Criminal Charges Against Trump

[newyorkguy]

Realistically, public opinion is a powerful factor in these kinds of cases. And the public does seem to be turning on trump. As a lifetime New Yorker I have watched donald trump go down in flames over and over. The reality is, with trump it's always a crash landing.

Below are quotes from a Forbes business magazine article published this morning.

Quote:

More than 65% of those who believe former President Donald Trump worked to overturn the 2020 presidential election think he should be prosecuted for his actions, which roughly half of all voters believe constituted criminal behavior, according to a new poll from Morning Consult taken days after the January 6 committee finished its fifth public hearing [June 23rd] unveiling bombshell revelations about Trump’s behavior before and during the insurrection.

• About two-thirds of voters think Trump tried to change the outcome of the election, with 88% of Democrats believing he did so, 68% of independents and 40% of Republicans, according to the poll, which surveyed roughly 2,000 voters from June 24 to June 26.
• About 49% of all voters believe Trump committed a crime, the poll found.
• More than 55% of Republicans who think Trump attempted to overturn the results do not believe he committed a crime, however.

Forbes link

This poll was taken BEFORE Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony on Tuesday June 28th.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Realistically, public opinion is a powerful factor in these kinds of cases. And the public does seem to be turning on trump. As a lifetime New Yorker I have watched donald trump go down in flames over and over. The reality is, with trump it's always a crash landing.

Below are quotes from a Forbes business magazine article published this morning.


This poll was taken BEFORE Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony on Tuesday June 28th.

What's scary is the percentage of Republicans who don't think he committed a crime. Dumb*****.

[dmaker]

Weren't we supposed to hear about charges against Trump by June 30th? Can't recall if that was in SDNY or the Georgia case, though.

[Stacyhs]

Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Lindsey Graham, Jenna Ellis, Cleta Mitchell and Kenneth Chesebro have all been subpoenaed by a Georgia special grand jury in relation to an investigation into the attempt to overturn the 2020 election there.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/05/polit...ham/index.html

[Fast Eddie B]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Lindsey Graham, Jenna Ellis, Cleta Mitchell and Kenneth Chesebro have all been subpoenaed by a Georgia special grand jury in relation to an investigation into the attempt to overturn the 2020 election there.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/05/polit...ham/index.html

Sadly, my assumption is that they’ll refuse to appear, and we’ll face years of appeals and delays. At best, they’ll eventually appear and just plead the fifth. It’s a well known playbook that for the most part seems to have worked out well for them.

[Lennart Hyland]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

Sadly, my assumption is that they’ll refuse to appear, and we’ll face years of appeals and delays. At best, they’ll eventually appear and just plead the fifth. It’s a well known playbook that for the most part seems to have worked out well for them.

"Senator Lindsey Graham will not comply with subpoena in Georgia election probe"

- Link

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B

Sadly, my assumption is that they’ll refuse to appear, and we’ll face years of appeals and delays. At best, they’ll eventually appear and just plead the fifth. It’s a well known playbook that for the most part seems to have worked out well for them.

It has been discussed in news reports that this will not happen with the Grand Jury. They will very quickly be declared in contempt and arrested. In the case of a Congressional hearing they have no such power. They rely on the DoJ who can bring charges, but those can be appealed for months like Bannon currently is doing.

In a Grand Jury, the judge is involved who can enforce the subpoenas directly.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Lennart Hyland

"Senator Lindsey Graham will not comply with subpoena in Georgia election probe"

- Link

Might be true for a sitting Congressperson, I don't know. The others have no such immunity. It will be interesting if Graham's claim is upheld given he was involved in pressuring Georgia to claim fakes votes for Drumpf and that is a criminal charge.

But chances are Graham would plead the 5th.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Might be true for a sitting Congressperson, I don't know. The others have no such immunity. It will be interesting if Graham's claim is upheld given he was involved in pressuring Georgia to claim fakes votes for Drumpf and that is a criminal charge.

But chances are Graham would plead the 5th.

“You see the mob takes the Fifth,” [Trump] said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"

I always suspected Graham was part of the mob!

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

“You see the mob takes the Fifth,” [Trump] said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"

I always suspected Graham was part of the mob!

Are you kidding? There is no way the mob would take Graham.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

“You see the mob takes the Fifth,” [Trump] said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"

I always suspected Graham was part of the mob!

We already know what he did because we have the other half of the conversations. IIRC Graham called a number of other state trying to coerce them to falsify the vote counts.

This looks like a good description of both sides:
USA Today: Fact check: Claim about Sen. Lindsey Graham's calls to state officials is misleading

Quote:

Our rating: Partly false
Based on our research, the claim that Sen. Lindsey Graham "tried to manipulate vote counts" in Georgia, Arizona and Nevada is PARTLY FALSE. It's true that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said Graham appeared to suggest he find a method to throw out ballots that had been lawfully cast, though Graham disputes that characterization. It's also true Graham also made calls to officials in Arizona and Nevada, but no one — including one of the officials he spoke with — suggested that he "tried to manipulate vote counts" in either state.

You would think Graham would have wanted to testify and clear his name. He himself admitted calling 3 states.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

We already know what he did because we have the other half of the conversations. IIRC Graham called a number of other state trying to coerce them to falsify the vote counts.

This looks like a good description of both sides:
USA Today: Fact check: Claim about Sen. Lindsey Graham's calls to state officials is misleading

You would think Graham would have wanted to testify and clear his name. He himself admitted calling 3 states.

Graham "clearing" his name is not possible. He's done too much for it to mean anything other than "sniveling coward whose claimed principles change as often as his underwear and there's usually a big turd in them."

[The Great Zaganza]

Graham is not a reliable... anything.

[Segnosaur]

Just remember, this case is still going on. And Trump just lost in court... again...

From: CNN
New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday...The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24..

Certainly not unexpected, so its not like its a big surprise. Still, anytime Trump loses or suffers is a time to rejoice.

It is going to be a busy fall for Trump I predict.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

“You see the mob takes the Fifth,” [Trump] said. “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"

I always suspected Graham was part of the mob!

The Sopranos showed how they handle guys like that in the mob.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

The Sopranos showed I they handle guys like that in the mob.

American society and jurisprudence is actually very unlike what you see in The Sopranos.

I admit that most of what I know about Australia is based on Strictly Ballroom and Crocodile Dundee. Am I wrong? Should I should view Australians more through the lens of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert?

tl;dr;ontopic - stop basing your limited understanding of foreign cultures on rando fictions about those cultures. (And in rando fictions I of course include your media reports.)

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by theprestige

American society and jurisprudence is actually very unlike what you see in The Sopranos.

I admit that most of what I know about Australia is based on Strictly Ballroom and Crocodile Dundee. Am I wrong? Should I should view Australians more through the lens of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert?

tl;dr;ontopic - stop basing your limited understanding of foreign cultures on rando fictions about those cultures. (And in rando fictions I of course include your media reports.)

I am 100 percent sure you didn't understand my meaning. But welcome back.

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Just remember, this case is still going on. And Trump just lost in court... again...

From: CNN
New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday...The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24..

Certainly not unexpected, so its not like its a big surprise. Still, anytime Trump loses or suffers is a time to rejoice.

It is going to be a busy fall for Trump I predict.

Recall that Trump is not directly indicted here, just his company. Better than nothing but recall that this AG has the potential to pick up a case directly against Trump that he backburned earlier in the year depending on how this plays out.

[Susheel]

Originally Posted by theprestige

American society and jurisprudence is actually very unlike what you see in The Sopranos.

I admit that most of what I know about Australia is based on Strictly Ballroom and Crocodile Dundee. Am I wrong? Should I should view Australians more through the lens of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert?

tl;dr;ontopic - stop basing your limited understanding of foreign cultures on rando fictions about those cultures. (And in rando fictions I of course include your media reports.)

Maybe you need to read back a bit and understand the context in which that response was made.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Quote:

From: CNN
New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday...The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24

Recall that Trump is not directly indicted here, just his company. Better than nothing but recall that this AG has the potential to pick up a case directly against Trump that he backburned earlier in the year depending on how this plays out.

Yeah I remember. The AG isn't too popular with a lot of people right now over that. But, the case is at least an annoyance to Trump, and Weisselberg is pretty high up in the organization.

If he's convicted, maybe there is a slim chance that might cause Weisselberg to finally turn on Trump (once he is looking at real jail time). Or maybe the court victory might embolden the AG to go after others in the Trump organization for similar crimes.

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Or maybe the court victory might embolden the AG to go after others in the Trump organization for similar crimes.

IMO The most obvious thing this trial will measure relates to Michael Cohen: Is he credible on the stand if they use him, or does this case have enough substance if they don't.

The role of Cohen in obtaining this indictment was an argument in the motion to dismiss. The prosecutors responses to that make me think they are going to try to prosecute the case without Cohen's testimony.

[Pacal]

Meanwhile up here in Canada Conrad Black is having another ecstatic experience being up Trump's back door.

See https://nationalpost.com/opinion/con...resident-again.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Originally Posted by Pacal

Meanwhile up here in Canada Conrad Black is having another ecstatic experience being up Trump's back door.

See https://nationalpost.com/opinion/con...resident-again.

Eh. Lord "Tubby" at it again?

[stanfr]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Just remember, this case is still going on. And Trump just lost in court... again...

From: CNN
New York state judge denied the Trump Organization and its former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg's motions to dismiss tax fraud charges during a hearing Friday...The judge said jury selection would begin in the trial on October 24..

Certainly not unexpected, so its not like its a big surprise. Still, anytime Trump loses or suffers is a time to rejoice.

It is going to be a busy fall for Trump I predict.

All the recent video of Trump indicates he is morbidly obese, looks tired and on the verge of constant collapse. If he *physically* survives this fall they need to make a vaccine from his body chemistry, cause it surely would be the cure for all stress-related disease. It would be his one decent contribution to society.

[Segnosaur]

Some mixed news from the NY fraud case...

From: The Hill
The Trump Organization’s chief financial officer is coming close to reaching a plea deal in a case investigating whether he funneled off-the-books income to himself and other executives...Allen Weisselberg and his lawyers met with a judge and that a hearing is scheduled on Thursday in the case, pointing to a possible agreement being reached...Prosecutors had hoped that Weisselberg would eventually testify against Trump himself but ultimately refused, despite the potential deal being reached.

(The Trump organization would still have a trial for its part later in the year.)

It would be extremely disappointing if Weisselberg were able to shorten his sentence significantly without turning on Trump.

But, on the plus side, we will be able to say, without doubt, that the Trump organization has "tax cheats" working for them. And maybe the guilty plea might actually help with the cases involving the Trump organization even if Weisselberg doesn't testify.

(And we can always hope that the guilty plea might encourage the DA to be more aggressive in prosecuting other members of the Trump organization, although that is a rather faint hope.)

[stanfr]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Some mixed news from the NY fraud case...

From: The Hill
The Trump Organization’s chief financial officer is coming close to reaching a plea deal in a case investigating whether he funneled off-the-books income to himself and other executives...Allen Weisselberg and his lawyers met with a judge and that a hearing is scheduled on Thursday in the case, pointing to a possible agreement being reached...Prosecutors had hoped that Weisselberg would eventually testify against Trump himself but ultimately refused, despite the potential deal being reached.

(The Trump organization would still have a trial for its part later in the year.)

It would be extremely disappointing if Weisselberg were able to shorten his sentence significantly without turning on Trump.

But, on the plus side, we will be able to say, without doubt, that the Trump organization has "tax cheats" working for them. And maybe the guilty plea might actually help with the cases involving the Trump organization even if Weisselberg doesn't testify.

(And we can always hope that the guilty plea might encourage the DA to be more aggressive in prosecuting other members of the Trump organization, although that is a rather faint hope.)

Now that Weisselberg has pled, and won't be sentenced until after the October trial, one has to wonder how he got such a sweet deal when he was looking at 15 years. I would think that the testimony he has to give at the upcoming trial will be rock solid and undeniable proof that the organization was guilty of several crimes. Which implies that the Trump organization will likely be destroyed as a result. I just don't see how Trump will be able to avoid the implication of being guilty himself once his company is dissolved. I wonder how that will affect him personally.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by stanfr

Now that Weisselberg has pled, and won't be sentenced until after the October trial, one has to wonder how he got such a sweet deal when he was looking at 15 years. I would think that the testimony he has to give at the upcoming trial will be rock solid and undeniable proof that the organization was guilty of several crimes. Which implies that the Trump organization will likely be destroyed as a result. I just don't see how Trump will be able to avoid the implication of being guilty himself once his company is dissolved. I wonder how that will affect him personally.

He will do what he always does: Steal the most valuable assets, abandon all the rest including the employees and family to their fates, run away, and start another grift elsewhere. Be ready to see him declare bankruptcy, for example. Not like he hasn't done that before!

[ZiprHead]

Originally Posted by stanfr

Now that Weisselberg has pled, and won't be sentenced until after the October trial, one has to wonder how he got such a sweet deal when he was looking at 15 years. I would think that the testimony he has to give at the upcoming trial will be rock solid and undeniable proof that the organization was guilty of several crimes. Which implies that the Trump organization will likely be destroyed as a result. I just don't see how Trump will be able to avoid the implication of being guilty himself once his company is dissolved. I wonder how that will affect him personally.

If I were him, I'd stay away from staircases.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by stanfr

Now that Weisselberg has pled, and won't be sentenced until after the October trial, one has to wonder how he got such a sweet deal when he was looking at 15 years. I would think that the testimony he has to give at the upcoming trial will be rock solid and undeniable proof that the organization was guilty of several crimes. Which implies that the Trump organization will likely be destroyed as a result. I just don't see how Trump will be able to avoid the implication of being guilty himself once his company is dissolved. I wonder how that will affect him personally.

Excuse me... have you met any of his cultists and the current GOP in Congress?

[Segnosaur]

Not sure where this should go, but the civil case against Trump has been mentioned before.

From: CNBC
The New York Attorney General’s Office on Thursday asked a judge to bar former President Donald Trump from moving his businesses to a new holding company he formed amid a pending civil lawsuit...That request is spurred by concerns that the AG’s office would have difficulty getting Trump to pay a fine, if he loses the suit, as a result of his assets being held by a company that is not named as a defendant...On Sept. 21, the same day that Attorney General Letitia James sued Trump and the other defendants, her office saw that the Trump Organization had registered with New York’s secretary of state a new company, called “Trump Organization II LLC.” That new firm is incorporated in Delaware.

Smart woman, that Letitia James. Seems to be on the ball.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by stanfr

I just don't see how Trump will be able to avoid the implication of being guilty himself once his company is dissolved. I wonder how that will affect him personally.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Not sure where this should go, but the civil case against Trump has been mentioned before.

Okay, but what about criminal charges?

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Okay, but what about criminal charges?

The criminal trial against The Trump Organization is scheduled to start 11 days from now, 24OCT, last I heard. That's against the company, not DJT directly, but close enough.

[acbytesla]

I feel like I should be surprised by the level of Trump's stupidity.

Trump is about to be deposed for defamation against E.J. Carroll. He's done just about everything one can imagine to avoid this deposition including flying to Miami right before Hurricane Ian hit Florida.
His lawyers have been arguing that Trump had sovereign immunity because he defamed Carroll during a Presidential press conference. This although ridiculous might have protected him.

But Mr. Moron repeated what he said in that press conference in a statement he made yesterday.

He defamed her again and he's not President now!

Ooops I did it again.

(We really need a face slap emoji)

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I feel like I should be surprised by the level of Trump's stupidity.

Trump is about to be deposed for defamation against E.J. Carroll. He's done just about everything one can imagine to avoid this deposition including flying to Miami right before Hurricane Ian hit Florida.
His lawyers have been arguing that Trump had sovereign immunity because he defamed Carroll during a Presidential press conference. This although ridiculous might have protected him.

But Mr. Moron repeated what he said in that press conference in a statement he made yesterday.

He defamed her again and he's not President now!

Ooops I did it again.

(We really need a face slap emoji)

[Stacyhs]

Evidence from SS communications show they knew about plans to attack Capitol by the Proud Boys beforehand.

ETA: SS knew the evening of Jan. 5 that there were people being arrested for weapons, including an assault rifle, and death threats against Pence.

Multiple sources saying J6C is going to vote to subpoena Trump at end of hearing.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Okay, but what about criminal charges?

Same as before.... probably plenty of evidence to indict Trump for various fraudulent activities in New York, but the investigation under D.A. Bragg seems to have stopped. (Hopefully a successful civil trial will rekindle that case.)

More likely is that Trump will face prosecution over his handling of classified documents, and possibly over his election activities in georgia.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

He will do what he always does: Steal the most valuable assets, abandon all the rest including the employees and family to their fates, run away, and start another grift elsewhere. Be ready to see him declare bankruptcy, for example. Not like he hasn't done that before!

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Not sure where this should go, but the civil case against Trump has been mentioned before.

From: CNBC
The New York Attorney General’s Office on Thursday asked a judge to bar former President Donald Trump from moving his businesses to a new holding company he formed amid a pending civil lawsuit...That request is spurred by concerns that the AG’s office would have difficulty getting Trump to pay a fine, if he loses the suit, as a result of his assets being held by a company that is not named as a defendant...On Sept. 21, the same day that Attorney General Letitia James sued Trump and the other defendants, her office saw that the Trump Organization had registered with New York’s secretary of state a new company, called “Trump Organization II LLC.” That new firm is incorporated in Delaware.

Smart woman, that Letitia James. Seems to be on the ball.

Bingo.

[RecoveringYuppy]

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Same as before.... probably plenty of evidence to indict Trump for various fraudulent activities in New York, but the investigation under D.A. Bragg seems to have stopped. (Hopefully a successful civil trial will rekindle that case.)

It may not be going as fast as we all would like but it sure isn't stopped. It was just two months ago that Bragg obtained guilty pleas to 15 felonies from Weisselberg and the Trump Organization goes to trial in just 11 days.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by ZiprHead

If I were him [Weisselberg], I'd stay away from staircases.

Yep, this. Or high windows. They are SO treacherous.

[Segnosaur]

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Re: Criminal charges against Trump for financial crimes...

Quote:

Same as before.... probably plenty of evidence to indict Trump for various fraudulent activities in New York, but the investigation under D.A. Bragg seems to have stopped. (Hopefully a successful civil trial will rekindle that case.)

It may not be going as fast as we all would like but it sure isn't stopped.

Actually we don't know if its stopped or not (since such investigative work is usually done quietly, behind closed doors). They CLAIM that the investigation is active, which may be true, or may just be a face-saving measure. But, apparently there is no active grand jury in place (the last one expired and they didn't get a replacement), and they have started to return some of the evidence (such as documents) to the people it was taken from, which is usually only done if you know you're not going to trial.

Quote:

It was just two months ago that Bragg obtained guilty pleas to 15 felonies from Weisselberg and the Trump Organization goes to trial in just 11 days.

Not exactly all that impressive in my books.

First of all, while Weisselberg just plead guilty earlier this year, he was first indicted in 2021 (while Vance was still D.A., before Bragg took over at the start of this year.)

Secondly, some people have criticized the deal that lead to the Weisselberg guilty plea. Yes, he is expected to testify against the Trump organization. But the terms of his deal to not involve him testifying in a personal trial against Trump himself. And for that very limited cooperation, he saw a potential multi-year prison sentence reduced to only a few months.

ETA: Its should also be noted that the trial against the Trump organization seems to be spearheaded by Letitia James. Not sure if Bragg has any role in it, but its possible that he is only has a tertiary involvement.