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Old 13th May 2020, 06:42 AM   #41
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To be honest, telling obvious lies and having the other powerful people accept it is quite the exhibition of authority. Trump's authority over the Republican party is so complete, things like truth aren't really important.

Many authoritarians tell obvious whoppers. It's just the way they flex their muscles.
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Old 13th May 2020, 02:28 PM   #42
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The worst thing about Trump's lying is that he often lies about things that he doesn't need to lie about. There has been cases where he is lied about the US Economy when it was doing well enough that telling the truth would have been just as if not more beneficial to him. That's a problem, because when your lies actually obscure a beneficial truth, you have a major issue.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:07 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It stuns me. I haven't liked a single Republican president of my life time. But I understood their appeal. Trump is truly a despicable human being absent of any redeeming character I can see. I have never seen a single person in my entire life more self centered, more rude and more dishonest.

A very distant second was one of my older brothers who lied and exaggerated a lot. The difference being, my brother went to prison and deserved it. Trump is much worse and the country made him President.

I don't get it.
I'm sorry about your brother. Your thoughts are the same as those of mine. If I were a life long dyed in the wool conservative, my thoughts wouldn't be any different. I've had complete and utter contempt for Trump since the 1980's at a time I had no thoughts whatsoever about politics or which party I should vote for. He is the 7 deadly sins and none of the 4 virtues. I don't get it either. My bus driver that takes me to work each day (before the pandemic) is far more deserving and capable of the presidency than Trump.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:12 PM   #44
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Mental illness and simple despicableness (despicability?) aside, I still think Putin has some kind of Russian Pee Hooker video. Anything Trump can say to make Putin think he is weakening the United States is what comes out of his deranged mouth.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:56 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
Mental illness and simple despicableness (despicability?) aside, I still think Putin has some kind of Russian Pee Hooker video. Anything Trump can say to make Putin think he is weakening the United States is what comes out of his deranged mouth.
My fear is that the truth of the matter is much worse than a video with hookers. After all, President Trump could discount any video by saying “hookers? Really? Who is going to believe someone as handsome, charming, and sophisticated as myself would ever pay for it.” And his followers would lap it up.

I fear that Putin simply told him. After you leave office I am going to give you 3 square miles in downtown Moscow and I’m going to rename that area “Donald Trump City.” This POTUS is so easily played, so vain, and so greedy that blackmail isn’t necessary.
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Old 16th May 2020, 12:11 AM   #46
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As for the thread’s topic, I posit that technically, he isn’t lying at all.

Lying requires someone knowing the truth and then attempting to deceive others by describing something other than the truth. Pres. Trump doesn’t care what the truth is. That makes him a BSer.

Almost all of his behavior can be explained by assuming that he walks into a room and says to himself, “what specific words must I say to make these people right here give me applause.” That’s how he can unashamedly contradict himself. Tha’s why he gets so upset when someone points out what he just said is the opposite of what he said yesterday. The foundation of his message is “pay attention to what I am saying now! Ignore everything else I have ever said. Only right now matters.”

He doesn’t read briefing folders because the facts don’t matter to a BSer. He just slings the bull as he sees fit.
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Old 16th May 2020, 01:01 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by dejudge View Post
People seem to forget that Trump was elected!!

Why did America elect a known liar?

It would be expected that by now his approval rating would be near zero but it is not. His approval rating is almost the same since before he was elected President which means America is satisfied with the known liar?

Why does a known liar appeal to America?

Who has really gone mad- Trump or America??
He was elected for many reasons. People who have a one or two subject agenda such as getting rid of Roe v Wade, fear of having their guns taken away, racism, bigotry, immigration, religion...the list is endless. As long as the candidate opposes whatever they oppose, they ignore everything else.

Attraction to authoritarianism is another one. Conservatives, especially the far right, tend toward this much more than Democrats. Trump is definitely an authoritarian figure. The mind that is attracted to authoritarianism also tends to accept whatever the authority figure tells them. You can see this in cults where whatever the cult leaders says, no matter how extreme, is just accepted. Even to the point of committing suicide if told to or giving up one's children or spouse to the cult leader. Think of Jim Jones and Jonestown, Mormon fundamentalist Warren Jeffries or the Heaven's Gate mass suicide.
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Old 16th May 2020, 06:17 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
Mental illness and simple despicableness (despicability?) aside, I still think Putin has some kind of Russian Pee Hooker video. Anything Trump can say to make Putin think he is weakening the United States is what comes out of his deranged mouth.
At this point I don't think he would even be upset by the release of a pee tape, nor would his supporters be affected, nor would anyone else be shocked, and there would be no repercussions at all.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:02 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
As for the thread’s topic, I posit that technically, he isn’t lying at all.

Lying requires someone knowing the truth and then attempting to deceive others by describing something other than the truth. Pres. Trump doesn’t care what the truth is. That makes him a BSer.

Almost all of his behavior can be explained by assuming that he walks into a room and says to himself, “what specific words must I say to make these people right here give me applause.” That’s how he can unashamedly contradict himself. Tha’s why he gets so upset when someone points out what he just said is the opposite of what he said yesterday. The foundation of his message is “pay attention to what I am saying now! Ignore everything else I have ever said. Only right now matters.”

He doesn’t read briefing folders because the facts don’t matter to a BSer. He just slings the bull as he sees fit.
I'd say often it's just a stream of consciousness thing. Where it goes into active lying is when he defends what just tumbled out of his mouth previously.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:17 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Attraction to authoritarianism is another one. Conservatives, especially the far right, tend toward this much more than Democrats. Trump is definitely an authoritarian figure. The mind that is attracted to authoritarianism also tends to accept whatever the authority figure tells them. You can see this in cults where whatever the cult leaders says, no matter how extreme, is just accepted. Even to the point of committing suicide if told to or giving up one's children or spouse to the cult leader. Think of Jim Jones and Jonestown, Mormon fundamentalist Warren Jeffries or the Heaven's Gate mass suicide.
Yep.
Our younger members may not know the etymology of “drink the Kool-Aid.” That was Jim Jones.

Sadly, I’ve come to conclude that one can never undrink the Kool-Aid. The majority of Trump followers can never be talked out of their belief in the greatness of President Trump. That’s why some of them talk of taking up arms if Trump isn’t re-elected. In their minds, the only possible reason the greatest president in history doesn’t win in 2020 is voter fraud.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:18 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Certainly possible.

Also possible is it’s learned behavior. Hardfast rules first gleaned from Roy Cohn, and later refined by Roger Stone. Never admit you’re wrong. Take credit for everything good, blame others for everything bad. Praise those who are useful to you. Belittle and mock and caricature anyone who dare oppose you.

I think a sane person could just make a conscious effort to follow those rules. Which, we have to admit, got a very small man all the way to the White House. But I suspect over the years these rules have been internalized to the extent they are indistinguishable from a mental disorder. And as such, may have actually become a mental disorder.
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I think it is more likely that he knows absolutely nothing at all about anything, and will simply make **** up that he thinks sounds good.

His head is basically empty, but for the basic reptilian instincts. If it wasn't for his thick skull, the vacuum would drag his ears in. And he has been determined to be profoundly ignorant since childhood. Nobody has ever said NO to him, or forced him to actually pay attention and learn, or made him own up to his mistakes. His narcissism has been fed juicy red meat for all his life.

So his ability to reason out problems and avoid pitfalls based on prior knowledge is zero because he doesn't retain any prior knowledge. Having never experienced negative feedback means he believes anything he says is gospel and profound. So any resistance, any kickback, any questioning is an assault on his narcissistic castle, leading to towering anger and bitter denial.

So it is not so much that he lies all the time so much as he lives in a fairy tale land in his head. He thinks he is all-knowing and thus his truths are the only ones he accepts. When reality bites and shows him he is profoundly wrong, he continues to insist he is right because he has never learned to learn otherwise.
To me, the highlighted portions are key (which is why I highlighted them.)

I believe he's been able to surround himself with sycophantic "yes" men during his whole adult life. If he said something dumb, illogical, something others new would lose money, I have a feeling those in the room would just nod and say, "yes."

He's never been called out on his exaggerations or lies or whatever the correct terms might be; and that's carried over into his presidency.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:33 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'd say often it's just a stream of consciousness thing. Where it goes into active lying is when he defends what just tumbled out of his mouth previously.
Well, yes. Once someone says “what you just said is wrong,” or worse, “the facts indicate that what you just said is indefensibly wrong.” He goes into defense mode. Just before he starts yelling, “you’re a poopy-head and nobody likes you,” he’ll say things like “academics have been calling me to tell me how right I am on this subject.” There are a lot of lies that pop out of his mouth once he has been triggered.
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Old 16th May 2020, 09:55 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
...snip

Think of Jim Jones and Jonestown, Mormon fundamentalist Warren Jeffries or the Heaven's Gate mass suicide.
You mean Warren Jeffs, right?

Or Robert Jeffress, the sycophant evangelical who is a big Trump supporter.
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:30 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by dejudge View Post
People seem to forget that Trump was elected!!

Why did America elect a known liar?

It would be expected that by now his approval rating would be near zero but it is not. His approval rating is almost the same since before he was elected President which means America is satisfied with the known liar?

Why does a known liar appeal to America?

Who has really gone mad- Trump or America??
Trump got elected because his lies told a relatively small group of voters what they needed to hear, that the clock could be turned back, that the well paying jobs they used to have could come back, regardless of the fact that many of those jobs have simply ceased to exist due to automation or were dying industries. What he did to the voters was no different to what he did to the people who signed up for courses at Trump University.
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Old 16th May 2020, 10:37 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
To me, the highlighted portions are key (which is why I highlighted them.)

I believe he's been able to surround himself with sycophantic "yes" men during his whole adult life. If he said something dumb, illogical, something others new would lose money, I have a feeling those in the room would just nod and say, "yes."

He's never been called out on his exaggerations or lies or whatever the correct terms might be; and that's carried over into his presidency.
Yes. He's always run a family business. He was always the boss. He's never had to work with people, so he doesn't know how to do it. He just expects anything he says goes.
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Old 16th May 2020, 11:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
My question is this. Why does Trump feel the need to lie about everything and why do some people ignore this?

Trump is so used to exaggerating, it has become his standard approach to anything. Most people lie from time to time, but they aren't compelled to make things up when there is little reason to.

Any theories?
My only theory is that he doesn't lie about everything, that you don't believe he lies about everything, and that the only real question is when do you find it expedient to say he lies about everything even though you don't believe it.
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Old 16th May 2020, 11:31 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Trump got elected because his lies told a relatively small group of voters what they needed to hear, that the clock could be turned back, that the well paying jobs they used to have could come back, regardless of the fact that many of those jobs have simply ceased to exist due to automation or were dying industries. What he did to the voters was no different to what he did to the people who signed up for courses at Trump University.
And not just that the jobs could come back, but that certain "others" -- Mexicans, China, etc -- were responsible for them going away in the first place.
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Old 16th May 2020, 12:17 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My only theory is that he doesn't lie about everything, that you don't believe he lies about everything, and that the only real question is when do you find it expedient to say he lies about everything even though you don't believe it.
Ooh! Burn!

A non-literal us of the word "everything" is just the same as Trump's many lies. Libs are no better than Trump!

Well, that's it then. Thread over.
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Old 16th May 2020, 12:25 PM   #59
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I don't believe Trump could stop lying if he wanted to. It is as if was born with it and could no more change it then he could change his DNA or blood type. It is his nature. If his environment growing up contributed to his ability to lie, I don't know. But it seems like second-nature for him.
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Old 16th May 2020, 12:29 PM   #60
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Old 16th May 2020, 12:35 PM   #61
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Commander in Cheat

I was reading this article; https://golf.com/lifestyle/celebriti...g-tiger-woods/
Quote:
I used to have this coach who told us, “How you do one thing is how you do everything. You loaf in practice, you’re gonna loaf in the game. You cheat on your tests, you’re gonna cheat on your wife.”
Interesting read to say the least. So I got the book Commander in Cheat. It is funny and tragic at the same time. If it was just about Trump the buffoon, it would be merely funny. But it's about the President of the United States.

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Old 16th May 2020, 12:48 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Yep.
Our younger members may not know the etymology of “drink the Kool-Aid.” That was Jim Jones.

Sadly, I’ve come to conclude that one can never undrink the Kool-Aid. The majority of Trump followers can never be talked out of their belief in the greatness of President Trump. That’s why some of them talk of taking up arms if Trump isn’t re-elected. In their minds, the only possible reason the greatest president in history doesn’t win in 2020 is voter fraud.
Kool Aid was Ken Kesey, covered in Tom Wolfe’s book. Jonestown was Flavor Aid.
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Old 16th May 2020, 01:13 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Ooh! Burn!

A non-literal us of the word "everything"
I don't think the thread makes any sense with a non-literal interpretation of "everything."

Trump lies about some things? Okay, I can see that. But then you have a thread asking, "why does Trump lie about some things?"

Which, okay, valid question. But you'd have to look at the specific things you think he's lying about, and answer the question on a case by case basis. He lies about this thing for this reason. He lies about that thing for that reason. Etc.

And that's not the way the people answering the question seem to be interpreting it. All the answers are blanket answers for a blanket scenario.

So I think the question that was asked, and the answers given, are all based on a literal use of "everything".
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:01 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Kool Aid was Ken Kesey, covered in Tom Wolfe’s book. Jonestown was Flavor Aid.
And Flavor Flav was the clock-wearing rapper from Public Enemy.
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:26 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think the thread makes any sense with a non-literal interpretation of "everything."

Trump lies about some things? Okay, I can see that. But then you have a thread asking, "why does Trump lie about some things?"

Which, okay, valid question. But you'd have to look at the specific things you think he's lying about, and answer the question on a case by case basis. He lies about this thing for this reason. He lies about that thing for that reason. Etc.

And that's not the way the people answering the question seem to be interpreting it. All the answers are blanket answers for a blanket scenario.

So I think the question that was asked, and the answers given, are all based on a literal use of "everything".
I grant youthat the title of the thread is logically impossible. That said, Trump lies about a dozen times daily. The literary license is more than reasonable.
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:34 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think the thread makes any sense with a non-literal interpretation of "everything."

Trump lies about some things? Okay, I can see that. But then you have a thread asking, "why does Trump lie about some things?"

Which, okay, valid question. But you'd have to look at the specific things you think he's lying about, and answer the question on a case by case basis. He lies about this thing for this reason. He lies about that thing for that reason. Etc.

And that's not the way the people answering the question seem to be interpreting it. All the answers are blanket answers for a blanket scenario.

So I think the question that was asked, and the answers given, are all based on a literal use of "everything".
No, the question is "Why does Trump lie about so many things, including some things that are quite surprising?"

And he does. He draws on weather maps with sharpies. He lies about voter fraud in an election he won (but without a plurality of popular votes). He lies about turnout at his inauguration.

He lies about things of substance and trivial crap too. His lying is remarkable.

Everybody lies about some things. Trump is different. It's hard to come up with topics he doesn't lie about. Maybe if you asked him what time it is, he wouldn't lie. (He has lied about his name, replying he was "John Barron".) There really are few examples of topics where I don't believe he has lied. (He's lied about the weather, for God's sake, saying that the rain miraculously stopped right before he spoke at the inauguration.)

So, please don't pretend that this is a stupid question and that Trump is like everyone else. He lies a lot more than any public or private figure I know.
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:40 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
At the core, Trump has based his life on a misunderstanding of the phrase:" fake it till you make it".
He thinks it means that once you are able to fake doing something it's just like actually doing it.
That is a much bigger component of what defines Trump than most people realize; it's so much of how he looks at life that it applies not only to himself but also to other people.

Back when "The Apprentice" started, when the contestants weren't all "celebrities" yet and the idea was to actually hire one in the end, he showed repeatedly that what he valued most in potential new management employees, not just himself, was not productivity but bluster. Talk of success & achievement & prestige is his entire concept of what success & achievement & prestige are.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I haven't liked a single Republican president of my life time. But I understood their appeal. Trump is truly a despicable human being absent of any redeeming character I can see. I have never seen a single person in my entire life more self centered, more rude and more dishonest...

I don't get it.
Putting aside the dishonesty for a moment, the explanation for his popularity with some people is that there are widespread American subcultures that respect what you're calling "self-centered" and "rude" as good things, more accurately (in their assessment) described not in those terms but as something else like "standing up for yourself/himself/ourselves" and "refusing to let them beat us down anymore". They've spent generations getting more & more beaten down not just economically but also culturally, being the butt of America's jokes and the targets of open disdain & false accusations from every corner of the media & politics. This atmosphere of perpetually being attacked led to a culture of a self-defensive defiant "ya, I am who I am, what are you going to do about it" attitude, so they were going to rally behind anybody famous who popped up in politics on their side displaying that same attitude at around this time. And more recently, with the overall economic situation for the whole country continuously getting worse, that cultural phenomenon has started spreading out from its original demographic confines, gradually getting more common (and thus more politically relevant) not only in rural areas but also suburbs & cities, and not only in the midwest & southeast but also toward the western & northeastern coasts.

Trump himself isn't anything special. He's just the guy who was there to fill in the role that cultural developments involving hundreds of millions of people spent years building up ahead of him. (That's why it bugs me when Democrats talk about the challenge of beating Trump. He's so incompetent at everything that it would be like competing with a three-year-old, if it were actually about him. The problem is that he's not who the Democrats are competing against; they're competing against a large chunk of the population whom many Democrats don't have a clue how to deal with because they've spent their lives somehow unaware of them, or badly misleading each other about them.)
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:49 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
You mean Warren Jeffs, right?

Or Robert Jeffress, the sycophant evangelical who is a big Trump supporter.
Yes. I was listing from memory. Oops.
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Old 16th May 2020, 02:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My only theory is that he doesn't lie about everything, that you don't believe he lies about everything, and that the only real question is when do you find it expedient to say he lies about everything even though you don't believe it.
The trouble is that Trump lies so often that anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.

Lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie lie......

Get the connection?

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Old 16th May 2020, 04:02 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My only theory is that he doesn't lie about everything, that you don't believe he lies about everything, and that the only real question is when do you find it expedient to say he lies about everything even though you don't believe it.
Sure. He doesn't lie about EVERYTHING. I doubt the most herculean effort could achieve that. But the sheer volume of his lies, including about things of no great consequence, inspire the kind of incredulity and astonishment that elicit expletive-laden exclamations about his seeming lying about EVERYTHING.

This creature puts into the shade every other politician when it comes to the sheer brazenness and volume of his lying. Whether intended or unconscious, the effect is of an utterly untrustworthy scumbag the entire world regards with a mixture of bemusement and horror.
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:18 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The trouble is that Trump lies so often that anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.

Lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie, lie, lie, lie, truth, lie lie......

Get the connection?
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Sure. He doesn't lie about EVERYTHING. I doubt the most herculean effort could achieve that. But the sheer volume of his lies, including about things of no great consequence, inspire the kind of incredulity and astonishment that elicit expletive-laden exclamations about his seeming lying about EVERYTHING.

This creature puts into the shade every other politician when it comes to the sheer brazenness and volume of his lying. Whether intended or unconscious, the effect is of an utterly untrustworthy scumbag the entire world regards with a mixture of bemusement and horror.
Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Sure. He doesn't lie about EVERYTHING. I doubt the most herculean effort could achieve that. But the sheer volume of his lies, including about things of no great consequence, inspire the kind of incredulity and astonishment that elicit expletive-laden exclamations about his seeming lying about EVERYTHING.

This creature puts into the shade every other politician when it comes to the sheer brazenness and volume of his lying. Whether intended or unconscious, the effect is of an utterly untrustworthy scumbag the entire world regards with a mixture of bemusement and horror.
Except for ~ 43% of Americans who seem to think he's just fantastic. They don't mind that he's a *****-grabbing, cheating, bullying, narcissistic pathological liar who thinks he has absolute authority and can do any damn thing he wants. Then again, some people like Super Hero movies. I don't understand that either.
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:26 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Except for ~ 43% of Americans who seem to think he's just fantastic. They don't mind that he's a *****-grabbing, cheating, bullying, narcissistic pathological liar who thinks he has absolute authority and can do any damn thing he wants. Then again, some people like Super Hero movies. I don't understand that either.
They think he's a fundy Xian like them (he's not); they think he's an ******* racist like them (he is), they think he'll make life better for them (he won't, unless they are already rich), and they think he's sticking it to those they blame for their problems (he's not). And they think he's just like them. (He's VERY MUCH not.)
And they've been watching Fox News, but have decided it's too liberal and are switching to OANN.
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:28 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.
I decide he's lying when the actual facts say he is. You know like "Anyone who wants a test can get one," and he didn't know where the $130K paid to Stormy Daniels came from. What measure do you use?
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:31 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I decide he's lying when the actual facts say he is. You know like "Anyone who wants a test can get one," and he didn't know where the $130K paid to Stormy Daniels came from. What measure do you use?
That the poster in question voted for him.
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:34 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.
When does my *belief* of Trump's lying or not come into it? I evaluate his utterances based on:
- Past utterances of his.
- Things known.
- The fact checking of those in the know.

While everyone has biases, Trumpists do seem to put much greater stock into this belief factor.
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Old 16th May 2020, 04:39 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yep. It's all right there in my post. The actual question is when you decide to believe him vs when you decide to say he's lying.
Well, no. The question is why Trump lies so much more than the average person. It was a "why" question.

Obviously, one decides to believe Trump when there's evidence for what he says. When there's no evidence, he has very little credibility -- none, far as I'm concerned. Indeed, his testimony adds no evidence in my estimation. That Trump said X neither counts for nor against the probability that X is true.

(Some will say it counts as evidence against X, but I don't buy that. Sometimes, things that Trump considers useful or pleasant to say happen to be true, sometimes not. That he considers something good to say has no connection to whether it's true or not. It's just white noise.)

Probably, I overstate the case a bit. If he says something that is a plain descriptive claim with no partisan advantage that I can see, then I probably attach some small probability to the claim.
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Old 16th May 2020, 05:13 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
....

He's never been called out on his exaggerations or lies or whatever the correct terms might be; and that's carried over into his presidency.
He gets called out all the time now, he simply hand waves it off. That probably happened to some extent in his past. I think his Baron persona was exposed and he laughed it off or something. His wives probably called him on lies all the time. He divorced 2 of them.

Bottom line, he's been called out. His mind erases such insults to the greatest person to ever live.
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Old 16th May 2020, 05:31 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Kool Aid was Ken Kesey, covered in Tom Wolfe’s book. Jonestown was Flavor Aid.
I did not know that it wasn't Kool Aid at Jonestown. Kool-aid Acid Test I am very familiar with.

The Atlantic 2012: Stop Saying 'Drink the Kool-Aid' - Beyond being grossly overused and conjuring a horrendous massacre, it's not even technically accurate.

Most of the article revisits what happened at Jonestown. Electric Kool-aid is only mentioned at the end.
Quote:
After the airstrip murders outside Jonestown, Jim Jones ordered Temple members to create a fruity mix containing a cocktail of chemicals including cyanide, diazepam (aka Valium -- an anti-anxiety medication), promethazine (aka Phenergan -- a sedative), chloral hydrate (a sedative/hypnotic sometimes called "knockout drops"), and most interestingly... Flavor Aid -- a grape-flavored beverage similar to Kool-Aid. We'll get back to that last one in a moment....

... Wolfe's book includes this passage, describing a man who had a bad trip (emphasis added):

"... There was one man who became completely withdrawn ... I want to say catatonic, because we tried to bring him out of it, and could not make contact at all ... he was sort of a friend of mine, and I had some responsibility for getting him back to town ... he had a previous history of mental hospitals, lack of contact with reality, etc., and when I realized what had happened, I begged him not to drink the Kool-Aid, but he did ... and it was very bad."

Because of The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, many Americans were familiar with the idea of being urged to drink Kool-Aid containing, um, unusual chemicals -- even if they hadn't themselves participated in an Acid Test. This familiarity perversely boosted the profile of Kool-Aid, especially in this particular (adulterated) circumstance.
I'm not surprised to find the reference to drinking the Kool Aid preceded Jonestown by several years. I vaguely recall drinking the Kool-aid was about LSD. I think the Jonestown explanation replaced that in my brain.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old 16th May 2020, 05:33 PM   #80
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Unfortunately he does NOT just handwave it off. He declares the news media to be "the enemy of the people" and has just today declared the efforts of companies like Google, Facebook, and Twitter to limit content to event some sense of reality to be "illegal".
Oh, and in case you don't believe "Bad Legal Takes", here's the original. Note that he's retweeting extremist idiot Michelle Malkin who, despite Trump's promises to have vaccines by the end of the year has declared she will never take the Gates vaccine. Good. She can just die then.
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