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Old 8th January 2019, 08:54 AM   #961
theprestige
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The US president doesn't have the kind of power Itchy Boy imagines. In fact, his constraints are explicitly stated, where those of the Commonwealth monarchs are merely implied.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:42 AM   #962
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US president doesn't have the kind of power Itchy Boy imagines. In fact, his constraints are explicitly stated, where those of the Commonwealth monarchs are merely implied.
Without any method of enforcement, as recent events have shown.
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Old 10th January 2019, 05:54 AM   #963
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US president doesn't have the kind of power Itchy Boy imagines. In fact, his constraints are explicitly stated, where those of the Commonwealth monarchs are merely implied.
It is amusing then that the Commonwealth monarchs are actually restrained by the implicit limitations, while the current incumbent of the US presidency is acting as if he does have nearly unlimited powers with no realistic check on them.
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Old 10th January 2019, 06:48 PM   #964
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
S'alright. No one drinks Blue.
I can't imagine why.
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:44 AM   #965
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
It is amusing then that the Commonwealth monarchs are actually restrained by the implicit limitations, while the current incumbent of the US presidency is acting as if he does have nearly unlimited powers with no realistic check on them.
It helps that the politicians of the Commonwealth are willing to enforce the 'unwritten rules'.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:23 AM   #966
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
It helps that the politicians of the Commonwealth are willing to enforce the 'unwritten rules'.
When the first US President gets impeached, removed from office, tried, convicted and executed (or sent into exile) for violating their written rules, IB can then try to go on about the US system having check and balances.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:46 AM   #967
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
It helps that the politicians of the Commonwealth are willing to enforce the 'unwritten rules'.

It is an illustrative example of what we've been trying to tell him, though. It doesn't matter what is written down, what really matters is what the people involved in implementing the system choose to do. Ultimately, refusing to use your power is functionally indistinguishable from not having it, and vice versa.
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:02 PM   #968
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
When the first US President gets impeached, removed from office, tried, convicted and executed (or sent into exile) for violating their written rules, IB can then try to go on about the US system having check and balances.

You mean like the kind of checks and balances that force their government to shutdown every time someone's dolly falls out of their pram? Those kinds of "checks and balances"?

Yeah.... I'll take tea-toddling royal assent any day over kindergarten foot-stomping, thank you very much.

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Old 12th January 2019, 04:25 PM   #969
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US president doesn't have the kind of power Itchy Boy imagines. In fact, his constraints are explicitly stated, where those of the Commonwealth monarchs are merely implied.
I don't think the President has any real power to act on his own. Politics is nothing but theatre for the masses. Pro wrestling is more real.
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Old 12th January 2019, 05:45 PM   #970
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I don't think the President has any real power to act on his own. Politics is nothing but theatre for the masses. Pro wrestling is more real.

So in that case, who shut down the American Government?


Hint: he refused to sign an Appropriation Bill agreed to by the House and the Senate.

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Old 12th January 2019, 06:45 PM   #971
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I don't think the President has any real power to act on his own. Politics is nothing but theatre for the masses. Pro wrestling is more real.
Correct. The Queen is still in charge in the US, obviously. That 1776 thing was simply fake news to placate the masses while still holding the colonial reins of power. FAKE NEWS, right?

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Old 13th January 2019, 06:26 PM   #972
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I don't think the President has any real power to act on his own. Politics is nothing but theatre for the masses. Pro wrestling is more real.
Solution is in your statement.
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Old 13th January 2019, 08:35 PM   #973
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I don't think the President has any real power to act on his own. Politics is nothing but theatre for the masses. Pro wrestling is more real.
I see that you are no more familiar with the US constitution than the Canadian constitution.

The fact is that the POTUS has real powers and is able to abuse them to bring the country to its knees. There is no Monarch who can step in and say "ENOUGH!"
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Old 14th January 2019, 01:11 PM   #974
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A businessman and 'reality' show actor becomes POTUS because the electoral college made it so, not the public voters. That alone should tell you politics is theatre.

You have actors like Trump, Reagan, Schwarzenegger in high political positions and you have politicians being actors, such as Justin appearing on 'Corner Gas'.

They're telling you that there's no difference between politicians and actors.

ETA: Now there's talk of another 'actor' considering running for Pres - billionaire Oprah Winfrey. It's amazing that any thinking person can take politics seriously.
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Old 14th January 2019, 02:12 PM   #975
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What has this got to do with your original claim that the President has no real power?



Quote:
I don't think the President has any real power to act on his own.

Norm
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Old 14th January 2019, 02:17 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
A businessman and 'reality' show actor becomes POTUS because the electoral college made it so, not the public voters. That alone should tell you politics is theatre.

You have actors like Trump, Reagan, Schwarzenegger in high political positions and you have politicians being actors, such as Justin appearing on 'Corner Gas'.

They're telling you that there's no difference between politicians and actors.

ETA: Now there's talk of another 'actor' considering running for Pres - billionaire Oprah Winfrey. It's amazing that any thinking person can take politics seriously.
In your world, actors would be forbidden to be politicians. Yeah...that makes sense.

And your amazing revelation that politics is theatre. Well, stagger me! Who on Earth would believe that, given the Marmalade Moron in the White House desperately pretending to be president.
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Old 14th January 2019, 06:55 PM   #977
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
What has this got to do with your original claim that the President has no real power?
Norm
Absolutely everything. Politics in what we call 'democracy' is a charade.

Everybody knows politicians lie, don't keep their promises, and are beholden to their financial supporters, not the electorate. Nothing significant changes with any new President or PM.

Some people think Trump is working against the Deep State. I think he's working for the Deep State.

Trump may be the start of a global campaign to make elected governments look unworkable, to be replaced by a technocratic system of gov't where unelected 'experts' in various fields make all the decisions.

“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities.” 
-- Zbigniew Brzezinski
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Old 14th January 2019, 07:04 PM   #978
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So you are back in Conspiracy Theory Land where Trump is not in charge but is controlled by "THE MAN" who in his super sekret guise of the Illuminati, or the Bilderbergs, or the Papacy, or the Jews, or the Queen of England, or the Ruler of the Universe who has a cat named The Lord, or whichever particularly obtuse or non existent organisation you believe in is the true power.

Except as with the Queen you have absolutely no evidence to support this lunacy, and you are just making stuff up, because you are in "Everythingisaconspiracy" country. Put your tinfoil hat back on and go hide in the closet. It will cheer you up.

Thought so.

Norm
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Old 14th January 2019, 07:28 PM   #979
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Some people think Trump is working against the Deep State. I think he's working for the Deep State.
Please provide some evidence that the Deep State exists. Or lacking that, even a coherent definition.

Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Trump may be the start of a global campaign to make elected governments look unworkable, to be replaced by a technocratic system of gov't where unelected 'experts' in various fields make all the decisions.
Yeah, someone's got to take a stand against the experts, right? What do they know anyway?
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:14 PM   #980
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"It is not a matter of what is true that counts, but a matter of what is perceived to be true." - Henry Kissinger

"Another threat, less overt but no less basic, confronts liberal democracy. More directly linked to the impact of technology, it involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled and directed society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific knowhow. Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping society under close surveillance and control."
-- Zbigniew Brzezinski (Between Two Ages, 1970, pp.252-253).

When that was written, there were no cell phones tracking your whereabouts. There was no internet tracking your thoughts, beliefs, wishes. There was far less use of credit and debit cards that track your purchases and spending. There weren't security cameras everywhere. Soon we'll have the Internet of Things which will eventually track every detail of your life - down to when you last took that jar of mustard out of the fridge.

But don't worry, I'm sure it's all just for marketing purposes. China's 'social credit' system will never arrive in Europe or America - or will it?

People see the dots, but fail to connect them.
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:32 PM   #981
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Please provide some evidence that the Deep State exists. Or lacking that, even a coherent definition.

Yeah, someone's got to take a stand against the experts, right? What do they know anyway?
For info on Deep State, look up Peter Dale Scott who coined the term. I can't give you the simplistic answers you seek.

As for trusting experts, what guarantee is there that some are not wrong, or have hidden agendas? In my view, most 'experts' are bought and paid for and their proclamations reflect their paymasters' wishes.
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:41 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
For info on Deep State, look up Peter Dale Scott who coined the term. I can't give you the simplistic answers you seek.
I'm not asking for simplistic answers. I'm asking for evidence that the Deep State exists, or even a coherent definition of what it is. Surely you can articulate your own understanding of what the term means?

Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
As for trusting experts, what guarantee is there that some are not wrong, or have hidden agendas? In my view, most 'experts' are bought and paid for and their proclamations reflect their paymasters' wishes.
Do you know what the word "expert" even means?
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:42 PM   #983
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm not asking for simplistic answers. I'm asking for evidence that the Deep State exists, or even a coherent definition of what it is. Surely you can articulate your own understanding of what the term means?

Do you know what the word "expert" even means?
Terms like 'Deep State', 'Illuminati', 'New World Order' etc do not have strict definitions. There is no gov't office with any of those terms on the door. It took me quite a while to come to some understanding of those terms because they are liquid and can mean similar but different things in various contexts. So, no, I can't articulate my understanding of those terms without writing far more words than I'm willing to write.

The UN's Agenda 21 is one way to understand what the NWO is. It's a profound reorganization of society. We're in the midst of it right now, and it's not coming about because of any grass roots movement.

ETA: One way to look at it is that the Deep State is responsible for bringing about a NWO, with political leaders acting as the front men.

Here's a collection of 'leaders' using the exact phrase 'New World Order'. So it can't be denied that some concept called the NWO does in fact exist. What it really means is debatable. The leaders using the term portray it as a 'good thing' and necessary as the world moves forward. But those who connect the dots see the NWO as essentially a control grid clamping down on freedom. And there can be no argument that the tracking & control grid is not already partially in place and growing daily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBSJvtkPICM
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:54 PM   #984
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Okay, I'm confused now (not really but anyway). Agenda 21 is a United Nations plan for sustainable development, and yes, it does suggest profoundly changing our practices in order to avoid destroying the planet. I take it you would prefer to see the planet destroyed?
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Old 14th January 2019, 10:52 PM   #985
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So, can this thread now be officially moved to conspiracy theories?
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Old 14th January 2019, 10:55 PM   #986
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Humour. Or Entertainment.
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Old 14th January 2019, 10:57 PM   #987
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Okay, I'm confused now (not really but anyway). Agenda 21 is a United Nations plan for sustainable development, and yes, it does suggest profoundly changing our practices in order to avoid destroying the planet. I take it you would prefer to see the planet destroyed?
How do you know the planet is being destroyed? I know there are bad environmental things happening, but how much is exaggerated? How much is due to corporate decisions like putting gender bending BHA in plastic containers? How much could be improved if sequestered energy technologies were released and developed?

Back in the 1970's, we were told an ice age was coming. We were told the world would be out of petroleum by 2000. There were long lineups at the gas stations that had any gas. Clearly, it was an artificial shortage.
There was the Y2K scare that was going to wreak havoc but did nothing, which I knew it would because I worked with computers. It was an artificial scare. And BTW, these were all claimed by 'experts'.

Gov'ts dream up all kinds of bogeymen to keep the pubic in a state of anxiety which makes them more malleable.
It's always been that way.
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Old 14th January 2019, 11:18 PM   #988
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
How do you know the planet is being destroyed? I know there are bad environmental things happening, but how much is exaggerated? How much is due to corporate decisions like putting gender bending BHA in plastic containers? How much could be improved if sequestered energy technologies were released and developed?

Back in the 1970's, we were told an ice age was coming. We were told the world would be out of petroleum by 2000. There were long lineups at the gas stations that had any gas. Clearly, it was an artificial shortage.
There was the Y2K scare that was going to wreak havoc but did nothing, which I knew it would because I worked with computers. It was an artificial scare. And BTW, these were all claimed by 'experts'.

Gov'ts dream up all kinds of bogeymen to keep the pubic in a state of anxiety which makes them more malleable.
It's always been that way.
Then quick! Go hide in the woods! Canada has plenty of woods, so you should find some spare.
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Old Yesterday, 12:34 AM   #989
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
So you are back in Conspiracy Theory Land where Trump is not in charge but is controlled by "THE MAN" who in his super sekret guise of the Illuminati, or the Bilderbergs, or the Papacy, or the Jews, or the Queen of England, or the Ruler of the Universe who has a cat named The Lord, or whichever particularly obtuse or non existent organisation you believe in is the true power.

Except as with the Queen you have absolutely no evidence to support this lunacy, and you are just making stuff up, because you are in "Everythingisaconspiracy" country. Put your tinfoil hat back on and go hide in the closet. It will cheer you up.

Thought so.

Norm
What do you know about Bilderberg? Have you been to their web site? Have you studied their list of attendees? Do you suppose they gather to chat about the weather, sports, their favourite movies and musical artists? Do you suppose that a gathering of media owners, corporate heads, high level bureaucrats, royalty, etc is not somehow going to produce tangible results out in the real world?

I'm curious as to what you think Bilderberg is all about.
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Old Yesterday, 01:36 AM   #990
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This is your conspiracy theory not mine. It's up to you to support what you say with a lot more than you think they are something or other. The word you are looking for starts with an "E" and you have not got any at all.



Norm
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Old Yesterday, 09:05 AM   #991
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
What do you know about Bilderberg?
Let's start with what you know and the evidence for it.

Quote:
Have you been to their web site?
Have you?

If so, then what evidence to support your beliefs have you gathered?

Quote:
Have you studied their list of attendees?
Have you?

What does it tell you and what evidence supports it?

Quote:
Do you suppose they gather to chat about the weather, sports, their favourite movies and musical artists?
I'm going to lead here with Why wouldn't they talk about those things? Why do you think these people don't make the same sort of small talk that the rest of the planet does?

Quote:
Do you suppose that a gathering of media owners, corporate heads, high level bureaucrats, royalty, etc is not somehow going to produce tangible results out in the real world?
What tangible results have they produced to date? With the evidence used to support your claim.

Quote:
I'm curious as to what you think Bilderberg is all about.
I'm going to posit that unless it matches what you already believe about Bilderberg, that you are not. You've demonstrated a complete lack of interest in other people's POV or learning from persons more knowledgable than yourself in this thread to date, so I feel confident that based on the evidence that you really aren't interested in what other people think.
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Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM   #992
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
This is your conspiracy theory not mine. It's up to you to support what you say with a lot more than you think they are something or other. The word you are looking for starts with an "E" and you have not got any at all.

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You keep mentioning Bilderberg so I'd like to know what you know about them. Apparently, the answer is 'nothing'. You speak as though you don't believe they even exist.

You want me to produce the minutes of their meetings because you can't imagine a gathering of some of the world's most powerful people has any significance.

I can't fix that.
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Old Yesterday, 01:58 PM   #993
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So you know nothing and need other people to do your homework for you. Thought so. Conspiracy Theorist Lite.


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Old Yesterday, 02:26 PM   #994
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
How do you know the planet is being destroyed? I know there are bad environmental things happening, but how much is exaggerated? How much is due to corporate decisions like putting gender bending BHA in plastic containers? How much could be improved if sequestered energy technologies were released and developed?

Back in the 1970's, we were told an ice age was coming. We were told the world would be out of petroleum by 2000. There were long lineups at the gas stations that had any gas. Clearly, it was an artificial shortage.
There was the Y2K scare that was going to wreak havoc but did nothing, which I knew it would because I worked with computers. It was an artificial scare. And BTW, these were all claimed by 'experts'.

Gov'ts dream up all kinds of bogeymen to keep the pubic in a state of anxiety which makes them more malleable.
It's always been that way.
Aha! Climate change denial. Does anyone else have climate change denial on their bingo card?
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Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM   #995
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
You keep mentioning Bilderberg so I'd like to know what you know about them. Apparently, the answer is 'nothing'. You speak as though you don't believe they even exist.

You want me to produce the minutes of their meetings because you can't imagine a gathering of some of the world's most powerful people has any significance.

I can't fix that.
Dude, they post the agendas on their frakking website. As consipiracists go, you suck. Put some effort into it, a little pizzaz, maybe some homicide with a side of sex scandal.

Bunch of folk talking about "What does democracy mean in the Middle East?" Its a college debate class with a better grade of available booze.
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Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Dude, they post the agendas on their frakking website.
But what if they're lying? Do you really believe what they tell the public?
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Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM   #997
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
But what if they're lying? Do you really believe what they tell the public?
I don't think they're lying and yes, I believe what they tell the public.
The question is, what don't they tell the public?

But that question is lost here because apparently this yearly gathering of elite movers and shakers and string pullers has no significance.

They have "informal discussions about megatrends and major issues facing the world". "...they can take time to listen, reflect and gather insights."

And these "120-150 political leaders and experts from industry, finance, academia and the media" then just go home and do nothing with their 'insights'. That stretches credulity to the breaking point for me.

"There is no detailed agenda, no resolutions are proposed, no votes are taken, and no policy statements are issued." I believe that. But none of those are required for some coordinated actions to be taken based on 'insights'.


"Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth. By simply not mentioning certain subjects... totalitarian propagandists have influenced opinion much more effectively than they could have by the most eloquent denunciations." - Aldous Huxley
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Old Yesterday, 07:48 PM   #998
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
I don't think they're lying and yes, I believe what they tell the public.
The question is, what don't they tell the public?
Well, you know, that's called lying by omission. You still think they're lying.
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Old Yesterday, 07:55 PM   #999
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur, a Latin phrase, means "The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived."
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Old Yesterday, 07:58 PM   #1000
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Originally Posted by Itchy Boy View Post
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur, a Latin phrase, means "The world wants to be deceived, so let it be deceived."
Interesting. Do you know the source of the phrase?
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