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Old 8th April 2020, 10:23 AM   #281
ahhell
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
And you, for some reason, think that your ideas here escaped the Captain? You think he doesn't know what you know? Do you think he communicated with other people, perhaps the doctors, on the ship before saying this?
I don't know, maybe he just let his own self interest interfere with his decision making. All I know is that it looks like he made a poor choice.
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:07 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
On the contrary, Mobley seems to have learned well the Trump lesson of berating and demeaning those he fires.
What works for Trump (in Trump's mind anyway) does not really work as well for those under him who can simply be fired or asked to resign. It is far easier to get rid of a person in the administration that can disappear without an impeachment/conviction.

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Old 8th April 2020, 11:09 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I don't know, maybe he just let his own self interest interfere with his decision making. All I know is that it looks like he made a poor choice.

Poor choice, career-wise, for himself?!
Or poor choice because he shouldn't have tried to protect people from the virus?
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:13 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I don't know, maybe he just let his own self interest interfere with his decision making. All I know is that it looks like he made a poor choice.
That was kind of what I was drilling at with my post. How can you say it's in his self-interest if he ended up getting **** canned?

To me, it appears to be the exact and polar opposite. Despite what might be best for him or his career, he did what he did in the best interest of his sailors. He felt that he wasn't getting the results he wanted and I can't really see any intent on his end to release this to the media. Shouldn't it be on whichever one of the 20 people he listed, that ended up releasing it to the media, rather than on him? What was classified about the message?
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:16 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
What was classified about the message?
When I was a kid the worst sin imaginable was Embarrassing Mommy In Public.
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:19 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That was kind of what I was drilling at with my post. How can you say it's in his self-interest if he ended up getting **** canned?

To me, it appears to be the exact and polar opposite. Despite what might be best for him or his career, he did what he did in the best interest of his sailors. He felt that he wasn't getting the results he wanted and I can't really see any intent on his end to release this to the media. Shouldn't it be on whichever one of the 20 people he listed, that ended up releasing it to the media, rather than on him? What was classified about the message?
That ^.
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:44 AM   #287
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Modly? "I don't know him."
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:52 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
But don't you think that's because no one was listening to him and/or acting?
I don't think the military considers this reason enough to break the chain of command. He's being disciplined for insubordination, even if he was justified.
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Old 8th April 2020, 11:59 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
the present year....
I've never understood this. Everybody and their mother should understand that "in 2020?" means "at this point in time we expect not to see this sort of thing", refering to changes in standards or social values.

What has you confused about it?
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Old 8th April 2020, 12:13 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't think the military considers this reason enough to break the chain of command. He's being disciplined for insubordination, even if he was justified.
Which means we should consider ourselves lucky that we have men and women with this type of courage, tenacity and care for the people under them that they would sacrifice their career in order to get their crew the attention they deserve. He's a good man.
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Old 8th April 2020, 12:36 PM   #291
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Indeed.
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Old 8th April 2020, 05:06 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Crew being told they had no right to record Modly and to delete from their social media.

Someone REALLY needs to learn the First Rule of Holes. And a little about how the internet works.
Considering that this whole thing started with a leaked memo followed by a leaked recording, why would anyone in public affairs think it was going to be fixed by another mass communication that was certain to be leaked? Does no one in the Navy notice the pattern developing here?
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Old 8th April 2020, 05:12 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Considering that this whole thing started with a leaked memo followed by a leaked recording, why would anyone in public affairs think it was going to be fixed by another mass communication that was certain to be leaked? Does no one in the Navy notice the pattern developing here?
They've never learned the First Rule of Holes, either.
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Old 8th April 2020, 08:59 PM   #294
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Apparently Modly is now under isolation due to Covid-19 exposure.

The irony can not be greater.

To me it is both frightening and awesome how the tables can turn so quickly on an individual. One moment Modly is head of his little fly kingdom of Trump butt kissers, deluded enough to believe that he actually deserves to pretend to be acting secretary of the navy. Smug enough to attack those who truly serve their country. A few days later he is out of a job, hated by most, a joke for those he lorded over, and now isolated by the fear of the very virus he was dismissive of.

All due to a short outbreak of his stupidity and nastiness.

Last edited by Giordano; 8th April 2020 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 9th April 2020, 04:37 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump's actually got a nomination for a permanent SecNav in. But there'll be hearings in the Senate, in which the Dems will get to ask questions. That could get interesting.
Which is, of course, the reason so many of Trump's appointees are "acting".

I wouldn't mind that so much if it wasn't for the fact that all of them seem to be bad actors. (In all senses of the term.)
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Old 9th April 2020, 05:07 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't think the military considers this reason enough to break the chain of command. He's being disciplined for insubordination, even if he was justified.

It isn't clear to me that he actually did this. I haven't seen any evidence, much less any compelling evidence that he did anything more than send out a memo to a group which may well have been entirely appropriate.

He has been crucified because "he should have known" that the memo would be leaked. Why is that? Why should he have known? That is an unfalsifiable assertion. It could have been leaked if he didn't send it to anyone but his immediate superior. It could have been leaked if he didn't do anything but email it to himself. Leaks are like that. How come they haven't revealed who was on this list that was so irresponsible?

For all we know (and I would certainly not be surprised to learn) that leak may have been from someone in the White House who was on that distribution or had access to it.

The fact that Modly leapfrogged the question of Crozier's dereliction (if any such existed) over the very Navy officers in that same chain of command who would normally be responsible for determining what, if any, disciplinary measures were warranted, and instead removed him from command without consulting them leads me to suspect that he did not think such a move would be felt appropriate.

I think Modly knew it would be unlikely that anyone, from the CNO down, would see summary removal from his command as a reasonable first step in reviewing Crozier's actions.

So he did it himself, because he knew that is what Dear Leader Donald would want.

That he didn't anticipate it would backfire and, when it did, that Dear Leader Donald would dump him like a used diaper is just more evidence that he really shouldn't have had the job of SecNav. Even just acting as one.
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Old 9th April 2020, 10:50 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It isn't clear to me that he actually did this. I haven't seen any evidence, much less any compelling evidence that he did anything more than send out a memo to a group which may well have been entirely appropriate.

He has been crucified because "he should have known" that the memo would be leaked. Why is that? Why should he have known? That is an unfalsifiable assertion. It could have been leaked if he didn't send it to anyone but his immediate superior. It could have been leaked if he didn't do anything but email it to himself. Leaks are like that. How come they haven't revealed who was on this list that was so irresponsible?

For all we know (and I would certainly not be surprised to learn) that leak may have been from someone in the White House who was on that distribution or had access to it.

The fact that Modly leapfrogged the question of Crozier's dereliction (if any such existed) over the very Navy officers in that same chain of command who would normally be responsible for determining what, if any, disciplinary measures were warranted, and instead removed him from command without consulting them leads me to suspect that he did not think such a move would be felt appropriate.

I think Modly knew it would be unlikely that anyone, from the CNO down, would see summary removal from his command as a reasonable first step in reviewing Crozier's actions.

So he did it himself, because he knew that is what Dear Leader Donald would want.

That he didn't anticipate it would backfire and, when it did, that Dear Leader Donald would dump him like a used diaper is just more evidence that he really shouldn't have had the job of SecNav. Even just acting as one.
According to Business Insider:

Quote:
Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly reportedly told a colleague that President Donald Trump wanted to fire the commander of an aircraft carrier who warned of the coronavirus outbreak aboard his ship.

According to a Washington Post column, Modly told the colleague he wanted to relieve Capt. Brett Crozier of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, whose four-page letter urging for a "political solution" was leaked to the San Francisco Chronicle.

Modly was reportedly advised by military leaders, including the Chief of Naval Operations Michael Gilday, that the decision should be left with the military.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...crozier-2020-4
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Old 9th April 2020, 05:46 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They've never learned the First Rule of Holes, either.
I try not to anthropomorphize Trump supporters but you'd think their species would pick up on that rule after a while. Even rats eventually figure out how not to get shocked in the maze.
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Old 9th April 2020, 06:06 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Apparently Modly is now under isolation due to Covid-19 exposure.

The irony can not be greater.

To me it is both frightening and awesome how the tables can turn so quickly on an individual. One moment Modly is head of his little fly kingdom of Trump butt kissers, deluded enough to believe that he actually deserves to pretend to be acting secretary of the navy. Smug enough to attack those who truly serve their country. A few days later he is out of a job, hated by most, a joke for those he lorded over, and now isolated by the fear of the very virus he was dismissive of.

All due to a short outbreak of his stupidity and nastiness.

This makes me think that Trump compelled him to go make the speech on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. Is it normal procedure to have acting SecNavs make speeches to boat crews?

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That explains a lot.
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Old 10th April 2020, 07:24 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Apparently Modly is now under isolation due to Covid-19 exposure.

The irony can not be greater.

To me it is both frightening and awesome how the tables can turn so quickly on an individual. One moment Modly is head of his little fly kingdom of Trump butt kissers, deluded enough to believe that he actually deserves to pretend to be acting secretary of the navy. Smug enough to attack those who truly serve their country. A few days later he is out of a job, hated by most, a joke for those he lorded over, and now isolated by the fear of the very virus he was dismissive of.

All due to a short outbreak of his stupidity and nastiness.
Modly getting sick with Covid-19 could not happen to a nicer guy.

If just about anyone else got sick with Covid-19, then I would feel sorry for them, but in the case of Modly I most definitely do not feel sorry for him.

After all, Modly must be either too stupid or too naive to think that visiting a plague ship was a good idea, so it was most fortunate that he bailed out on his job.
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Old 10th April 2020, 11:03 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Modly getting sick with Covid-19 could not happen to a nicer guy.

If just about anyone else got sick with Covid-19, then I would feel sorry for them, but in the case of Modly I most definitely do not feel sorry for him.

After all, Modly must be either too stupid or too naive to think that visiting a plague ship was a good idea, so it was most fortunate that he bailed out on his job.
I hope he caught it on the ship.
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Old 10th April 2020, 11:03 AM   #302
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And then there is this: Ex-acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly's trip to Guam cost $243,000.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-cost-n1179721
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Old 11th April 2020, 08:56 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
And then there is this: Ex-acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly's trip to Guam cost $243,000.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-cost-n1179721
And all he got from it was being reviled, fired, and a deadly virus. He's probably asking himself if it was worth it.
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Old 11th April 2020, 09:27 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And all he got from it was being reviled, fired, and a deadly virus. He's probably asking himself if it was worth it.
Well, it's not his money so what does he care.

A better estimate of cost would be to consider this in light of his 'investment' in the Trump campaign. I suspect the point of the exercise was to add oomph to his CV at PriceWaterhouseCoopers. (I was unable to find the dollar amount through googling.)

This may not be the demonstration of management competence he was hoping to buy.
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Old 13th April 2020, 07:20 AM   #305
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A sailor from the USS Theodore Roosevelt had died of COVID-19, the first active duty service member killed by the disease.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...1RW88TYIXjRmko
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Old 13th April 2020, 07:25 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I try not to anthropomorphize Trump supporters but you'd think their species would pick up on that rule after a while. Even rats eventually figure out how not to get shocked in the maze.
True, but I would see this as evidence that rats are smarter.
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Old 13th April 2020, 08:05 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A sailor from the USS Theodore Roosevelt had died of COVID-19, the first active duty service member killed by the disease.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...1RW88TYIXjRmko
I sure am glad that I am not in the Navy anymore.

They did not give a sh*t about low ranking sailors about 40 years ago and they do not give a sh*t about low ranking sailors now.
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On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
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Old 13th April 2020, 08:17 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I sure am glad that I am not in the Navy anymore.

They did not give a sh*t about low ranking sailors about 40 years ago and they do not give a sh*t about low ranking sailors now.
They are not supposed to
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Old 13th April 2020, 08:18 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
True, but I would see this as evidence that rats are smarter.
That was kind of my point.
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Old 13th April 2020, 08:25 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
They are not supposed to
You are wrong again.
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On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:37 AM   #311
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Adm. Michael Gilday has indicated that he may reinstate Captain Crozier, who was removed from command after pleading for more help fighting a coronavirus outbreak on his ship.

Quote:
The Navy is looking into whether it can reinstate Capt. Brett E. Crozier, who was removed from command of the carrier Theodore Roosevelt after he pleaded for more help fighting a novel coronavirus outbreak aboard his ship, Defense Department officials said on Wednesday.

Adm. Michael M. Gilday, the chief of naval operations, has indicated that he may reinstate Captain Crozier, who is viewed as a hero by his crew for putting their lives above his career, officials said.

“No final decisions have been made,” Cmdr. Nate Christensen, a spokesman for the admiral, said in a statement on Wednesday to The New York Times.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/u...t-crozier.html
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:38 AM   #312
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Meanwhile, over in France, the 1700'ish crew on the carrier Charles de Gaulle is currently a prime example of how quickly it can spread in such an environment.

Out of 66 tests carried out on April 8th, 50 returned positive, and the carrier was ordered to return to base immediately. As of yesterday, they're up to 668 positive tests.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:36 AM   #313
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Adm. Michael Gilday has indicated that he may reinstate Captain Crozier, who was removed from command after pleading for more help fighting a coronavirus outbreak on his ship.



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/u...t-crozier.html
I do hope Capt. Crozier is reinstated. It was deplorable how he was treated. How perfectly ironic it would be for him to be reinstated while Modly has been fired (forced 'resignation') and shamed. Karma, baby, karma.
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Old 16th April 2020, 11:04 AM   #314
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I do hope Capt. Crozier is reinstated. It was deplorable how he was treated. How perfectly ironic it would be for him to be reinstated while Modly has been fired (forced 'resignation') and shamed. Karma, baby, karma.
He was removed from a position he didn't have a right to by person who had authority to decide that. Why is that deplorable treatment?
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Old 16th April 2020, 12:23 PM   #315
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
He was removed from a position he didn't have a right to by person who had authority to decide that. Why is that deplorable treatment?
Do the 8 pages of this thread not show up for you? Try refreshing.
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:13 PM   #316
BobTheCoward
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Do the 8 pages of this thread not show up for you? Try refreshing.
His boss did not like how he was doing his job and removed him. He wasn't even punished. Hardly deplorable treatment.
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Old 16th April 2020, 02:17 PM   #317
Captain_Swoop
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Give it a rest.
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Old 16th April 2020, 03:44 PM   #318
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
His boss did not like how he was doing his job and removed him. He wasn't even punished. Hardly deplorable treatment.
This is one of your most transparent attempts at starting a "let's go down the rabbit hole" side track. I ain't Alice.
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Old 16th April 2020, 04:21 PM   #319
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Let's see, Trump can horn in on the publicity by reinstating Crozier.


Any doubt?
__________________
Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 17th April 2020, 06:28 AM   #320
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is one of your most transparent attempts at starting a "let's go down the rabbit hole" side track. I ain't Alice.
Is there a way I can challenge the assertion that his treatment was "deplorable" that is acceptable?
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