Continuation The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 6

[Mike!]

Originally Posted by theprestige

It has recently been announced that the US has sent auditors to Ukraine to verify the disposition of all the military aid being sent to that county. This is a reasonable and necessary part of responsible oversight. It goes hand in hand with Ukraine adopting NATO's supply chain management system. These auditors are not troops. They are not "military advisors" like the Green Berets in Vietnam. They're not Navy SEALs or Army Rangers or Delta Force. They're bureaucrats.

I'm sure the US and other NATO members are doing more secret squirrel stuff in Ukraine than they're admitting to, but the notion that Russia is actually going toe to toe with NATO's finest in the field is pure woo.

Also your friend is kind of a jerk for reporting Facebook posts secondhand. Did they even send you a link?

ETA: Also the 101st Airborne just got deployed to Poland, I believe. This is supposedly a normal rotation of troops, but may incorporate a subtle increase in readiness for action by NATO. And of course Poland is not quite Ukraine.

He did send a link to what he saw not long after I made the post here, and it was pretty much just a guy saying he'd seen it elsewhere, and when pressed for more information, it seemed to be taking the information you and others have since posted, and, how should I phrase this... Took the information given to extremes beyond what was initially reported. I suspected as much, which is why I came here to see what, if anything, had really been reported. Thank you all for your replies!

[Jack by the hedge]

As crescent mentioned, CE told us that military advisers from various NATO countries were leading and directing the defence of Mariupol. The number of them captured and paraded on Russian TV after the fall of Mariupol was of course nil.

The best the Russians could do was identify a few who had moved to Ukraine in recent years and signed up as ordinary soldiers in their forces. (Sucked to be them as the Russians' puppets put them on trial as mercenaries and sentenced them to death but thankfully they were saved by a prisoner exchange arranged through the Saudis.)

[Drewbot]

US Troops on the ground, really they are being called 'inspectors' making sure money and weapons are being used properly.

I don't think there are any actual military units in the Ukraine as a fighting force.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/us-mil...ovided-ukraine

[kookbreaker]

“They sent….bureaucrats!”

“The fiends!”

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

The best the Russians could do was identify a few who had moved to Ukraine in recent years and signed up as ordinary soldiers in their forces. (Sucked to be them as the Russians' puppets put them on trial as mercenaries and sentenced them to death but thankfully they were saved by a prisoner exchange arranged through the Saudis.)

There was never any chance they were going to be executed. That would have caused (yet another) PR disaster for the Russians, and they knew it. The whole thing was just an exercise in chest-thumping by some Russian quislings, though it undoubtedly caused the men and their families considerable anxiety.

[jimbob]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/a...p&fr=operanews

Quote:

What happened that day in Bucha was what Russian soldiers on intercepted phone conversations called “zachistka” — cleansing. The Russians hunted people on lists prepared by their intelligence services and went door to door to identify potential threats. Those who didn’t pass this filtration, including volunteer fighters and civilians suspected of assisting Ukrainian troops, were tortured and executed, surveillance video, audio intercepts and interviews show.

The Associated Press and the PBS series "Frontline" obtained surveillance camera footage from Bucha that shows, for the first time, what a cleansing operation looks like. This was organized brutality that would be repeated at scale in Russian-occupied territories across Ukraine — a strategy to neutralize resistance and terrorize locals into submission that Russian troops have used in past conflicts, notably Chechnya.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

There was never any chance they were going to be executed. That would have caused (yet another) PR disaster for the Russians, and they knew it. The whole thing was just an exercise in chest-thumping by some Russian quislings, though it undoubtedly caused the men and their families considerable anxiety.

After the clownshow that was withdrawing from the grain agreement, then demanding assurances of safety for their fleet if they returned to the grain agreement, then returning to the grain agreement without those assurances, I'm pretty sure Russia doesn't care at all about PR disasters. Whatever their reasons for not executing POWs, I'm certain it's not that.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

There was never any chance they were going to be executed. That would have caused (yet another) PR disaster for the Russians, and they knew it. The whole thing was just an exercise in chest-thumping by some Russian quislings, though it undoubtedly caused the men and their families considerable anxiety.

It seemed very unlikely that the Russians would allow it, but that meant their lives depended on Russians maintaining control and not screwing up. After all, the Russians failed to control their poodles when they got overexcited and shot down MH17.

[crescent]

There are claims - many of them, that Russian forces have withdrawn from multiple checkpoints outside Kherson city. Some video evidence to back that up.

Also claims (with video) of Russian flags having been removed from government building in Kherson city.

And claims that Russian soldiers are nowhere to be found in the city, but those are contradicted by other claims that Russian soldiers are present but are largely hiding.

Tons and tons of speculation about what is going on. A trap? Lure Ukr forces in and use the city as one big ambush? Pull out the well supplied and trained forces and leave the mobniks in to cover that retreat? A full retreat?

Ukraine was most recently estimating that it would take until the end of the year to clear the west bank of the Dnipro. I guess the next few days may be telling.

[Jack by the hedge]

I think Admiral Ackbar takes a firm view on the Russians abandoning positions leading into Kherson.

[dasmiller]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

I think Admiral Ackbar takes a firm view on the Russians abandoning positions leading into Kherson.

The fact that the Russians are being so public about withdrawing from Kherson has to make one suspicious.

[eerok]

Originally Posted by crescent

And claims that Russian soldiers are nowhere to be found in the city, but those are contradicted by other claims that Russian soldiers are present but are largely hiding.

A few days ago I read that Russian troops in Kherson were changing out of their uniforms to appear as civilians. The Ukrainians are reportedly well aware of this. It's either a trap or the Russians are using the false idea of a trap to get out of Kherson clean. I think it's simply a trap, since the Russians seem to be not so good at this war stuff.

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by theprestige

After the clownshow that was withdrawing from the grain agreement, then demanding assurances of safety for their fleet if they returned to the grain agreement, then returning to the grain agreement without those assurances, I'm pretty sure Russia doesn't care at all about PR disasters. Whatever their reasons for not executing POWs, I'm certain it's not that.

I disagree. First, there's a difference between episodes that make the Russians look stupid and incompetent, and episodes that make them look just plain evil. Second, if the Russians truly didn't care about public opinion, they wouldn't even have rejoined the grain deal.

[jimbob]

The Kerch Bridge has managed to carry 16 "light" trains since the attack.

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/sta...412847616?s=20

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

I disagree. First, there's a difference between episodes that make the Russians look stupid and incompetent, and episodes that make them look just plain evil. Second, if the Russians truly didn't care about public opinion, they wouldn't even have rejoined the grain deal.

If they didn't want to look just plain evil, they wouldn't be terror-bombing civilian targets in Ukraine every day.

I'm pretty sure the only reason they rejoined the grain deal is because it's easier to piss all over the inside of the tent from the inside than from the outside. As they discovered the moment they left the grain deal.

[SpitfireIX]

But the Russians had very little to gain by acquiescing in their quislings' murdering POWs, and they had to have known that. Conversely, they think they have a lot to gain by terror bombing.

[lobosrul5]

https://twitter.com/Illya_Ayzin/stat...29614111006720

Hmm a village was re-taken by the AFU about 30 miles form Kherson. First progress I've seen in quite some time.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

https://twitter.com/Illya_Ayzin/stat...29614111006720

Hmm a village was re-taken by the AFU about 30 miles form Kherson. First progress I've seen in quite some time.

And it does not actually appear to be anything new.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...C8keP4u4osAAAA

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

I'll take that bet. The repercussions if Russia caught any of them would be disastrous.

YThey are peobably well behind the lines training Ukraninas in the use of the new weapons and new tactics. That is pretty much what the Green Berets do.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by dudalb

YThey are peobably well behind the lines training Ukraninas in the use of the new weapons and new tactics. That is pretty much what the Green Berets do.

Ukrainians are being trained in new weapons and tactics all over Europe. This is openly acknowledged and even celebrated.

I'm sure there are NATO advisors in Ukraine right now. But I'm also pretty sure that they are actual advisors, and not "advisors" secretly fighting on Ukraine's behalf. I'm pretty sure it's a myth that actual NATO troops are on the ground in Ukraine, taking part in the fighting.

[Klimax]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Ukrainians are being trained in new weapons and tactics all over Europe. This is openly acknowledged and even celebrated.

I'm sure there are NATO advisors in Ukraine right now. But I'm also pretty sure that they are actual advisors, and not "advisors" secretly fighting on Ukraine's behalf. I'm pretty sure it's a myth that actual NATO troops are on the ground in Ukraine, taking part in the fighting.

Most logical place for those secret soldiers would be Foreign legion...

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Klimax

Most logical place for those secret soldiers would be Foreign legion...

... or any of the other foreign volunteer units. Which aren't secret. Whose combat footage and war report videos get published regularly by Ukraine. There's a whole unit of Russian volunteers, and another whole unit of Belarusian volunteers.

I honestly don't get this obsession with the idea that NATO simply must have secret boots on the ground in Ukraine. Can't we just let the Ukrainian troops and foreign volunteers have the credit for the hard work they're doing?

There's a video clip of an American volunteer machine gunner, riding in a Humvee as it races across a field towards a Russian-occupied village. He's blazing away, and as the Humvee approaches the village he runs out of ammo. They're taking fire from the village now, and he's calling down into the truck for more ammo. Someone inside hands him up... a rocket launcher. So he puts the thing on his shoulder, flips up the sights, and launches the rocket at the enemy. Then he asks for more ammo again. And again they hand him a rocket launcher instead. And again he just takes it and gets to work.

Real people, doing real fighting in Ukraine. Give them the credit, not the 3000 secret squirrels of NATO or whatever.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by Klimax

Most logical place for those secret soldiers would be Foreign legion...

We, of course, know that there are members in the Foreign Legion that used to be soldiers of NATO countries. It would be pretty easy to just insert some current special force soldiers and disavow that they are currently NATO soldiers. Not saying its been done, but it wouldn't be that hard to get away with IMO.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

We, of course, know that there are members in the Foreign Legion that used to be soldiers of NATO countries. It would be pretty easy to just insert some current special force soldiers and disavow that they are currently NATO soldiers. Not saying its been done, but it wouldn't be that hard to get away with IMO.

On the other hand, what would be the point?

[sackett]

The Russians no doubt pray to Sts. Cyril and Methodious for some foreign advisors to help them out. Where would they get them? N. Korea?

Or possibly Iran? They could do worse.

[lobosrul5]

Originally Posted by theprestige

On the other hand, what would be the point?

To have eyes on the ground. It would be useful intelligence to know first hand, from our own guys, how the war is actually going. How effectively are they using our equipment etc? Rather than relying on another country to tell us... trust, but verify. Also having guys who are experts on NATO weapons platforms right there, on hand to give advice to the AFU. I actually doubt we do have any "operators" in Ukraine... but it would hardly surprise me if we do.

[The Great Zaganza]

I am puzzled about the level of support Iran is providing to Russia. One would assume that the Iranian government would want to keep their stuff for fear of a US invasion. Or refrain from going so blatantly against Western interests as to make it impossible for th West to reduce sanctions.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I am puzzled about the level of support Iran is providing to Russia. One would assume that the Iranian government would want to keep their stuff for fear of a US invasion. Or refrain from going so blatantly against Western interests as to make it impossible for th West to reduce sanctions.

After Trump and with the current GOP it's clear that the US is never ever going to lift sanctions in any meaningful way as long as the current regime is in power.
So it's not like they really lose something, whereas they might gain something from Putin. Possibly even influence over the neighboring parts of Russia if Putin's regime collapses.

[The Don]

Volodymyr Zelensky has accused Russia of energy terrorism:

Quote:

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has accused the Kremlin of resorting to "energy terrorism" as Russian troops make few gains on the battlefield.

Mr Zelensky said 4.5 million people were without power following Russian attacks on its energy network.

In recent weeks, Russia has carried out large-scale missile and drone attacks on Ukrainian power facilities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63508836

I wonder if this a Br'er Rabbit kind of thing - convince Russia that they should continue to attack power infrastructure to undermine Ukraine's morale but in the process limit Russian attacks on the Ukrainian military.

[Arcade22]

Dimitry Medvedev on why [Putin's] Cause is right:

Quote:

Against us today is part of a dying world. This is a bunch of crazy Nazi drug addicts, people drugged and intimidated by them, and a large pack of barking dogs from the western kennel. With them is a motley pack of grunting gilts and narrow-minded inhabitants from the collapsed Western empire with saliva flowing down their chins from degeneration. They have no faith and ideals, except for obscene habits invented by them and standards of doublethink implanted by them, denying the morality bestowed on normal people. Therefore, having risen against them, we have acquired sacred power.

...

Why were we silent for a long time? We were weak and devastated by timelessness. And now we have shaken off the sticky dream and the dreary haze of the last decades, into which the death of the former Fatherland plunged us. Other countries awaited our awakening, raped by the masters of darkness, slave owners and oppressors who dream of their monstrous colonial past and yearn to maintain their power over the world. Many countries do not believe their nonsense for a long time, but are still afraid of them. Soon they will wake up completely. And when the rotten world order collapses, it will bury all its arrogant priests, bloodthirsty adepts, mocking servants and dumb mankurts under a multi-ton pile of its debris.

What is our weapon? Weapons are different. We have the opportunity to send all enemies to the fiery Gehenna, but this is not our task. We listen to the words of the Creator in our hearts and obey them. These words give us a sacred purpose. The goal is to stop the supreme ruler of hell, no matter what name he uses – Satan, Lucifer or Iblis. For his goal is death. Our goal is life.

...

Happy Holidays!

https://windowstorussia.com/medvedev...-is-right.html

Something straight from the final bunker, the last dug out.

Edit: The "holiday" he's referring to is National Unity Day, a very important holiday to Russians I guess? No doubt whole throngs of Russians are enjoying the festivities after that heart-warming statement.

[Drewbot]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I am puzzled about the level of support Iran is providing to Russia. One would assume that the Iranian government would want to keep their stuff for fear of a US invasion. Or refrain from going so blatantly against Western interests as to make it impossible for th West to reduce sanctions.

US, England and France are saying that it goes against UN Resolution 2231 prohibiting Iran from exporting missles

Quote:

However, Western diplomats said the resolution still includes restrictions on missiles and related technologies that last until October 2023 and that encompass the export and purchase of advanced military systems such as drones.

"It is our belief that these UAVs that are transferred from Iran to Russia and used by Russia in Ukraine are among the weapons that would remain embargoed under 2231," Patel said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-say...on-2022-10-17/

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by The Don

Volodymyr Zelensky has accused Russia of energy terrorism:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63508836

I wonder if this a Br'er Rabbit kind of thing - convince Russia that they should continue to attack power infrastructure to undermine Ukraine's morale but in the process limit Russian attacks on the Ukrainian military.

I'm pretty sure he's just calling out a war crime that needs to be called out.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Dimitry Medvedev on why [Putin's] Cause is right:



https://windowstorussia.com/medvedev...-is-right.html

Something straight from the final bunker, the last dug out.

Edit: The "holiday" he's referring to is National Unity Day, a very important holiday to Russians I guess? No doubt whole throngs of Russians are enjoying the festivities after that heart-warming statement.

Meanwhile, Zelensky has just recognized National Artillery Troops Day in Ukraine.

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I am puzzled about the level of support Iran is providing to Russia. One would assume that the Iranian government would want to keep their stuff for fear of a US invasion. Or refrain from going so blatantly against Western interests as to make it impossible for th West to reduce sanctions.

There's nothing to indicate a US invasion is happening any time soon and invading Iran over this would be pretty dumb considering it's dragging more countries into a war that could probably be solved by the US just going into Ukraine instead.

I think that Iran is doing this because they want combat data on the effectiveness of their drones, and by supplying Russia that means they're more likely to come into contact with the Western AA systems that they would be up against in a war against the US.

[theprestige]

Russia's probably also helping them with their nuke program. Which if it progresses much further, which hopefully it won't, could lead to a US invasion, and hopefully would.

And by now probably even Iran can see that the combat data they're getting amounts to "don't even bother lol".

[The Great Zaganza]

I know that the US won't invade Iran, but it's their narrative that it will any moment.
So it's an admission that that was a lie, just like Putin withdrawing troops from NATO borders to fight in Ukraine proves that he is not actually worried about a NATO invasion.

I think some bigwigs in Iran just want to make a quick buck before their regime collapses around them.

[sackett]

How much markup do the Persians add to those flying mopeds when they ship to Russia?

Yes, I believe I am a cynical SOB. How did you guess?

[Arcade22]

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Dimitry Medvedev on why [Putin's] Cause is right:



https://windowstorussia.com/medvedev...-is-right.html

Something straight from the final bunker, the last dug out.

Edit: The "holiday" he's referring to is National Unity Day, a very important holiday to Russians I guess? No doubt whole throngs of Russians are enjoying the festivities after that heart-warming statement.

It should be noticed that Russian officials have increasingly been giving the war a religious justification. Not merely content to "denazify" Ukraine of imaginary boogiemen, they have increasingly justified themselves implicitly or explicitly by supporting the "desatanisation" of Ukraine since clearly the country is filled with "sects" and evil people. According to one official Ukraine had hundreds of these "sects".

The irony of decedent corrupt Russia, one of the Unholiest of Unholies, trying to justify itself through religious conviction is thoroughly satisfying.

[Arcade22]

Also, and I've said this before, but one of the main reasons why Russia continues to claim that the "real" enemy behind various defeats is actually NATO, the UK or USA is because of official rhetoric like that which came from Dimitry Medvedev there.

Because the official narrative in Russian media, which is followed especially closely in national TV broadcasts, continues to describe and depict Ukrainian's in terms such as "drug addicted Nazis" they cannot reconcile this with their defeats. Instead various officials allege everything from secret NATO soldiers fighting in Ukrainian uniforms to less ridiculous stories about Ukrainian's merely acting "on behalf" of NATO/UK/USA. Some people even implicitly claim that the real reason they are losing is because of corruption, incompetence and treason. The latter is at least partially true, but the people they seek to blame are not the ones who are most guilty of course. In other words, we might be seeing another "stab in the back" legend being born.

The pompous Russian supremacists who are so full of themselves can't admit that they are being bested by a country that they have belittled and ridiculed long before this war.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Also, and I've said this before, but one of the main reasons why Russia continues to claim that the "real" enemy behind various defeats is actually NATO, the UK or USA is because of official rhetoric like that which came from Dimitry Medvedev there.

Because the official narrative in Russian media, which is followed especially closely in national TV broadcasts, continues to describe and depict Ukrainian's in terms such as "drug addicted Nazis" they cannot reconcile this with their defeats. Instead various officials allege everything from secret NATO soldiers fighting in Ukrainian uniforms to less ridiculous stories about Ukrainian's merely acting "on behalf" of NATO/UK/USA. Some people even implicitly claim that the real reason they are losing is because of corruption, incompetence and treason. The latter is at least partially true, but the people they seek to blame are not the ones who are most guilty of course. In other words, we might be seeing another "stab in the back" legend being born.

The pompous Russian supremacists who are so full of themselves can't admit that they are being bested by a country that they have belittled and ridiculed long before this war.

Interesting that they are so willing to try to save face by admitting that they can be so easily defeated by NATO. This hardly backs up their preferred portrayal of Russian superiority. As I said upthread, a big takeaway from this war is that NATO now knows it has little to fear from any potential ground war with Russia. Nukes are, of course, always a wild card but as long as NATO stays out of Russia proper then Russia will just stay behind their own borders and stew in their own ineptitudes.