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Tags police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 20th July 2021, 11:39 AM   #441
lobosrul5
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Slight hijack, but it does fall into the general topic/theme of the thread//

I actually think that's slightly backwards. As in there's a lot more people in LEO positions who got shoved in the metaphorical locker back in 4th grade than who did the shoving.

There's a lot more "Let me see you give me a purple nurple now Jimmy Glick from Ms. Rosenstein's biology class!" in the attitude of cops than not.
Seems extremely unlikely to me. Most of the patrols cops here are in good shape, athletic types. Not the nerdy or fat kid that was picked on, more like ex-football player.
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Old 20th July 2021, 12:55 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Or, from a different perspective, you want to help the community by making it safer
...by controlling people and being violent to them against their will. It may be well-intentioned, but the job description is to be the Hammer.

Quote:
It'd be like saying people doctors only because they want to either make a lot of money or fondle people's genitals.
What were you just saying on another thread about strawmen?

A doctor's tools and training are dominated by diagnoses and treatment. A cop's are dominated by retaining, hurting, and killing people.
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Old 20th July 2021, 12:58 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You don't become a cop unless you want to control others and be violent to them against their will. It's kind of in the job description.
Sure, I've met plenty of bouncers that enjoy getting rowdy too.

The difference is that bouncers don't have the expectation of total impunity, so that usually tempers their sadism a bit.

Slowly crushing people to death seems to be a uniquely cop form of torture.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 04:39 AM   #444
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NYPD is full of antivaxxers.

Quote:
The nation’s largest police force is still struggling to get its cops vaccinated against COVID-19 — with the latest figures showing just 43 percent have gotten the jab, The Post has learned
https://nypost.com/2021/07/21/nypd-l...riant-spreads/
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Old 22nd July 2021, 04:57 AM   #445
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US Congressional Rep calling for DOJ to investigate LASD deputy gang.

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Rep. Maxine Waters on Wednesday requested that the U.S. Department of Justice investigate allegations that a violent gang of deputies called the Executioners runs operations at the Los Angeles County sheriff’s Compton station.

“I ask that the DOJ take two immediate actions: launch an independent investigation into the existence of the ‘Executioners,’ both at the LASD Compton station and within the greater LASD community, and launch a pattern or practice investigation into the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department for potential civil rights and constitutional violations,” Waters (D-Los Angeles) wrote in a letter to the Atty. Gen. Merrick Garland and Asst. Atty. Gen. Kristen Clarke.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-investigation
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Old 22nd July 2021, 05:38 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
US Congressional Rep calling for DOJ to investigate LASD deputy gang.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-investigation

There was a scene in the science fiction series "Falling Skies" in which a character sarcastically asked a black man if he had been in a gang before the alien invasion. The man responded "The baddest gang around. The Boston PD."
It was meant as a joke then.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 05:49 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...by controlling people and being violent to them against their will.
No. You're just wrong. Most police officers seldom have to resort to any kind of violence.

Quote:
It may be well-intentioned, but the job description is to be the Hammer.
If it's well-intentioned then they don't want to control and be violent.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 01:22 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Most police officers seldom have to resort to any kind of violence.
And yet so many do... at the merest opportunity.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 04:22 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What is your evidence for this?
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's right next to the exact same evidence that cops are grown up high school bullies. Go find it.
When I was in college, medical field, on the first day of one of my classes the teacher asked us why we were taking the class. One of the guys in the class said he was originally in criminal law (or whatever it was called). He wanted to be a cop.

He said he dropped that major and went into medical because most all of his classmates were either the high school bullies and wanted to continue doing so, or they were the bullied and were now seeking payback. He said the thought of sitting next to these guys eight hours a day every day sickened him.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 06:49 PM   #450
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I think it is probably the job that makes the cop a bully in a lot of cases. Power corrupts and all that. I know two people who became cops. One wasn't a bully in school or picked on. He was big but a decent dude. I could see the job changing him though. I think his Dad was a cop. Smallish town.

The other, a super nice guy I've known since his birth. Intelligent and thoughtful.

I have no idea what they are like now.

I think many types of people become cops which is why not all cops are Derek Chauvin. It is easy to get carried away though when you have authority, and it probably also depends on where you work...big city, small town...
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Old 22nd July 2021, 09:09 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
And yet so many do... at the merest opportunity.
Too many, perhaps, but it's likely not wrong to consider the problematically violent offenders to be a relatively small minority that gets oversized attention for obvious reasons. With that said, focusing on the violent offenders, specifically, makes it far too easy to overlook how lots of the cops who are not violent offenders and too much of the judicial system go out of their way to protect the violent offenders from receiving real consequences for their offenses.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 05:21 AM   #452
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Too many, perhaps, but it's likely not wrong to consider the problematically violent offenders to be a relatively small minority that gets oversized attention for obvious reasons. With that said, focusing on the violent offenders, specifically, makes it far too easy to overlook how lots of the cops who are not violent offenders and too much of the judicial system go out of their way to protect the violent offenders from receiving real consequences for their offenses.
That, and screening is only part of the solution. How police are trained and the effectiveness of accountability methods will almost certainly change the behavior of officers. Police are not divided into good and bad. Just like anyone else, they have impulses from both, in varying amounts, and what is reinforced is what will emerge most. Behavior that is successful will be repeated. So it's a huge mistake to treat it as a sorting task without paying attention to how the job itself affects their choices.

A reformed institution and policing culture could see a "good cop" made of someone who would otherwise end their career in a courtroom on TV.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 06:19 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
And yet so many do... at the merest opportunity.
It's easy to say that when you look at select events rather than statistics. You know that most police officers never draw their gun in the course of their careers? And that the US isn't the only country in the world?
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Old 23rd July 2021, 09:56 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's easy to say that when you look at select events rather than statistics. You know that most police officers never draw their gun in the course of their careers? And that the US isn't the only country in the world?

I understand what you are saying, here. But I don't see how it is relevant.

The point isn't to try and find solutions to improve the behavior of cops who are already behaving well. It is to find solutions to stop the ones who aren't.

Whether those cops comprise a majority of the forces or not is hardly important. They exist, and the numbers, however small, are not inconsequential.

Worse still, they exist within a system which has been designed to protect them from their actions, which can do little to dissuade others from embarking on the same path.

Then, also, these cops you talk about who do behave well do not seem inclined to do anything to improve the situation. Quite the opposite. They close ranks and defend the worst among them.

How good is that sort of behavior? In my opinion that makes them accessories. Perhaps not equally guilty, but their hands are far from clean.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 10:04 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I understand what you are saying, here. But I don't see how it is relevant.

The point isn't to try and find solutions to improve the behavior of cops who are already behaving well. It is to find solutions to stop the ones who aren't.
But that's not what I was addressing. I was initially responding to Thermal's claim that all people who become cops want to control people through violence. That's simply not true.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 11:00 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Then, also, these cops you talk about who do behave well do not seem inclined to do anything to improve the situation. Quite the opposite. They close ranks and defend the worst among them.

How good is that sort of behavior? In my opinion that makes them accessories. Perhaps not equally guilty, but their hands are far from clean.
I think this is a situation that has to be addressed, but I'm not sure how. So maybe examine why cops either cover or turn a blind eye to the transgressions of their fellow officers. I think it might be a little simplistic to just label them complicit and blame it all on police culture. Let me explain before you start yelling....

No one likes a tattle-tale. That's ingrained in us from grade school up. The kid who tells on another kid is seen in as much (or more) of a negative light than the kid who was doing something wrong.

The movie "Scent of a Woman" comes to mind. Al Pacino's speech begins with "But not a snitch!" and then goes on to talk about integrity. It's a bit more complex than that, but being a "snitch" is not associated with integrity. At least not on the surface. (I know, there's more to it in the movie.)

In other careers, most people don't want to inform on their colleagues either, for reasons that, in my opinion, go back to grade school. No one wants to be the outsider in the group. And the group doesn't trust the person who rats on Joe, even if the group doesn't like or trust Joe or the things Joe does either. Of course, stealing office supplies, snooping through the Boss's desk, or even faking numbers in a time report are of a different magnitude than what we are talking about here. But still, it applies.

Perhaps, more so, actually. If you're a snitch at the office, no one talks to you at the water cooler and you aren't included in lunch plans. And yes, that sucks and leads people to find new jobs. (It's probably why harassment is often not reported.) But for a police officer or a soldier, you might find yourself in situations where you are depending on people who don't trust you and who, as a result of reciprocity, you don't trust either.

I didn't write the above to in any way excuse the officers who don't report their fellows. I often rant to my wife that other officers present are accomplices. In my mind, the correct thing to do, having just witnessed another officer commit a crime, is to cuff him and put him in the back of the car like any other criminal. (I also recognize that this isn't particularly practical.)

But if you want to address the silence of other officers, you have to recognize where it comes from and I don't think it's unique to police culture.

In theory, body cameras should help because they would not only record the crime, but make it so that witnessing officers have little choice but to speak up or at least speak the truth when confronted.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 11:06 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
But that's not what I was addressing. I was initially responding to Thermal's claim that all people who become cops want to control people through violence. That's simply not true.
It's untrue and profoundly unhelpful when trying to figure out how to fix the problem. A police culture has been built up wherein cops are trained to see themselves as being at war, a war in which they can only trust their colleagues and everyone else is an enemy combatant.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 11:14 AM   #458
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Just as in any career, we have to try and normalize a line of "too far". The stakes are higher in policing, of course. Fudge a time report and it doesn't have to be anyone else's business on your team, and if it causes a problem for the team I can see preferring to settle it without escalating it to management or whatever. That makes total sense.

Plant evidence on a suspect--too far. The public mistrust built from that can have deadly consequences, even if caring about the suspect's screwed up life isn't on the table. People should be afraid of being rejected by their own teammates for stuff like that.

How to get there from here? I don't know. Too often "snitches get stitches" is a sociopath's shield from consequences.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 11:15 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's untrue
It's untrue that most police officers never need to use their guns? It's untrue that most police officers rarely have to use force in the line of duty?

Quote:
and profoundly unhelpful when trying to figure out how to fix the problem.
Maybe you missed what I said in the post you quoted, but I was addressing a specific claim about the reason why people become cops. You're for some reason trying to make it about something else.

Quote:
A police culture has been built up wherein cops are trained to see themselves as being at war, a war in which they can only trust their colleagues and everyone else is an enemy combatant.
I'm not denying that there's a serious problem with law enforcement in the US. I'm disagreeing with thermal that people always become police officers in order to violently control people. It's a ridiculous hyperbole.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 12:25 PM   #460
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's untrue that most police officers never need to use their guns? It's untrue that most police officers rarely have to use force in the line of duty?



Maybe you missed what I said in the post you quoted, but I was addressing a specific claim about the reason why people become cops. You're for some reason trying to make it about something else.



I'm not denying that there's a serious problem with law enforcement in the US. I'm disagreeing with thermal that people always become police officers in order to violently control people. It's a ridiculous hyperbole.
I was agreeing with you. Does that change your interpretation of what I wrote?
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Old 24th July 2021, 03:36 PM   #461
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Wow

I can't wait to hear the excuses!
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Old 24th July 2021, 05:10 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Wow

I can't wait to hear the excuses!
It was the wind.

That cop should be put in jail for that. If not for the video the guy could have his entire life ruined at the whim of this, or any, cop. He still could for all we know. This is a big deal.

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Old 24th July 2021, 06:09 PM   #463
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Lots of comments along the lines of

"We need more context than this. "

"Could simply be that he just took that off the driver and was placing it on the seat for safe keeping."
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Old 25th July 2021, 02:10 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lots of comments along the lines of

"We need more context than this. "

"Could simply be that he just took that off the driver and was placing it on the seat for safe keeping."
This feels like the right place for the old "laughing dog" emote?
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Old 25th July 2021, 06:47 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Lots of comments along the lines of

"We need more context than this. "

"Could simply be that he just took that off the driver and was placing it on the seat for safe keeping."
In my experience (*cough*) such evidence retrieved from a vehicle goes on the hood of the cruiser right in front of the camera.

Also, they don't start the search with the occupant(s) still in the car.

ETA: Also, the gloves go on before any of that.

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Old 25th July 2021, 07:56 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I was agreeing with you. Does that change your interpretation of what I wrote?
Maybe. I have to sleep on it.
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Old 25th July 2021, 10:40 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It was the wind.

That cop should be put in jail for that. If not for the video the guy could have his entire life ruined at the whim of this, or any, cop. He still could for all we know. This is a big deal.
On the other end of things, getting caught planting drugs throws every other previous conviction that came about as the result of him finding drugs in the car are in question. A lot of legitimately guilty people could go free.
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Old 25th July 2021, 11:36 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
On the other end of things, getting caught planting drugs throws every other previous conviction that came about as the result of him finding drugs in the car are in question. A lot of legitimately guilty people could go free.
You would think that this fact - and it is an important fact - would lead even thin-blue-line types to take a hard stance against these kinds of corrupt cops, but more often than not in my experience they either blame the person who caught them or the system for delegitimizing all of his police work after "just one incident" of deliberately framing an innocent person.
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Old 25th July 2021, 12:01 PM   #469
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The Caledonia police have released a statement saying that while the officer shouldn't have thrown anything into the vehicle, the bag he threw ultimately didn't have drugs in it and therefore cannot be a case of planting evidence. According to the police department, body camera video "which will be released soon", shows the police finding the empty bag in the driver's pocket while searching him, but verifying that the bag is empty. It is not explained why, of all the possessions in the driver's pockets, only the empty bag specifically was handed to another police officer who then carried it up to the car and threw it into the back seat.

The police department is also still "investigating" why the driver of the vehicle was handcuffed after being searched (not shown in the video) even after a search of his person didn't reveal any illegal items. The stop was a speeding stop, allegedly.
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Old 25th July 2021, 12:16 PM   #470
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Someone on the comments page of that police department's facebook noted that the "empty" bag might have traces of something that will allow them to bring charges. They speculate that it was exactly an attempt to plant something, but it was changed to their excuses when the officer realized he was being filmed.
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Old 25th July 2021, 12:54 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Someone on the comments page of that police department's facebook noted that the "empty" bag might have traces of something that will allow them to bring charges. They speculate that it was exactly an attempt to plant something, but it was changed to their excuses when the officer realized he was being filmed.
Indeed. For that matter, though, even if there was nothing technically "illegal" in the bag and no charges were actually made, it could still very easily be used as a pretext for extortion and harassment. That there was nothing technically "illegal" in it just offers them a way out. It was practically a textbook example of something being planted, it's just that the particular plan afterwords is not known.
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Old 25th July 2021, 02:58 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Indeed. For that matter, though, even if there was nothing technically "illegal" in the bag and no charges were actually made, it could still very easily be used as a pretext for extortion and harassment. That there was nothing technically "illegal" in it just offers them a way out. It was practically a textbook example of something being planted, it's just that the particular plan afterwords is not known.
Or more likely as a pretext for a non-consensual search of the vehicle in the hopes of actually finding contraband. This seems rather likely to me as the officer turned his body in a manner so that the throwing of the bag was not visible on his BWC.
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Old 25th July 2021, 03:13 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Or more likely as a pretext for a non-consensual search of the vehicle in the hopes of actually finding contraband. This seems rather likely to me as the officer turned his body in a manner so that the throwing of the bag was not visible on his BWC.
This is my feeling too. Puts on his gloves, takes a look in the car because the door is open, sees an alleged "corner cut" bag on the seat - right next to a lighter, even - which even if empty, creates probable cause.
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Old 25th July 2021, 03:24 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Or more likely as a pretext for a non-consensual search of the vehicle in the hopes of actually finding contraband. This seems rather likely to me as the officer turned his body in a manner so that the throwing of the bag was not visible on his BWC.
I'd count that as included under harassment, personally.
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Old 25th July 2021, 03:45 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I'd count that as included under harassment, personally.
Fair enough. Won't argue with that.
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Old 25th July 2021, 05:08 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
And yet so many do... at the merest opportunity.
I suspect that there is somewhat a sample bias in this. The headline "Nice cop gives motorist warning and wishes them a pleasant day." just doesn't sell papers.

It's like suspecting all teachers of being pedophiles because of the many headlines about the ones that are.
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Old 25th July 2021, 06:23 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
On the other end of things, getting caught planting drugs throws every other previous conviction that came about as the result of him finding drugs in the car are in question. A lot of legitimately guilty people could go free.
Or a lot of innocents
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Old 25th July 2021, 07:04 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I suspect that there is somewhat a sample bias in this. The headline "Nice cop gives motorist warning and wishes them a pleasant day." just doesn't sell papers.

It's like suspecting all teachers of being pedophiles because of the many headlines about the ones that are.
There is. But usually the real story is how the organization reacts. Do they clean house or do they protect the organization at the expense of additional victims down the road?
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Old 25th July 2021, 07:19 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Or a lot of innocents
That's a given. That's why I said "on the other end of things".... For those sort of people who think that the end justify the means. I.e. "he didn't have drugs on him, but I KNOW he's a dealer so I planted them to get him off the street"

If your primary concern is that the bad guys go to jail, so you'd look the other way if it meant bad guys going to jail, then this sort of action means a lot of actual bad guys may go free.

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Old 26th July 2021, 04:46 AM   #480
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Quote:
Dashcam video shows Detroit police officers flee from shooting happening in front of them
Quote:
The victim who be seen here in the blue shirt was struck but survived.

A sedan pulled up in front of him, a man in the back seat hung outside the window and opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle. All of it was captured on police dashcam.

The officers drove off, but at some point turned back around to help the victim.
Seems there's a lot of begging the question when it comes to the idea that flooding the streets with cops will actually prevent violent crime. Driving away from an active shooting is probably not a good PR move for these departments desperately trying to justify their bloated budgets.
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