[Continuation] General UK Politics III - Dumb and Dumber - Page 36

Mojo · 25th October 2022, 10:41 AM

Wrexham move swiftly to ban message on Paul Mullin’s boots

Quote:

A Wrexham statement read: “The club can confirm that the boots revealed by Paul Mullin on social media will not be worn tonight, or in any other Wrexham AFC fixture and that the photographs taken at the Racecourse Ground were done so without our knowledge or approval.

Lothian · 25th October 2022, 10:54 AM

The local Tories are revolting.

So are the rest.

Bob001 · 25th October 2022, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Exactly. As he had a Green Card he was liable to pay taxes in the USA. You have to complete a form to claim exemption. If he was paying US taxes, he wasn't paying UK taxes and vice versa assuming he claimed exemption from one or the other.
.....

Exemption is the wrong word. As a U.S. resident he would be liable for U.S. taxes on his world-wide income. But as a UK citizen and resident he would pay taxes in the UK, and would claim the amount he paid there as a deduction or credit on his U.S. taxes. He doesn't get "exempted" in either place. And I don't know whether the UK taxes all income from all global sources, as the U.S. does, or whether it just taxes income from UK sources, in which case he might well owe U.S. taxes on income earned outside the UK.

Chances are that as a near-billionaire he has income from multiple sources, and will hire the best lawyers to minimize his taxes everywhere.

GlennB · 25th October 2022, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Exactly. As he had a Green Card he was liable to pay taxes in the USA. You have to complete a form to claim exemption. If he was paying US taxes, he wasn't paying UK taxes and vice versa assuming he claimed exemption from one or the other.

When we lived in Greece we paid Greek taxes on our total income, wherever it was earned. But if tax was deducted at source in the UK on some element of that, we weren't necessarily in the clear.

Let's say a small pension was taxed in the UK, amounting to £100 total tax in a year. If the Greek tax on the income would have been £150 (Euro equivalent) then we were still obliged to pay the difference, i.e. £50.

There was no absolute exemption, just an allowance for tax already paid.

angrysoba · 25th October 2022, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

The local Tories are revolting.

So are the rest.

Whatever could have made lifelong Tories who seemed to support any old useless tosser suddenly unable to support Rishi Sunak?

Agatha · 25th October 2022, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Exactly. As he had a Green Card he was liable to pay taxes in the USA. You have to complete a form to claim exemption. If he was paying US taxes, he wasn't paying UK taxes and vice versa assuming he claimed exemption from one or the other.

No, that's not how that it works. It's not an either/or, it's a both. He could claim an allowance for UK tax paid, but not exemption.

He was UK resident at the time he held a Green Card. He was therefore liable to both UK tax and US tax, but as a UK resident his US tax liability was decreased by the 'foreign earned income exclusions' and/or 'foreign income tax credits'. He was obligated to file a US tax return as well as (not instead of) a UK tax return.

If he had a liability to pay US tax on something that's not taxable in the UK, he would have to pay it just like Johnson had to pay US CGT on selling his only or main residence in the UK.

acbytesla · 25th October 2022, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

The local Tories are revolting.

You said it. They stink on ice.

jimbob · 25th October 2022, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

You said it. They stink on ice.

Yup, it was well played by Lothian.

dudalb · 25th October 2022, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Ree Smog was still complaining that Sunak had been "disloyal" to BlowJob and then petulantly added something to the effect of "Well, he wouldn't want me anyway!"

And everyone who's ever heard him sliming around BBC news studios knows that Lewis is only fit for sending out to do the early morning interview round when someone has to defend whatever scandal has just broken (he did this a lot for BlowJob), even if all he does is sound slimy and shifty and make youi foget for a few moments whatever thing it is you should be outraged by, as in "Hang on there! Did that ****-wit really just say that? Does he expect anyone with a functioning brain to believe it?" It's a bit like Tom Wolfe's flak catchers in "Mau-Mau-ing the Flak Catchers".

Lppks as if Sunak took him at his word.

a_unique_person · 25th October 2022, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

The local Tories are revolting.

So are the rest.

Brexit was supposed to prevent this kind of thing.

Norman Alexander · 25th October 2022, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Brexit was supposed to prevent this kind of thing.

Do you mean swarthy subcontinental gentlemen becoming politicians and ultimately prime minister? Yes, it was. Some frog-faced fascist ****** called Farage went on about that sort of thing, as I recall.

timhau · 25th October 2022, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Whatever could have made lifelong Tories who seemed to support any old useless tosser suddenly unable to support Rishi Sunak?

I wonder if he'd be more palatable if he agreed to use the service entrance to 10 Downing Street.

Susheel · 25th October 2022, 10:26 PM

As the late great Terry Pratchett once proclaimed, "Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk." The right-wing glory appropriators in India are ecstatic over this...particularly since his public molestation of a cow to show how Hindu he is. Just saying that Rishi being brown in no way means that he cannot be a bigot. Just look at Preeti Patel.

Filippo Lippi · 25th October 2022, 10:54 PM

Sunak doesn't agree with Priti Patel, Braverman, and, by extension, Farage and the BNP, he just finds it useful to to march alongside them, to never call them out, to enable policies that will help them vote for him. Beneath contempt

The Don · 25th October 2022, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Whatever could have made lifelong Tories who seemed to support any old useless tosser suddenly unable to support Rishi Sunak?

What on earth would ever prompt an NHS employee in Bishop Auckland to be a lifelong Tory?

Vixen · 25th October 2022, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

No. He is UK Resident so will pay taxes here. He should get exemption from paying in the US. A green card does not trump everything else.

If he is registered as a US citizen then by default he is subject to US tax.

Vixen · 25th October 2022, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

I think Larry is psychic. When Truss bent down to stroke him, he haughtily snubbed her.

Vixen · 25th October 2022, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Similarly with his spouse's non dom status, where the Chancellor's household benefitted from his spouse claiming that her main country of residence was not the UK, which he was supposed to serve, and where it is avoiding taxes in a way that looks like a technicality.

And who knows? I wonder whether any of Johnson, Sunak or Javid ever opted for non-dom status when they had their green card? After all, this is what high-earning pop stars do to avoid UK taxes.

Vixen · 25th October 2022, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Especially as there was next to no government going on for most of that, what with a dead queen and party conferences...So I reckon they were at work for about 4 days, which hardly qualifies you for a pay cheque anywhere else than on the Westminster Gravy Train.

Hush your mouth. They were in two-weeks mourning.

Vixen · 25th October 2022, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I take it that Jeremy Hunt is expected to remain in place as Chancellor?

Everyone else can be replaced.

A good Prime Minister needs someone to sack when things go wrong.

Vixen · 26th October 2022, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I like the top right photo - showing the bloke praying!

Takes a smarmy git to recognise another.

Vixen · 26th October 2022, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Michel H

The ministerial code hasn't changed (as far as I know), but the Prime Minister has:

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suella...Home_secretary)

This lady seems to have some Indian origins, like your new Prime Minister.

I don't mean this as a criticism, though. It is perhaps time to bring some Asian seriousness (?) to an overly nationalist (?) UK.

Like Sunak, Braverman is ethnically Indian and both have parents/grandparents that come from both East Africa and the Indian subcontinent. Technically speaking, Sunak's father was born in present day Pakistan, but before the 1948 partition. He is Hindu, she is a ~~tofu-eating~~ Buddhist.

The interesting thing is, Braverman fell out with Truss because Truss, as part of a trade deal with India, wanted to bring in Indian labour to fill gaps in the UK economy. Braverman was absolutely furious at the idea of 'all these bloody immigrants coming in', hence the 90-minute screaming row they had.

zooterkin · 26th October 2022, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

If he is registered as a US citizen then by default he is subject to US tax.

Sunak had a green card, he was not a US citizen.

Vixen · 26th October 2022, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Exemption is the wrong word. As a U.S. resident he would be liable for U.S. taxes on his world-wide income. But as a UK citizen and resident he would pay taxes in the UK, and would claim the amount he paid there as a deduction or credit on his U.S. taxes. He doesn't get "exempted" in either place. And I don't know whether the UK taxes all income from all global sources, as the U.S. does, or whether it just taxes income from UK sources, in which case he might well owe U.S. taxes on income earned outside the UK.

Chances are that as a near-billionaire he has income from multiple sources, and will hire the best lawyers to minimize his taxes everywhere.

Rule of thumb is that if you work on UK soil or your company is on British soil, you pay UK taxes. As a US citizen you are liable to pay tax on any earnings you make anywhere in the world. That is the default position of the US IRS. The onus is on you to declare the exemption under OECD tax treaty rules. It would be most unusual for the US IRS not to respect the local tax laws of another country within the treaty.

Vixen · 26th October 2022, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

When we lived in Greece we paid Greek taxes on our total income, wherever it was earned. But if tax was deducted at source in the UK on some element of that, we weren't necessarily in the clear.

Let's say a small pension was taxed in the UK, amounting to £100 total tax in a year. If the Greek tax on the income would have been £150 (Euro equivalent) then we were still obliged to pay the difference, i.e. £50.

There was no absolute exemption, just an allowance for tax already paid.

Greece is in the EU. If they are demanding a tax difference, that will be because of their own local laws. Seems unusual to me that they demand tax on something that has been taxed at source in the UK.

Darat · 26th October 2022, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

And who knows? I wonder whether any of Johnson, Sunak or Javid ever opted for non-dom status when they had their green card? After all, this is what high-earning pop stars do to avoid UK taxes.

Johnson never had a green card.

zooterkin · 26th October 2022, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

And who knows? I wonder whether any of Johnson, Sunak or Javid ever opted for non-dom status when they had their green card? After all, this is what high-earning pop stars do to avoid UK taxes.

You’re getting a bit confused. Sunak is the only one to have had a green card, as far as I’m aware. Javid was registered as a non-dom for a time due to his father being from Pakistan. Johnson was a US citizen due to birth.

Vixen · 26th October 2022, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Agatha

No, that's not how that it works. It's not an either/or, it's a both. He could claim an allowance for UK tax paid, but not exemption.

He was UK resident at the time he held a Green Card. He was therefore liable to both UK tax and US tax, but as a UK resident his US tax liability was decreased by the 'foreign earned income exclusions' and/or 'foreign income tax credits'. He was obligated to file a US tax return as well as (not instead of) a UK tax return.

If he had a liability to pay US tax on something that's not taxable in the UK, he would have to pay it just like Johnson had to pay US CGT on selling his only or main residence in the UK.

Under the OECD tax convention, ISTM he still would not have had to pay the Capital Gains Tax twice. As you know, with CGT your spouse's personal allowance can come into it. I dare say Johnson paid the CGT to the USA because he classed himself as non-dom. Just guessing. As I can't think why else he would not have paid the UK CGT.

junkshop · 26th October 2022, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

If he is registered as a US citizen then by default he is subject to US tax.

He was never "registered as a US citizen". As a green card holder he was a 'Lawful Permanent Resident', and as such subject to US tax on worldwide income (but not allowed to vote in federal elections, 'cos taxation without representation is fine).

ETA: ninja'd so many times....

Dragon · 26th October 2022, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

I think Larry is psychic. When Truss bent down to stroke him, he haughtily snubbed her.

Cats know.

Lothian · 26th October 2022, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

Under the OECD tax convention, ISTM he still would not have had to pay the Capital Gains Tax twice. As you know, with CGT your spouse's personal allowance can come into it. I dare say Johnson paid the CGT to the USA because he classed himself as non-dom. Just guessing. As I can't think why else he would not have paid the UK CGT.

Rather than wild irrelevant speculation on whether Rishi or Boris paid tax in America I dare say there are more important issues to discuss

Dragon · 26th October 2022, 01:02 AM

I wonder what Larry thinks of the reinstated Home Secretary?

People focused on her obvious inhumanity and her dream of seeing immigrants being flown to Rwanda but the equally telling part here is that it’s all about headlines in the right wing press.

https://youtu.be/cZqYxJuA-8o

The Don · 26th October 2022, 01:07 AM

Our chocolate fireguard of a local MP finally has his wishes come true. After two candidates turned it down, David TC Davies is finally Welsh secretary.

I look forward to a new low in relationships between Westminster and the Welsh Assembly. David TC Davies thinks the Welsh Assembly is completely useless and unnecessary, I expect that Mark Drakeford reciprocates those feelings.

Lothian · 26th October 2022, 01:24 AM

Rishi is right that were are facing huge economic challenges, mainly from brexit (4% hit to GDP). I think radical measures are needed to stimulate growth. These could include joining a single market with those most likely to buy from us. Incentives for companies to invest. Contracting with Universities to research. Nationalising certain industries where we currently boost the profits of foreign governments. Infrastructure improvements. House building. Incentives to foreign workers. Etc

Instead of setting out on a radical project to stimulate the economy his focus appears to be to unite the Tory party. I guess, rather than hard choices, he will be looking for popular gestures to raise Tory polling at the expense of growth.

He has united around the top table the people who have doubled our debt as a percentage of GDP since the labour 'theres no money left' note, with the 'cut taxes for the rich' trickle down 'austerity them till they bleed...'ers. He has also promised to go back to Johnson's manifesto that has not delivered.

From successfully identifying the problem he doesn't seem to be trying to address it.

Carrot Flower King · 26th October 2022, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

The local Tories are revolting.

So are the rest.

Yeah, I read that piece. I've long been baffled how any nurse could be a Tory voter, let alone party member.

And some of the comments BTL show what sort of problems we have as a country...

Lothian · 26th October 2022, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Yeah, I read that piece. I've long been baffled how any nurse could be a Tory voter, let alone party member.

And some of the comments BTL show what sort of problems we have as a country...

This is not Cruella resigning as home secretary. You have to ask why a news source finds out about and contacts a retired nurse from Bishop.

I suspect there is more to her background.

The Don · 26th October 2022, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

Rishi is right that were are facing huge economic challenges, mainly from brexit (4% hit to GDP). I think radical measures are needed to stimulate growth. These could include joining a single market with those most likely to buy from us. Incentives for companies to invest. Contracting with Universities to research. Nationalising certain industries where we currently boost the profits of foreign governments. Infrastructure improvements. House building. Incentives to foreign workers. Etc

Instead of setting out on a radical project to stimulate the economy his focus appears to be to unite the Tory party. I guess, rather than hard choices, he will be looking for popular gestures to raise Tory polling at the expense of growth.

He has united around the top table the people who have doubled our debt as a percentage of GDP since the labour 'theres no money left' note, with the 'cut taxes for the rich' trickle down 'austerity them till they bleed...'ers. He has also promised to go back to Johnson's manifesto that has not delivered.

From successfully identifying the problem he doesn't seem to be trying to address it.

Again, this goes back to the underlying problem with all Conservative governments since Theresa May's (and arguably well before that) - the government simply isn't interested in governing, merely generating positive headlines to keep them in power.

It's arguable that the corner that the Conservatives have painted themselves into, hard Brexit, bungled Covid and promises to the ERG and other vulture capitalists have made effective government impossible but they've painted themselves into the corner and internal party squabbles (which, let us not forget were the catalyst behind Brexit in any case) prevent them from taking any of the sensible steps you mention.

The Conservative Party is the only threat to Rishi Sunak's premiership for the next 2+ years which is why it is sensible for him to focus solely on addressing internal party issues. If he were to try to fix the economy, he would alienate party members and find himself out on his ear.

tl;dr He's not tackling the problem because there's no mileage for him in doing so

Gulliver Foyle · 26th October 2022, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

What on earth would ever prompt an NHS employee in Bishop Auckland to be a lifelong Tory?

Self loathing?

Darat · 26th October 2022, 03:28 AM

The problem as I see it is that the Tories implemented the policies they wanted to that they started in the 1970s and continued with the election of Cameron - just slightly tempered by Cameron's personal liberalism that he shared with Clegg.

"Austerity" was the camouflage they used this time but it was the same old conservatism.

They have pretty much achieved their goals, the country is as they wanted it to be, sure there is the formality of privatising NHS England but that is the only big ticket item left.

That their policies haven't resulted in the benefits they claimed they would is not because their policies have failed but because the claimed benefits were lies, their policies were never meant to benefit all, never meant to "level up" and so on.

This is Tory England (and of course that means largely a Tory UK).

catsmate · 26th October 2022, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Wow.

Indeed.

25th October 2022, 10:41 AM	#1401
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 36,654	Wrexham move swiftly to ban message on Paul Mullin’s boots Quote: A Wrexham statement read: “The club can confirm that the boots revealed by Paul Mullin on social media will not be worn tonight, or in any other Wrexham AFC fixture and that the photographs taken at the Racecourse Ground were done so without our knowledge or approval.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky Last edited by Mojo; 25th October 2022 at 10:44 AM.

25th October 2022, 12:30 PM	#1403
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 16,306	Originally Posted by Vixen Exactly. As he had a Green Card he was liable to pay taxes in the USA. You have to complete a form to claim exemption. If he was paying US taxes, he wasn't paying UK taxes and vice versa assuming he claimed exemption from one or the other. ..... Exemption is the wrong word. As a U.S. resident he would be liable for U.S. taxes on his world-wide income. But as a UK citizen and resident he would pay taxes in the UK, and would claim the amount he paid there as a deduction or credit on his U.S. taxes. He doesn't get "exempted" in either place. And I don't know whether the UK taxes all income from all global sources, as the U.S. does, or whether it just taxes income from UK sources, in which case he might well owe U.S. taxes on income earned outside the UK. Chances are that as a near-billionaire he has income from multiple sources, and will hire the best lawyers to minimize his taxes everywhere.
	Last edited by Bob001; 25th October 2022 at 12:32 PM.

25th October 2022, 02:19 PM	#1404
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 29,009	Originally Posted by Vixen Exactly. As he had a Green Card he was liable to pay taxes in the USA. You have to complete a form to claim exemption. If he was paying US taxes, he wasn't paying UK taxes and vice versa assuming he claimed exemption from one or the other. When we lived in Greece we paid Greek taxes on our total income, wherever it was earned. But if tax was deducted at source in the UK on some element of that, we weren't necessarily in the clear. Let's say a small pension was taxed in the UK, amounting to £100 total tax in a year. If the Greek tax on the income would have been £150 (Euro equivalent) then we were still obliged to pay the difference, i.e. £50. There was no absolute exemption, just an allowance for tax already paid.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. MS Estonia CT is a clock with no hands." - Blobby

25th October 2022, 02:31 PM	#1405
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 33,733	Originally Posted by Lothian The local Tories are revolting. So are the rest. Whatever could have made lifelong Tories who seemed to support any old useless tosser suddenly unable to support Rishi Sunak?
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

25th October 2022, 02:50 PM	#1406
Agatha Winking at the Moon Administrator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 15,903	Originally Posted by Vixen Exactly. As he had a Green Card he was liable to pay taxes in the USA. You have to complete a form to claim exemption. If he was paying US taxes, he wasn't paying UK taxes and vice versa assuming he claimed exemption from one or the other. No, that's not how that it works. It's not an either/or, it's a both. He could claim an allowance for UK tax paid, but not exemption. He was UK resident at the time he held a Green Card. He was therefore liable to both UK tax and US tax, but as a UK resident his US tax liability was decreased by the 'foreign earned income exclusions' and/or 'foreign income tax credits'. He was obligated to file a US tax return as well as (not instead of) a UK tax return. If he had a liability to pay US tax on something that's not taxable in the UK, he would have to pay it just like Johnson had to pay US CGT on selling his only or main residence in the UK.
	__________________ Why can't you be more like Agatha? - Loss Leader

25th October 2022, 10:54 AM	#1402
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 18,215	The local Tories are revolting. So are the rest.

25th October 2022, 03:36 PM	#1407
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,383	Originally Posted by Lothian The local Tories are revolting. You said it. They stink on ice.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

25th October 2022, 04:02 PM	#1408
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 28,563	Originally Posted by acbytesla You said it. They stink on ice. Yup, it was well played by Lothian.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

25th October 2022, 04:03 PM	#1409
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 57,211	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Ree Smog was still complaining that Sunak had been "disloyal" to BlowJob and then petulantly added something to the effect of "Well, he wouldn't want me anyway!" And everyone who's ever heard him sliming around BBC news studios knows that Lewis is only fit for sending out to do the early morning interview round when someone has to defend whatever scandal has just broken (he did this a lot for BlowJob), even if all he does is sound slimy and shifty and make youi foget for a few moments whatever thing it is you should be outraged by, as in "Hang on there! Did that ****-wit really just say that? Does he expect anyone with a functioning brain to believe it?" It's a bit like Tom Wolfe's flak catchers in "Mau-Mau-ing the Flak Catchers". Lppks as if Sunak took him at his word.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

25th October 2022, 04:08 PM	#1410
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 44,917	Originally Posted by Lothian The local Tories are revolting. So are the rest. Brexit was supposed to prevent this kind of thing.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

25th October 2022, 04:35 PM	#1411
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 13,640	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Brexit was supposed to prevent this kind of thing. Do you mean swarthy subcontinental gentlemen becoming politicians and ultimately prime minister? Yes, it was. Some frog-faced fascist ****** called Farage went on about that sort of thing, as I recall.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

25th October 2022, 09:17 PM	#1412
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 15,097	Originally Posted by angrysoba Whatever could have made lifelong Tories who seemed to support any old useless tosser suddenly unable to support Rishi Sunak? I wonder if he'd be more palatable if he agreed to use the service entrance to 10 Downing Street.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

25th October 2022, 10:26 PM	#1413
Susheel Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 3,040	As the late great Terry Pratchett once proclaimed, "Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk." The right-wing glory appropriators in India are ecstatic over this...particularly since his public molestation of a cow to show how Hindu he is. Just saying that Rishi being brown in no way means that he cannot be a bigot. Just look at Preeti Patel.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

25th October 2022, 10:54 PM	#1414
Filippo Lippi Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 4,183	Sunak doesn't agree with Priti Patel, Braverman, and, by extension, Farage and the BNP, he just finds it useful to to march alongside them, to never call them out, to enable policies that will help them vote for him. Beneath contempt
	__________________ You can't defeat fascism through debate because it's not simply an idea, proposal or theory. It's a fundamentally flawed way of looking at the world. It's a distorting prism, emotionally charged and completely logic-proof. You may as well challenge rabies to a game of Boggle. @ViolettaCrisis

25th October 2022, 11:20 PM	#1415
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 35,975	Originally Posted by angrysoba Whatever could have made lifelong Tories who seemed to support any old useless tosser suddenly unable to support Rishi Sunak? What on earth would ever prompt an NHS employee in Bishop Auckland to be a lifelong Tory?

25th October 2022, 11:46 PM	#1416
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Lothian No. He is UK Resident so will pay taxes here. He should get exemption from paying in the US. A green card does not trump everything else. If he is registered as a US citizen then by default he is subject to US tax.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

25th October 2022, 11:48 PM	#1417
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Ian Osborne I think Larry is psychic. When Truss bent down to stroke him, he haughtily snubbed her.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

25th October 2022, 11:51 PM	#1418
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by jimbob Similarly with his spouse's non dom status, where the Chancellor's household benefitted from his spouse claiming that her main country of residence was not the UK, which he was supposed to serve, and where it is avoiding taxes in a way that looks like a technicality. And who knows? I wonder whether any of Johnson, Sunak or Javid ever opted for non-dom status when they had their green card? After all, this is what high-earning pop stars do to avoid UK taxes.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

25th October 2022, 11:55 PM	#1419
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King Especially as there was next to no government going on for most of that, what with a dead queen and party conferences...So I reckon they were at work for about 4 days, which hardly qualifies you for a pay cheque anywhere else than on the Westminster Gravy Train. Hush your mouth. They were in two-weeks mourning.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

25th October 2022, 11:57 PM	#1420
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Puppycow I take it that Jeremy Hunt is expected to remain in place as Chancellor? Everyone else can be replaced. A good Prime Minister needs someone to sack when things go wrong.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

26th October 2022, 12:00 AM	#1421
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Darat I like the top right photo - showing the bloke praying! Takes a smarmy git to recognise another.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

26th October 2022, 12:06 AM	#1422
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Michel H The ministerial code hasn't changed (as far as I know), but the Prime Minister has: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suella...Home_secretary) This lady seems to have some Indian origins, like your new Prime Minister. I don't mean this as a criticism, though. It is perhaps time to bring some Asian seriousness (?) to an overly nationalist (?) UK. Like Sunak, Braverman is ethnically Indian and both have parents/grandparents that come from both East Africa and the Indian subcontinent. Technically speaking, Sunak's father was born in present day Pakistan, but before the 1948 partition. He is Hindu, she is a ~~tofu-eating~~ Buddhist. The interesting thing is, Braverman fell out with Truss because Truss, as part of a trade deal with India, wanted to bring in Indian labour to fill gaps in the UK economy. Braverman was absolutely furious at the idea of 'all these bloody immigrants coming in', hence the 90-minute screaming row they had.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

26th October 2022, 12:11 AM	#1423
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 54,664	Originally Posted by Vixen If he is registered as a US citizen then by default he is subject to US tax. Sunak had a green card, he was not a US citizen.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

26th October 2022, 12:12 AM	#1424
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Bob001 Exemption is the wrong word. As a U.S. resident he would be liable for U.S. taxes on his world-wide income. But as a UK citizen and resident he would pay taxes in the UK, and would claim the amount he paid there as a deduction or credit on his U.S. taxes. He doesn't get "exempted" in either place. And I don't know whether the UK taxes all income from all global sources, as the U.S. does, or whether it just taxes income from UK sources, in which case he might well owe U.S. taxes on income earned outside the UK. Chances are that as a near-billionaire he has income from multiple sources, and will hire the best lawyers to minimize his taxes everywhere. Rule of thumb is that if you work on UK soil or your company is on British soil, you pay UK taxes. As a US citizen you are liable to pay tax on any earnings you make anywhere in the world. That is the default position of the US IRS. The onus is on you to declare the exemption under OECD tax treaty rules. It would be most unusual for the US IRS not to respect the local tax laws of another country within the treaty.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

26th October 2022, 12:15 AM	#1425
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by GlennB When we lived in Greece we paid Greek taxes on our total income, wherever it was earned. But if tax was deducted at source in the UK on some element of that, we weren't necessarily in the clear. Let's say a small pension was taxed in the UK, amounting to £100 total tax in a year. If the Greek tax on the income would have been £150 (Euro equivalent) then we were still obliged to pay the difference, i.e. £50. There was no absolute exemption, just an allowance for tax already paid. Greece is in the EU. If they are demanding a tax difference, that will be because of their own local laws. Seems unusual to me that they demand tax on something that has been taxed at source in the UK.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

26th October 2022, 12:20 AM	#1426
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 106,884	Originally Posted by Vixen And who knows? I wonder whether any of Johnson, Sunak or Javid ever opted for non-dom status when they had their green card? After all, this is what high-earning pop stars do to avoid UK taxes. Johnson never had a green card.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

26th October 2022, 12:20 AM	#1427
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 54,664	Originally Posted by Vixen And who knows? I wonder whether any of Johnson, Sunak or Javid ever opted for non-dom status when they had their green card? After all, this is what high-earning pop stars do to avoid UK taxes. You’re getting a bit confused. Sunak is the only one to have had a green card, as far as I’m aware. Javid was registered as a non-dom for a time due to his father being from Pakistan. Johnson was a US citizen due to birth.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

26th October 2022, 12:39 AM	#1428
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31,485	Originally Posted by Agatha No, that's not how that it works. It's not an either/or, it's a both. He could claim an allowance for UK tax paid, but not exemption. He was UK resident at the time he held a Green Card. He was therefore liable to both UK tax and US tax, but as a UK resident his US tax liability was decreased by the 'foreign earned income exclusions' and/or 'foreign income tax credits'. He was obligated to file a US tax return as well as (not instead of) a UK tax return. If he had a liability to pay US tax on something that's not taxable in the UK, he would have to pay it just like Johnson had to pay US CGT on selling his only or main residence in the UK. Under the OECD tax convention, ISTM he still would not have had to pay the Capital Gains Tax twice. As you know, with CGT your spouse's personal allowance can come into it. I dare say Johnson paid the CGT to the USA because he classed himself as non-dom. Just guessing. As I can't think why else he would not have paid the UK CGT.
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

26th October 2022, 12:45 AM	#1429
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: in the kitchen Posts: 1,426	Originally Posted by Vixen If he is registered as a US citizen then by default he is subject to US tax. He was never "registered as a US citizen". As a green card holder he was a 'Lawful Permanent Resident', and as such subject to US tax on worldwide income (but not allowed to vote in federal elections, 'cos taxation without representation is fine). ETA: ninja'd so many times....
	__________________ Not a Cockney, but possibly Australian...I am Dick Van Dyke. Last edited by junkshop; 26th October 2022 at 12:47 AM.

26th October 2022, 12:53 AM	#1430
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,639	Originally Posted by Vixen I think Larry is psychic. When Truss bent down to stroke him, he haughtily snubbed her. Cats know.
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,639

26th October 2022, 12:53 AM	#1431
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 18,215	My Originally Posted by Vixen Under the OECD tax convention, ISTM he still would not have had to pay the Capital Gains Tax twice. As you know, with CGT your spouse's personal allowance can come into it. I dare say Johnson paid the CGT to the USA because he classed himself as non-dom. Just guessing. As I can't think why else he would not have paid the UK CGT. Rather than wild irrelevant speculation on whether Rishi or Boris paid tax in America I dare say there are more important issues to discuss

26th October 2022, 01:02 AM	#1432
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,639	I wonder what Larry thinks of the reinstated Home Secretary? People focused on her obvious inhumanity and her dream of seeing immigrants being flown to Rwanda but the equally telling part here is that it’s all about headlines in the right wing press. https://youtu.be/cZqYxJuA-8o
Dragon Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,639

26th October 2022, 01:07 AM	#1433
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 35,975	Our chocolate fireguard of a local MP finally has his wishes come true. After two candidates turned it down, David TC Davies is finally Welsh secretary. I look forward to a new low in relationships between Westminster and the Welsh Assembly. David TC Davies thinks the Welsh Assembly is completely useless and unnecessary, I expect that Mark Drakeford reciprocates those feelings.

26th October 2022, 01:24 AM	#1434
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 18,215	Rishi is right that were are facing huge economic challenges, mainly from brexit (4% hit to GDP). I think radical measures are needed to stimulate growth. These could include joining a single market with those most likely to buy from us. Incentives for companies to invest. Contracting with Universities to research. Nationalising certain industries where we currently boost the profits of foreign governments. Infrastructure improvements. House building. Incentives to foreign workers. Etc Instead of setting out on a radical project to stimulate the economy his focus appears to be to unite the Tory party. I guess, rather than hard choices, he will be looking for popular gestures to raise Tory polling at the expense of growth. He has united around the top table the people who have doubled our debt as a percentage of GDP since the labour 'theres no money left' note, with the 'cut taxes for the rich' trickle down 'austerity them till they bleed...'ers. He has also promised to go back to Johnson's manifesto that has not delivered. From successfully identifying the problem he doesn't seem to be trying to address it.
	Last edited by Lothian; 26th October 2022 at 01:27 AM.

26th October 2022, 01:40 AM	#1435
Carrot Flower King Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 3,377	Originally Posted by Lothian The local Tories are revolting. So are the rest. Yeah, I read that piece. I've long been baffled how any nurse could be a Tory voter, let alone party member. And some of the comments BTL show what sort of problems we have as a country...