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Old 5th January 2019, 05:22 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
No, I think that progressives (in the modern sense) didn't exist.
Evidence?
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Old 5th January 2019, 05:43 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
Just to remind you what you identified as "the problem":


Accessibility to the internet had nothing to do with this incident, nor did anyone trash him in the media. He wasn't hounded after the fact about a successful set. He bombed in the moment because he couldn't handle the fact that a joke didn't land (irrespective of the reason it didn't land).
It has nothing to do with the fact that the incident didn't happen "on the internet". My point is that thanks to the internet, we now live in a highly reactive culture that is already pathologically conditioned to react more and more aggressively to words. A society with triggers just waiting to be detonated, so that next time there's a comedian (or person) who says words like "black" or "gay", the alarms go off. And this happens both online and in real life.
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Old 5th January 2019, 05:45 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
SJWs didn't exist when anti-Holocaust-denial laws were passed, just as they didn't exist (and were not the target of) George Carlin's most famous routine.
The term SJW may be new, but PC Culture is basically, the culture of Social Justice Warriors, and if Carlin were alive today, bits such as these would be addressed directly at SJW's:

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I AGREE


Can you imagine the kids from Columbia hearing this bit? If they reacted so negatively to a progressive joke that is basically saying that being gay and black is tough in this society, they wouldn't last more than ten seconds of this Carlin bit before their brains just imploded.
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Old 5th January 2019, 05:51 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Well, there goes your claim that you don't lie.
Nah. In the last thread in which we interacted, you compared the changes in sexual harrassment policy at NBC in light of Matt Lauer's dismissal to children reporting on their parents during the cultural revolution. Why? Because #metoo = SJWs = incipient totalitarians.

Quote:
Then why do you keep bringing it up? I didn't bring up violence, someone else did. If you weren't being tittilated by its discussion one would think you would stop bringing it up.
Sorry, if you imply that these kids could grow up to be Hitler (hey, everyone's gotta start somewhere!) you are in fact bringing up violence. That's kind of why Hitler is so memorable. I dismissed this idea with a joke about death squads, because it's so ******* dumb.

Quote:
No, he wasn't. You are ignoring all the evidence. The organizer stated in the video why she stopped him and it was repeated in the statement. This is the type of thing that leads me to label you a SJW, your willingness to ignore the evidence and follow the dogma.
I'm not ignoring the evidence. I'm just not taking anyone at their word. I don't believe they kicked him off for that joke because they let him go on for half an hour after that joke. Obviously, it was the bombing, and not the joke, that forced their hand. If he'd moved on and recovered, they wouldn't have pulled the plug.

And it wasn't repeated in their statement, which is another reason I think it's ********.

Quote:
So gays were equal 20 years ago? They couldn't marry. they were still being raided by police. They faced long prison terms . . . but they were equal.
This is painful.

The whole point is that they weren't equal 20 years ago. That this made being gay more of a cross to bear. Which means that joke works better, apart from being fresher.

Quote:
But okay, that's a different issue. The issue now is why would you not comdemn someone who is clearly not racist or homophibic being called homophobic? the dogma says you shouldn't but ethics and reason say you should.
They called the joke homophobic, rather than him. Sure, I don't think it was, but that's hardly evidence that anyone is lying. Just means they came up with something clueless when pressed. And no stand up is going to have his career ruined over an innocuous joke that somebody calls homophobic. There are far too many examples of people surviving actually homophobic jokes for that to be a concern.

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Really? Have you seen comedy at all? Even King George Carlin did it.
Pedagogy was part of Carlin's hippie guru persona--he lectured his audiences about lots of things. Part of the reason I don't like his stuff. Still, I can't think of an instance where he lectured an audience for not liking a joke, and I did say "seldom". No one likes being condescended to, so you've got to have pretty good chops to pull that off.

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But that brings us to another point. Do you call an artist racist and homophobic because they painted fruit instead of kitty cats? Do you fire him? How about an actor? Do you call him racist and homophobic if he flubs a line in a live performance?
I would hesitate to call a litany of irrelevant questions a point.

Quote:
All indicators say the audience was merely split after the joke in question. half were still enjoying themselves, half not. And yet, a couple people took it upon themselves to stop the entire show so no one else got offended. That's SJW behaviour.
No. By Patel's own admission, he bombed. And it wasn't "a couple people", it was the show's organizers. They have every right to end a set that's killing the room.
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Old 5th January 2019, 06:13 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
It has nothing to do with the fact that the incident didn't happen "on the internet". My point is that thanks to the internet, we now live in a highly reactive culture that is already pathologically conditioned to react more and more aggressively to words. A society with triggers just waiting to be detonated, so that next time there's a comedian (or person) who says words like "black" or "gay", the alarms go off. And this happens both online and in real life.
Yeah, I just don't think that's true. It has a lot more to do with campus culture than the internet, which explains why this kind of thing happens at colleges, rather than, I dunno, everywhere.

Originally Posted by qayak
Evidence?
People started calling themselves progressive in the 80s, in response to the contemporary demonization of the word "liberal". Difference in political type have emerged since then, with progressives being generally younger, more anti-capitalist, more diverse, and more concerned with identity.
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Old 5th January 2019, 06:15 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
The term SJW may be new, but PC Culture is basically, the culture of Social Justice Warriors, and if Carlin were alive today, bits such as these would be addressed directly at SJW's:
Is it your position that not saying "******" in polite company is SJW stuff?

Quote:
Can you imagine the kids from Columbia hearing this bit? If they reacted so negatively to a progressive joke that is basically saying that being gay and black is tough in this society, they wouldn't last more than ten seconds of this Carlin bit before their brains just imploded.
I'm sure they'd think it sucked, but then so do I. Stand up rarely ages well, and I'm not one of the people who idolizes Carlin anyway. By the time I was old enough to appreciate him, he was a dried up cynical husk, and not especially funny.
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Old 5th January 2019, 09:01 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
Yeah, I just don't think that's true. It has a lot more to do with campus culture than the internet, which explains why this kind of thing happens at colleges, rather than, I dunno, everywhere.
Have you been living under a rock? It does happen everywhere. This type of reaction happens all the times in comedy clubs, as well as the internet.
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Old 5th January 2019, 09:33 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Have you been living under a rock? It does happen everywhere. This type of reaction happens all the times in comedy clubs, as well as the internet.
No, it really doesn't. People aren't given justifications for why they're being booted at comedy clubs. They aren't "invited to leave". They aren't given closing remarks.

If you bomb at a comedy club so badly that you threaten the next act or the bottom line, they'll just tell you to get off, or cut your mike.
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Old 5th January 2019, 11:15 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
No, it really doesn't. People aren't given justifications for why they're being booted at comedy clubs. They aren't "invited to leave". They aren't given closing remarks.

If you bomb at a comedy club so badly that you threaten the next act or the bottom line, they'll just tell you to get off, or cut your mike.
You've jumped the shark on this one. All the lies and fake outrage aimed at Patel one would expect from an SJW toeing the party line. I guess you lot are like Mao.

One question: How could Patel threaten the next act when he was the last act?
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Old 5th January 2019, 11:40 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
You've jumped the shark on this one. All the lies and fake outrage aimed at Patel one would expect from an SJW toeing the party line. I guess you lot are like Mao.
I haven’t expressed any outrage, fake or otherwise, towards Patel. I also haven’t lied about him. You’re exceedingly quick with accusations of dishonesty—have you managed to make it stick once?

Quote:
One question: How could Patel threaten the next act when he was the last act?
You’re also not very good at basic reasoning tasks. I was putting forward a hypothetical analogous situation. You can tell by the way I said “at a comedy club.”
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:05 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
I haven’t expressed any outrage, fake or otherwise, towards Patel. I also haven’t lied about him. You’re exceedingly quick with accusations of dishonesty—have you managed to make it stick once?


You’re also not very good at basic reasoning tasks. I was putting forward a hypothetical analogous situation. You can tell by the way I said “at a comedy club.”
If it's an analogy then it is relatable. How is it relatable if Patel didn't do any of that? It isn't and you know. Manufactured outrage about an incident you admit was based on a lie and you perpetuate the lie with more lies. Typical.
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:11 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
The term SJW may be new, but PC Culture is basically, the culture of Social Justice Warriors, and if Carlin were alive today, bits such as these would be addressed directly at SJW's:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Can you imagine the kids from Columbia hearing this bit? If they reacted so negatively to a progressive joke that is basically saying that being gay and black is tough in this society, they wouldn't last more than ten seconds of this Carlin bit before their brains just imploded.

Nowadays hardly anybody thinks it's funny when Carlin called rapists stupid if they raped old women instead of young ones. It may upset Ron Tomkins that it is so, but it isn't so because SJWs or PC culture is oppressive. It is so because the joke is lame. If it took SJWs to make people realize that, more power to 'em!
That you can't abolish racism by making it inappropriate to use the N-word is pretty obvious. Only very bad snowflake comedians (and their snowflake audience) would think that they are being oppressed because they can't use the word anymore.
RIP, Carlin!
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:11 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
Is it your position that not saying "******" in polite company is SJW stuff?
Wow! New year so this being the dumbest thing I've read all year isn't saying much this early but this may very well top my last year dumbest thing read and it was in this thread as well.

It isn't polite company, its a comedy club/venue where people go to listen to comedians.

Quote:
I'm sure they'd think it sucked, but then so do I. Stand up rarely ages well, and I'm not one of the people who idolizes Carlin anyway. By the time I was old enough to appreciate him, he was a dried up cynical husk, and not especially funny.
Nice dodge. It wasn't about whether today's students, or you, would like it. It was about Carlin aiming the routine at what we call SJWs today.
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:12 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
If it's an analogy then it is relatable. How is it relatable if Patel didn't do any of that? It isn't and you know.
He did. He bombed.
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:24 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
It isn't polite company, its a comedy club/venue where people go to listen to comedians.
You’re failing at basic reasoning tasks again. Ron told me that this routine was targeted at SJWs. So I’m asking: are you an SJW if you just don’t want to use that word? If someone you know uses it pejoratively, are you an SJW if you think they’re probably a racist after that? I’m not talking about using it in a comedy club.

Quote:
Nice dodge. It wasn't about whether today's students, or you, would like it. It was about Carlin aiming the routine at what we call SJWs today.
What the ****? Ron literally asked what the kids at Columbia would think about it.

You’re failing at more then basic reasoning tasks now.
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:27 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Nowadays hardly anybody thinks it's funny when Carlin called rapists stupid if they raped old women instead of young ones. It may upset Ron Tomkins that it is so, but it isn't so because SJWs or PC culture is oppressive. It is so because the joke is lame. If it took SJWs to make people realize that, more power to 'em!
That you can't abolish racism by making it inappropriate to use the N-word is pretty obvious. Only very bad snowflake comedians (and their snowflake audience) would think that they are being oppressed because they can't use the word anymore.
RIP, Carlin!
Once again, someone who doesn't know anything about comedy. Jim Jeffries does an entire routine about Bill Cosby raping women. And the crowd roared with laughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM6_5EcJ790

He then goes on to make fun of the people who said you can't make jokes about rape and points out the ironic fact that the last comedian anybody would protest would have been Bill Cosby.
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Old 6th January 2019, 04:55 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
In the US, we seem to be in the middle of an over-correction period. Casual (and often more overt) racism and homophobia were the norm and tolerated by most everyone until recently, now there is a seemingly growing subset who fiercely want to eradicate racism and homophobia by doing the social equivalent of killing a bear with an atom bomb. Is this the only way humans can get to a rational position on things? (going from one extreme to the other and eventually balancing out?)
I am very late to the show but I'd like to see if anyone has something to say about my understanding of this. I am not american, neither citizen nor resident, but I have a deep interest in US culture.

A comedian was paid by a student organization to perform on the property of that organization and was kicked out. What's the issue?
If a church threw out an atheist or a scientific conference a crackpot, that wouldn't be an issue either.
If you are trying to control what speech an organization allows or promotes with its money and propery then you are trying to infringe on freedom of speech.

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It appears the oppressed are now using the tactics of the oppressors. Growing up in the 80s/90s it was usually older conservatives who wanted to censor and shut down people down -
Hang on, aren't we seeing "older conservatives" wanting to "censor and shut people down"?
If a newspaper commissions an article but then doesn't print it, that's exercising freedom of the press, right? When you try to force the newspaper to print an article because of your ideals, then you are infringing the freedom of the press, right?
Replace the press with a stage and the logic still holds, right?

Quote:
and college age people made champions out of Frank Zappa (PMRC) Howard Stern (FCC), etc for taking them on. Now it is much more likely for college age liberals to censor, uninvite, and shut off microphones.
That's not really the same, is it? Stern was fined for "indecent speech" by the FCC, a government body. George Carlin's seven dirty words famously went to the supreme court. And guess what? It's constitutional to censor indecency.
Here are the 7 words: ****, piss, ****, ****, **********, ************, tits. I did not put these asterisks there. Maybe I should email reason. com?

Quote:
Tit for tat, I guess?
Not at all. Censorship of indecency is deeply rooted in american culture. Nowadays many people consider racism to be indecent and so obviously they expect it to be censored.
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:43 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Nowadays hardly anybody thinks it's funny when Carlin called rapists stupid if they raped old women instead of young ones. It may upset Ron Tomkins that it is so, but it isn't so because SJWs or PC culture is oppressive. It is so because the joke is lame. If it took SJWs to make people realize that, more power to 'em!
That you can't abolish racism by making it inappropriate to use the N-word is pretty obvious. Only very bad snowflake comedians (and their snowflake audience) would think that they are being oppressed because they can't use the word anymore.
RIP, Carlin!
Oh, my God! Look! It's Dann! Just when we thought this thread couldn't get better!

So Dann, I only have one question for you regarding your post:

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Nowadays hardly anybody thinks it's funny when Carlin called rapists stupid if they raped old women instead of young ones.
Care to support that assertion with any evidence?
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:52 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
I am very late to the show but I'd like to see if anyone has something to say about my understanding of this. I am not american, neither citizen nor resident, but I have a deep interest in US culture.

A comedian was paid by a student organization to perform on the property of that organization and was kicked out. What's the issue?
If a church threw out an atheist or a scientific conference a crackpot, that wouldn't be an issue either.
If you are trying to control what speech an organization allows or promotes with its money and propery then you are trying to infringe on freedom of speech.


Hang on, aren't we seeing "older conservatives" wanting to "censor and shut people down"?
If a newspaper commissions an article but then doesn't print it, that's exercising freedom of the press, right? When you try to force the newspaper to print an article because of your ideals, then you are infringing the freedom of the press, right?
Replace the press with a stage and the logic still holds, right?


That's not really the same, is it? Stern was fined for "indecent speech" by the FCC, a government body. George Carlin's seven dirty words famously went to the supreme court. And guess what? It's constitutional to censor indecency.
Here are the 7 words: ****, piss, ****, ****, **********, ************, tits. I did not put these asterisks there. Maybe I should email reason. com?


Not at all. Censorship of indecency is deeply rooted in american culture. Nowadays many people consider racism to be indecent and so obviously they expect it to be censored.
You've missed my point entirely. Yes, Howard Stern was fined by the FCC. Young college age people at the time saw him as a champion of free speech. In the Patel incident in today times, Patel was shut down by young college age people.

Of course they have a right to, no one said they don't (your strawmen notwithstanding). I'm more interested in why the drastic change.
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Old 6th January 2019, 09:16 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Oh, my God! Look! It's Dann! Just when we thought this thread couldn't get better!

So Dann, I only have one question for you regarding your post:



Care to support that assertion with any evidence?

No, not really. But so far, I haven't heard anybody else say that they think that what was obviously supposed to be a joke is still funny. At the time, however, people did laugh at it, and apparently you still think it's funny, so you are one of the exceptions to my "hardly anybody." So maybe you can explain why you still find it hilarious ...
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Old 6th January 2019, 09:21 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Once again, someone who doesn't know anything about comedy. Jim Jeffries does an entire routine about Bill Cosby raping women. And the crowd roared with laughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM6_5EcJ790

He then goes on to make fun of the people who said you can't make jokes about rape and points out the ironic fact that the last comedian anybody would protest would have been Bill Cosby.

So what is your argument?! Do you think that it's funny when Carlin said that a rapist is dumb when he rapes old women instead of young ones?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 6th January 2019, 09:44 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
You've missed my point entirely. Yes, Howard Stern was fined by the FCC. Young college age people at the time saw him as a champion of free speech. In the Patel incident in today times, Patel was shut down by young college age people.
Well, what is the point?

Quote:
Of course they have a right to, no one said they don't (your strawmen notwithstanding).
You may want to check out the comments at your link.

Quote:
I'm more interested in why the drastic change.
Can you explain the change you see?
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:00 AM   #343
Max_mang
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Well, what is the point?


You may want to check out the comments at your link.


Can you explain the change you see?
Shutting down speech used to be something I only saw from older conservatives while young college age folks championed those who were shut down. In current times, young college age folks are the ones shutting down speech.

That shift is the part I'm interested in. I don't know what about this notion is so difficult for you to get.
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:06 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, not really.
Well, at least you're honest

Originally Posted by dann View Post
But so far, I haven't heard anybody else say that they think that what was obviously supposed to be a joke is still funny.
You can try checking the number of likes and positive comments/feedback that Carlin's videos get, for a ballpark idea of how much popularity his comedy still has
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:21 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Shutting down speech used to be something I only saw from older conservatives while young college age folks championed those who were shut down. In current times, young college age folks are the ones shutting down speech.
I don't see where speech is being shut down here.

If I buy a book and put throw it away for some reason before I'm finished, am I trying to shut down the press?

Quote:
That shift is the part I'm interested in. I don't know what about this notion is so difficult for you to get.
I am going to make a guess here. Every social group takes certain things for granted. These things do not need to be spelled out in ingroup conversations. That may make conversations unintelligible for outgroup members.
I do not see how the event shows speech being shut down, nor do I see any shift.
Please help me by spelling out these taken-for-granted things.
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:34 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
That's it? That's the offensive joke? I've heard the "why would someone choose to be gay" line before used by people debating whether or not homosexuality is something that can be cured. I'm sure I've used it.

But ya I see, now it's, "Who says being gay is a bad thing?" Or being black for that matter. Well being either one sure sounds like a pain in the ass to me, which was the point of the comedian.

I read the news and see how these groups of people are sometimes treated, and I'm glad I don't have to put up with that crap. What's wrong with saying that? I would not choose to be gay or black in this country, or most others.

A comedian got kicked out of a college comedy act for that? The Ministry Of Overly Offensive Jokes?

George Carlin would have been a shoe salesman today.
George Carlin was funny.
Audience reaction indicates that, in this case, Patel was not. He was then asked to cut his set short and leave the stage.

This has happened to every comic. Most learn from it- including learning that the audience was not on the same wavelength as the comic.

Only rabid right-wingers then conclude that it’s all a conspiracy of the feminazi SJWs to silence their truth.

Grow up
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:38 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Well, at least you're honest

Yes, I am. But apparently you don't want to explain why you think the rape joke is hilarious.

Quote:
You can try checking the number of likes and positive comments/feedback that Carlin's videos get, for a ballpark idea of how much popularity his comedy still has

Yes, I probably can, but I won't. I'm not really interested in his videos. What interests me is why you seem to think that his anecdote about a guy raping old women instead of young ones is funny.
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:42 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
I don't see where speech is being shut down here.

If I buy a book and put throw it away for some reason before I'm finished, am I trying to shut down the press?


I am going to make a guess here. Every social group takes certain things for granted. These things do not need to be spelled out in ingroup conversations. That may make conversations unintelligible for outgroup members.
I do not see how the event shows speech being shut down, nor do I see any shift.
Please help me by spelling out these taken-for-granted things.
I get it now. You're trolling. You had me going with it too, good job.
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Old 6th January 2019, 10:57 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
I am very late to the show but I'd like to see if anyone has something to say about my understanding of this. I am not american, neither citizen nor resident, but I have a deep interest in US culture.

A comedian was paid by a student organization to perform on the property of that organization and was kicked out. What's the issue?
If a church threw out an atheist or a scientific conference a crackpot, that wouldn't be an issue either.
If you are trying to control what speech an organization allows or promotes with its money and propery then you are trying to infringe on freedom of speech.
You left out a lot.

1 He was invited by the AAA because he is a successful Asian comedian and they were celebrating being Asian.

2 He was the headliner and his name was used to sell out the show.

3 It was listed on their website, and on every ticket, that he would be doing stand up comedy.

Quote:
Hang on, aren't we seeing "older conservatives" wanting to "censor and shut people down"?
Sometimes and that's not right either.

Quote:
If a newspaper commissions an article but then doesn't print it, that's exercising freedom of the press, right?
Not necessarily. Look at the debacle with Trump and the tabloids. He used his friend at the tabloid to kill stories about his sexual assaults of women. Currently being investigated. the tabloid dude has already plead guilty.

Quote:
When you try to force the newspaper to print an article because of your ideals, then you are infringing the freedom of the press, right?
No. You were commissioned to do the article by them.

Quote:
Replace the press with a stage and the logic still holds, right?
No. People paid to see Patel, not to hear about the beliefs of an SJW.

Quote:
Not at all. Censorship of indecency is deeply rooted in american culture. Nowadays many people consider racism to be indecent and so obviously they expect it to be censored.
You are really out of the loop. The joke wasn't/isn't racist and cannot ever be construed as being so. It isn't homophobic and cannot be construed that way either. In fact, the joke is anti-racist and anti-homophobic. Apparently these SJWs were just waiting for "trigger words" and heard nothing else except the words "black" and "gay."

The censorship comes in when a lie is used to silence someone (The claim the joke was racist or homophobic.) and when one group gets to decide what others get to hear (People went to that show to hear Patel but someone else decided they weren't allowed to hear his jokes.).
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Last edited by novaphile; 6th January 2019 at 02:47 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:00 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
What interests me is why you seem to think that his anecdote about a guy raping old women instead of young ones is funny.
Because it's a joke well told. A joke isn't a joke without the comedian. that's why when Carlin told jokes 5000 seat theatres roared with laugher. When you tell a joke, no one cares.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:01 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I get it now. You're trolling. You had me going with it too, good job.
No. I made a great effort not to be rude.
It looks to me that you simply cannot answer the questions. So rather than admit to yourself that you are a victim of groupthink you just throw a hissy fit.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:12 AM   #352
Max_mang
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
No. I made a great effort not to be rude.
It looks to me that you simply cannot answer the questions. So rather than admit to yourself that you are a victim of groupthink you just throw a hissy fit.
If you're being genuine and not trolling, then I simply can't have a productive discussion with you. I can't be more clear than I have been and your rebuttals to what I've said look like non-sequiturs and strawmen to me. Thanks for your time but we will not be able to have a productive discussion.

(Just in case I've walked into a "gotcha" situation, I'm not shutting down your speech. Your posts still deserve to be read and you deserve to make as many posts as you like, I just choose to not respond to them.)
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:19 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
Yep. And here is that post.

Originally Posted by qayak View Post
It was in your second link, halfway down.

I had read my cites. No need to "try it." When you claimed it was in the second link, I re-read my cite, thinking I had missed it.

Rest assured banguetbear, anyone reading the thread for comprehension can clearly see that qayak flat out lied when saying that. Then tried to sneakily say it was in another link.

When someone cites without actual links and quotes they are almost always not reporting the cite correctly. That's why they do that. And then when you ask them to just quote and link the ******* cite like a normal person they always go with the "durrr are you lazy" crap.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:20 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
So what is your argument?!
It isn't an argument so much as a counter argument to your claim tht rape jokes aren't funny in our society any longer. You don't know much about it but you make out like you're an expert.

Quote:
Do you think that it's funny when Carlin said that a rapist is dumb when he rapes old women instead of young ones?
Yes. And further to your false claim about Carlin's jokes not being relevant: Carlin's videos get about 2 million views per year and he is still referenced by comedians and their audiences as one of the true kings of comedy. You assume it is only because they haven't listened to his rape jokes, I contend it is specifically because they have listened those jokes and realize he is a comedian telling jokes, not a condoner of rape. As reference: One of the top comedians today gets about 3 million views per year while lesser comedians get about 400 thousand views. Carlin seems to be relevant despite what you claim.

You have to be a special kind of stupid to think that anyone is suddenly going to become a rapist because they heard a George Carlin, or Jim Jeffries, joke. But there are stupid people and some did make that claim about Jeffries so he put a special disclaimer in his routine which made it even more hilarious.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:30 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Rest assured banguetbear, anyone reading the thread for comprehension can clearly see that qayak flat out lied when saying that. Then tried to sneakily say it was in another link.
You too are mistaken. I said their were two references, one written and one video. The written one appears in the second link just like I said but Banquetbear said it was just a citation written by someone who wasn't actually there. Of course that wasn't true and I pointed out that it was a transcript of what happened written by the guy who shot the video and posted to the web. The author of the article used it. I told BB to go look at the only video of the incident online. Banquetbear did but claimed they couldn't understand what was written on the site where they viewed the video. That was puzzling (not really, I knew BB was just playing games.) because it was that transcript word for word and the person who made the video took credit for it.

Thanks for being a good little minion for BB though.

ETA: Here's the actual exchange:

Quote:
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
The organisers who interrupted Patel's show never mentioned anything except the black and gay joke. If this were an accumulation thing they would have mentioned other things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...do you have a cite for the organizers stating the black and gay joke was why they asked Patel to leave the stage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
It was in your second link, halfway down.
Link in question: https://reason.com/blog/2018/12/04/c...ts-kick-snl-co

Relevant part of link:

Quote:
The Spectator, though, lists one of the allegedly inappropriate jokes:

During the event, Patel's performance featured commentary on his experience living in a diverse area of New York City—including a joke about a gay, black man in his neighborhood—which AAA officials deemed inappropriate. Patel joked that being gay cannot be a choice because "no one looks in the mirror and thinks, 'this black thing is too easy, let me just add another thing to it.'"
This is the point where Banquetbear made the error of thinking that because it included the AAA statement, that was all that was in the link.

Quote:
...the Reason article cites the statement from the AAA, which I cited in my first link and I quoted in its entirety. I can't see what you are talking about. I might be missing it. Can you quote exactly what they said?
And this is the point I got tired with Banquetbear being so obtuse and said:

Quote:
Oh FFS! Watch the video! The woman who told him to leave specifically brings up the joke about being black and gay at about the 30 second mark.
The exchange happened exactly as I have maintained all along. Anyone who actually read the exchange, and the links to verify claims, would know what happened. The rest are just following the dogma. That one little exchange has allowed me to separate the truly interested people in this thread from the SJWs, allowing me to recognise which was which very early on in their responses to me.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:43 AM   #356
GnaGnaMan
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
You left out a lot.

1 He was invited by the AAA because he is a successful Asian comedian and they were celebrating being Asian.

2 He was the headliner and his name was used to sell out the show.

3 It was listed on their website, and on every ticket, that he would be doing stand up comedy.
I left that out because I don't see the relevance. Can you explain?

Quote:
Not necessarily. Look at the debacle with Trump and the tabloids. He used his friend at the tabloid to kill stories about his sexual assaults of women. Currently being investigated. the tabloid dude has already plead guilty.
No. You were commissioned to do the article by them.
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.

Quote:
No. People paid to see Patel, not to hear about the beliefs of an SJW.
You're arguing that it's a breach of contract? Makes sense but that doesn't seem what all the outrage is about.

Quote:
You are really out of the loop. The joke wasn't/isn't racist and cannot ever be construed as being so. It isn't homophobic and cannot be construed that way either. In fact, the joke is anti-racist and anti-homophobic.
I wasn't talking about the joke but generally, as the comment I was replying to was generalizing about young people today.

Quote:
The censorship comes in when a lie is used to silence someone (The claim the joke was racist or homophobic.)
I heard that the lie was that the technical guy had to leave. Where do you get your info from?

Quote:
and when one group gets to decide what others get to hear (People went to that show to hear Patel but someone else decided they weren't allowed to hear his jokes.).
How can they do that? They can just get the jokes on youtube or wherever.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:48 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Yes, the term can apply to a spectrum of people who put the dogma of social justice ahead of reason and facts. For example, SJW would be someone who believes that the myth of gender fluidity gives LGBTQ people the right to exist and want laws that define how you are allowed to address them.

Those are all different issues and one does not arise from the other.
Do you deny that LGBTQ people have “the right to exist?”

And who the hell is advocating laws, not simply saying don’t be a dick and address people in a civil manner?

You are the biggest SJW here, and while I disagree with your definitions of both “social” and “justice “, you are the one advocating for a business entity being prevented from acting in the interests of its clients in the name of “Social Justice.”

Own your hypocrisy
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:24 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Do you deny that LGBTQ people have “the right to exist?”
No.

Quote:
And who the hell is advocating laws, not simply saying don’t be a dick and address people in a civil manner?
You're really out of the loop. The Federal Government of Canada and the Province of Ontario both passed laws making it mandatory that you use certain language when referring to gender.

Quote:
You are the biggest SJW here, and while I disagree with your definitions of both “social” and “justice “, you are the one advocating for a business entity being prevented from acting in the interests of its clients in the name of “Social Justice.”
Tell me who the business entity was and who the clients were here. I wanna make sure you have it right.

Quote:
Own your hypocrisy
Classic SJW speak. Hypocrisy is inviting a comedian to do his stand up comedy routine, using his name to sell tickets to your event, and then cutting him off by claiming an anti-racist, and anti-homophobe, joke is both racist and homophobic.

Own your stupid.
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:37 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
I left that out because I don't see the relevance. Can you explain?
People bought tickets to see him. The organizers knew what he was going to be doing and yet they claim they didn't know. At best you can say they didn't do their due diligence.

Quote:
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here.
That it is censorship.

Quote:
You're arguing that it's a breach of contract?
That's one part of it, yes.

Quote:
Makes sense but that doesn't seem what all the outrage is about.
there isn't outrage, there is faux outrage. SJWs decided that an anti-racist, anti-homophobe, joke was actually racist and homophobic. Now SJWs try to justify their actions by repeating the lies and ignoring evidence.

Quote:
I wasn't talking about the joke but generally, as the comment I was replying to was generalizing about young people today.
If you are talking about unrelated things, say so. If you feel they are related, tie what you are saying to the incident under discussion.

As you were just typing words to be typing words we can ignore this part.

Quote:
I heard that the lie was that the technical guy had to leave. Where do you get your info from?
From the horse's mouth. The video! WATCH THE ******* video!

Quote:
How can they do that? They can just get the jokes on youtube or wherever.
Then why sell tickets to his show? Why didn't they just say "Our special Asian this year is Nimesh Patel! You can see his videos on Youtube!
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Old 6th January 2019, 02:30 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
If you're being genuine and not trolling, then I simply can't have a productive discussion with you. I can't be more clear than I have been and your rebuttals to what I've said look like non-sequiturs and strawmen to me. Thanks for your time but we will not be able to have a productive discussion.
Well, I will try again. Maybe I was not clear.

Here are things I consider to be attempts at shutting down speech:
-Laws that punish certain speech.
-Terroristic acts to deter such speech
-Harrassment with the same aim
and certainly other things.

Being asked to leave just does not seem to belong there. Free speech doesn't mean that you have a right to be listend to. It certainly does not mean that you have a right to be paid for it.

Is there a call for a boycott that I am not aware of?

You mentioned that "college age people made champions out of Frank Zappa (PMRC) Howard Stern (FCC) who was repeatedly fined for indecency". AFAICT today they are more open to sexual matters than any previous generation. It looks to me like they continue to push the boundaries of acceptable decency.
I just don't see a shift.

Quote:
(Just in case I've walked into a "gotcha" situation, I'm not shutting down your speech. Your posts still deserve to be read and you deserve to make as many posts as you like, I just choose to not respond to them.)
No. You have to sit through the entire show or else you are shutting down my speech. That I can appear in other venues make other posts is irrelevant for reasons that will not be spelled out.
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