Criminal Charges Against Trump - Page 41

mgidm86 · 2nd April 2022, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by SteveAitch

An unfortunate golfing 'accident'?

Yes, please.

Stacyhs · 4th April 2022, 07:08 PM

I suppose all those Trump appointed judges need to recuse themselves from any Trump related trials or lawsuits?

Quote:

Lawyers for former President Donald Trump are asking a federal judge appointed by President Bill Clinton to step aside from a suit Trump filed last month claiming that Hillary Clinton and her political allies engaged in a racketeering conspiracy to falsely accuse Trump of colluding with Russia to gain support in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Court records show U.S. District Court Judge Donald Middlebrooks was assigned to the suit on March 24, the same day Trump’s attorneys filed the case in the Southern District of Florida, where Trump currently resides.

Trump lawyers Alina Habba and Peter Ticktin contend that Middlebrooks could be seen as biased because Bill Clinton chose him for the federal court bench in 1997.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inton-00022832

theprestige · 4th April 2022, 07:23 PM

I think they shouldn't recuse themselves.

eerok · 8th April 2022, 06:18 AM

Looks like it's still on...

Manhattan DA Breaks Silence After Sudden Resignations of Prosecutors on Trump Investigation (lawandcrime.com)

Quote:

A little more than a month after two of his top prosecutors resigned in protest, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg (D) broke his silence on Thursday to insist that his criminal investigation into the Trump Organization continues. He also vowed to issue a public statement at the time of the probe’s conclusion.

Norman Alexander · 8th April 2022, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Have thought of setting the "Trump is Just the Poor Victim of Democrat Witch Hunts" meme to music? Something catchy with a good beat that could be sung at his rallies?

Try this.

A fun little marching song.

RecoveringYuppy · 8th April 2022, 06:45 AM

NY AG urging court to hold Trump in contempt, also confirms Bragg's investigation is ongoing as eerok's does.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ntempt-request

johnny karate · 8th April 2022, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Have thought of setting the "Trump is Just the Poor Victim of Democrat Witch Hunts" meme to music? Something catchy with a good beat that could be sung at his rallies?

I hope it's as catchy one of my all-time favorites "Benghazi Was Investigated Ten Times in Two Years, You Whiny, Disingenuous Hack".

Stacyhs · 8th April 2022, 01:07 PM

A lengthy email from Donnie JR. to Mark Meadows on NOV 5, 2020 (before the election had been called for either Trump or Biden) reveals a discussion of ways the GOP could secure Daddy getting another term. This pretty much negates the claim that Trump really believed he'd won the election since this email clearly shows they were conspiring a way to overturn it if he lost since it hadn't even been declared yet.

Quote:

Donald Trump Jr. texted Mark Meadows ideas on how to overturn the 2020 election: report

"We have multiple paths. We control them all," the text message sent on November 5, 2020 read.

Quote:

Donald Trump Jr., former President Donald Trump's eldest son, texted then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows ideas to overturn the results before most major news networks had called the election, according to a CNN report published Friday.

"It's very simple," Trump Jr. wrote in a text message to Meadows on November 5, 2020, two days before the major news networks declared Joe Biden the winner. "We have multiple paths We control them all."

Quote:

Trump Jr.'s texts advanced a version of lawyer John Eastman's six-point plan to overturn the 2020 election on the joint session of Congress on January 6, 2021.
Eastman had suggested, among other legally baseless theories, that Congress could reject slates of Biden electors at the joint session and instead count slates of electors submitted by Trump supporters in seven states that voted for President Joe Biden.

Trump Jr.'s texts also referenced another one of Eastman's ideas for overturning the election, which was to have Congress reject enough slates of electors such that neither Trump nor Biden had a majority of 270 electoral votes, forcing a contingent election where the House of Representatives would vote by state delegation to elect the president.

Quote:

"Republicans control 28 states Democrats 22 states," Trump Jr. said. "Once again Trump wins."
"We either have a vote WE control and WE win OR it gets kicked to Congress 6 January 2021," Trump Jr said.
Trump Jr. also suggested that if none of those plans worked, Congress could simply vote to reinstall Trump for a second term, which is not possible under any existing US election laws.
"We have operational control Total leverage," Trump Jr wrote in a message to Meadows. "Moral High Ground POTUS must start 2nd term now."

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

NY AG urging court to hold Trump in contempt, also confirms Bragg's investigation is ongoing as eerok's does.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ntempt-request

Looks like Bragg's investigation may not be going on much longer:

"Likelihood of Trump Indictment in Manhattan Fades as Grand Jury Wraps Up."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/29/n...rand-jury.html

Althouse summary here:

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2022/0...ctment-in.html

Brainster · 29th April 2022, 08:58 AM

The walls continue to not close in.

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

The walls continue to not close in.

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The NYT article acknowledges that even though this grand jury's term ends soon, Bragg could impanel another one. But the article also warns, "impaneling a new grand jury could create challenges for any potential case. Mr. Trump’s lawyers could argue — and a judge might agree — that prosecutors were inappropriately hunting for a more favorable group of jurors."

RecoveringYuppy · 29th April 2022, 09:20 AM

Doesn't appear to be anything new in that report? We've known the expiration date of the grand jury for months now.

JoeMorgue · 29th April 2022, 09:25 AM

At this rate in 100 more years we'll might finally have enough evidence to prove Trump did stuff he openly bragged about doing on National TV and has already been proven a thousand times over.

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Doesn't appear to be anything new in that report? We've known the expiration date of the grand jury for months now.

I think it's a "the news is there is no news" kind of report. Bragg apparently hasn't yet made an effort to impanel a new grand jury, since the issue of the impending expiration of the current jury was first raised months ago. Several key witnesses continue to not be contacted or called to testify, over the months since the issue of the jury's expiration was first reported. Trump's lawyers have shifted out of "war room" mode in recent months since, etc.

People invested in the subject, or simply interested in it, might be asking, "has anything changed, or does it still look like Bragg might be winding down with no indictments?" This report answers those questions.

bruto · 29th April 2022, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The NYT article acknowledges that even though this grand jury's term ends soon, Bragg could impanel another one. But the article also warns, "impaneling a new grand jury could create challenges for any potential case. Mr. Trump’s lawyers could argue — and a judge might agree — that prosecutors were inappropriately hunting for a more favorable group of jurors."

I don't think the fat lady has to sing, only the fat man.

RecoveringYuppy · 29th April 2022, 11:10 AM

BTW has anyone ever heard before that the current, about to expire, grand jury was unlikely to indict? I haven't heard that before. Everything I've heard so far is that an indictment could have been obtained. In the disagreement between Bragg and Pomerantz it seemed to me that both sides thought an indictment could be obtained. I thought that the argument about Cohen's testimony was that it might not convince a trail jury, not that it would fail in the grand jury proceedings.

BTW Cohen is threatening to stop cooperating if they don't indict soon and by soon he means tomorrow unless the grand jury get an unexpected extension.

https://www.salon.com/2022/04/21/mic...month_partner/

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

BTW has anyone ever heard before that the current, about to expire, grand jury was unlikely to indict? I haven't heard that before. Everything I've heard so far is that an indictment could have been obtained. In the disagreement between Bragg and Pomerantz it seemed to me that both sides thought an indictment could be obtained. I thought that the argument about Cohen's testimony was that it might not convince a trail jury, not that it would fail in the grand jury proceedings.

BTW Cohen is threatening to stop cooperating if they don't indict soon and by soon he means tomorrow unless the grand jury get an unexpected extension.

https://www.salon.com/2022/04/21/mic...month_partner/

I haven't heard it, but I have inferred it. I expect a lot of other people have drawn the same inference. If a prosecutor says he wants an indictment and thinks he can get an indictment, but lets a grand jury expire without actually getting the indictment, what should carry more weight? What he said? Or the actions he took, and their outcome?

Stacyhs · 29th April 2022, 12:41 PM

Judge has denied Trump's appeal on his civic contempt charge daily 10K fine.

JoeMorgue · 29th April 2022, 12:46 PM

Do we know if he's actually paying the fine? Or if he has any intention to start? Or who's going to make him do it if he says no?

RecoveringYuppy · 29th April 2022, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I haven't heard it, but I have inferred it. I expect a lot of other people have drawn the same inference. If a prosecutor says he wants an indictment and thinks he can get an indictment, but lets a grand jury expire without actually getting the indictment, what should carry more weight? What he said? Or the actions he took, and their outcome?

That doesn't make sense as a way to answer the question I asked. Both what "he" said and what he did are consistent with both alternative reasons.

And there is not a single "he". We have the opinions of at least four people on both sides of the disagreement and not one said anything I recall about doubt that an indictment could be obtained.

Stacyhs · 29th April 2022, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Do we know if he's actually paying the fine? Or if he has any intention to start? Or who's going to make him do it if he says no?

He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too.

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

That doesn't make sense as a way to answer the question I asked. Both what "he" said and what he did are consistent with both alternative reasons.

And there is not a single "he". We have the opinions of at least four people on both sides of the disagreement and not one said anything I recall about doubt that an indictment could be obtained.

The "he" was notional, to illustrate the concept. The concept being, it doesn't matter whether we've heard any of them say it, we can see the outcome of their actions unfolding in realtime and draw inferences from that regardless of what they say or don't say.

Orwell cautions against the use of cliches, but "actions speak louder than words" seems really apropos here.

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too.

Probably the court that ordered it would order some form of asset seizure to achieve compliance.

Paul2 · 29th April 2022, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Do we know if he's actually paying the fine? Or if he has any intention to start? Or who's going to make him do it if he says no?

Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . .

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . .

I for one will laugh my ass off if the only jail time Trump does is a few months for contempt.

GlennB · 29th April 2022, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . .

Which would go to appeal? Is the US legal system truly bottomless?

I would despair about all this, except I pre-despaired some time back.

Fast Eddie B · 29th April 2022, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too.

No doubt he will appeal to a highly court. All the way the the Supreme Court, if necessary.

Delay, delay, delay…

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by GlennB

Which would go to appeal? Is the US legal system truly bottomless?

The appeals process includes some preemption of re-appealing consequences of the ruling already appealed. Plus appeals courts can decline to consider appeals, letting the lower court's ruling stand as-is.

I doubt the US appeals system is any more "bottomless" than the Canadian or UKian or Frenchian or Swedenian systems.

Stacyhs · 29th April 2022, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Paul2

Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . .

Actually, they can and fine him even more.

theprestige · 29th April 2022, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

No doubt he will appeal to a highly court. All the way the the Supreme Court, if necessary.

Delay, delay, delay…

LOL. Heaven forbid that a citizen avail themselves of all the due process of law provided to them!

Stacyhs · 29th April 2022, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

LOL. Heaven forbid that a citizen avail themselves of all the due process of law provided to them!

While I agree with the basic premise of this, Trump is well-known to use every delay tactic at his disposal in lawsuits in hope of wearing the other side down emotionally and financially so they just withdraw or settle out of court.

Paul2 · 29th April 2022, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

While I agree with the basic premise of this, Trump is well-known to use every delay tactic at his disposal in lawsuits in hope of wearing the other side down emotionally and financially so they just withdraw or settle out of court.

Exactly as the founders intended! Which Federalist paper was that tactic in?

Skeptic Ginger · 29th April 2022, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too.

He has assets a lien can be placed on, among other options.

RecoveringYuppy · 30th April 2022, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

He has assets a lien can be placed on, among other options.

But who will enforce the liens? The question isn't how will the can get kicked down the road again. The question is who will enforce the judgement that's been made. I, like at least two people ahead of me in the thread, want to know the answer.

Susheel · 30th April 2022, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

LOL. Heaven forbid that a citizen avail themselves of all the due process of law provided to them!

Oh yes...I am sure that all American citizens have the "privilege" of taking full advantage of the "due process of the law." Or is it only available to those well heeled?

Crazy Chainsaw · 30th April 2022, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Oh yes...I am sure that all American citizens have the "privilege" of taking full advantage of the "due process of the law." Or is it only available to those well heeled?

The Law is only for those with Money to Pay Lawyers.

Skeptic Ginger · 30th April 2022, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

But who will enforce the liens? The question isn't how will the can get kicked down the road again. The question is who will enforce the judgement that's been made. I, like at least two people ahead of me in the thread, want to know the answer.

What do you mean who will enforce the lien? Do you not know how a lien works?

What Is A Lien, and How Does It Work?

The lien holder gets the money when the property is sold, or a lien holder can force a sale to collect the money.

RecoveringYuppy · 30th April 2022, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

What do you mean who will enforce the lien?

We mean we want the name of the person or organization who is going to do it for crying out loud. BTW if you can read the room, you should realize we want to know when it's going to be done too.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Do you not know how a lien works?

No. I know how a lien works. I'll ask "how does a lien work" when I need to know how a lien works.

mgidm86 · 30th April 2022, 02:43 PM

I think that is a valid concern because, as of now, nobody has enforced much of anything regarding Trump. If we don't nail Trump on something soon we may as well hand the keys to the country over to the right and leave.

Stacyhs · 30th April 2022, 03:22 PM

Trump runs up hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines by not paying and having higher and highe fines levied against him.

A lien is put on Mar a Lago.

A sale is forced and Trump is evicted from his Kingdom of Kiss Assery.

Sigh....one can dream....

2nd April 2022, 02:05 PM	#1601
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,467	Originally Posted by SteveAitch An unfortunate golfing 'accident'? Yes, please.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,467

4th April 2022, 07:23 PM	#1603
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	I think they shouldn't recuse themselves.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

8th April 2022, 06:18 AM	#1604
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 5,369	Looks like it's still on... Manhattan DA Breaks Silence After Sudden Resignations of Prosecutors on Trump Investigation (lawandcrime.com) Quote: A little more than a month after two of his top prosecutors resigned in protest, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg (D) broke his silence on Thursday to insist that his criminal investigation into the Trump Organization continues. He also vowed to issue a public statement at the time of the probe’s conclusion.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

8th April 2022, 06:24 AM	#1605
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 13,602	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Have thought of setting the "Trump is Just the Poor Victim of Democrat Witch Hunts" meme to music? Something catchy with a good beat that could be sung at his rallies? Try this. A fun little marching song.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 8th April 2022 at 06:26 AM.

29th April 2022, 08:37 AM	#1609
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy NY AG urging court to hold Trump in contempt, also confirms Bragg's investigation is ongoing as eerok's does. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ntempt-request Looks like Bragg's investigation may not be going on much longer: "Likelihood of Trump Indictment in Manhattan Fades as Grand Jury Wraps Up." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/29/n...rand-jury.html Althouse summary here: https://althouse.blogspot.com/2022/0...ctment-in.html
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

4th April 2022, 07:08 PM	#1602
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,607	I suppose all those Trump appointed judges need to recuse themselves from any Trump related trials or lawsuits? Quote: Lawyers for former President Donald Trump are asking a federal judge appointed by President Bill Clinton to step aside from a suit Trump filed last month claiming that Hillary Clinton and her political allies engaged in a racketeering conspiracy to falsely accuse Trump of colluding with Russia to gain support in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Court records show U.S. District Court Judge Donald Middlebrooks was assigned to the suit on March 24, the same day Trump’s attorneys filed the case in the Southern District of Florida, where Trump currently resides. Trump lawyers Alina Habba and Peter Ticktin contend that Middlebrooks could be seen as biased because Bill Clinton chose him for the federal court bench in 1997. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inton-00022832

8th April 2022, 06:45 AM	#1606
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,185	NY AG urging court to hold Trump in contempt, also confirms Bragg's investigation is ongoing as eerok's does. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ntempt-request

8th April 2022, 07:09 AM	#1607
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 15,892	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Have thought of setting the "Trump is Just the Poor Victim of Democrat Witch Hunts" meme to music? Something catchy with a good beat that could be sung at his rallies? I hope it's as catchy one of my all-time favorites "Benghazi Was Investigated Ten Times in Two Years, You Whiny, Disingenuous Hack".

8th April 2022, 01:07 PM	#1608
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,607	A lengthy email from Donnie JR. to Mark Meadows on NOV 5, 2020 (before the election had been called for either Trump or Biden) reveals a discussion of ways the GOP could secure Daddy getting another term. This pretty much negates the claim that Trump really believed he'd won the election since this email clearly shows they were conspiring a way to overturn it if he lost since it hadn't even been declared yet. Quote: Donald Trump Jr. texted Mark Meadows ideas on how to overturn the 2020 election: report "We have multiple paths. We control them all," the text message sent on November 5, 2020 read. Quote: Donald Trump Jr., former President Donald Trump's eldest son, texted then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows ideas to overturn the results before most major news networks had called the election, according to a CNN report published Friday. "It's very simple," Trump Jr. wrote in a text message to Meadows on November 5, 2020, two days before the major news networks declared Joe Biden the winner. "We have multiple paths We control them all." Quote: Trump Jr.'s texts advanced a version of lawyer John Eastman's six-point plan to overturn the 2020 election on the joint session of Congress on January 6, 2021. Eastman had suggested, among other legally baseless theories, that Congress could reject slates of Biden electors at the joint session and instead count slates of electors submitted by Trump supporters in seven states that voted for President Joe Biden. Trump Jr.'s texts also referenced another one of Eastman's ideas for overturning the election, which was to have Congress reject enough slates of electors such that neither Trump nor Biden had a majority of 270 electoral votes, forcing a contingent election where the House of Representatives would vote by state delegation to elect the president. Quote: "Republicans control 28 states Democrats 22 states," Trump Jr. said. "Once again Trump wins." "We either have a vote WE control and WE win OR it gets kicked to Congress 6 January 2021," Trump Jr said. Trump Jr. also suggested that if none of those plans worked, Congress could simply vote to reinstall Trump for a second term, which is not possible under any existing US election laws. "We have operational control Total leverage," Trump Jr wrote in a message to Meadows. "Moral High Ground POTUS must start 2nd term now."

29th April 2022, 08:58 AM	#1610
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,562	The walls continue to not close in.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

29th April 2022, 09:01 AM	#1611
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by Brainster The walls continue to not close in. It's not over till the fat lady sings. The NYT article acknowledges that even though this grand jury's term ends soon, Bragg could impanel another one. But the article also warns, "impaneling a new grand jury could create challenges for any potential case. Mr. Trump’s lawyers could argue — and a judge might agree — that prosecutors were inappropriately hunting for a more favorable group of jurors."
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

29th April 2022, 09:20 AM	#1612
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,185	Doesn't appear to be anything new in that report? We've known the expiration date of the grand jury for months now.

29th April 2022, 09:25 AM	#1613
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	At this rate in 100 more years we'll might finally have enough evidence to prove Trump did stuff he openly bragged about doing on National TV and has already been proven a thousand times over.

29th April 2022, 09:27 AM	#1614
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Doesn't appear to be anything new in that report? We've known the expiration date of the grand jury for months now. I think it's a "the news is there is no news" kind of report. Bragg apparently hasn't yet made an effort to impanel a new grand jury, since the issue of the impending expiration of the current jury was first raised months ago. Several key witnesses continue to not be contacted or called to testify, over the months since the issue of the jury's expiration was first reported. Trump's lawyers have shifted out of "war room" mode in recent months since, etc. People invested in the subject, or simply interested in it, might be asking, "has anything changed, or does it still look like Bragg might be winding down with no indictments?" This report answers those questions.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

29th April 2022, 10:53 AM	#1615
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 33,760	Originally Posted by theprestige It's not over till the fat lady sings. The NYT article acknowledges that even though this grand jury's term ends soon, Bragg could impanel another one. But the article also warns, "impaneling a new grand jury could create challenges for any potential case. Mr. Trump’s lawyers could argue — and a judge might agree — that prosecutors were inappropriately hunting for a more favorable group of jurors." I don't think the fat lady has to sing, only the fat man.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) "There is another world, but it's in this one." (Paul Eluard)

29th April 2022, 11:10 AM	#1616
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,185	BTW has anyone ever heard before that the current, about to expire, grand jury was unlikely to indict? I haven't heard that before. Everything I've heard so far is that an indictment could have been obtained. In the disagreement between Bragg and Pomerantz it seemed to me that both sides thought an indictment could be obtained. I thought that the argument about Cohen's testimony was that it might not convince a trail jury, not that it would fail in the grand jury proceedings. BTW Cohen is threatening to stop cooperating if they don't indict soon and by soon he means tomorrow unless the grand jury get an unexpected extension. https://www.salon.com/2022/04/21/mic...month_partner/

29th April 2022, 12:23 PM	#1617
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy BTW has anyone ever heard before that the current, about to expire, grand jury was unlikely to indict? I haven't heard that before. Everything I've heard so far is that an indictment could have been obtained. In the disagreement between Bragg and Pomerantz it seemed to me that both sides thought an indictment could be obtained. I thought that the argument about Cohen's testimony was that it might not convince a trail jury, not that it would fail in the grand jury proceedings. BTW Cohen is threatening to stop cooperating if they don't indict soon and by soon he means tomorrow unless the grand jury get an unexpected extension. https://www.salon.com/2022/04/21/mic...month_partner/ I haven't heard it, but I have inferred it. I expect a lot of other people have drawn the same inference. If a prosecutor says he wants an indictment and thinks he can get an indictment, but lets a grand jury expire without actually getting the indictment, what should carry more weight? What he said? Or the actions he took, and their outcome?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

29th April 2022, 12:41 PM	#1618
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,607	Judge has denied Trump's appeal on his civic contempt charge daily 10K fine.

29th April 2022, 12:46 PM	#1619
JoeMorgue Suspended Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 42,380	Do we know if he's actually paying the fine? Or if he has any intention to start? Or who's going to make him do it if he says no?

29th April 2022, 12:49 PM	#1620
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,185	Originally Posted by theprestige I haven't heard it, but I have inferred it. I expect a lot of other people have drawn the same inference. If a prosecutor says he wants an indictment and thinks he can get an indictment, but lets a grand jury expire without actually getting the indictment, what should carry more weight? What he said? Or the actions he took, and their outcome? That doesn't make sense as a way to answer the question I asked. Both what "he" said and what he did are consistent with both alternative reasons. And there is not a single "he". We have the opinions of at least four people on both sides of the disagreement and not one said anything I recall about doubt that an indictment could be obtained.

29th April 2022, 12:50 PM	#1621
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,607	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Do we know if he's actually paying the fine? Or if he has any intention to start? Or who's going to make him do it if he says no? He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too.

29th April 2022, 12:55 PM	#1622
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy That doesn't make sense as a way to answer the question I asked. Both what "he" said and what he did are consistent with both alternative reasons. And there is not a single "he". We have the opinions of at least four people on both sides of the disagreement and not one said anything I recall about doubt that an indictment could be obtained. The "he" was notional, to illustrate the concept. The concept being, it doesn't matter whether we've heard any of them say it, we can see the outcome of their actions unfolding in realtime and draw inferences from that regardless of what they say or don't say. Orwell cautions against the use of cliches, but "actions speak louder than words" seems really apropos here.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

29th April 2022, 12:56 PM	#1623
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by Stacyhs He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too. Probably the court that ordered it would order some form of asset seizure to achieve compliance.
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29th April 2022, 01:41 PM	#1624
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,685	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Do we know if he's actually paying the fine? Or if he has any intention to start? Or who's going to make him do it if he says no? Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . .
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,685	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

29th April 2022, 02:16 PM	#1625
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by Paul2 Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . . I for one will laugh my ass off if the only jail time Trump does is a few months for contempt.
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29th April 2022, 03:03 PM	#1626
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 29,002	Originally Posted by Paul2 Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . . Which would go to appeal? Is the US legal system truly bottomless? I would despair about all this, except I pre-despaired some time back.
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29th April 2022, 03:21 PM	#1627
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,426	Originally Posted by Stacyhs He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too. No doubt he will appeal to a highly court. All the way the the Supreme Court, if necessary. Delay, delay, delay…

29th April 2022, 03:26 PM	#1628
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by GlennB Which would go to appeal? Is the US legal system truly bottomless? The appeals process includes some preemption of re-appealing consequences of the ruling already appealed. Plus appeals courts can decline to consider appeals, letting the lower court's ruling stand as-is. I doubt the US appeals system is any more "bottomless" than the Canadian or UKian or Frenchian or Swedenian systems.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division. Last edited by theprestige; 29th April 2022 at 03:34 PM.

29th April 2022, 03:35 PM	#1629
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,607	Originally Posted by Paul2 Maybe they should hold him in contempt of court if he doesn't pay the fine . . . . Actually, they can and fine him even more.

29th April 2022, 03:36 PM	#1630
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,010	Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B No doubt he will appeal to a highly court. All the way the the Supreme Court, if necessary. Delay, delay, delay… LOL. Heaven forbid that a citizen avail themselves of all the due process of law provided to them!
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29th April 2022, 03:39 PM	#1631
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 28,607	Originally Posted by theprestige LOL. Heaven forbid that a citizen avail themselves of all the due process of law provided to them! While I agree with the basic premise of this, Trump is well-known to use every delay tactic at his disposal in lawsuits in hope of wearing the other side down emotionally and financially so they just withdraw or settle out of court.

29th April 2022, 03:52 PM	#1632
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,685	Originally Posted by Stacyhs While I agree with the basic premise of this, Trump is well-known to use every delay tactic at his disposal in lawsuits in hope of wearing the other side down emotionally and financially so they just withdraw or settle out of court. Exactly as the founders intended! Which Federalist paper was that tactic in?
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,685	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

29th April 2022, 11:50 PM	#1633
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 92,987	Originally Posted by Stacyhs He wasn't obligated to pay it while under appeal but that's now gone. I doubt he has any intention of paying and I'd like to know the answer to the last question, too. He has assets a lien can be placed on, among other options.

30th April 2022, 12:07 AM	#1634
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,185	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger He has assets a lien can be placed on, among other options. But who will enforce the liens? The question isn't how will the can get kicked down the road again. The question is who will enforce the judgement that's been made. I, like at least two people ahead of me in the thread, want to know the answer.

30th April 2022, 12:22 AM	#1635
Susheel Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 3,040	Originally Posted by theprestige LOL. Heaven forbid that a citizen avail themselves of all the due process of law provided to them! Oh yes...I am sure that all American citizens have the "privilege" of taking full advantage of the "due process of the law." Or is it only available to those well heeled?
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