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Old 13th April 2018, 07:34 PM   #2681
psionl0
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I was referring to advocates that hoped for a currency free of government. The same way I wonder how old maoists in China feel today.
If you mean anarcho-libertarians who believe that crypto currencies will take over the world then they seem to be scarce in this section.

There may have been a handful in the early days of these threads but most seem to have gotten themselves banned.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:56 PM   #2682
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you mean anarcho-libertarians who believe that crypto currencies will take over the world then they seem to be scarce in this section.

There may have been a handful in the early days of these threads but most seem to have gotten themselves banned.
I didn't mean here. I meant in the bitcoin community.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:36 PM   #2683
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't mean here. I meant in the bitcoin community.
Then you should post int the bitcoin community forums.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:40 PM   #2684
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Then you should post int the bitcoin community forums.
I'm not interested in their assessment of themselves. I'm interested in the assessment of them by people here.
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:32 PM   #2685
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This is like pulling teeth!

Why don't you say what you mean the first time instead of trying to drag it out over 10 posts!
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:27 AM   #2686
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Bitcoin now permitted by Sharia Law. Is this its "killer app"?

Islamic Scholar Says Bitcoin is Compliant With Sharia Law
Quote:
Muslims account for 23% of the worlds population, with 1.6 billion Muslims throughout the world, mostly in Asia Pacific nations like India and Indonesia. Sharia Law, or Islamic Canonical Law, prohibits the practice of lending money at high-interest rates, known as usury...

Bitcoin has been a difficult currency to quantify, acting as a commodity and a currency all at once. It does, however, fall under certain definitions of customary money in Sharia law anything that becomes widely accepted as currency by society or government mandate.

Mufti Muhammad Abu Bakar, a Sharia adviser and compliance officer at Blossom Finance in Jakarta, published a paper on whether Bitcoin is Halal (permitted) or Haram (forbidden) on Tuesday 10 April.

The paper essentially ruled that in certain cases, Bitcoin can indeed be Halal, permitted.
You see, Muslims eschew fiat currencies because all the banks are controlled by greedy Zionists. But Bitcoin is beyond the reach of the usurers' grubby hands, so Muslims are free to make (or lose) fortunes in it without getting offside with their god!

I predict that a lot of bitcoiners will suddenly change their minds about Sharia Law and decide that it's not so bad after all. With a potential 1.6 Billion* more suckers to prop up the cryptocurrency market, what's not to like?


*not the real number, but Bitcoin is immune to reality. Buy Bitcoin Now!
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Old 14th April 2018, 02:42 AM   #2687
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The South African tax authorities have said that bitcoin is not a currency but is an asset for tax purposes. Gains must be declared.

An asset has two properties. An inherent value and a price. It is the price that matters.
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:35 AM   #2688
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This is like pulling teeth!

Why don't you say what you mean the first time instead of trying to drag it out over 10 posts!
I thought I did. I thought by posting here that it was clear i wanted opinions here ther than somewhere else.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:26 AM   #2689
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
You see, Muslims eschew fiat currencies because all the banks are controlled by greedy Zionists.
That's about as informed as anything else you have posted on this thread.
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Old 15th April 2018, 06:17 AM   #2690
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I think my sympathies lie with the anarchists. So seeing prices like this, I don't know if it advances the dream. From what little I know, I would definitely have opposed the hard fork of Ethereum because that guy never stole from anyone. Code is law.
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Old 15th April 2018, 11:02 PM   #2691
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I think my sympathies lie with the anarchists. So seeing prices like this, I don't know if it advances the dream. From what little I know, I would definitely have opposed the hard fork of Ethereum because that guy never stole from anyone. Code is law.

Code may be law, but do not forget the "Golden Rule" which is "The Man with the most Gold makes the Rules."

Or should it be the Bitcoin Law. "The Man with the most Bitcoin makes the Code"?
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:01 AM   #2692
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I still don't see a world shattering rally. BTC peaked in December at $19,843 and now stands at $8,109. The crazy bubble appears to have burst, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the value of cryptos will decline all the way to zero. As I've pointed out: Dutch tulips still have some value, as do British railway companies and various other things that have been the pretext for speculative bubbles in the past.
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:46 AM   #2693
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
As I've pointed out: Dutch tulips still have some value, as do British railway companies and various other things that have been the pretext for speculative bubbles in the past. something totally unrelated to bitcoin had a price reversal centuries ago.
ftfy.
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Old 16th April 2018, 04:11 AM   #2694
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
ftfy.
Speculative manias have a lot in common. If you keep saying, the past has nothing to do with the present, you may manage to persuade simpletons that the junk you're peddling is the long-sought philosophers' stone, and you will relieve them of some of their loose cash, but if you take it seriously you will end up swindling yourself.

In fact speculative bubbles were new in the west in 1637, and in 1719-20, but they're not new now, and they follow a well established pattern, discernible in the records of economic history. In the pre-regulation USA, bubbles and ensuing panics happened about every ten years. See A Brief History of Panics and Their Periodical Occurrence in the United States http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7361
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:41 AM   #2695
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Speculative manias . . . . <blah> <blah> <blah> . . . .
ftfy.

This junk has been soundly refuted many times.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
In the pre-regulation USA, bubbles and ensuing panics happened about every ten years. See A Brief History of Panics and Their Periodical Occurrence in the United States http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7361
What does tariffs and credit crises have to do with bitcoin?
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Old 16th April 2018, 10:04 AM   #2696
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
ftfy.

This junk has been soundly refuted many times.
That's fortunate for you, because you don't seem to be able to "soundly refute" it. You merely write nonsense words.
Quote:
What does tariffs and credit crises have to do with bitcoin?
Credit has nothing to do with Bitcoin? What you're really hoping is that "Panics and Their Periodical Occurrence", as mentioned in the book I linked, have nothing to do with Bitcoin.
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Old 16th April 2018, 04:05 PM   #2697
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
. . . . you don't seem to be able to "sou ndly refute" it.
Of course I have. So soundly that you have never dared to admit that those posts even exist - let alone address them.

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Credit has nothing to do with Bitcoin?
Exactly. Bitcoin is not a tulip bulb nor a choo choo train nor a debt instrument (nor a tariff which you conveniently forgot that this book is about).

What you're really hoping is that "Panics and Their Periodical Occurrence", as mentioned in the book is addressing bitcoin.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:56 PM   #2698
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Will there also be Bitbills? What about Bitchecks?
Come to me; I can offer the cheapest bitbillcheckbits!
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Old 20th April 2018, 07:08 AM   #2699
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
8:53pm. I claim a victory at $8415.54.

I now predict a rally, using my algorithm. Ill come back to claim victory.


The rally has occurred, so I claim another victory for my algorithm. $8504 at 9:06am. Im at 100%.

The algorithm is showing continued growth...followed by decline...then more growth, decline, a rally, then a correction. I can never be wrong really. All I have to do is make a prediction and wait for the volatile price to make me right!


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Old 20th April 2018, 09:16 AM   #2700
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Of course I have. So soundly that you have never dared to admit that those posts even exist - let alone address them.


Exactly. Bitcoin is not a tulip bulb nor a choo choo train nor a debt instrument (nor a tariff which you conveniently forgot that this book is about).

What you're really hoping is that "Panics and Their Periodical Occurrence", as mentioned in the book is addressing bitcoin.
Since the linked edition dates IIRC from 1893, the hope that it is specifically referring to Bitcoin is not one that I entertain with any confidence.
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:25 AM   #2701
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The rally has occurred, so I claim another victory for my algorithm. $8504 at 9:06am. Im at 100%.

The algorithm is showing continued growth...followed by decline...then more growth, decline, a rally, then a correction. I can never be wrong really. All I have to do is make a prediction and wait for the volatile price to make me right!


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Well, you could be wrong, since the term "correction" has, I think, a technical meaning. You should stick to up and down.

Rally might also have a technical meaning, not sure.
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:58 AM   #2702
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Well, you could be wrong, since the term "correction" has, I think, a technical meaning. You should stick to up and down.

Rally might also have a technical meaning, not sure.
Assuming that these are indeed errors and given that xjx388's tongue is so firmly planted in their cheek that it is sticking out on the other side, xjx388 is still making more sense than many on this thread.
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Old 20th April 2018, 10:23 AM   #2703
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Well, you could be wrong, since the term "correction" has, I think, a technical meaning. You should stick to up and down.

Rally might also have a technical meaning, not sure.


Just more proof that I have no idea what Im talking about in this realm!

Yet my algorithm is fool-proof!


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Old 20th April 2018, 08:52 PM   #2704
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Of course I have. So soundly that you have never dared to admit that those posts even exist - let alone address them.


Exactly. Bitcoin is not a tulip bulb nor a choo choo train nor a debt instrument (nor a tariff which you conveniently forgot that this book is about).

What you're really hoping is that "Panics and Their Periodical Occurrence", as mentioned in the book is addressing bitcoin.
For those that skipped a bunch of pages in the middle, what do you mean by not a tulip bulbs? Obviously it isn't literally a tulip bulbs. But what is your key point that separates it from that mania?
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:59 PM   #2705
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Just more proof that I have no idea what Im talking about in this realm!

Yet my algorithm is fool-proof!


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My algorithm is riding the bull to glory! I'll never doubt it again... TA for the win!
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Old 20th April 2018, 10:15 PM   #2706
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Well, you could be wrong, since the term "correction" has, I think, a technical meaning. You should stick to up and down.

Rally might also have a technical meaning, not sure.
A rally is a bout of strong buying, occurring after an (over)extended decline, resulting in a return to an efficient market ...supposedly. A correction is the exact opposite. Essentially, it's the shedding of excessive panic and greed from price discovery. Supposedly. So I guess you're right, XJX is using the term incorrectly, from a technical pov. He'd be calling for an extension of the rally.
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Old 20th April 2018, 10:30 PM   #2707
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
For those that skipped a bunch of pages in the middle, what do you mean by not a tulip bulbs? Obviously it isn't literally a tulip bulbs. But what is your key point that separates it from that mania?
I have been over this many times. There are a lot of differences between bitcoin and tulip bulbs but I will only mention one: The tulip mania only lasted one year and never recurred while bitcoin has gone through many price cycles in its 10 year history and there are no signs of it ending.
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Old 21st April 2018, 01:17 AM   #2708
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One risk of holding Bitcoin is the potential loss due to software flaws. See Old JavaScript Crypto Flaw Puts Bitcoin Funds at Risk.
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Old 21st April 2018, 03:25 AM   #2709
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
One risk of holding Bitcoin is the potential loss due to software flaws. See Old JavaScript Crypto Flaw Puts Bitcoin Funds at Risk.
Statements such as "less than 48 bits of entropy", "more predictable than it should be" or "may guess the account's private key" are pretty vague. It doesn't tell us how vulnerable the old addresses are.

Still, the advice given at the end of the article is good advice:
Quote:
Bitcoin users who generated Bitcoin addresses using affected tools are advised to generate new Bitcoin addresses with a new tool and move funds from old accounts to the new ones.
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Old 21st April 2018, 02:59 PM   #2710
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have been over this many times. There are a lot of differences between bitcoin and tulip bulbs but I will only mention one: The tulip mania only lasted one year and never recurred while bitcoin has gone through many price cycles in its 10 year history and there are no signs of it ending.
Cool.thank you for the catch up.
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Old 21st April 2018, 05:49 PM   #2711
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Interesting case. My nephew remembered he bought a bitcoin years ago, found it somehow, and bought a car. Pretty well my only direct evidence that bitcoin is any use.
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Old 21st April 2018, 10:31 PM   #2712
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Last post on 3 April was:
If I sold it all today I would get 100 x $7334 = $733,400.
I had $0 and 100 bitcoin as my start.
Now I have $146,680 and 80 bitcoin.

13 April
Price now 7812. Time to sell the peak.

Let me sell 40 bitcoin.
Now I have $459,160 and 40 bitcoin = Current worth $771,640
22 April
Price now 8853.
Another little peak. Let me sell 20 bitcoin.
Now I have $636,220 and 20 bitcoin = Current worth $813,280
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Old 23rd April 2018, 06:52 AM   #2713
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
22 April
Price now 8853.
Another little peak. Let me sell 20 bitcoin.
Now I have $636,220 and 20 bitcoin = Current worth $813,280
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Old 23rd April 2018, 01:30 PM   #2714
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
22 April

Price now 8853.

Another little peak. Let me sell 20 bitcoin.

Now I have $636,220 and 20 bitcoin = Current worth $813,280


Do you actually have this or is this a thought experiment? In any case, you are leaving out fees, which can be quite substantial for such large transfers. The miners charge fees and so do the exchanges. Bitcoin speculation, such as you are modeling here, is too expensive. If you bought your bitcoin at the recent low point, lets say 6500, it would have cost you 650000 plus fees to buy that bitcoin. Add in trading fees and Your profit is substantially lower.

I got lucky as I bought my bitcoin super low and sold when super high. I paid through the nose to convert to USD.


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Old 23rd April 2018, 10:28 PM   #2715
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If you see my first post on this you will see that I proposed we all play a game. Start with 100 bitcoin and see if one can improve on just selling all of them outright.

Darned if the price does not keep rising. I will have to be more sure of a peak which means selling just after it has a definite drop.

So far I am making "money" on a rising market.

You are right about fees and other expenses.
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Old 24th April 2018, 07:18 AM   #2716
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have been over this many times. There are a lot of differences between bitcoin and tulip bulbs but I will only mention one: The tulip mania only lasted one year and never recurred while bitcoin has gone through many price cycles in its 10 year history and there are no signs of it ending.
I understand that you don't see it as a mania or a fad. What do you see it as? What is the end game here?
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Old 24th April 2018, 12:26 PM   #2717
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So, any plans for people to use these bitcoins for anything other than buying drugs, hiring hitmen, or paying off ransomware attackers? Does Amazon, say, have any plans to accept it as currency?
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Old 24th April 2018, 10:14 PM   #2718
psionl0
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I understand that you don't see it as a mania or a fad. What do you see it as? What is the end game here?
I don't know that there is an end game.

I suspect that crypto-currencies in one form or another are here to stay. They obviously can't replace conventional currencies but they will probably complement them to some extent. (Bitcoin itself probably won't be used as an everyday currency because of its built in spending disincentives).

What is more interesting is the blockchain. It has far more potential uses than just ledger entries. Electronic voting and smart contracts are 2 possible applications. Since blockchain entries are immutable they are much more reliable than paper records.

If nameless electronic wallets were permissible then blockchain technology could be used for fiat currencies as well as crypto-currencies (yes, I know, politicians and bankers are having an apoplexy at the mere thought).
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Old 25th April 2018, 03:58 AM   #2719
Samson
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I don't know that there is an end game.

I suspect that crypto-currencies in one form or another are here to stay. They obviously can't replace conventional currencies but they will probably complement them to some extent. (Bitcoin itself probably won't be used as an everyday currency because of its built in spending disincentives).

What is more interesting is the blockchain. It has far more potential uses than just ledger entries. Electronic voting and smart contracts are 2 possible applications. Since blockchain entries are immutable they are much more reliable than paper records.

If nameless electronic wallets were permissible then blockchain technology could be used for fiat currencies as well as crypto-currencies (yes, I know, politicians and bankers are having an apoplexy at the mere thought).
Clearly blockchain is like railways and internet, don't own them, use them.
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Old 25th April 2018, 04:23 AM   #2720
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Paypal guy might have lanced the boil. Bitcoin down 7% since.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=12039408
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