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Old 7th April 2020, 03:08 PM   #241
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
When my father was in the Navy the common consensus was you could only get as high as captain without needing to play golf with the right people. To make admiral you had to schmooze the already-admirals. Golf. Dinner parties. Thoughtful gifts. Admiral isn't a rank that commands immediate respect from everybody, and perhaps it shouldn't.
Consider all admirals come from captains, and they are not caterpillars undergoing metamorphosis into a new admiral creatures, captains probably shouldn't get it either.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:13 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The fact he sent the letter isn't evidence. It is the event trying to be explained.
The fact that his suggestions in the letter were followed and that shoreside evacuation space for thousands of the ship's crew somehow magically became available immediately, is evidence.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:15 PM   #243
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Quote:
Navy officials acknowledged on Sunday that tensions between Captain Crozier and his immediate boss, Rear Adm. Stuart P. Baker, the commander of a multiship task force including the Roosevelt, most likely complicated the Navy’s response to the viral outbreak and prompted the captain to send a four-page letter pleading for help. Officials said the letter, sent as an unclassified email, went only to other Navy personnel, but it leaked to the news media last week.

Indeed, the Navy hinted at such tensions in a statement on Sunday that the findings of the investigation into what happened aboard the Roosevelt and the chain of command in the Pacific, including its “command climate,” would be submitted to Admiral Gilday on Monday.
Well, what do you know.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:15 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The fact that his suggestions in the letter were followed and that shoreside evacuation space for thousands of the ship's crew somehow magically became available immediately, is evidence.
Except we don't actually know when decisions were made to do what. The letter could have even delayed it.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 7th April 2020 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:18 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Consider all admirals come from captains, and they are not caterpillars undergoing metamorphosis into a new admiral creatures, captains probably shouldn't get it either.
The hypothesis is that only a particular type of person can make the transition from captain to admiral. The captains who don't are not that type.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:20 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Except we don't actually know when decisions were made to do what.
Convenient, isn't it?

It is certainly the de facto public relations policy of the current administration that literally any decisions that are self-evidently made in response to negative media attention or public outcry, will officially have been "already made before" whatever bad press the action coincidentally follows.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:20 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Well, what do you know.
Wow. Maybe the captain was making the relationship complicated and causing issues with the very relief effort he wanted.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:21 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The hypothesis is that only a particular type of person can make the transition from captain to admiral. The captains who don't are not that type.
But we have limited knowledge what captains are that type when they are captains. Extending them respect for being one type or the other at this stage is misguided.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:22 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Except we don't actually know when decisions were made to do what. The letter could have even delayed it.
There is more evidence that the letter prompted the decisions rather than delayed them.

And by "more", I mean there is some evidence for the former and absolutely none for the latter.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:22 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But we have limited knowledge what captains are that type when they are captains. Extending them respect for being one type or the other at this stage is misguided.
I think there's a bug in your subroutines. Have Geordi run a diagnostic.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:23 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Convenient, isn't it?

It is certainly the de facto public relations policy of the current administration that literally any decisions that are self-evidently made in response to negative media attention or public outcry, will officially have been "already made before" whatever bad press the action coincidentally follows.
It is very inconvenient that most things will lack the information or adhere to the processes used to determine if something is true. But I have standards and won't relax them for convenience.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:23 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Wow. Maybe the captain was making the relationship complicated and causing issues with the very relief effort he wanted.
Except that his letter produced instant results, rather than a delay.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:24 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Except we don't actually know when decisions were made to do what. The letter could have even delayed it.
If seems logical to me that any decisions being made concerning the ship would have been made known to Crozier ASAP as it was an emergency situation. If he'd been informed that steps were being made to address the emergency, he wouldn't have felt compelled to sent the letter.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:25 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
There is more evidence that the letter prompted the decisions rather than delayed them.

And by "more", I mean there is some evidence for the former and absolutely none for the latter.
Which is meaningless. I have no interest in of x has more evidence than y. I want to know if x is true or not. And insufficient evidence to reach that conclusion is independent of how little evidence Y has.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:25 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Unfortunately, Trump lackeys have never been terribly skilled at either forward thinking or learning.
On the contrary, Mobley seems to have learned well the Trump lesson of berating and demeaning those he fires.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:25 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If seems logical to me that any decisions being made concerning the ship would have been made known to Crozier ASAP as it was an emergency situation. If he'd been informed that steps were being made to address the emergency, he wouldn't have felt compelled to sent the letter.
Indeed, the whole premise of his letter is that the response so far was insufficient.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:26 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Except that his letter produced instant results, rather than a delay.
No, it didn't.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:27 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Which is meaningless. I have no interest in of x has more evidence than y. I want to know if x is true or not. And insufficient evidence to reach that conclusion is independent of how little evidence Y has.
Step right up and witness the Amazing Self-Raising Bar, ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:27 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Time for Trump to get another pair of clownshoes to fill another post.

So, an Acting Acting SECNAV?
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:29 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No, it didn't.
Of course it did; the fact isn't in dispute. Even objective reality itself apparently has no special privilege within your system of singular "standards".
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:30 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Of course it did; the fact isn't in dispute. Even objective reality itself apparently has no special privilege within your system of singular "standards".
A) only if you are murdering the word "instant".

B) correlation is not causation. You said produced it. As of right now, the evidence in this thread is only at correlation.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:37 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
B) correlation is not causation
There is more than correlation involved here. It is not a matter of the Navy's response vaguely "ramping up" coincidentally after the captain complaining that a vague "something more" needed to be done. The letter contains specific suggestions, and those specific suggestions have been realized.

Meanwhile there is zero evidence of any of these specific measures being "in-process" before the captain's letter was drafted and sent.

There is more evidence that the captain's letter prompted the response than there is that it did not. You may insist that under your special personal system "preponderance of evidence is meaningless", and of course that is your prerogative; but to the rest of the world, it makes a difference.
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:39 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
As a US citizen, I'm ashamed any person would say such a thing.
I'm pretty certain you misunderstood Captain Swoop. He was saying Captain Crozier was dead right, not Modly.
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Then I am glad I am not a US citizen.
See above
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:42 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So, an Acting Acting SECNAV?
Trump's actually got a nomination for a permanent SecNav in. But there'll be hearings in the Senate, in which the Dems will get to ask questions. That could get interesting.
Which is, of course, the reason so many of Trump's appointees are "acting".
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:50 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No, it didn't.
You might find this article interesting:

Quote:
A person with oppositional conversational style is a person who, in conversation, disagrees with and corrects whatever you say. He or she may do this in a friendly way, or a belligerent way, but this person frames remarks in opposition to whatever you venture.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-ps...nal-style-ocs/
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Old 7th April 2020, 03:59 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post

There is more evidence that the captain's letter prompted the response than there is that it did not. You may insist that under your special personal system "preponderance of evidence is meaningless", and of course that is your prerogative; but to the rest of the world, it makes a difference.
I know! That is why I'm always busy arguing all the time. It is a real handful.
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:06 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm pretty certain you misunderstood Captain Swoop. He was saying Captain Crozier was dead right, not Modly.
Exactly this.
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:20 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Consider all admirals come from captains, and they are not caterpillars undergoing metamorphosis into a new admiral creatures, captains probably shouldn't get it either.
There is at least enough meritocracy left in the military that Captains still have to be good at their jobs and have the respect of their peers/
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:22 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think there's a bug in your subroutines. Have Geordi run a diagnostic.
Is Geordi fluent in sealion?
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:30 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
There is at least enough meritocracy left in the military that Captains still have to be good at their jobs and have the respect of their peers/
And yet, some of those captains will be the exact same people becoming admirals. If admirals are not deserving respect, then respecting all captains is misguided.
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:37 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Is Geordi fluent in sealion?
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:39 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Is Geordi fluent in sealion?
Once again someone is making reference to sealioning n regards to posts that do not request information or ask any questions.
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:42 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You might find this article interesting:


https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-ps...nal-style-ocs/
When you reject both sides of a claim, it makes sense to direct the hardest arguments against the side you are most likely to agree with.
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:45 PM   #274
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Thank you for your service, now gtfo Mr 'Acting'.
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Old 7th April 2020, 04:53 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
When you reject both sides of a claim, it makes sense to direct the hardest arguments against the side you are most likely to agree with.
You go with that.
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Old 7th April 2020, 05:31 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
There is at least enough meritocracy left in the military that Captains still have to be good at their jobs and have the respect of their peers/
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You go with that.
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Step right up and witness the Amazing Self-Raising Bar, ladies and gentlemen.
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Of course it did; the fact isn't in dispute. Even objective reality itself apparently has no special privilege within your system of singular "standards".
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
There is more than correlation involved here. It is not a matter of the Navy's response vaguely "ramping up" coincidentally after the captain complaining that a vague "something more" needed to be done. The letter contains specific suggestions, and those specific suggestions have been realized.

Meanwhile there is zero evidence of any of these specific measures being "in-process" before the captain's letter was drafted and sent.

There is more evidence that the captain's letter prompted the response than there is that it did not. You may insist that under your special personal system "preponderance of evidence is meaningless", and of course that is your prerogative; but to the rest of the world, it makes a difference.
DBTT, guys. You're just feeding the under-bridge dweller.
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Old 7th April 2020, 05:33 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
DBTT, guys. You're just feeding the under-bridge dweller.
Which one? There are several. Some I have blocked, some I just ignore. Might have to expand that.
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Old 8th April 2020, 08:23 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You might find this article interesting:


https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-ps...nal-style-ocs/

Great explanation for the typical BtC JAQ fest.
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Old 8th April 2020, 08:37 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Great explanation for the typical BtC JAQ fest.
I don't JAQ. I will gladly tell you my reprehensible views.
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Old 8th April 2020, 09:27 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't JAQ. I will gladly tell you my reprehensible views.
No one has an opinion on that.
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