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Old 5th September 2020, 11:17 PM   #1
dejudge
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Paul - a late invention.

In the NT there are 13 Epistles under the name of Paul and a character with the same name [Paul] is also found in Acts of the Apostles.

It is said that NT Pauline Epistles were written before the NT Gospels because they contain very little about the Jesus character as mentioned in the Gospels but such an observation is of little chronological value since virtually all Epistles in and out the NT also mention almost nothing or very little about Jesus of Nazareth.


Examine the NT Epistles attributed to James, Peter, John and Jude.

There is virtually nothing or very little about the Jesus character in those Epistles.

For example, the character called Jesus or Christ is only mentioned twice in the James' Epistle with no mention of his apostles, birth, baptism, crucifixion and resurrection.

By contrast the Epistle to the Galatians mentions Jesus or Christ about 37 times and the writer claimed that he met apostles of Jesus Christ who was God’s son made of a woman, that he was crucified and raised from the dead. See Galatians 1.1, 1.19, 3.1, 3.27,4.4.

It is easily seen that the so-called Pauline Epistles contain far more claims about Jesus Christ and the apostles than in all non-Pauline Epistles combined.

The so-called Pauline writers appear to be using stories of Jesus that that were already known to them and falsely claiming to have gotten them from a resurrected being in the third heaven.

In the Epistles the supposed Pauline writer claimed he was a persecutor of the faith.

As a persecutor of believers the writer must know and identify what the Jesus cult believe and taught in the churches about their God Jesus.

In fact, in the Epistle to the Galatians, the writer stated that he persecuted those who were preaching the very same faith.

Galatians 1:23
Quote:
But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
It is virtually impossible that a dead man, buried for around three days, or a non-human entity, could have given the Pauline writers any information about actual past events.
The Pauline writers got no information from the supposed dead and resurrected Jesus.
They simply used information from believers and/or the Gospels or their sources.
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Old 14th September 2020, 11:22 PM   #2
dejudge
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The claim that NT Pauline Epistles were composed before the NT Gospels because they hardly contain accounts of Jesus is flawed.

All Epistles in and out the NT contain very little about the activities of the supposed Jesus.

Examine all the Epistles attributed to Ignatius written no earlier than the 2nd century and after the Gospels should have already been written.

The Ignatius Epistles to the Ephesians, the Magnesians, the Trallians, the Romans, the Philadelphians, the Smyrnĉans and the Epistle to Polycarp do not mention the miracles of Jesus or the empty tomb.

Examine any Epistle attributed to Clement supposedly written when he was bishop of Rome or no earlier than c 96 CE. Again, it will be found that there is very little about the life of NT Jesus and nothing about an empty tomb.

Epistles in and out the NT are not biographical writings of their Jesus but almost always dealing with doctrinal issues.

The chronology of the composition of the NT Epistles can be easily determined by comparing their contents with other Epistles and those of the Gospels.

For example, it can be deduced quite easily that Ignatius and Clement Epistles were composed after so-called Pauline Epistles.

1. In the Ignatius Epistle to the Ephesians a character called Paul is mentioned who wrote Epistles.

2. In the 1st Clement Epistle it is implied that a character Paul wrote an Epistle to the Corinthians.

Those simple clues, without going into more details, alert the reader that the Ignatius and Clementine Epistles were most likely composed after NT Pauline Epistles.

Now, it is easily seen that the so-called Pauline Epistles were composed after NT Gospels or their sources.

One of the primary clues that so-called Pauline Epistles were composed after at least the Synoptics or their sources relates to the post-resurrection story.

The earliest NT Jesus story is found in the short gMark in which the last chapter [ch16] only contains 8 verses.

In the short gMark the resurrected Jesus did not appear to the disciples and neither did the resurrected being commission them to preach the Gospel.

All NT writings which claim the resurrected Jesus appeared to the disciples and commissioned them to preach the Gospels are late additions.

The late additions are in gMatthew, gLuke, gJohn, Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Corinthians.

Examine the Sinaiticus short gMark 16.

https://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/m...8&zoomSlider=0



Sinaiticus gMark 16.5-8
Quote:
And they entered the sepulcher and saw a young man, sitting at the right side, clothed in a white robe; and they were amazed.

6 But he says to them: Be not amazed. You seek Jesus the Nazarene who was crucified; he has risen, he is not here: see the place where they laid him.

7 But go, tell his disciples, especially Peter, that he goes before you into Galilee: there you shall see him, as he said to you.

8 And going out they fled from the sepulcher; for trembling and astonishment had seized them; and they said nothing to any one, for they were afraid.
There is nothing at all about the resurrected Jesus appearing to the disciples and telling them to preach the Gospels to anyone.

Now, look at 1 Corinthians 15.

https://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/m...r&zoomSlider=0

Sinaiticus 1 Corinthians 15:3-8
Quote:
For I delivered to you, among the first things, that which I also received; that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures;

4 and that he was buried; and that he rose from the dead on the third day, according to the Scriptures;

5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

6 After that he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain till now, but some have also fallen asleep.

7 After that he appeared to James, after that to all the apostles.

8 But, last of all, as to the one born out of due time, he appeared to me also....
The post-resurrection appearances of the resurrected Jesus in the 1st Epistle to the Corinthians is late addition-- later than the short gMark.

All NT Epistles to the Corinthians were composed after the short gMark.

In Christian writings it is claimed Bible Paul died under Nero or no later than c 68 CE.

Bible Paul could not have written the Epistles to the Corinthians if he was dead no later than c 68 CE and the Corinthian Epistles were written after the short gMark which was composed no earlier than c 70 CE.

Last edited by dejudge; 14th September 2020 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 15th September 2020, 10:31 PM   #3
dejudge
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Paul and the so-called Pauline Epistles were late additions and were unknown to or had no influence on supposed early Christian writers.

Examine Galatians 4.4.

Sinaiticus Galatians 4.4
Quote:
but when the fulness of the time had come. God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under law..
Christian writers in and out the NT claimed their Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost and a Virgin not a mere woman.

It was the author of gMatthew or his source who had influence on early Christian writers and for almost two thousand years.

Examine Sinaiticus Matthew 1.23
Quote:
Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which is, when translated, God with us.
The author of gLuke who is claimed to be a close companion of the supposed Paul did state his Jesus was born of a Holy Ghost and a Virgin.

Sinaiticus Luke 1. 26
Quote:
And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 to a virgin betrothed to a man, whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the name of the virgin was Mary.
Outside the NT we see that the story that Jesus was born of a Virgin is found in virtually all apologetic writings which mention his birth.

Look at an Ignatian Epistle to the Symrnaeans
Quote:
..... He was truly born of a virgin...
Aristides' Apology
Quote:
.... it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh..
Justin's Apology
Quote:
.... we found Jesus our Christ foretold as coming, born of a virgin,...
Terullian's On the Flesh of Christ 2.
Quote:
The conception in the virgin's womb is also set plainly before us...
Origen Against Celsus 7
Quote:
For who is ignorant of the statement that Jesus was born of a virgin...
Eusebius' Church History 3.27.3
Quote:
..... the Lord was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit...
It is clear that from gMatthew down to at least the 4th century Christian writers claimed their Jesus was born of a Virgin.

The so-called Paul and the Epistles had no early influence on the Jesus cult.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:46 AM   #4
abaddon
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So where is it that you think the religious carp originated?

It cannot be "god", "Jebus", "Paul", "apostles", because you claim none of those existed, so what is the origin?
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Old 17th September 2020, 12:05 AM   #5
dejudge
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The NT and Christian writings show that Paul and the so-called Pauline Epistles are late and had no influence oN early apologetic writings.

Look at the the supposed Pauline version of the second coming.

Sinaiticus 1 Thessalonians 4.16
Quote:
because the Lord himself, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, shall descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall arise first;

17 then we, the living, who remain over, shall, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we always be with the Lord.
The character Paul was supposed to have been an evangelist who traveled around the Roman Empire multiple times telling people that on the second coming of Christ that the dead and living in Christ would ascend to meet their Jesus in the air.

But again, we see the Pauline version of the second coming had no influence whatsoever on the author of Revelation [the Apocalypse].

The author of Revelation, also claiming to have visions from the Lord Jesus, stated that in the second coming there would be a new Jerusalem on earth and that believers would reign with their Savior for a thousand years.

Sinaiticus Revelation 20. 6
Quote:
Blessed and holy is he that has part in this first resurrection; over such the second death has no power; but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Sinaiticus Revelation 21:1-3
Quote:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away; and the sea was no more.

2 And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven, from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men and he will dwell with them; and they shall he his people, and God himself will be with them, their God.
Justin Martyr in his First Apology, writing c 138-161 CE, makes no mention of the Pauline version of the second coming but refers to Revelation for his teaching.

Dialogue with Trypho 80
Quote:
But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.
Dialogue with Trypho 81
Quote:
And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem...
The character Paul and the Epistles were unknown in the time of Justin Martyr c 138-161 CE.

Last edited by dejudge; 17th September 2020 at 12:07 AM.
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Old Today, 10:55 PM   #6
dejudge
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The more one examines the NT and Christian writings of antiquity it becomes quite pellucid that the character called Paul and the Epistles were late inventions and had no influence at all on the early Jesus cult.

It is claimed in Christian writings that a character called Luke, a supposed close companion of NT Paul, wrote a Gospel which is in the NT Canon however Scholars argue that gLuke was falsely attributed to Luke.

Bart Ehrman in his "Argument for the Historical Jesus of Nazareth" argued that the NT Gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Examine Against Heresies attributed to Irenaeus.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...eus-book3.html

Against Heresies 3.1
Quote:
.....Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him.
Examine Church History attributed to Eusebius.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250103.htm

Church History 3.4.8
Quote:
. And they say that Paul meant to refer to Luke's Gospel wherever, as if speaking of some gospel of his own, he used the words, according to my Gospel.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Christian writers invented a bogus character called Luke and then falsely claimed he wrote one of the Canonised Gospel.

Then NT Paul is falsely claimed to be a companion of the bogus Gospel writer called Luke.

It is extremely important to understand that Church writings admit the character called Paul was alive after gLuke was written as can be seen in Church History 3.4.8.

Now, when was gLuke written??

It is claimed that gLuke was probably written c 80-130 CE.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/


The very words of Christian writers have convicted them of their deception.

The character called Paul must have lived sometime between c 80-130 CE since he referred to gLuke as his gospel.

Examine Tertullian's Against Marcion

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/03124.htm

Against Marcion 5.5
Quote:
For even Luke's form of the Gospel men usually ascribe to Paul.
The NT author called Paul must have been alive after gLuke was written.

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