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Tags presidential approval , presidential rankings

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Old 7th May 2020, 08:53 PM   #1
Ranb
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Presidential Greatness

All the U.S. Presidents, Ranked by “Greatness”

https://cognitivefeedbackloop.com/al...s-b5f6a0b6dc3e



Quote:
This question was posed to 170 current and recent members of the Presidents & Executive Politics Section of the American Political Science Association — a group of social science experts in presidential politics. These political scientists scored each president’s “greatness” on a scale of 0 to 100, with 0 being a failure, 50 being average and 100 being great.

Some may say that the results are obviously skewed by the liberal biases of the academics who participated in the survey, and those people would probably be right. Of the respondents, 57.2% identified as Democrats, while only 12.7% as Republicans.

However, being the objectively-minded academics that they are, the authors of this report parsed this data and provided separate reports for how each president was rated by the survey respondents on the left and right side of the political fence.
Reagan rated higher than I thought he would. Not surprised at all that Trump is rated so low.

There is supposed to be more details here, https://www.boisestate.edu/sps-politicalscience/ but I didn't see them.

Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 7th May 2020 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:19 PM   #2
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Not surprised to see Buchanan so close to the bottom of the list - he was the only president who left office with fewer states than we had when he came in.
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Old 7th May 2020, 09:32 PM   #3
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What's funny about this is that even conservative political scientists rate him way behind Obama.
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Old 8th May 2020, 01:54 AM   #4
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Has the currant president seen this?
I would love to hear him tweeting about it.
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Old 8th May 2020, 02:27 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
What's funny about this is that even conservative political scientists rate him way behind Obama.

I found it funny that they barely rated him higher than Harrison. He's just slightly greater than a President who died a month after taking office.
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Old 8th May 2020, 02:43 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Has the currant president seen this?
I would love to hear him tweeting about it.
He will be raisin hell.
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Old 8th May 2020, 04:01 AM   #7
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I guess Obama used to be the black currant president.
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Old 8th May 2020, 09:26 AM   #8
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That depends on the date
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:39 AM   #9
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Can we please prune back these off-topic comments?
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:56 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
All the U.S. Presidents, Ranked by “Greatness”

https://cognitivefeedbackloop.com/al...s-b5f6a0b6dc3e

https://i.postimg.cc/mP26YNCg/1-z9-J...6-VYQngg-Q.png



Reagan rated higher than I thought he would. Not surprised at all that Trump is rated so low.

There is supposed to be more details here, https://www.boisestate.edu/sps-politicalscience/ but I didn't see them.

Ranb
The article is two years old. I found this humorous: "It should be noted that because the survey was taken in December 2017 or January 2018, Donald Trump was only rated on his first year in office. This means that unlike the other presidents, he can still do something during the next couple years to improve his legacy."
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Old 8th May 2020, 11:17 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
The article is two years old. I found this humorous: "It should be noted that because the survey was taken in December 2017 or January 2018, Donald Trump was only rated on his first year in office. This means that unlike the other presidents, he can still do something during the next couple years to improve his legacy."
He could have, but did not of course. Trump doubled down on the lunacy instead.
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Old 8th May 2020, 11:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
All the U.S. Presidents, Ranked by “Greatness”

https://cognitivefeedbackloop.com/al...s-b5f6a0b6dc3e

https://i.postimg.cc/mP26YNCg/1-z9-J...6-VYQngg-Q.png



Reagan rated higher than I thought he would. Not surprised at all that Trump is rated so low.

There is supposed to be more details here, https://www.boisestate.edu/sps-politicalscience/ but I didn't see them.

Ranb
It's probably a mistake to have the respondents rate presidents from their own lifetimes. It seems unlikely that Grant and Obama would get the same dispassionate evaluation from someone who wasn't born until long after Grant's passing, and who actually voted for Obama.
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Old 8th May 2020, 11:41 AM   #13
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I'm shocked Harrison isn't on the top of the list. Spending only 31 days in office dying is a standard we should hold to most presidents.

You might not agree, but that's what peak performance looks like.


Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's probably a mistake to have the respondents rate presidents from their own lifetimes. It seems unlikely that Grant and Obama would get the same dispassionate evaluation from someone who wasn't born until long after Grant's passing, and who actually voted for Obama.
Yeah, time really doing the heavy lifting here. My understanding is that Lincoln was considered a rather divisive figure in his time. Might have been even a few rowdy protests down in the South, IIRC.
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Old 8th May 2020, 11:42 AM   #14
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Deleted, meant to edit previous post.
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Old 8th May 2020, 12:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm shocked Harrison isn't on the top of the list. Spending only 31 days in office dying is a standard we should hold to most presidents.

You might not agree, but that's what peak performance looks like.




Yeah, time really doing the heavy lifting here. My understanding is that Lincoln was considered a rather divisive figure in his time. Might have been even a few rowdy protests down in the South, IIRC.
The guy didn't even abolish slavery, and some of the stuff he did do was at least constitutionally questionable.

Not to mention throwing several hundred thousand people into the meat grinder.
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Old 8th May 2020, 01:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Can we please prune back these off-topic comments?
I'm plum out of new ones to add anyway.
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Old 8th May 2020, 04:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Can we please prune back these off-topic comments?
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm plum out of new ones to add anyway.
Ease up or you might start a movement.
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Old 8th May 2020, 05:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Has the currant president seen this?
I would love to hear him tweeting about it.
Fake News
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Old 8th May 2020, 06:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Has the currant president seen this?
I would love to hear him tweeting about it.

I can imagine this one from him:

Fake News! I have had the perfect presidency. People are saying, "Sir, your presidency is the best in history, Sir! It's tremendous, great, fantastic, the best!" I've got a 99% approval rating and women are all naming their babies after me! "Donald" is the most popular name in the world...even for girls! People don't know that but some do. We'll see!
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yeah, time really doing the heavy lifting here. My understanding is that Lincoln was considered a rather divisive figure in his time. Might have been even a few rowdy protests down in the South, IIRC.

The entire presidential race was different depending on where you lived. It was Lincoln v. Douglass in the north and Breckinridge v. Bell in the south. In ten southern states, Lincoln wasn't even on the ballot.

But, I agree that at least those who held office in the last 20 years should be excluded from such polls. For this poll, that would have been Clinton, W., Obama, and Rump.
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Old 8th May 2020, 11:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
The entire presidential race was different depending on where you lived. It was Lincoln v. Douglass in the north and Breckinridge v. Bell in the south. In ten southern states, Lincoln wasn't even on the ballot.

But, I agree that at least those who held office in the last 20 years should be excluded from such polls. For this poll, that would have been Clinton, W., Obama, and Rump.
Lincoln won the presidency with only 40% of the electoral votes and just under 40% of the popular vote due to the votes being split 4 ways.
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Old 9th May 2020, 12:37 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Not surprised to see Buchanan so close to the bottom of the list - he was the only president who left office with fewer states than we had when he came in.
I was wondering, before looking at the answers, whether Trump or Buchanan would be in last place.

I guess they were judging William Henry Harrison by his level of greatness before he took office. I don't think anyone could say that his time in office had anything at all of greatness.

I was also surprised at how high Obama and Clinton were placed. I thought both of them were good presidents, but, "great"? I don't see it.
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Old 9th May 2020, 09:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post

I was also surprised at how high Obama and Clinton were placed. I thought both of them were good presidents, but, "great"? I don't see it.
Yeah. And ghw bush too.


Silly poll is silly.
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Old 9th May 2020, 10:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I was wondering, before looking at the answers, whether Trump or Buchanan would be in last place.

Allow me to recommend Worst President Ever, a surprisingly light and entertaining read about the complete dumpster fire of the Buchanan presidency.

Kansas has erupted into civil war, setting up two opposing governments? What is a president to do? If you're James Buchanan, the answer is,"Absolutely nothing."
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Old 9th May 2020, 03:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Yeah. And ghw bush too.


Silly poll is silly.
How much farther up in the ranking would you say Trump lies? At the top, where Trumpy himself claims?

Probably not. Anyone hanging about here would not be so daft. Only an ignoramus would put Trump within a country mile of where that man thinks himself to be.
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Old 9th May 2020, 03:35 PM   #26
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Well, Trump is best at something again !
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Old 9th May 2020, 03:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
How much farther up in the ranking would you say Trump lies? At the top, where Trumpy himself claims?

Probably not. Anyone hanging about here would not be so daft. Only an ignoramus would put Trump within a country mile of where that man thinks himself to be.
Is TDS blinding ? I said nothing about trump deserving a higher spot. What I did say is that a number of other recent presidents seem to be too high.
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Old 9th May 2020, 05:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Yeah. And ghw bush too.

Silly poll is silly.
It wasn’t a poll.
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Old 9th May 2020, 08:39 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Is TDS blinding ? I said nothing about trump deserving a higher spot. What I did say is that a number of other recent presidents seem to be too high.
True. I am rather focused upon the current travesty.

By the way, as I pointed out somewhere here yesterday, the Trump supporters' refrain of "TDS" is getting TeDiouS.

As also pointed out here, just above, this result under discussion is not a poll, at least in the usual sense. I gather some criteria were established by which to rank with some degree of objectivity. This is borne out by the fairly small divergence in any one President's ranking by political affiliation of the participants. Indeed, there are a few cases where the rank expectation was reversed from what might expect, with Dems more favoring a Rep POTUS and vice versa. These factors lend no small degree of credence to the resulting ranking.

We can argue about the potential for freshness of memory of recent POTI to introduce bias. But the demonstration that, in the main, R and D participants follow the same general trend in ranking at least reduces the variable of bias resulting from political affiliation by a good margin. Among these accredited experts in the field of political science/history, anyway. From the man in the street we should expect to find a *far* higher correlation with political leanings.

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Old 9th May 2020, 09:18 PM   #30
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What surprised me is that Republican rated him lower than Nixon.

Ouch.
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Old 9th May 2020, 10:14 PM   #31
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It's funny. But I look at JFK as one of the best orators. He made me proud to be an American. But his administration got little to nothing done. There was the Bay of Pigs disaster. But he did handle the Cuban Missile crisis well. But I view that almost luck. In a way and this sounds awful, but he accomplished more by being assassinated then he did as President. It led to LBJ's landslide and many real legislative accomplishments.

Eisenhower, like JFK was a mixed bag. The people warmed to him and you have to give him credit for the Interstate Highway system that Truman was unable to push through. But you have to give Ike an F when it came to advancing race relations when he should have.

Nixon was better than many give him credit for. But he was corrupt when he didn't really need to be.

What is interesting to me about this list is there are 3 Republican Presidents that Democrats rated higher than Republicans.
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Old 9th May 2020, 10:49 PM   #32
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I find a high correlation for presidential ranking with unexpected events that turned out well or poorly. For example, Hoover was a pretty hard-working policy wonk (unlike his two idiot predecessors). However, he gets hit with the Great Depression and he gets the blame and loses. Wilson, on the other hand, had to be dragged kicking and screaming into WWI. But, since that turned out pretty good for us, he gets the credit. Wilson is 11 from the top, Hoover is 9 from the bottom.

The question remains as to how much each man, as president, has to do with the outcome of huge world events. Were they swept by the tides of history, or did they steer the nation over said tides? I don't know.

When it comes to Trump, I think historians will judge him on how well the Covid19 pandemic turned out for the nation. If we create new policies for social interaction and tracing, innovate new technologies for testing and monitoring other possible threats, and establish a new normal of more work from home, smaller office spaces, more green spaces (after we tear down the unused offices), and crazy, new medical procedures with robotic leaches and whatever - if we do all that, Trump, for all his obvious faults, may climb out of the basement given enough time.
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
When it comes to Trump, I think historians will judge him on how well the Covid19 pandemic turned out for the nation.
The general consensus will be “worst response of any first world nation”, if people are kind.
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Old 10th May 2020, 05:27 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's funny. But I look at JFK as one of the best orators. He made me proud to be an American. But his administration got little to nothing done. There was the Bay of Pigs disaster. But he did handle the Cuban Missile crisis well. .
On the other hand, the Cuban missile crisis only happened because JFK had come across as weak to Khrushchev when they’d had the Vienna summit, leading Khrushchev to think he could push jfk around. The Cuban missile crisis was the result.

From wiki:
“ In retrospect the summit may be seen as a failure. The two leaders became increasingly frustrated at the lack of progress of the negotiations. Kennedy later said of Khrushchev, "He beat the hell out of me" and told New York Times reporter James 'Scotty' Reston it was the "worst thing in my life. He savaged me."[18] On the other hand, Khrushchev viewed the Summit in a much more positive light. In his memoir, Khrushchev showed ambivalence. He proclaimed, "I was generally pleased with our meeting in Vienna. Even though we came to no concrete agreement, I could tell that [Kennedy] was interested in finding a peaceful solution to world problems and avoiding conflict with the Soviet Union."[19] However, historian William Taubman suggests that Khrushchev merely felt he could "[push Kennedy around]."[20]”
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Old 10th May 2020, 06:12 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
...

Kansas has erupted into civil war, setting up two opposing governments? What is a president to do? If you're James Buchanan, the answer is,"Absolutely nothing."
Which is virtually the same thing as saying "We'll see what happens."
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Old 10th May 2020, 06:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Which is virtually the same thing as saying "We'll see what happens."

I would tend to agree. However, I would discount that agreement because we're too close to the Trump presidency to view it in a historical light. I wouldn't rate anybody past Clinton.
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Old 10th May 2020, 07:20 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I would tend to agree. However, I would discount that agreement because we're too close to the Trump presidency to view it in a historical light. I wouldn't rate anybody past Clinton.
Ok. I’ll agree that it is too soon.

But even if DJT deserves to jump up by 20 positions, he’s still going to be in the bottom half. And even if BO drops 10, he’s still going to in the top half.

I could imagine some secret crime coming to light to drop BO 25 positions. But I cannot for the life of me imagine anything that would raise DJT even 12 positions.

I’d be amazed if DJT ended up above BO in the next 10, 40, or 120 years.
Then again, anything can happen in the long run.

ETA

I Think that President Trump would have received a fair amount of greatness if he had been able to achieve any three items from this list

Show compassion.
Know when to shut up.
Put America’s interest ahead of your own.
Learn to take a joke.
Act like an adult.
Get over your desire to blame everything on President Obama.
Admit your mistakes and move on.
Stop looking at the presidency as a reality show.
Learn economics (understand how trade wars don’t help).
Don’t fire people who disagree with you.
Stop calling people names (or at the very least, be more clever when choosing your taunts).

But untreated mental illness can control a person’s life.
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Last edited by Ladewig; 10th May 2020 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 10th May 2020, 02:08 PM   #38
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I would tend to agree. However, I would discount that agreement because we're too close to the Trump presidency to view it in a historical light. I wouldn't rate anybody past Clinton.
I know that on the day he left office, I would have called Reagan one of the worst presidents in American history. Today, I can understand how he could rank pretty high in "greatness".

I still think a lot of his economic policies were awful. However, he changed the direction of the country, and his cold war policies look a lot better to me today than they looked at the time. I definitely think it takes some historical perspective to judge "greatness".
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Old 10th May 2020, 02:46 PM   #39
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What things that can be attributed to Trump might rise to "greatness" a hundred years hence?

- Putting kids in cages?
- Giving billionaires a hefty tax break, at the cost of a rise in the national debt, when such 'stimulus' was absolutely unnecessary?
- Unilaterally pulling out of a successful nuclear deal with Iran, against all allies' advice?
- Standing practically alone in the world against climate change initiatives?
- "Falling in love" with just about the worst despot?
- Debasing his country by cuddling up to Putin, against his own national security advisers?
- A record of outright lies that boggles the mind?
- Accepting (illegally) help from a foreign Power to get elected?
- Stating his desire for more such (illegal) help to get re-elected?
- Constant violations of the Constitution's Emoluments Clause?
- Corrupting and perverting the DoJ by getting his desired 'Roy Cohn' in the form of Bill Barr?
- Being credibly accused of sexual assault by nearly 2 dozen women?
- The most inept response to a viral pandemic, at least in the developed world?
- And let's not forget: Getting impeached.

How many of these aspects will our great great grandkids look favorably upon?

Last edited by Lurch; 10th May 2020 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 10th May 2020, 08:49 PM   #40
Loss Leader
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I know that on the day he left office, I would have called Reagan one of the worst presidents in American history. Today, I can understand how he could rank pretty high in "greatness".

I still think a lot of his economic policies were awful. However, he changed the direction of the country, and his cold war policies look a lot better to me today than they looked at the time. I definitely think it takes some historical perspective to judge "greatness".

I think Reagan gets a lot of credit for things he really had nothing to do with. The end of the Cold War was coming because, unknown to us, the USSR didn't have the money to compete with America anymore. It was coming because western TV had penetrated into eastern bloc countries and their citizens saw the lifestyle westerners were living.

The economy was on the upswing and that had very little to do with Reagan. Deregulation certainly helped but it was just a time of prosperity, one that started before he took office and continued at least part of the way through GHWB's term.

The only way Reagan was great, in my opinion, is that he unified the Republican party for a long time. He bound the social conservatives with the fiscal conservatives with some wealthy Jews who wanted stronger protections for Israel under his "big tent." That unity lasts to this day - even as all those groups have been given plenty of reasons to despise the others. That was his greatest accomplishment.

I would personally rate him a little above average.
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