump confined to home would be cheaper/easier than jailing him is if they strip him of his secret service detail.

You're making all kinds of assumptions.

I suspect he'd be sent to his 213 acre Seven Springs estate in the country (NY) and possibly housed in the Nonsuch Tudor guest house as it's smaller and more easily guarded; it only has seven bedrooms. Slap an ankle monitor on him, give him his already usual SS detail to watch him with added monitoring and let him know that if he breaks the rules, it's off to prison with his fat, orange ass.[/quote]
Again, you're missing the point....

Even if it is cheaper/easier to guard Trump at Seven Springs (or wherever he might be confined) than it is at Mar a Lago.... it is still more expensive than having him confined in prison.

Trump confined at Seven Springs: Government has to employ multiple secret service agents to protect the grounds, street traffic around Seven Springs has to be controlled, etc. THIS COSTS EXTRA MONEY!

Trump in Prison: Whatever security measures that would be in place to guard the rest of the prisoners would also provide protection for Trump by default. THIS DOES NOT COST EXTRA MONEY!

[Segnosaur]

So a little more pressure on Trump....

From: CNBC
The former daughter-in-law of Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg on Thursday turned over financial records to investigators...Jennifer Weisselberg was married to Weisselberg’s son, Barry Weisselberg, from 2004 to 2018. She has previously said that she is cooperating with prosecutors in Vance’s office and claimed to have several boxes of materials obtained during divorce proceedings to give to investigators.

There are 2 ways this could hurt Trump... There may be information that directly implicates Trump (or the Trump organization) in various crimes within the documents. Or, more likely, it will find evidence of wrongdoing by Trump's CFO, and give prosecutors some leverage in getting him to turn against Trump.

[slyjoe]

I guess she had the laptop, and it wasn't Hunter's.

https://news.yahoo.com/ex-daughter-l...030054279.html

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by slyjoe

I guess she had the laptop, and it wasn't Hunter's.

https://news.yahoo.com/ex-daughter-l...030054279.html

Yeah but did it have a copy of Hillary's emails on it? Get Comey on the phone now!

[xjx388]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Do you not understand the difference between being mentally ill and being criminally not culpable because of being mentally ill?

Sure I do. But I've seen you argue that he's completely delusional, doesn't know his lies from reality and is so profundly and obviously mentally ill that he's dangerous. If you are right, then isn't there at least a possibility that he was too mentally ill to form the mens rea to commit a crime?

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Exactly. Additionally, the crimes Trump more than likely committed are tax/finance related. The fact he has fought so hard to keep his tax records from being released is strong evidence that he knows he broke the law.

OR: He truly thinks he did not break the law because he is mentall ill. And fighting to keep his tax records from being released is not evidence of anything. Kinda like pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by xjx388

Sure I do. But I've seen you argue that he's completely delusional, doesn't know his lies from reality and is so profundly and obviously mentally ill that he's dangerous. If you are right, then isn't there at least a possibility that he was too mentally ill to form the mens rea to commit a crime?

All the bolded is true. The way I understand it, the law only cares if you know right from wrong.

Originally Posted by xjx388

OR: He truly thinks he did not break the law because he is mentall ill. And fighting to keep his tax records from being released is not evidence of anything. Kinda like pleading the fifth is not an admission of guilt.

Hiding his taxes is evidence he believes he has something to hide.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by xjx388

OR: He truly thinks he did not break the law because he is mentall ill.

Not about his taxes, but....

Rumors were that when Trump found out that they were setting up an investigation by Mueller to investigate Russian interference, Trump made some sort of comment along the lines of "I'm finished".

That implies that he thought the Mueller investigation would actually uncover illegal activity, suggesting he knew what he was doing was legally and morally wrong.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Then it is a case of understanding.

Again... In theory ANY criminal (from a serial jaywalker to a mass murderer) can be kept on home confinement, at a cheaper cost than prison. It is just a case of "how much risk are we willing to accept for that cheaper method of confinement".

And criminals who have committed crimes equivalent to Trump have actually spent time in jail/prison.

Ummm... Cohen actually spent time in prison. (So did Manafort.)

Bad example. Stone was granted a pardon prior to sentencing. (If he had actually been sentenced, he would have likely spent time behind bars.)

Yes, a lot more people have been released and sentenced to home confinement since covid became an issue. However, once vaccinations are more widespread and herd immunity kicks in, I suspect you will see less covid related releases.

You were talking about the costs (of prison time vs. home confinement).

The fact that a mass murder would never be granted home confinement doesn't change the fact that it would be cheaper to use home confinement.

I suspect that any sort of confinement scenario would have to be approved by a judge. And if prosecutors tried to say "you may not stay at Mar a Lago", Trump will immediately launch a lawsuit demanding that he be allowed to stay at his preferred location.

Quote:

You're making all kinds of assumptions.

I suspect he'd be sent to his 213 acre Seven Springs estate in the country (NY) and possibly housed in the Nonsuch Tudor guest house as it's smaller and more easily guarded; it only has seven bedrooms. Slap an ankle monitor on him, give him his already usual SS detail to watch him with added monitoring and let him know that if he breaks the rules, it's off to prison with his fat, orange ass.

Again, you're missing the point....

Even if it is cheaper/easier to guard Trump at Seven Springs (or wherever he might be confined) than it is at Mar a Lago.... it is still more expensive than having him confined in prison.

Trump confined at Seven Springs: Government has to employ multiple secret service agents to protect the grounds, street traffic around Seven Springs has to be controlled, etc. THIS COSTS EXTRA MONEY!

Trump in Prison: Whatever security measures that would be in place to guard the rest of the prisoners would also provide protection for Trump by default. THIS DOES NOT COST EXTRA MONEY!

No, it is not a matter of my "not understanding". Nor is it a matter of not being able to understand anything but THINGS TYPED IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.

1) Did I say Cohen and Manafort had not spent time in prison? They still were put into home confinement.

2) Stone was not pardoned before sentencing.

Quote:

In November 2019, a jury convicted him on all seven felony counts. He was sentenced to 40 months in prison. On July 10, 2020, days before Stone was scheduled to report to prison, Trump commuted his sentence.

He was sentenced to home confinement by the judge for the period before reporting to prison.

3) Judges sentence prisoners not prosecutors. A judge would not have to get permission to sentence Trump to home confinement any more than they need permission for any other sentence they impose. Trump could no more sue to stay at his preferred location any more than he could sue to stay at another prison.

4) You do not know that the standard amount of guards/security used at a prison would remain the same when a former POTUS, especially one that has a cult following like Trump, would remain the same. Specialized and added security, both human and technological, would most likely be added in order to ensure that nuts jobs like those that attacked the Capitol, would not do something equally stupid like try and "spring" their "President" from his "unlawful imprisonment". THAT COSTS EXTRA MONEY! I typed that in all caps just to make sure you understood as apparently it's required.

[smartcooky]

And now this

https://www.nationalmemo.com/trump-capitol-riot-

In a ruling on Wednesday in the case of one of the accused Capitol rioters, U.S. Judge Emmett Sullivan offered a provocative aside about former President Donald Trump's role in the attack.

Sullivan indicated he believes Trump and his allies may have significant legal exposure for their roles.

"To be sure, to what extent President Trump's words and actions led to the violent and shocking storming of the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021 is an important question, and one that could still have legal consequences for the former President and his prominent supporters," Sullivan wrote, citing a civil lawsuit against the former president. "But President Trump's culpability is not before this Court."

[Minoosh]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

The government can guarantee he would be confined in whichever property they so choose. The Donald does not get to choose. I'd bet you whatever you'd like that it would not be Mar a Lago.

In reality if it gets that far I expect Trump's lawyers would negotiate which facility he'd be sent to if the charges were federal and even in state crimes having him with gen pop is more trouble than it's worth and the least disruptive thing would be some sort of house arrest. But one thing, if the crime is inciting violence I would look into imposing a condition on him to stay off the Internet. You don't usually have access to it in custody.

Some time in custody might actually be good for him if he's in a minimum security prison and treated as an ordinary prisoner. Chores, structure, community service.

I'm not confident that he will face criminal charges whether federal or state. He seems pretty adept at maneuvering just within the bounds of the law, for example, avoiding direct statements and using delaying tactics. Maybe that will not work so well for him as a private citizen. But things could drag out for years which ultimately will work in his favor.

[quadraginta]

Originally Posted by Minoosh

In reality if it gets that far I expect Trump's lawyers would negotiate which facility he'd be sent to if the charges were federal and even in state crimes having him with gen pop is more trouble than it's worth and the least disruptive thing would be some sort of house arrest. But one thing, if the crime is inciting violence I would look into imposing a condition on him to stay off the Internet. You don't usually have access to it in custody.

Some time in custody might actually be good for him if he's in a minimum security prison and treated as an ordinary prisoner. Chores, structure, community service.

I'm not confident that he will face criminal charges whether federal or state. He seems pretty adept at maneuvering just within the bounds of the law, for example, avoiding direct statements and using delaying tactics. Maybe that will not work so well for him as a private citizen. But things could drag out for years which ultimately will work in his favor.

Repugnicans have always been huge fans of criminal punishment as a deterrence. Seeing that even an ex-POTUS can end up behind bars when he breaks the law ought to be one hell of a deterrent.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

I don’t think the affluenza defense works well.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Believing you won't get caught is not much of a defense.

To the real world, it is indeed zero defense to such a crime, and also my view.

But in Trump's crocodile solipsistic brain, he's done nothing to be accused of. To him, what he has done are simply not a crimes he even has to defend. "You can grab 'em by the pussy...they let you!"

His cries of "Witch hunt!" and "Fake News!" are not desperate pleas of innocence. They are him denying the crimes even exist.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I disagree. He knows he's cheating and he knows there are consequences if he gets caught. But...and here's the kicker...he doesn't believe he'll ever get caught when he does the cheating because 1) he's so much smarter than everyone else (NPD) and 2) up to now, it's always worked out for him. He never has had to face the consequences because either Daddy bailed him out or his money has bought his way out. Only now is he finally...maybe...at long last...going to face the consequences of his illegal actions.

Partially agree.

T**** sees his life as an activity like tightrope-walking, which can be very dangerous with huge consequences if you make any mistakes, but it's not illegal.

Regarding the danger aspect, he thinks he is very good at this because he has never fallen, never suffered any consequences. The reality is his father put the rope on the ground for him to walk. Even then, every time Donny stepped off it he had daddy and crowds of minions and sycophants help him back on and tell him he was marvelous. So Donny grew to think he is a genius tightrope walker who cannot fall. And this is all legal in his mind.

Yes, this is a fantasy. T****'s business activities have always been mostly shonky or illegal. and have real consequences. He likes to flirt with the danger of being a wheeler-dealer. Just that he doesn't acknowledge the illegality part...yet.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

To the real world, it is indeed zero defense to such a crime, and also my view.

But in Trump's crocodile solipsistic brain, he's done nothing to be accused of. To him, what he has done are simply not a crimes he even has to defend. "You can grab 'em by the pussy...they let you!"

His cries of "Witch hunt!" and "Fake News!" are not desperate pleas of innocence. They are him denying the crimes even exist.

Yes but that's what I was talking about. Who cares what he 'believes' if the evidence is there when he gets caught.