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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:39 AM   #2481
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That has zero impact on what I posted.

I don't care whether a minority of idiots understand reality or not. That's not why I posted what I did.

Horatious said: "Because far too many stupid people have decided it's too hard to keep up the social distancing, ..."

That's what I answered, we don't need social distancing we need everyone to wear masks.

The rest of what he said I get. Trump encourages them, They're all ******* idiots. We could have that discussion ad nauseum.

I don't give a **** about them. I want to focus on the masks.

If the residents of the favelas in Brazil wore simple cloth masks they wouldn't be burying thousands of people. They don't need hand sanitizer, or running water. Those things would help, but the masks alone, inexpensive, easily implemented, that's what we should be talking about.

OK yeah, we can't get around discussing the idiots. But let's put that in the background. If everyone in the ******* world put on masks, transmission would go down to R-naught. That's a simple measure, a simple message.
People not wearing masks is a symptom of the underlying problem. Which is that this issue needs to be taken seriously and a whole host of behavioral changes have to happen. It requires each person having enough concern for themselves and others to apply with strict self-discipline.

That isn't happening. They don't respect the danger.

You can hand out all the masks you want, it doesn't fix the problem. People won't wear them.

We know all the guidance. We've seen endless lists of rules for minimizing risk. I'm fairly certain there's only a few around here who either don't get How Things Work™ or find some value in maintaining a pretense of it. I doubt anyone objects to your enthusiasm about how effective wearing masks is in the abstract.

I don't disagree with their utility. I'm all for as many masks for anyone who wants one. Yay.

But that's not really the variable limiting the usage of them, is it? Talking about the masks is just talking about the problem. Talking about the dangerously maladjusted behaviors being seen is talking about the solution.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 23rd May 2020 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:31 AM   #2482
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
People not wearing masks is a symptom of the underlying problem. Which is that this issue needs to be taken seriously and a whole host of behavioral changes have to happen. It requires each person having enough concern for themselves and others to apply with strict self-discipline.

That isn't happening. They don't respect the danger.

You can hand out all the masks you want, it doesn't fix the problem. People won't wear them.

We know all the guidance. We've seen endless lists of rules for minimizing risk. I'm fairly certain there's only a few around here who either don't get How Things Work™ or find some value in maintaining a pretense of it. I doubt anyone objects to your enthusiasm about how effective wearing masks is in the abstract.

I don't disagree with their utility. I'm all for as many masks for anyone who wants one. Yay.

But that's not really the variable limiting the usage of them, is it? Talking about the masks is just talking about the problem. Talking about the dangerously maladjusted behaviors being seen is talking about the solution.
I'm not really sure this is true. I have yet to see a place where they are handing out masks.

If they are readily available, I'm convinced most people will. Do you really want to be the one person without a mask surrounded by others wearing them.

I like that a lot of people are getting creative with masks.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:43 AM   #2483
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Moron at a Republican rally. Take off your masks!
She's the county chair.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:21 AM   #2484
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Moron at a Republican rally. Take off your masks!
She's the county chair.
Unbelievable, the coronavirus is a hoax. The woman is GOP chair in Bexar County Texas, a county of two million people located just north of San Antonio. This is how a local news source reports it.
Quote:
Just when it appears Bexar County Republican Chairwoman Cynthia Brehm can't crawl any further down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, she manages to burrow deeper. "Why is this happening today? And I'll tell you why: all of this has been promulgated by the Democrats to undo all the good President Trump has done for our country — and they are worried," Brehm says in video shot at the rally. "So, take off your masks, exercise your constitutional rights. Stand up, speak up and vote Republican." San Antonio Current
One of the other speakers, a local Republican Party official and a judge, said, "Your chances of catching Wuhan Flu are 0.05%. How do I know that? I was a data analyst for twenty years." But the Google tracking site shows Bexar County has 2,322 cases. With a population of 2,004,000 my calculator says that's 0.1%
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File Type: jpg Bexar County don't need no stinkin masks.jpg (49.8 KB, 5 views)

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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:24 AM   #2485
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Moron at a Republican rally. Take off your masks!
She's the county chair.
From that twitter thread:

Maggie
@bellamoss77

I really can’t wrap my head around how they think killing their voter base when they’ve already so thoroughly disgusted everyone else past the point of no return is an effective campaign strategy.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:01 AM   #2486
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Originally Posted by jenspen View Post
I follow your posts with interest and appreciation and I don't want to contradict you or disagree.

But, if it's relevant to your understanding of the spread here in Australia, you may not be aware that ours is notoriously one of the most urbanised countries in the world with 89% of our population living in a handful of urban areas. (Wikipedia).

Last night, however, I heard Norman Swan of the Health Report on the ABC say that on close-packed public transport and in cinemas, in crowds at sporting events and such (when they are re-opened) people should definitely wear masks.

Barbara
Thanks for the interest.

I am really pleased to hear they are recommending masks in Australia.

I know Australia has big cities. I've been there. But there are significant open spaces between cities. Do many people in Melbourne drive up to Sydney for an hour?

Have you been to the US? Large cities don't have edges. They just bleed out to the next city. My point being it really is easier to control this pandemic in Australia because of the population spread and both New Zealand and Australia are islands. That helps too.

But I don't want to annoy people talking about non-USA issues in this thread. My point was we could be setting an example for the world if people would just let go of the misinformation the Trump-ruled CDC started out with:
A shortage of PPE, no worries, just tell the public they don't need masks so they don't horde them. Don't investigate the matter. You might find out non-medical cloth face masks are readily available. Nope, just send out the short-sighted message masks don't protect people. You can always fix the misinformation later.
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Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:03 AM   #2487
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
From that twitter thread:

Maggie
@bellamoss77

I really can’t wrap my head around how they think killing their voter base when they’ve already so thoroughly disgusted everyone else past the point of no return is an effective campaign strategy.
New York Guy's calculator says that her county has an infection rate of 0.1%. That's the infection rate, not the death rate.

For an awful lot of people, 0.1% is interchangeable with "impossible".

It sure as heck isn't "killing their voter base".

For my part, I still don't like the odds. I know that the 0.1% will grow. I know that it has been kept low precisely because we have been staying home and, now, wearing masks when we are out. I know all this, but at the same time I can recognize that until people see the effects for real, they will not believe it. At an infection rate of 0.1%, it's likely that the coronavirus has not impacted their lives on a personal level, but the government imposed restrictions have.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:11 AM   #2488
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The Washington Post page has really good charts (and is not paywalled). It shows the seven day average, which is easier to interpret than the bar graph. The seven day average of new cases in Texas is considerably higher today than the day they opened (about 1200 cases per day now vs. roughly 800 on the day they opened).

Georgia looks like the average is somewhat lower today than the day they opened.

I don't see an easy way to paste the image, sorry.
That's a great source. Thanks.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:12 AM   #2489
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
From that twitter thread:

Maggie
@bellamoss77

I really can’t wrap my head around how they think killing their voter base when they’ve already so thoroughly disgusted everyone else past the point of no return is an effective campaign strategy.
I suspect that they figure even if they kill off a percentage of their voter base, the ones not killed will be raging with survivor syndrome. Kill off one percent of them, and a majority will say, "see, it didn't kill me, so it's a hoax."
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:19 AM   #2490
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
This is what I'm wondering about. Here in Michigan, we're opening up a little, more slowly than others. My wife and I were talking about how with Memorial Day weekend here, an awful lot of people here, and even more in other states with more loosened restrictions, will say, "I don't care. We're goy leing to the barbecue."

Then, wait a week and see what happens. Will the cases go back to their previous counts?

I'm perfectly willing to be the control group for that experiment. We will stay to ourselves, and see what happens with slightly less restrictions here, and a lot less restrictions in Texas. If things get really bad, we'll be locked down again.

I would love it if everything turned out to be way overhyped, but I'm not optimistic. Texas passed us in case count today, and their daily case count seems very high.

Yes. The Governor of Texas and his Various Strike Forces have proven to be idiots. I had to go get some groceries today and I decided to just go back home once I saw the crowds at the store and the ridiculous traffic in the streets. It’s worse than normal!

I know restrictions were just relaxed in a major way (bars can be open at 25% capacity,restaurants now at 50%, etc) and people are going crazy. But there was no basis to open up so much given our case counts. My county had done the right thing, had low case/death counts, and now it’s all going to be for nothing.

If I want to protect myself and my family, I have to look like a weirdo hermit. And that’s ok, I’ll do it. It’s just so ridiculous....
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:30 AM   #2491
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not really sure this is true. I have yet to see a place where they are handing out masks.



If they are readily available, I'm convinced most people will. Do you really want to be the one person without a mask surrounded by others wearing them.



I like that a lot of people are getting creative with masks.
I find different stores and different parts of town have different behavior models.

Surgical masks are in decent supply across the region.

Quicktrip is our high end gas station brand with a mobile/counter order kitchen and everything. In the suburbs, I am the only one wearing a mask in the last dozen visits (one exception, a guy pumping gas who never came inside). Midtown by where I work, 50/50. This is where the death toll is heavily represented.

The independent gas station that has self-serve coffee brewing at odd hours of the night, it's half masks, half something cloth wrapped around the lower face, and one drunk a-hole not caring.

ALDI seems like people get it. High-end grocers, same results as above for the gas stations. I hear more positive views of the senior hours, but I've seen almost no adherence to moderate at best. My last trip to ALDI, however, I saw a couple of unmasked individuals, one gaggle of 3, and all 5 of them headed straight to the meats (depleted a bit) and picked through it in a seemingly disappointed fashion.

I'm thinking they weren't regulars. One of the individuals seemed confused by the line. Then, when directed where to line up, went backwards through the line inside the barrier. Without a mask.

Disrespect for the danger, disrespect for our being responsible for impact on each other. Those are our biggest problems in terms of COVID.

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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:31 AM   #2492
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh for pity's sake! Of course taking the burden off the health care system is of critical importance.

But tests are showing something between 4 and 15% give or take of the population in the US having been infected. How do you suggest this herd immunity pre-vaccine be accomplished? Using the generous goal of 60% of the population needing immunity, do you even understand what you are saying?
I suspect Shalamar does. That's why Shalamar said pre-vaccine herd immunity wasn't possible. Specifically, Shalamar said herd immunity was not going to happen until there was a vaccine. It's not unclear.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:34 AM   #2493
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The problem with crowding is, especially if you have people not wearing face masks, studies indicate at least 20% of those infected are asymptomatic and don't know they're contagious. Some studies put the number even higher. This is one of the reasons public health officials stress social distancing (in addition to wearing face masks).

It looks like my job is going to reopen up next week. In a way I'm looking forward to it but I do have some anxiety. New York looks pretty good though.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:44 AM   #2494
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
How does Trump explain Australia?


https://www.theage.com.au/national/b...21-p54v72.html
That angers me. Colorado's mountain towns were infected early and hard by an Australian woman on holiday, and he blames the US for Australian tourists getting infected? Not the skiers who went to Austria where a large proportion of Europe caught it, and then went to other ski locations and spread it?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:51 AM   #2495
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I suspect that they figure even if they kill off a percentage of their voter base, the ones not killed will be raging with survivor syndrome. Kill off one percent of them, and a majority will say, "see, it didn't kill me, so it's a hoax."
I rarely post outside the SMM&T board, but one thing caught my attention (I've seen it, in one form or another, in several mainstream articles, and in data form in FiveThirtyEight): of the various demographic groups, it seems there's some solid evidence that Trump, and the Republicans (in general), are losing support among the 65+ cohort.

AFAIK, this is a group with a consistently high voting record (as a %-age: did-vote/eligible-to-vote), and are pretty solidly conservative.

Naively, given how much harder covid-19 strikes these folks, you'd expect they'd be turned off by Trump's abject failure of leadership. Of course, not worthy of a second thought, by the Trump team, for oldies in CA, NY, or WA, say (their Electoral College votes were never likely to change anyway).

But does this mean that Michigan and Pennsylvania, in particular (narrowly won by Trump in 2016), where there are a lot of covid-19 deaths, will turn blue in November? Similarly, perhaps Florida, Arizona, and North Carolina?

I wonder what the grey-hairs in Wisconsin think and feel ...
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:48 PM   #2496
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
You can hand out all the masks you want, it doesn't fix the problem. People won't wear them.
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not really sure this is true. I have yet to see a place where they are handing out masks.
To poke at these... It depends. At work, currently, masks are mandatory, each person has been provided with a cloth mask and they hand one disposable mask out to the people who don't have a mask each day on entry. They are being worn... with a caveat. Much of the time, they're being worn correctly. I see the practice of chinmasking constantly, though, where the mask only covers the chin, not the mouth or nose. Frequently enough, some people chinmask specifically when they feel like talking to others at a close distance, for that matter.

I do not do so, but it very much feels like I'm an exception, much of the time.

Ahh, and to weigh in on another matter that has stirred up a little controversy, it does tend to take much less to feel out of breath when wearing those cloth masks when performing slightly strenuous or worse physical labor, which has led to notably less proper use as well.

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
From that twitter thread:

Maggie
@bellamoss77

I really can’t wrap my head around how they think killing their voter base when they’ve already so thoroughly disgusted everyone else past the point of no return is an effective campaign strategy.
It's obviously not about that, of course. It's about propping up the mythology that they've built for so long. Strong, independent, and so much tougher than those weak cowardly democrats who aren't willing to make hard choices.

Without that mythology being ever reinforced so there's no time or desire to question it, they know that they'll lose.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:17 PM   #2497
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Hong Kong has done so well because everyone wears face masks despite the fact social distancing is impossible. SG knows this because she has 'a friend' who lives in Hong Kong. Was I suggesting wearing a face mask has no effect? No, of course not. I was suggesting, based on what I've read, that Hong Kong seems to have had a very small influx of coronavirus. Nothing like the massive waves of infections other countries have had to deal with. To say it was all contained by people wearing face masks is one possibility and probably an important one. But Hong Kong also had a very strong response and very early. Below is a quote from a news story on CNN:

It was stated above that if Hong Kong could control the virus, keep it to very low levels, any country should have been able to do it. That may be true. (Of course at this point, it's also irrelevant.) It is also possible there were other factors at work besides wearing a face mask. The CNN reporting makes it pretty clear there were.
From your quote: "Hong Kong closed borders and began social distancing just a week or so after recording its first case."

Well they didn't begin social distancing because, as I pointed out, they can't. They did lock down early. So did the mainland (Hong Kong is part of China and HK is not an island.) They did try to limit travel from the mainland, but my friend said one road remained open.

Notice the date this all occurred, late Jan. The virus was already circulating widely by that time, in China and in many other countries including the US and the EU.

So I'm not sure what (if anything?) you are trying to downplay here. They learned from their experience with SARS. My friend told me they give people not wearing masks the evil eye. (She used different words)

Japan has control of COVID 19 as well and they also have almost universal mask wearing.

Originally Posted by NYG
Nothing like the massive waves of infections other countries have had to deal with. To say it was all contained by people wearing face masks is one possibility and probably an important one.
Granted NY was hopelessly infected before realizing it. They had a lot of work to do.

But I posted information on the drastic effect masks have on decreasing the spread upthread. It's a long thread, I have missed pages when it was moving fast. Should I repost it?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:22 PM   #2498
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post

>snip<
It's obviously not about that, of course. It's about propping up the mythology that they've built for so long. Strong, independent, and so much tougher than those weak cowardly democrats who aren't willing to make hard choices.

Without that mythology being ever reinforced so there's no time or desire to question it, they know that they'll lose.
These are the same people who have flags on their cars/trucks, houses, wave them every chance they get, and wear flag motif clothing (which, personally, I find more disrespectful than taking a knee). They think their display of uber nationalism somehow proves how patriotic they are. They wrap themselves in the flag, sometimes literally, and nationalism as if it proves they love America more. Europeans don't understand this obsession with displaying the flag and find it rather odd. To me, it's nothing more than a childish display of "We're #1!" and I find it embarrassing.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:43 PM   #2499
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
These are the same people who have flags on their cars/trucks, houses, wave them every chance they get, and wear flag motif clothing (which, personally, I find more disrespectful than taking a knee). They think their display of uber nationalism somehow proves how patriotic they are. They wrap themselves in the flag, sometimes literally, and nationalism as if it proves they love America more. Europeans don't understand this obsession with displaying the flag and find it rather odd. To me, it's nothing more than a childish display of "We're #1!" and I find it embarrassing.

“...the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:53 PM   #2500
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
“...the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
With this president, that's more true than ever.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:33 PM   #2501
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Moron at a Republican rally. Take off your masks!
She's the county chair.
There's like 3 people clapping.


Well, I've been avoiding asking my brother if he was still going to vote for Trump. This is the brother who wouldn't vote for Obama because Obama was a socialist

His wife retweeted a meme today: "If we all started wearing masks with Trump 2020, how long before experts decided we don't need them anymore?"

Sigh.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:56 PM   #2502
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
New York Guy's calculator says that her county has an infection rate of 0.1%. That's the infection rate, not the death rate.

For an awful lot of people, 0.1% is interchangeable with "impossible".

It sure as heck isn't "killing their voter base".

For my part, I still don't like the odds. I know that the 0.1% will grow. I know that it has been kept low precisely because we have been staying home and, now, wearing masks when we are out. I know all this, but at the same time I can recognize that until people see the effects for real, they will not believe it. At an infection rate of 0.1%, it's likely that the coronavirus has not impacted their lives on a personal level, but the government imposed restrictions have.
And the deaths are being undercounted, cases are not being tested, ergo the numbers are fewer.


Re Georgia opening up:

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Apr 17: Undercount of COVID-19 deaths means full effects on Georgia unknown
Quote:
Officials acknowledged Friday that, until this week, they had counted only deaths in which COVID-19 diagnoses were confirmed by laboratory tests. By omitting symptomatic people who died before they could be tested, the state has fought the virus without a true picture of its impact. ...

The missed deaths reflect the lack of robust testing in Georgia, which has lagged behind almost every other state in tests per capita. In the absence of tests, little coordinated effort went into determining the cause of death of people whose coronavirus diagnoses had not been confirmed. ...

But some hospitals have chosen not to dip into their limited supply of test kits to take specimens from deceased patients.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, dashboard, May 22
Quote:
The dashboard reflects the day the state reported confirmed cases, tests and deaths. This means that the new confirmed cases could be reported a day or more after the test results came back, several days after the test was taken, and a week or more after the patient was infected. So new confirmed cases reflect the spread of actual infections from a week or more ago. ...

Q: Does today’s case data show how the virus is spreading right now in Georgia?

A: No.
Epidemiologists agree that today's counts are a snapshot of what the virus did roughly two weeks ago. It can take a week or more for a person to become infected, show symptoms, get tested and have their results reported to public health officials. Deaths are generally reported to the state quickly, but it can take weeks for an infected person to succumb to the virus.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:57 PM   #2503
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The New York Times is printing the names of the dead on the front page tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1...oyYSV_Wrno4Kg0
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:15 PM   #2504
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The New York Times is printing the names of the dead on the front page tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1...oyYSV_Wrno4Kg0
Commander Inept will probably respond with something like "Why doesn't the failing NYT print the names of our fallen war fighters on this solemn Memorial Day weekend?"
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:17 PM   #2505
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Commander Inept will probably respond with something like "Why doesn't the failing NYT print the names of our fallen war fighters on this solemn Memorial Day weekend?
Well I'm sure there will be some of our fallen warfighter's names printed.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:35 PM   #2506
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The New York Times is printing the names of the dead on the front page tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1...oyYSV_Wrno4Kg0
Good for them. We need more of that. The local news here has been showing some of the dead with nice memorials about them. It's heartbreaking. It really needs more attention.
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Space Force.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:21 PM   #2507
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There's like 3 people clapping.


Well, I've been avoiding asking my brother if he was still going to vote for Trump. This is the brother who wouldn't vote for Obama because Obama was a socialist

His wife retweeted a meme today: "If we all started wearing masks with Trump 2020, how long before experts decided we don't need them anymore?"

Sigh.
How about masks with 100,000 DEAD on it?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:26 PM   #2508
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
These are the same people who have flags on their cars/trucks, houses, wave them every chance they get, and wear flag motif clothing (which, personally, I find more disrespectful than taking a knee). They think their display of uber nationalism somehow proves how patriotic they are. They wrap themselves in the flag, sometimes literally, and nationalism as if it proves they love America more. Europeans don't understand this obsession with displaying the flag and find it rather odd. To me, it's nothing more than a childish display of "We're #1!" and I find it embarrassing.
On the topic of the flag... it's worth considering the flag code.

The "respect" that I regularly see accorded to the flag is more akin to desecration, honestly. Not that virtually any of them would acknowledge or understand that.

Sorta like the "patriotic woman" who decided to buy a beach towel of the US Flag (which is bad in and of itself, though more because the flag is being used as a cheap marketing tool in that case) and then decided to proudly show her patriotism by standing on it and posting a picture and then couldn't understand why anyone would have a problem with that display of "patriotism."
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:27 PM   #2509
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How about masks with 100,000 DEAD on it?
I like the Body Snatchers idea.

YOU'RE
NEXT!!!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:28 PM   #2510
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
How about masks with 100,000 DEAD on it?
...Outdated in a day.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:31 PM   #2511
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
On the topic of the flag... it's worth considering the flag code.

The "respect" that I regularly see accorded to the flag is more akin to desecration, honestly. Not that virtually any of them would acknowledge or understand that.

Sorta like the "patriotic woman" who decided to buy a beach towel of the US Flag (which is bad in and of itself, though more because the flag is being used as a cheap marketing tool in that case) and then decided to proudly show her patriotism by standing on it and posting a picture and then couldn't understand why anyone would have a problem with that display of "patriotism."
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Why do these people think they need to make public displays of their patriotism all the time? What are they trying to prove except to try and convince others what 'great' Americans they are? I just find it weird.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 05:33 PM   #2512
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
...Outdated in a day.
Spend a few bucks more and get one with a constantly updating display. I'd bet they are totally doable.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:17 PM   #2513
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Spend a few bucks more and get one with a constantly updating display. I'd bet they are totally doable.
That's a lot of tally marks.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:38 PM   #2514
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
These are the same people who have flags on their cars/trucks, houses, wave them every chance they get, and wear flag motif clothing (which, personally, I find more disrespectful than taking a knee). They think their display of uber nationalism somehow proves how patriotic they are. They wrap themselves in the flag, sometimes literally, and nationalism as if it proves they love America more. Europeans don't understand this obsession with displaying the flag and find it rather odd. To me, it's nothing more than a childish display of "We're #1!" and I find it embarrassing.
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
“...the last refuge of a scoundrel.”
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
With this president, that's more true than ever.
That would be true of a competent scoundrel; with this President, it's more like the first refuge.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:42 PM   #2515
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
That would be true of a competent scoundrel; with this President, it's more like the first refuge.
You have a point there.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:51 PM   #2516
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I know all this, but at the same time I can recognize that until people see the effects for real, they will not believe it. At an infection rate of 0.1%, it's likely that the coronavirus has not impacted their lives on a personal level, but the government imposed restrictions have.


Yep. I had a brief encounter with one fellow on another message board who just didn't believe the numbers in his area would ever go up, it was all "hype". He insisted that people where he was living were all just ignoring "social distancing" and everything was fine.

He was in North Carolina.

Go to the Washington Post's Coronavirus tracking page, and look at the number of new cases for NC.

A pretty steady linear increase in new cases per day all through the "lockdown" phase, and that rate of increase has also increased since they started re-opening


He doesn't get the math, all he sees is literally what's right in front of him. Data? What's that? Doesn't mean anything to him.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:59 PM   #2517
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yep. I had a brief encounter with one fellow on another message board who just didn't believe the numbers in his area would ever go up, it was all "hype". He insisted that people where he was living were all just ignoring "social distancing" and everything was fine.

He was in North Carolina.

Go to the Washington Post's Coronavirus tracking page, and look at the number of new cases for NC.

A pretty steady linear increase in new cases per day all through the "lockdown" phase, and that rate of increase has also increased since they started re-opening


He doesn't get the math, all he sees is literally what's right in front of him. Data? What's that? Doesn't mean anything to him.
Sure it does:

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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:19 PM   #2518
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
That angers me. Colorado's mountain towns were infected early and hard by an Australian woman on holiday, and he blames the US for Australian tourists getting infected? Not the skiers who went to Austria where a large proportion of Europe caught it, and then went to other ski locations and spread it?

That was embarrasing, but an isolated incident. The fact is, far more infections came into Australia from the USA rather than the other way around. IIRC, they caught it off a barman in the town anyway. They were reprehensible by refusing to be tested.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:40 PM   #2519
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New infection rates in many of the states that have opened up aggressively (faster than the epidemiologists think safe) appear to be initially manifesting as extended plateaus. Obviously far from the critically desired outcome of decreasing. I wonder if this smoldering epidemic will just go on and on, with significant numbers of dead accumulating day after day but with not enough drama to trigger a public outcry. Or as several of these states are experiencing, smoothly but undeniably increasing, again never with enough drama to attract a strong counter Political response.

On the other hand it seems to me that these states are actually balanced on a knife edge, with the next restaurant or two opening, a little more carelessness by the public, etc. driving the infection rate back into an exponential increase.

Of course several others of these states may already be experiencing what could be the beginnings of exponential growth.

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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:06 PM   #2520
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Why do these people think they need to make public displays of their patriotism all the time? What are they trying to prove except to try and convince others what 'great' Americans they are? I just find it weird.
It's for much the same reason that some religious people think they need to make a public display of their religiosity. Some even manage to do both at the same time. "I truly believe that God has a special plan for America." Said the politician, thereby managing to display in one sentence what a Great Patriot and Devout Christian he is. Me... I wonder if he really is any of those.
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