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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:06 PM   #41
theprestige
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
My sister and her husband both work for the government. He's just not getting paid, she's getting paid until her earned time off is depleted, then she won't get paid either. They have two kids. They're burning through their savings, and if the shutdown continues they'll have to find other jobs.
To be fair, they probably should have started looking for other jobs the last time this happened. Or the time before that. Or maybe this was the point where they should have started making informed decisions about whether to pursue a career with the federal government.

Or maybe all of this history should have tipped them off.

Unless part of their savings strategy was to set aside money specifically as a hedge against this kind of job uncertainty, in which case everything is going pretty much as planned for them, and when the shutdown ends they'll start replenishing their contingency fund.

Quote:
I'll pass along how it's no big deal, per the poster above. I hope he finds himself without income for a while, so he can learn sympathy.
I've been without income for a while. I have nothing but sympathy for people who are stuck in a crap job they can't get out of. We should definitely help those people.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:08 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't know if this is a thing can or does ever happen in other countries like is like our and I'm just going to assume this is another thing all your foreigners look at us and rightfully think we're crazy for but this is like the 15th shutdown in the last 40 years or so.
The POTUS is like a third house of congress so the HoR has two hurdles to overcome before a money bill can be signed into law. There is also no mechanism for resolving deadlocks like this so shut downs are more likely in the US.

In parliamentary democracies, the PM already has the support of the lower house so the upper house is the only obstacle to his agenda. Typically, if a supply bill gets rejected by the upper house (many countries don't give the upper house that option) then the only option is to go to the polls early - preferably via a double dissolution.

The only time Australia went close to a shutdown was in 1975. The Senate demanded that a double dissolution be called before they would pass the budget. The PM decided to "tough it out". We will never know who would have blinked first because the governor general sacked the PM thereby creating a completely new controversy.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:12 PM   #43
theprestige
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I think this deserves a second post on a separate point:

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
My sister and her husband both work for the government. He's just not getting paid, she's getting paid until her earned time off is depleted, then she won't get paid either. They have two kids. They're burning through their savings, and if the shutdown continues they'll have to find other jobs.

The government has been shut down for all of twelve days. That's not even one full GSA pay period. (https://www.gsa.gov/buying-selling/p...roll-calendars). Hell, that's not even one full billing cycle for any business other than a loan shark.

How are your sister and her husband "burning through their savings" already?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:15 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
People don't need the government to do stuff... until they do.
This banal truth is not an excuse to blindly fund any and all government activity, without ever stopping to question whether it's actually necessary.

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Take for example the national parks, or the museums that may get shut down. Most people don't spend 24/7 wandering around Yellowstone or visit the Smithsonian every day, but when it comes time for their yearly vacation they may want those things open.
I can see the headlines now: "Government Shutdown: American Vacationers Hardest Hit".

This is undesirable, but not disastrous. If it's on your short list, then perhaps the problem isn't as bad as you think.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:17 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Good old victim blaming.
I blame the Scorpion for stabbing the Toad. But the Scorpion kind of has a point.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:17 PM   #46
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Come to Australia where there has never been anything like this. There is a convention that the Government's budget gets passed. I think the only exception is no new taxes.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:18 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Trumpistas around here aren't even trying anymore. : rolleyes :
Neither is anyone else. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I'll up my game the moment you up yours.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To be fair, they probably should have started looking for other jobs the last time this happened. Or the time before that. Or maybe this was the point where they should have started making informed decisions about whether to pursue a career with the federal government.
Once again, as I have already pointed out before... the 2013 shutdown lasted only about 2 weeks. The previous shutdown had been over a decade before that. Until Trump got into power, the federal government could be seen as a relatively stable place of employment.

And did you ever think that perhaps at least some of the people working for the government might actually take some pride in their work, with the idea that they may actually be benefiting the country as a whole? So basically what you are doing is wanting to punish people who may actually feel a little bit patriotic for working for the government.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:19 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
[snip]


That is not true. While it is true that one does need 60 votes to end cloture, but if cloture is not invoked, then the 60 votes are not needed.



[snip]
And just to emphasize: despite increasing since 1970 filibusters and threats thereof requiring 60 votes to invoke cloture are still relatively rare compared to simple majority votes.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Once again, as I have already pointed out before... the 2013 shutdown lasted only about 2 weeks. The previous shutdown had been over a decade before that. Until Trump got into power, the federal government could be seen as a relatively stable place of employment.

And did you ever think that perhaps at least some of the people working for the government might actually take some pride in their work, with the idea that they may actually be benefiting the country as a whole? So basically what you are doing is wanting to punish people who may actually feel a little bit patriotic for working for the government.
I'm more fascinated by the fact that he's apparently encouraging people not to work for the government. Is that an ideological thing? Because it's ******* stupid.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:25 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think this deserves a second post on a separate point:




The government has been shut down for all of twelve days. That's not even one full GSA pay period. (https://www.gsa.gov/buying-selling/p...roll-calendars). Hell, that's not even one full billing cycle for any business other than a loan shark.

How are your sister and her husband "burning through their savings" already?
If income has ceased, and still bills must be paid, the money has to come from somewhere. If one has savings, one starts using that money. I'll make this part very, very simple for you, as it's quite tricky: if you have five apples and you take away one apple, you will be left with four apples. And four apples is fewer than five apples. If that trend continues, then you'll eventually run out of apples. Do you understand that? That taking away something from a pile of somethings means you have less of that thing?

Let me know which part of that is giving you difficulty. I realize higher maths are complex stuff, but given enough time even you can master them! I believe in you!
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The government has been shut down for all of twelve days. That's not even one full GSA pay period. (https://www.gsa.gov/buying-selling/p...roll-calendars)
...
How are your sister and her husband "burning through their savings" already?
According to your link, employees would have expected a paycheck on December 28th.

Many people have substantial expenses that are due at the start of the month (e.g. Rent or mortgage payments). If they didn't receive the last paycheck on the 28th, then they would have had to pay those expenses out of their savings on January 1st.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:27 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
He's still got enough cash to hit McD's. That probably wouldn't affect him much.

Is there a government funded ass kisser? They would need to be clipped first.
Second. First should be giving his secret service protection officers a free choice, work unpaid protecting Trump or transfer to other duties paid for the duration.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:27 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Up until Trump was elected, the U.S. government was relatively stable. Yes, there had been a couple of shut downs, but they were short. This current shut down may last a long time.
Good. Since this appears to be the only way to get smaller federal government, even temporarily, I'll take it. Perhaps when the dust settles we'll have a slightly better idea of what we actually need the government to do.

Quote:
Its still a function that affects a large number of people (perhaps not on a daily basis, but will affect a significant number of the population within the year.)
Mostly it'll affect government employees.

Quote:
The shutdown means that many park rangers are furloughed. Now, there are plans for a skeleton staff to handle things like rescue and fire, but this can cause problems if there are multiple disasters or fires simultaneously. Which risks people's lives.
Don't conflate the two issues. Not having enough funding/staff to carry out basic emergency response is a serious issue that should be brought forward and discussed rationally and at length.

Separately: It is not the job of the federal government to employ people. It is not the concern of citizens to ensure that people have government jobs. These jobs arise as a necessary result of the government doing its job - whatever that job turns out to be.

So I am not much moved by the argument that the shutdown leaves people without jobs. We could triple the size of the government workforce overnight, simply by expanding the charters of government agencies and earmarking tax revenues to pay for the increased headcount. Jobs for everyone! But we don't do this, even though it could potentially eliminate unemployment altogether. We don't condemn the government for not adding nonessential jobs. We should not condemn the government for subtracting nonessential jobs.

Quote:
Keep in mind that "updating a web site" might include applying security patches. (I'm not sure if system security is considered an 'essential' function, but its likely that if they're furloughing people, system security might lapse.) This means that personal data may be at risk (e.g. if the IRS or similar gets targeted.)
Another serious issue that should be brought forward and discussed rationally and at length.


Quote:
Uhhh... if Congress sends a budget bill to Trump and he doesn't sign it, then it is the president that shuts down the government.
Good point. I withdraw my previous rebuttal. Trump owns this one.

Last edited by theprestige; 2nd January 2019 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:33 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
According to your link, employees would have expected a paycheck on December 28th.

Many people have substantial expenses that are due at the start of the month (e.g. Rent or mortgage payments). If they didn't receive the last paycheck on the 28th, then they would have had to pay those expenses out of their savings on January 1st.
And not all government employees are paid at the same time. There are different agencies, including those that are quasi-government-- not actual civil service, but in technically civilian companies that just happen to act like the civil service in some respects. They still get shut down during crap like this, though.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:33 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well then, your assumption is quite wrong. In fact, if you would bother to check the Location term that is posted just under my avatar and/or ask me yourself, then you could find out the facts.
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

The "location" term on your user profile is factually worthless.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:37 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And not all government employees are paid at the same time. There are different agencies, including those that are quasi-government-- not actual civil service, but in technically civilian companies that just happen to act like the civil service in some respects. They still get shut down during crap like this, though.
And you know what... I don't give a crap if I have zero bills due, a bazillion dollars in the savings... I sort think "Hey I'd like to get paid for the work I've already done" does not have to be defended like... at all.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:37 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This. Listen I go on about tribalism more than anyone and make no excuses for how often it annoys me but Congress does, no matter how even or uneven it is, manage to get stuff done from time to time.

Government should be slow. Change should be hard. We don't want the government, even if fully staffed nothing but perfect people operating on 100% good intentions, to act on a whim.
On this point, I agree.

I would go even one step further: On questions where the electorate and their representatives are deeply divided, it is vital that no one faction be given the tools to dismiss the controversy and force their answer on the nation.

Take the ACA, for example. It's a highly controversial policy that was forced through on by a bare majority. Without the support of a national consensus, is it any wonder that its future remains shaky even today?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:38 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Quote:
Take for example the national parks, or the museums that may get shut down. Most people don't spend 24/7 wandering around Yellowstone or visit the Smithsonian every day, but when it comes time for their yearly vacation they may want those things open
.

I can see the headlines now: "Government Shutdown: American Vacationers Hardest Hit".

This is undesirable, but not disastrous. If it's on your short list, then perhaps the problem isn't as bad as you think.
Ummm.. did you actually read any of the other posts I've made in this thread?

In an earlier post, I gave a list of ways in which the shutdown will harm many people, including things that can risk people's financial stability (e.g. IRS shutdown affects people's ability to apply for mortgages; social security staff may be unable to process updates to people's records) or even their health or lives (CDC and FDA are unable to fully investigate potential problems; skeleton staff cannot handle forest emergencies.)

Yes, by comparison the shutdown of museums or parks is a minor issue. I mentioned them because 1) it got a lot of press during the previous shutdown, and 2) its an obvious issue that would appear right away.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:40 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I would go even one step further: On questions where the electorate and their representatives are deeply divided, it is vital that no one faction be given the tools to dismiss the controversy and force their answer on the nation.
Well ideally an electorate and their representatives being deeply divided would be impossible and factions wouldn't be a thing.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:42 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

The "location" term on your user profile is factually worthless.
And all too often, people do not actually read the post that they are quoting which can serve to make their response factually worthless.

In your case, it would help if you would actually read my posting because I also stated that the poster in question could have simply asked me for clarification instead of making his incorrect assumption.

If it is a real issue, then I can provide a copy of my birth certificate that clearly shows just where and when I was born in the USA.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:42 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, by comparison the shutdown of museums or parks is a minor issue. I mentioned them because 1) it got a lot of press during the previous shutdown, and 2) its an obvious issue that would appear right away.
//Slight hijack//

I swear to God if they don't stop showing the picture of the sad widdle boy staring forlornly at the "Closed" sign on the National Zoo...

1. That was like 5 years and like 7 shutdowns ago, it's not even a recent pic.
2. The kid wasn't even trying to get into the zoo his Mother said.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Good. Since this appears to be the only way to get smaller federal government, even temporarily, I'll take it. Perhaps when the dust settles we'll have a slightly better idea of what we actually need the government to do.

Mostly it'll affect government employees.

Don't conflate the two issues. Not having enough funding/staff to carry out basic emergency response is a serious issue that should be brought forward and discussed rationally and at length.

Separately: It is not the job of the federal government to employ people. It is not the concern of citizens to ensure that people have government jobs. These jobs arise as a necessary result of the government doing its job - whatever that job turns out to be.

So I am not much moved by the argument that the shutdown leaves people without jobs. We could triple the size of the government workforce overnight, simply by expanding the charters of government agencies and earmarking tax revenues to pay for the increased headcount. Jobs for everyone! But we don't do this, even though it could potentially eliminate unemployment altogether. We don't condemn the government for not adding nonessential jobs. We should not condemn the government for subtracting nonessential jobs.


Another serious issue that should be brought forward and discussed rationally and at length.

Good point. I withdraw my previous rebuttal. Trump owns this one.
I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE A CLUE about how much the government does and does well.

This moronic idea that we need so called 'small government' in a nation of 350 million people is absurd. Government is not simply to create jobs. It's one thing to say we could be more efficient here or there, but this idea that government should be smaller for the sake of your sound bite is part of the insanity of the right.

People are going to suffer. The nation is going to suffer. This shock and awe attack on the government is actually an attack on the economy. As if Moron in Chief isn't screwing things up with his trade policies.

Reckless is what the government shutdown is . Which is the Trump way of governing. Toss out facts, numbers and science for the sake of stupidity. Reason, logic and rationality is supplanted by gut feelings. Trump is the king of ignorance. The Dunning Kruger President and his supporters are blind and superstitious.

.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:50 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If income has ceased, and still bills must be paid, the money has to come from somewhere.

If one has savings, one starts using that money. I'll make this part very, very simple for you, as it's quite tricky: if you have five apples and you take away one apple, you will be left with four apples. And four apples is fewer than five apples. If that trend continues, then you'll eventually run out of apples. Do you understand that? That taking away something from a pile of somethings means you have less of that thing?

Let me know which part of that is giving you difficulty. I realize higher maths are complex stuff, but given enough time even you can master them! I believe in you!
The government shutdown started on December 22, which happens to be the last daty of a GSA pay period. It's not clear to me if that means your relatives weren't paid for that pay period, or if they were paid for that period, but won't be paid for the period ending January 5. How much of their savings have they actually burned through in the past week and a half, to cover perhaps the shortfall of one biweekly pay period? You're painting a picture of a household that lives desperately from hand to mouth at the best of times. How much savings do they even have?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:59 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
According to your link, employees would have expected a paycheck on December 28th.

Many people have substantial expenses that are due at the start of the month (e.g. Rent or mortgage payments). If they didn't receive the last paycheck on the 28th, then they would have had to pay those expenses out of their savings on January 1st.
It depends on how they've organized their finances and cash flow, and on the underlying health of their financial arrangements.

There was a time, in my youth, where I worked low-paying jobs and indulged in piss-poor money management practices. Missing even a weekly paycheck put me in dire straits. I was doing mostly temp contracting at that time, and I wasn't even bothering to hedge against the entirely predictable end of a weekly contract. Stupid, stupid me. I'm slightly more responsible now, which is a huge relief.

Most financial planners recommend setting aside a few months' worth of funds, precisely to bridge over setbacks like this. It's barely been 12 days, and people are already freaking out about the degree of impoverishment this represents. That says as much about their own life choices as it does about the political shenanigans that caused the shutdown. This month's bills shouldn't really be linked to last week's paycheck.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:59 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Quote:
Up until Trump was elected, the U.S. government was relatively stable. Yes, there had been a couple of shut downs, but they were short. This current shut down may last a long time.
Good. Since this appears to be the only way to get smaller federal government, even temporarily, I'll take it.
Great. Other than the fact that its risking the financials stability (and indeed the lives) of millions of Americans. After all, what could go wrong?

Quote:
Perhaps when the dust settles we'll have a slightly better idea of what we actually need the government to do.
No, you won't. You really won't.

Now, if someone had an actual concrete proposal to remove non-critical government functions, it may be worth listening to. But risking people's lives and financial stability in an emotionally charged political debate is going to be counter productive.
Quote:
Mostly it'll affect government employees.
The fact that it has the ability to affect 1) disease control, 2) food inspections, 3) transportation, 4) the court system, 5) social security payments means that it will affect, well, pretty much everyone. Government employees are perhaps the most visible victims of the shutdown, but ultimately it affects everyone.

Quote:
Quote:
The shutdown means that many park rangers are furloughed. Now, there are plans for a skeleton staff to handle things like rescue and fire, but this can cause problems if there are multiple disasters or fires simultaneously. Which risks people's lives.
Don't conflate the two issues. Not having enough funding/staff to carry out basic emergency response is a serious issue that should be brought forward and discussed rationally and at length.
They had enough staff to handle problems. Now, its a crap shoot. Maybe things will be fine, maybe they won't.

Quote:
Separately: It is not the job of the federal government to employ people.
Never claimed it was. Its the job of the government to provide services where privately enterprise would not be effective. But haphazardly shutting down huge sections of the government (some of which can have a great impact to health and welfare) is not the optimal way to determine what services should be government provided, because at least some of the services DO have to be offered by the government.

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So I am not much moved by the argument that the shutdown leaves people without jobs. We could triple the size of the government workforce overnight, simply by expanding the charters of government agencies and earmarking tax revenues to pay for the increased headcount. Jobs for everyone!
Straw man argument. Nobody is claiming that the government is giving jobs to people just for the sake of providing employment. What people are saying is that those who have worked for the government (in some cases providing services that keep people healthy and wealthy) should be compensated for their efforts.
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Keep in mind that "updating a web site" might include applying security patches. (I'm not sure if system security is considered an 'essential' function, but its likely that if they're furloughing people, system security might lapse.) This means that personal data may be at risk (e.g. if the IRS or similar gets targeted.)
Another serious issue that should be brought forward and discussed rationally and at length
.
An emotionally-charged government shutdown caused by a president having a temper tantrum is not exactly the optimal time to discuss staffing levels rationally and at length.

And just out of curiosity, how exactly can you discuss such things rationally in that situation? After all, to make a rational decision you need data. You can't provide data because of the government shutdown.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:01 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The government shutdown started on December 22, which happens to be the last daty of a GSA pay period. It's not clear to me if that means your relatives weren't paid for that pay period, or if they were paid for that period, but won't be paid for the period ending January 5. How much of their savings have they actually burned through in the past week and a half, to cover perhaps the shortfall of one biweekly pay period? You're painting a picture of a household that lives desperately from hand to mouth at the best of times. How much savings do they even have?
The amount of savings and the rate at which they're going through it is irrelevant: it's outrageous that they should have to be using their savings at all because the government is "shut down". How do you not get that? Is it acceptable because it's not "bad enough" in your personal opinion? Well, I work in healthcare. To me, cancer is more serious than a broken leg, so when you break your leg and I leave you untreated for a few weeks I don't expect to hear any complaints, is that fair?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:03 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And not all government employees are paid at the same time. There are different agencies, including those that are quasi-government-- not actual civil service, but in technically civilian companies that just happen to act like the civil service in some respects. They still get shut down during crap like this, though.
I'm content to use the GSA payroll calendars as a general point of reference, in the absence of details about a specific situation. The conclusions we draw about your anecdote can only be as good as the information you provide.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:03 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
....I'll pass along how it's no big deal, per the poster above. I hope he finds himself without income for a while, so he can learn sympathy.
If this is directed at me then I never claimed the shutdown was no big deal. I've been furloughed in the past and it was a big deal to me and others who were dismissed from work.

I was only saying that the shutdown is not a complete one and some government entities are still funded.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm content to use the GSA payroll calendars as a general point of reference, in the absence of details about a specific situation. The conclusions we draw about your anecdote can only be as good as the information you provide.
This isn't your thread, and nobody need prove anything about their "anecdotes". The thread was clearly made to share personal experiences with the shut-down, not to validate your disgusting political agenda which apparently consists of "got mine, screw all others".
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
If this is directed at me then I never claimed the shutdown was no big deal.
No, it wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the poster who thinks this is a good opportunity to make insulting guesses about people because they dare not conform to his warped political views.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:08 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Good. Since this appears to be the only way to get smaller federal government, even temporarily, I'll take it. Perhaps when the dust settles we'll have a slightly better idea of what we actually need the government to do.
I am as sympathetic to the idea of small government as you are but you need to be aware that the end result is unlikely to be what you want.

Typically when governments are forced to make cutbacks, it is the front line service jobs that go. The cushy, overpaid, anonymous back office jobs that are given to cronies are well protected and will remain.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:09 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Quote:
According to your link, employees would have expected a paycheck on December 28th.

Many people have substantial expenses that are due at the start of the month (e.g. Rent or mortgage payments). If they didn't receive the last paycheck on the 28th, then they would have had to pay those expenses out of their savings on January 1st.
It depends on how they've organized their finances and cash flow, and on the underlying health of their financial arrangements.
That doesn't change the fact that if they were expecting a paycheck at the end of december that never came, then they are still eating into their savings.

Quote:
Most financial planners recommend setting aside a few months' worth of funds, precisely to bridge over setbacks like this. It's barely been 12 days, and people are already freaking out about the degree of impoverishment this represents.
Its not your place to dictate how people live their lives.

You have no idea of people's financial circumstances... maybe they had an unexpected emergency that has left them with limited funds. Maybe they have some expenses that need to get paid at the start of the year but after that they can build up their savings.

Even if they have several months' of savings to draw on, its not an ideal situation, since:
- they lose interest on any money that isn't sitting in their bank account
- they have no idea just how long the shutdown will last. So you're saying "its only a couple of weeks". Just how long before people should start to panic before they realize there is a major financial problem? a month? 2 months?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:09 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And you know what... I don't give a crap if I have zero bills due, a bazillion dollars in the savings... I sort think "Hey I'd like to get paid for the work I've already done" does not have to be defended like... at all.
It is a truth universally acknowleged, that everybody likes to get paid for work they've already done.

- Jane Austen, probably
It's crappy that the government can just simply not pay people, willy-nilly. We should probably have more safeguards for this sort of thing. And for sure if it goes on for more than a few weeks, it'll start being a serious hardship for a lot of people. However, contra TragicMonkey, I think that hardship will not be setting in just yet.

Yes, the government should pay its employees, and give them fair warning if it's not going to do that.

And yes, people who aren't okay with the government not doing this probably should consider finding another job.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:12 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, by comparison the shutdown of museums or parks is a minor issue. I mentioned them because 1) it got a lot of press during the previous shutdown
Ah, okay. That makes sense. Media hype counts for a lot on this forum, so I can understand your choice to go with it. Carry on.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:13 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
However, contra TragicMonkey, I think that hardship will not be setting in just yet.
You said you're without income, didn't you? Well, my savings are such that I can go several years without income. Which means if you're without income for only a year or two it's no hardship, right?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:15 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
If it is a real issue, then I can provide a copy of my birth certificate that clearly shows just where and when I was born in the USA.
Please don't take that path, Crossbow; I once saw a a US president try the same damn thing.

It didn't work for him, either.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:18 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Neither is anyone else. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I'll up my game the moment you up yours.

No, up yours.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:20 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I blame the Scorpion for stabbing the Toad. But the Scorpion kind of has a point.
Its more like someone put the Scorpion on the Toad's back without asking.

But hey! Standard issue GOP cruelty in action!
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:26 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Quote:
Yes, by comparison the shutdown of museums or parks is a minor issue. I mentioned them because 1) it got a lot of press during the previous shutdown
Ah, okay. That makes sense. Media hype counts for a lot on this forum, so I can understand your choice to go with it. Carry on.
First of all I noticed you missed the second part of that statement.... that in the case of a museum or park shutdown the effects are immediate an obvious.

Secondly, I hope you also recognize that I classified the shutdown of parks/museums as a minor issue, because the shutdown is also going to cause harm to the health and welfare of millions of taxpayers, and not just the government employees, but joe-average taxpayer, who will be risking his health because they don't have proper food and drug inspections. Or jane the retiree, who risks her social insurance payments because there aren't enough staff working to handle changes to her information.
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