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Tags Mike Pompeo , religion and politics , Trump administration

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Old 28th December 2018, 10:32 AM   #1
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In it till the Rapture!

I don't know whether this has been noted anywhere else, but Mr Pompeo let us know he's doing the Lord's work.....Holy expletive deleted....

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Old 28th December 2018, 01:48 PM   #2
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People who think the world is going to end soon are poor candidates for government service, IMO. Sustainability is going to be of no interest whatsoever and they're probably happy to hasten Armageddon in the Middle East. Good thing Pompeo has been "outed" because even though there are voters who agree with him, a lot of people won't. One article said Pompeo is part of White House bible study run by a fervent anti-Catholic. Also, I seem to recall Israelis being none too happy to be associated with so-called Christians who seem to think they're doing Israel some kind of favor by announcing that Israel will be a key part of the Second Coming and "perfected" which as far as I tell means converted to Christianity so Jews can go to heaven after all.

It's not so much that evangelicals follow the bible; it's that they follow the most bat-**** crazy part of the bible. If Pompeo were a Catholic (which I probably assumed he was), I wouldn't be so concerned.

Best-case scenario, Pompeo is a hypocrite playing to his audience at that time.
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Old 28th December 2018, 02:13 PM   #3
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Scary. But not surprising.
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Old 28th December 2018, 02:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Scary. But not surprising.
I hear this in Timon the meerkat's voice.
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Old 28th December 2018, 02:21 PM   #5
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There should be a separation of church and state.... oh wait...
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Old 28th December 2018, 07:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Scary. But not surprising.
Well actually, I am surprised. I know Trump has a bunch of Evangelicals around him. Pompeo must have been recommended by Pence or something.

But Rapture believers? I would have thought that's an extreme element within the Evangelical crowd. Perhaps I should reconsider.
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
.
But Rapture believers? I would have thought that's an extreme element within the Evangelical crowd. Perhaps I should reconsider.
What do you mean? Evangelicals are the primary believers in the rapture.
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
What do you mean? Evangelicals are the primary believers in the rapture.
Sure but even if all Rapture believers are Evangelical, not all Evangelicals are necessarily Rapture believers. If they are, it's news to me.
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sure but even if all Rapture believers are Evangelical, not all Evangelicals are necessarily Rapture believers. If they are, it's news to me.

They possibly are Rapture believers, but smart enough not to publicise it.


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Old 28th December 2018, 08:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sure but even if all Rapture believers are Evangelical, not all Evangelicals are necessarily Rapture believers. If they are, it's news to me.
??? That doesn't make much sense as a response.

Rapture believers aren't an extreme element within the Evangelicalism, they are a majority.
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
They possibly are Rapture believers, but smart enough not to publicise it.
Uh, no. They are very loud about it. It's actually built in to the name Evangelical, which means to publicize and promote.

Is the situation much different in your country?
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:40 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
...

Rapture believers aren't an extreme element within the Evangelicalism, they are a majority.
Link?
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:51 PM   #13
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
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Old 28th December 2018, 10:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Great. Wiki data dump.

How about a quote of the proportion of Evangelicals that are also Rapture believers?
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:00 AM   #15
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Just the first sentence is sufficient.
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:07 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Just the first sentence is sufficient.
That says nothing about proportion of Evangelicals who believe in the Rapture.
Quote:
The rapture is an eschatological concept of certain Christians, particularly within branches of North American evangelicalism, consisting of an end time event when all Christian believers – living and dead – will rise into Heaven and join Christ.[1][2] Some adherents believe this event is predicted and described in Paul's First Epistle to the Thessalonians in the Bible,[3] where he uses the Greek harpazo (ἁρπάζω), meaning to snatch away or seize.
Remember, this is what you claimed:
Quote:
Rapture believers aren't an extreme element within the Evangelicalism, they are a majority.
I rest my case, not all Evangelicals believe in the Rapture and you have not supported your claim "they are a majority."
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:08 AM   #17
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It's a very american thing at least. Until I started reading things on the internet from american websites I'd never heard of the rapture. If there are any dutch/european denominations that believe that, they are very quiet about it.
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
It's a very american thing at least. Until I started reading things on the internet from american websites I'd never heard of the rapture. If there are any dutch/european denominations that believe that, they are very quiet about it.
It was amplified here by the popular book series by Tim Lahaye called Left Behind. They also turned one (some) of them into a movie. It was like a soap opera you wanted to keep watching to see what happened next.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:17 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Uh, no. They are very loud about it. It's actually built in to the name Evangelical, which means to publicize and promote.

Is the situation much different in your country?

I honestly don't know any rapture frootloops (i.e, promoting the rapture is their major hobby), and cannot recall the last time I read about one. I imagine we have some, but they hold no prominence of any sort that I am aware of.


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Old 29th December 2018, 12:23 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Great. Wiki data dump.

How about a quote of the proportion of Evangelicals that are also Rapture believers?
Evangelical/rapture believers. Same thing.
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Old 29th December 2018, 12:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Evangelical/rapture believers. Same thing.


No it isn't.
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Old 29th December 2018, 01:22 AM   #22
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The vast majority of evangelicals believe the rapture will happen at some point in the future.

A small subset of evangelicals believe the rapture will happen within a double digit number of years.

Glad I am able to clear that up.
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Old 29th December 2018, 07:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


No it isn't.
Yup, I think This Is The End has summed it up.

when talking about "the Rapture" in these terms, like you, I would think that's supposed to be imminent, or at least within a lifetime.

believing in a day of judgement is not the same.
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Old 29th December 2018, 07:13 AM   #24
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In a global survey of Evangelical Protestant Leaders, " Six-in-ten leaders (61%) also say they believe in the Rapture of the Church — the teaching that believers will be instantly caught up with Christ before the Great Tribulation, leaving non-believers behind to suffer on Earth."



http://www.pewforum.org/2011/06/22/g...urvey-beliefs/
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
In a global survey of Evangelical Protestant Leaders, " Six-in-ten leaders (61%) also say they believe in the Rapture of the Church — the teaching that believers will be instantly caught up with Christ before the Great Tribulation, leaving non-believers behind to suffer on Earth."



http://www.pewforum.org/2011/06/22/g...urvey-beliefs/
Interesting in context of the GOP's relationship with evangelicals

Quote:
With near unanimity, the Lausanne leaders see two practices as essential to being a good evangelical Christian. Virtually all of the leaders surveyed (97%) say it is necessary to follow the teachings of Christ in one’s personal and family life. Nearly as many (94%) say that working to lead others to Christ is part of being a good evangelical.

Smaller but still substantial majorities of leaders also agree on several other essential behaviors. About three-quarters (73%) say working to help the poor and needy is essential for being a good evangelical Christian; 24% say this is important but not essential. There is widespread agreement about this activity among leaders from all regions of the world. Fully 74% of leaders from the Global North say helping the poor and needy is essential, as do 72% of leaders from the Global South.
And in answer to Skeptic Ginger's point - there is only a slight majority in favour of an imminent Rapture

Quote:
A slight majority of leaders (52%) believe that Christ will either probably (44%) or definitely (8%) return in their lifetimes. Six-in-ten leaders (61%) also say they believe in the Rapture of the Church — the teaching that believers will be instantly caught up with Christ before the Great Tribulation, leaving non-believers behind to suffer on Earth.
ETA: But only a minority in the Global North (which includes the US, as well as Australia)

Quote:
When it comes to these beliefs about eschatology or the End Times, regional differences once again are notable. Two-thirds of Global South leaders (67%) say Christ definitely or probably will return in their lifetimes, compared with a third of Global North leaders (34%). Renewalist leaders are also more likely than non-renewalists to believe that Christ is likely to return in their lifetimes (60% vs. 47%). Among leaders from the Global South, 73% say they believe in the Rapture, compared with 44% of Global North leaders. But majorities of those surveyed from all regions except Europe believe in the rapture of the Church; evangelical leaders from sub-Saharan Africa are especially likely to believe in the Rapture (82%).
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:28 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
In a global survey of Evangelical Protestant Leaders, " Six-in-ten leaders (61%) also say they believe in the Rapture of the Church — the teaching that believers will be instantly caught up with Christ before the Great Tribulation, leaving non-believers behind to suffer on Earth."

http://www.pewforum.org/2011/06/22/g...urvey-beliefs/
I thought about citing that but assumed it will fall on deaf ears because it's specifically about leadership. Here is something more on point for someone who needs a water is wet explanation:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...turn-to-earth/ (ETA: I'm tempted to predict the excuse for ignoring this one).

The fact is that, in the US, the number are such that it's pretty close to arithmetically impossible for any large Christian sect not to be dominated by Rapture believers of some kind. Rapture belief and related ideas, such as evolution denial, are rampant in the US.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-la...ing-scripture/
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Old 29th December 2018, 08:36 AM   #27
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See my last most before this one for links.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


No it isn't.
While you are technically correct that not all Evangelicals are believers in the Rapture the majority are. If not Evangelicals, then who? Which sect did you think had the most? You apparently thought they'd be a fringe group amongst Evangelicals. In the US Rapture believers are so numerous that they can't be a fringe group in any large Christian sect. There's just too many of them for the numbers to work any other way.

Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
The vast majority of evangelicals believe the rapture will happen at some point in the future.

A small subset of evangelicals believe the rapture will happen within a double digit number of years.

Glad I am able to clear that up.
That "small subset" it actually still a majority of Evangelicals.
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:15 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
I thought about citing that but assumed it will fall on deaf ears because it's specifically about leadership. Here is something more on point for someone who needs a water is wet explanation:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...turn-to-earth/

The fact is that, in the US, the number are such that it's pretty close to arithmetically impossible for any large Christian sect not to be dominated by Rapture believers of some kind. Rapture belief and related ideas, such as evolution denial, are rampant in the US.
As your earlier wiki link showed, the second coming and the rapture are not necessarily the same.
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:22 AM   #29
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Good timing, Egg.
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:28 AM   #30
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I wish there were a rapture-believer in here - I have some questions about the mechanics of this event.
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:41 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
I wish there were a rapture-believer in here - I have some questions about the mechanics of this event.
I've a friend who's a rapturist and has kept me up-to-date on the relevant details, perhaps I can be of assistance?
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Old 29th December 2018, 09:44 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
I've a friend who's a rapturist and has kept me up-to-date on the relevant details, perhaps I can be of assistance?
Can we have their stuff?
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Old 29th December 2018, 10:12 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Can we have their stuff?
In the event it happens I'd be happy to forward you 100+ tomes on why you're going to hell.
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Old 29th December 2018, 10:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
In the event it happens I'd be happy to forward you 100+ tomes on why you're going to hell.
Yes, yes, yes, but can we have their stuff?
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Old 29th December 2018, 10:55 AM   #35
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He's an Evangelical deacon and teaches Sunday school, so it shouldn't be much of a shock.
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Old 29th December 2018, 11:33 AM   #36
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NVM

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Old 29th December 2018, 12:08 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Yes, yes, yes, but can we have their stuff?
Yes, including their dirty undies, since it is common wisdom that you get raptured in the nude.
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Old 29th December 2018, 01:18 PM   #38
bruto
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Do the rapturees get any advance warning? I mean, I think I'd be really pissed off if I spent my last days on earth doing laundry and scrubbing the floors and paying off debts when what I really wanted to do was relax and have a beer, and then POOF the good-for-nothing clowns next door end up not only with all the beer but a basket of clean undies too!
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Old 29th December 2018, 05:01 PM   #39
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Yes, yes, yes, but can we have their stuff?
What makes you think the sort of person who would get raptured would even have any stuff you'd want? DVD box set of "The Waltons", perhaps, if they even have a DVD player. No alcohol, no sex toys, no porn. Possibly not even soda. They're not people who have Grand Theft Auto, a freezer bag full of coke, and a collection of exciting leather costumes is what I'm getting at. These are people who are too boring to get into Hell.
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Old 29th December 2018, 05:02 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
The vast majority of evangelicals believe the rapture will happen at some point in the future.

A small subset of evangelicals believe the rapture will happen within a double digit number of years.

Glad I am able to clear that up.
And you know this, how?
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