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Tags Cold War history , Robert Oppenheimer

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Old 29th December 2017, 09:19 PM   #1
Mondial
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Robert Oppenheimer:Was the Manhattan Project Scientist A Traitor ?

Nuclear physicist Robert Oppenheimer has been accused of treachery to the USA by betraying atom bomb secrets to the Soviet Union. His supporters deny this. An article by John Wear which examines the claims against Oppenheimer -
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/...aying-america/
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:24 PM   #2
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So someone's blog? I did not click on it, this thread seems a bit far-fetched.
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So someone's blog? I did not click on it, this thread seems a bit far-fetched.
Why? Oppenheimer did have his security clearance revoked.
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Why? Oppenheimer did have his security clearance revoked.
Who give a **** about this at this point in time?
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:33 PM   #5
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The author of the blog appears to have written the article with the intention of arriving at a conclusion of yes. He cites valid references, but draws conclusions that aren’t quite aligned with the evidence he cites.

Oppenheimer was a bit of an ******** as a person, but also a brilliant physicist and scientist in general. His trouble with boundaries and implications of personal actions was a recurring thread in his life right on through the Red Scare era and after
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:13 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who give a **** about this at this point in time?
You cared enough to reply to the thread.

I read it because Oppenheimer has been called the greatest American chemist ever (he had dual PhDs), so it's a professional interest.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:44 AM   #7
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http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2015/...dacted-part-i/
http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2015/...acted-part-ii/

Here's a writeup on the "lost transcripts" of Oppenheimer's security hearings about the allegations by Alex Wellerstein, my go-to source for most matters concerning nuclear history.

Other posts of interest:
http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2015/...f-oppenheimer/ - The Doubts of Oppenheimer
http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/...enheimer-gita/ - Oppenheimer and the Bhagavad-Gita (context for the famous "Now, I am become death..." quote)
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Why? Oppenheimer did have his security clearance revoked.
By a kangaroo court in the paranoid fifties.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:54 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
By a kangaroo court in the paranoid fifties.
From what I read on the links above, there were a few elements:

1. Oppenheimer had been approached with a request to leak information to the Russians, allegedly and by all appearances refusing to do this in no uncertain terms.
2. He made the mistake of reporting this while at the same time hiding the identity of the person who came to him, feeling that he was innocent. He made some stupid excuses for this that came to be held against him in the "character court".
3. He was more in favour of smaller, tactical fission bombs than thermonuclear bomb (yes, Oppenheimer was a hawk), which caused conflict with the team and military and plenty of animosity in the testimonies against him.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:29 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
From what I read on the links above, there were a few elements:

1. Oppenheimer had been approached with a request to leak information to the Russians, allegedly and by all appearances refusing to do this in no uncertain terms.
2. He made the mistake of reporting this while at the same time hiding the identity of the person who came to him, feeling that he was innocent. He made some stupid excuses for this that came to be held against him in the "character court".
3. He was more in favour of smaller, tactical fission bombs than thermonuclear bomb (yes, Oppenheimer was a hawk), which caused conflict with the team and military and plenty of animosity in the testimonies against him.
The full record is that he was approached by a communist buddy who said he had ways of getting information to the Soviets. It's not clear but apparently Oppenheimer reported it but not for something like six to eight months. I hadn't heard the bit about him refusing to name names because the name was known by the time the hearings came along.

There was more than the anti-commie McCarthy era paranoia, true. He made enemies in the Pentagon and administration because he was against thermonuclear weapons as he saw them almost solely as being used against civilian populations. He'd also pissed off a couple of bureaucrats in the AEC of the time.

I think, ironically, his contract was up a month later and he would've given up his security clearance, anyway. (It should be noted that he also had support from at least one general - the entire military were evidently not paranoid frothing lunatics.)
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So someone's blog? I did not click on it, this thread seems a bit far-fetched.
...a fan boys blog too

Quote:
Germany’s War by John Wear refutes this characterization of Germany, bringing history into accord with the facts. Germany’s War documents that the Allied leaders of the Soviet Union, Great Britain and the United States were primarily responsible for starting and prolonging World War II-costing million of lives. Far from being the conqueror of Europe, Adolf Hitler saved it from Stalin.
Plus all the usual stuff against the holocaust

Last edited by Hans; 1st January 2018 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
...a fan boys blog too



Plus all the usual stuff against the holocaust
So much for objectivity from that source.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
You cared enough to reply to the thread.

I read it because Oppenheimer has been called the greatest American chemist ever (he had dual PhDs), so it's a professional interest.
I am a chemist, and I have never heard anyone ever refer to Oppenheimer as a great chemist, much less "the greatest American chemist ever."

Then again, I don't hang around with a lot of nuclear chemists. I might buy Oppenheimer as the greatest nuclear chemist of all time, but that's a narrow field.

As a chemist, he was a great physicist.

For my money, Kistiakovski was among the greatest chemists on the Manhattan Project, although there were a lot of great ones involved. Kisty knew his explosives.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I am a chemist, and I have never heard anyone ever refer to Oppenheimer as a great chemist, much less "the greatest American chemist ever."[...]
That doesn't contradict what I said.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:42 PM   #15
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Sure you didn't mean Pauling as the greatest chemist ever? In his collaboration with Oppenheimer he pretty much covered the chemistry.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Sure you didn't mean Pauling as the greatest chemist ever? In his collaboration with Oppenheimer he pretty much covered the chemistry.
I didn't say Oppenheimer was the best American chemist. I said he had been called that. Specifically, by the chairman of my chemistry department. We didn't get a chance to ask him why he thought that.

The consensus in my chemistry department was that Pauling was brilliant, but went over the line with regards to vitamin c.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:40 PM   #17
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I'm amused that in a thread about Manhattan Project scientists, vitamin C is what crosses the line.
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Old 4th January 2018, 02:40 PM   #18
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Oppie also angered Teller by speaking against the h-bomb. That aroused Teller's anti-communist paranoia, (earned and cemented by the Soviet takeover of Hungary,) and Teller's mostly unfounded but strongly worded concerns at Oppie's hearing damned him.
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Old 4th January 2018, 10:42 PM   #19
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It seems that Oppenheimer changed his mind and supported the H-bomb after he came to believe that the Soviets were working on one.
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Old 7th January 2018, 06:41 AM   #20
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Mondial - continually proving Betteridge's law.
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Old 7th January 2018, 11:07 PM   #21
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Yep, guys, I think all we need to know is...

Robert Oppenheimer was a Jew.
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
Therefore Hitler was right.

Nazi Logic 101.
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Old 24th January 2018, 04:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yep, guys, I think all we need to know is...

Robert Oppenheimer was a Jew.
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah blah
Therefore Hitler was right.

Nazi Logic 101.
That sums it up quite nicely.
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Old 20th April 2018, 02:22 PM   #23
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Oppenheimer betrayed America out of ideological conviction in other words his support for Soviet communism and Stalin. He didn't do it for the money.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/...aying-america/

One traitor to the USA who did do it for the money was Congressman Samuel Dickstein. His Soviet handlers gave him the code name "Crook" -
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10738
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Old 20th April 2018, 02:42 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
Oppenheimer betrayed America out of ideological conviction in other words his support for Soviet communism and Stalin. He didn't do it for the money.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/...aying-america/

One traitor to the USA who did do it for the money was Congressman Samuel Dickstein. His Soviet handlers gave him the code name "Crook" -
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10738
Want me to trot out a number of Americans who betrayed for their country for Nazi Germany?
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Old 20th April 2018, 03:14 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
Oppenheimer betrayed America out of ideological conviction in other words his support for Soviet communism and Stalin. He didn't do it for the money.
https://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/...aying-america/

One traitor to the USA who did do it for the money was Congressman Samuel Dickstein. His Soviet handlers gave him the code name "Crook" -
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10738
Your first link is the same link from December 2017. Oppenheimer was not a Soviet Agent.

Samual Dickstein? Cute. Is he related to Dick Bonerstein?

Your second link just quotes conservapedia. Never rely on conservapedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel...n_(congressman)

Just for fun:

https://wearswarts.wordpress.com/
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