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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 7th March 2020, 11:53 AM   #161
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I don't know. He fell on his own sword pretty quickly (too quickly) at the "scandal" that was shot at him.
I think that helps his credibility with a base that would rather err on the side of its' own ideology- then ask forgiveness later.

If his reputation is restored, and his position improved, he could end up being the poster boy for how such things need to be handled.
He didn't fall on his sword, though. He said he'd submit to a disciplinary review, and then other Democrats told him he needed to just resign. Since then he's expressed regret at playing along with that agenda.

Even assuming the Democratic establishment that railroaded him is willing to spin it as a Sinner Repentant and Redeemed storyline, why would Franken want to be cast in that role? By the people who railroaded him.

Franken is keeping quiet now, not because he has other sins to cover up, but because there's literally nothing he can do to rehabilitate his reputation besides be quiet and wait.

If you really believe he was unfairly hounded out of office by his fellow Democrats, you'd understand why he isn't stepping forward now.

On the other hand, if he really did what he's supposed to have done, why would you want him back, even to defeat Trump?
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:02 PM   #162
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The pathetic rule-changing to keep Tulsi out of the debates makes at least a little bit of waves now. The Hill fails to mention the previous rule-change in the opposite direction to get Bloomberg on the stage, though.
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:04 PM   #163
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Nobody needs Al Franken to save them from anything. Let him remain on the trash heap of yesterday.
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:07 PM   #164
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Poor Al Franken. Could have retired a legendary comedian. Got into politics instead.
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Old 7th March 2020, 12:21 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He didn't fall on his sword, though. He said he'd submit to a disciplinary review, and then other Democrats told him he needed to just resign. Since then he's expressed regret at playing along with that agenda.

Even assuming the Democratic establishment that railroaded him is willing to spin it as a Sinner Repentant and Redeemed storyline, why would Franken want to be cast in that role? By the people who railroaded him.

Franken is keeping quiet now, not because he has other sins to cover up, but because there's literally nothing he can do to rehabilitate his reputation besides be quiet and wait.

If you really believe he was unfairly hounded out of office by his fellow Democrats, you'd understand why he isn't stepping forward now.

On the other hand, if he really did what he's supposed to have done, why would you want him back, even to defeat Trump?
He has been quiet, and waited. Long enough, I think, to be able to be back in the public eye.
"Unfairly hounded" is a poor characterization. It would have been the case had he further protested, instead he submitted quickly to allegations that for the most part added up to nothing even if accurate. His resignation highlighted the need to reassess the strategy of instantly caving to such.
His rehabilitation would be an easy one.
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Old 7th March 2020, 02:41 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Most people are bad at comedy. Trump's clumsy attempts at humor are probably a lot more relatable than Franken's professional wit.

That's pretty biased, even for you. Al Franken is

1. Good enough
2. Smart enough
3. Doggone it, people like him
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Old 7th March 2020, 02:46 PM   #167
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A good Tulsi meme with a true core.

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Old 7th March 2020, 03:19 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A good Tulsi meme with a true core.

https://i.imgur.com/Zc9486v.jpg

Based on her polling, I think most people aren't even looking at Tulsi.
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Old 7th March 2020, 03:36 PM   #169
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Tulsi knows she cannot win.

She should just drop out and endorse Sanders.
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Old 7th March 2020, 04:17 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A good Tulsi meme with a true core.

https://i.imgur.com/Zc9486v.jpg
Exactly!
No one sees her as even vaguely presidential.
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Old 7th March 2020, 04:30 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Tulsi knows she cannot win.

She should just drop out and endorse Sanders.
I'm not in the business of saying that anyone should just drop out. With that said, Tulsi has close to a 0% chance of winning against Trump, after her long-term bashing on Obama and the Democrats on Fox, before getting to the rest.
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Old 7th March 2020, 06:13 PM   #172
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Forgot one...

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Old 7th March 2020, 06:58 PM   #173
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Major dust-up between campaign surrogates on "Cuomo Prime Time."

Quote:
HILARY ROSEN, BIDEN CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: You know, Nina referenced Dr. Martin Luther King [Jr.] before saying he said from the Birmingham jail that we should be concerned about white moderates. That's actually not what Martin Luther King said. What he said --

NINA TURNER, SANDERS CAMPAIGN SURROGATE: He did say that.

ROSEN: He said we should be worried about the silence of white moderates.

TURNER: Don't tell me about Martin Luther King Jr. Are you kidding me?

ROSEN: Nina --

CUOMO: She's making a language point, Nina.

ROSEN: What he said was we should be worrying about the silence of white moderates. And what we have in Joe Biden is a man that's not silent. He has a long record and many, many votes that in today's world feel like the wrong thing, were the wrong thing and he has discussed that over and over again as Bernie Sanders did on the gun votes and other things. So we can be talking about votes from 20 years ago or we can be talking about people's values and who they trust. And that's what Joe Biden is going to be talking about.

CUOMO: Last quick point to you, Nina.

TURNER: What Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was talking about, he said it is the point that the white moderate wants things to be comfortable instead of focusing in on the bigger threat is not necessarily the white KKK member but more the white moderate that is more comfortable with keeping things the same while pretending like there is no tension than to deal --

ROSEN: Don't use Martin Luther King against Joe Biden. You don't have that --

TURNER: First of all --

ROSEN: You don't have that standing. I'm sorry. You don't.

TURNER: Don't tell me what kind of standing I have as a black woman in America. How dare you?

ROSEN: You have a lot of standing as a black woman in America.

TURNER: First of all, you're dipping into something you don't understand. You need to -- I did not demean you --

ROSEN: You don't have the standing to attack Joe Biden using Martin Luther King's words.

TURNER: I didn't attack anybody. You're taking it that way.

Listen, don't dip into what I have to say about the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. How dare you as a white woman try to tell me --

ROSEN: That is not what I said. Don't you do that.

TURNER: -- trying to tell me what I'm supposed to feel and what I'm doing what now.

CUOMO: Nina, Hillary, I'm out of time on this one --
For what it's worth, the passage in question:

"I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Well, Rosen didn't make things better.

Her first twitter apology:

"On air thurs I said my colleague @ninaturner didn't have a standing to use MLK Jr. That was wrong. I am sorry for saying those words. [Please] no need to defend me and attack angry black women. They have standing. I always need to listen more than I talk. we rise together"

So that go deleted and she's gone with:

"I’m horrified that anyone would think i would call Nina Turner 'an angry black woman' I would NEVER!! After the TV hit last night, I was getting tons of ugly messages to keep fighting her using that phrase. I was trying to tell people to STOP. Cause I KNEW I needed to apologize," Rosen said. "I unequivocally know I disrespected her and I wanted to make it right by telling disgusting white folks to stop. Wow did that tweet go wrong. I am so sorry."

"2/2 I unequivocally know I disrespected her and I wanted to make it right by telling disgusting white folks to stop. Wow did that tweet go wrong. I am so sorry."


So now Sanders gets to try out the "you have to control your people better" attack for himself.

".@JoeBiden must accept responsibility for his surrogate telling our campaign co-chair Senator @NinaTurner that she doesn't have standing to invoke the words of Dr. King. That is unacceptable and Joe must apologize to Nina and all the people of color supporting our campaign."

Finally, this isn't Rosen's first faceplant. She was shuffled away from attention during the Obama administration when she stated Mrs. Romney had "never worked a day in her life" which rightfully upset liberal and conservative women alike.
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Old 7th March 2020, 07:05 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Major dust-up between campaign surrogates on "Cuomo Prime Time."
I think both of them are really nailing their job duties as surrogates, I can easily see their respective candidates having exactly that same exchange. Although perhaps even less eloquently, with more inadvertant spitting.
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Old 7th March 2020, 07:29 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think both of them are really nailing their job duties as surrogates, I can easily see their respective candidates having exactly that same exchange. Although perhaps even less eloquently, with more inadvertant spitting.
Also, If this happened during a debate, the moderators would not suddenly be "out of time" like Cuomo was.
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Old 7th March 2020, 08:00 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Do yourself a favor and watch a couple of Darryl Perry videos.
I could only stomach one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


FOTL stuff. The guy's a loon. Don't go into the movie review business, sir drinks-a-lot.

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Old 7th March 2020, 08:05 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
On the other hand, if he really did what he's supposed to have done, why would you want him back, even to defeat Trump?
What would happen if we judged Trump by the same standard that you are apparently applying to Franken? Drawn and quartered and hanged on the White House lawn?
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Old 7th March 2020, 08:44 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
What would happen if we judged Trump by the same standard that you are apparently applying to Franken? Drawn and quartered and hanged on the White House lawn?
I hope not. Hangmen worked out the physics long ago, if the condemned is past a certain maximum limit of corpulence hanging results in decapitation. Trump's legacy is highly unlikely to include "left a beautiful corpse" but there's no need to make it even worse than necessary.
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Old 7th March 2020, 08:47 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Major dust-up between campaign surrogates on "Cuomo Prime Time."



For what it's worth, the passage in question:

"I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Well, Rosen didn't make things better.

Her first twitter apology:

"On air thurs I said my colleague @ninaturner didn't have a standing to use MLK Jr. That was wrong. I am sorry for saying those words. [Please] no need to defend me and attack angry black women. They have standing. I always need to listen more than I talk. we rise together"

So that go deleted and she's gone with:

"I’m horrified that anyone would think i would call Nina Turner 'an angry black woman' I would NEVER!! After the TV hit last night, I was getting tons of ugly messages to keep fighting her using that phrase. I was trying to tell people to STOP. Cause I KNEW I needed to apologize," Rosen said. "I unequivocally know I disrespected her and I wanted to make it right by telling disgusting white folks to stop. Wow did that tweet go wrong. I am so sorry."

"2/2 I unequivocally know I disrespected her and I wanted to make it right by telling disgusting white folks to stop. Wow did that tweet go wrong. I am so sorry."


So now Sanders gets to try out the "you have to control your people better" attack for himself.

".@JoeBiden must accept responsibility for his surrogate telling our campaign co-chair Senator @NinaTurner that she doesn't have standing to invoke the words of Dr. King. That is unacceptable and Joe must apologize to Nina and all the people of color supporting our campaign."

Finally, this isn't Rosen's first faceplant. She was shuffled away from attention during the Obama administration when she stated Mrs. Romney had "never worked a day in her life" which rightfully upset liberal and conservative women alike.
She has been the perfect illustration of MLK’s point. Love the irony.
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Old 7th March 2020, 09:03 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I hope not. Hangmen worked out the physics long ago, if the condemned is past a certain maximum limit of corpulence hanging results in decapitation. Trump's legacy is highly unlikely to include "left a beautiful corpse" but there's no need to make it even worse than necessary.
When you are hanged, drawn, and quartered, the hanging doesn't actually kill you. It isn't the neck breaking style of hanging. The lift you in the air by your neck, but before you die, they bring you down for the drawing and the quartering.


But the corpse is really very, very, not pretty, even worse than the scenario you described.

Jolly old lot those English were.
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Old 7th March 2020, 09:31 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
When you are hanged, drawn, and quartered, the hanging doesn't actually kill you. It isn't the neck breaking style of hanging. The lift you in the air by your neck, but before you die, they bring you down for the drawing and the quartering.


But the corpse is really very, very, not pretty, even worse than the scenario you described.

Jolly old lot those English were.
From what I've read that's mostly myth and misconception. "Drawing" refers to the method of being taken to the place of execution, it's nothing to do with disembowelling. Disembowelling, if it occurred at all, happened after death, as did quartering which was just chopping up the body...if that ever happened either. Being nasty to the corpse (and later donating the cadaver to medical schools) was an extra revenge on the criminal, but after the execution. The less picturesque reality is that most executions were plain old hanging, or in the case of treason or exceptional cases, beheading. Legends of the Mel Gibson torture fetish style of execution abound, stories told well after the events they purport to describe, but evidence of them actually occuring in that fashion isn't that great.
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Old 7th March 2020, 11:02 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
From what I've read that's mostly myth and misconception.
......
Both Wikipedia and Brittannica say it was the statutory penalty for treason. It might not have happened often, but apparently it did happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged..._and_quartered
https://www.britannica.com/topic/drawing-and-quartering
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Old 7th March 2020, 11:05 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Both Wikipedia and Brittannica say it was the statutory penalty for treason. It might not have happened often, but apparently it did happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged..._and_quartered
https://www.britannica.com/topic/drawing-and-quartering
I know this will be deeply shocking, but I doubt the accuracy of encyclopedias. I don't find the primary sources on this matter to be convincing. YMMD, of course.
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Old 8th March 2020, 07:37 AM   #184
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Wednesday morning can not arrive soon enough. Every other commercial is now ether Biden or Bernie bashing each other, with the random exception of a Warren ad that must have been paid for some time in the past with a 'no refund/no return' stamp on it.
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Old 8th March 2020, 07:42 AM   #185
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Every commercial break now is:

Bernie: "No Obama loves me more!"
Biden: "No Obama loves me more!"

Ladies... you're both pretty.
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Old 8th March 2020, 08:05 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I know this will be deeply shocking, but I doubt the accuracy of encyclopedias. I don't find the primary sources on this matter to be convincing. YMMD, of course.
I tried unsuccessfully to find the death warrant I once read from the middle ages which specified exactly how some Irish traitor or another was to be disposed of. However, this is a bit of a digression from the primary topic of the thread, so I will speak of it no more.
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Old 8th March 2020, 08:10 AM   #187
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Are there still Bloomberg commercials running? I'm still getting stuff in the mail, I thought they'd trickle off over time.
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Old 8th March 2020, 09:40 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
What would happen if we judged Trump by the same standard that you are apparently applying to Franken? Drawn and quartered and hanged on the White House lawn?
I'm asking, is this the standard we're applying to Franken?

If I judged Trump by the same standard by which I judged Franken, Trump would be in office right now, and Franken would have submitted to the recommendation of a Senate ethics review instead of bowing to party pressure and stepping down immediately.

If you're judging Franken and Trump by the same standard I am, I think you'd reach the same conclusion.

If you're judging them by a different standard from me, what's the standard? What should happen to each of those men?
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Old 8th March 2020, 09:43 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Are there still Bloomberg commercials running? I'm still getting stuff in the mail, I thought they'd trickle off over time.

I guess that's proof of the trickle-down effect! (He probably paid for the whole month of March.)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th March 2020, 09:50 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Disembowelling, if it occurred at all, happened after death, as did quartering which was just chopping up the body...if that ever happened either.

It did around here - at least as late as 1772:

Quote:
In 1772 Struensee was arrested and condemned to death for lese-majeste, and together with his friend, Count Enevold Brandt, he was beheaded. His body was quartered and put on the wheel and spear. Most of his reforms were nullified after the execution.
Johann Friedrich Struensee[/i] (kongernessamling.dk)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th March 2020, 09:51 AM   #191
dann
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Every commercial break now is:

Bernie: "No Obama loves me more!"
Biden: "No Obama loves me more!"

Ladies... you're both pretty.

It's the one thing that Trump can't claim!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th March 2020, 11:02 AM   #192
theprestige
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It's the one thing that Trump can't claim!
Sure he can. Bernie and Biden can't both be right, but they can both claim it anyway. So can Trump.
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Old 8th March 2020, 11:13 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Major dust-up between campaign surrogates on "Cuomo Prime Time."
If the Democrats don't watch out, they're going to end up like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...ore_like_this/
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Old 8th March 2020, 11:36 AM   #194
wasapi
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure he can. Bernie and Biden can't both be right, but they can both claim it anyway. So can Trump.
Of course he can. He has claimed other things just as outrageous.
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Old 8th March 2020, 12:03 PM   #195
theprestige
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Of course he can. He has claimed other things just as outrageous.
Everybody loves a winner. Trump actually won the presidency. The presidency is probably the biggest thing you could possibly win, short of a nuclear war. Therefore Obama loves Trump more than either of the other guys.
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Old 8th March 2020, 12:06 PM   #196
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Everybody loves a winner. Trump actually won the presidency. The presidency is probably the biggest thing you could possibly win, short of a nuclear war. Therefore Obama loves Trump more than either of the other guys.
Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote.
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Old 8th March 2020, 12:56 PM   #197
theprestige
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote.
Maybe Obama's tired of all that winning.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:34 PM   #198
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Oops wrong thread
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My authority is total - Trump

Last edited by varwoche; 8th March 2020 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 8th March 2020, 01:38 PM   #199
Beelzebuddy
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
A couple days later he said:
I didn't know people died from the flu.
His own grandfather died in 1918 from the Spanish Flu.
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Old 8th March 2020, 04:07 PM   #200
Cabbage
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Everybody loves a winner. Trump actually won the presidency. The presidency is probably the biggest thing you could possibly win, short of a nuclear war. Therefore Obama loves Trump more than either of the other guys.

Reminds me of

God is Love
Love is Blind
Ray Charles is Blind
Therefore, Ray Charles is God
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